Education in America Page 3

Started by Livewire September 23rd, 2010 1:22 PM
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What do you think?

Dawn

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In the Past 15-20 Years or so, The education system in the United States has faltered in terms of competition with other nations. Test scores have fallen, The Graduation rate has barely changed, and the school system itself is outdated and archaic. America has gone from being an intellectual leader, to quite frankly, under-achieving.
Allow me to highlight a specific word. competition. I certainly don't compete with other nations when I'm in school. Heck, I don't even compete with other kids in my own nation in my school. That's not my mindset, and I honestly think that little to no students have that mindset, so it amuses me that as adults, we're focused on competitive education. The actual people we're educating, at best, just want a good education so that they can have a happy life! Am I wrong? They don't care if they're better than someone else, generally.

So how much of a competition is it, if the students generally don't have a competitive mindset?

Something to think about.
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Livewire

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Allow me to highlight a specific word. competition. I certainly don't compete with other nations when I'm in school. Heck, I don't even compete with other kids in my own nation in my school. That's not my mindset, and I honestly think that little to no students have that mindset, so it amuses me that as adults, we're focused on competitive education. The actual people we're educating, at best, just want a good education so that they can have a happy life! Am I wrong? They don't care if they're better than someone else, generally.

So how much of a competition is it, if the students generally don't have a competitive mindset?

Something to think about.
That's because we have an old, out-dated school system. Our public schools were originally designed to churn out blue collar workers to add to the job force. In this day and age, we need to be thinking competitively because of the globalization of the world. It's why Mandarin Chinese classes are popping up in schools all across the country. Every other major industrial nation has this all figured out already. Believe it or not, we are in a competition for jobs and resources, even if we don't even realize it, and our students need to be prepared for an increasingly global work environment.
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Sadly I see lots of kids at school who only talk and don't seem to have any goals they don't hurry to class when the bell rings they just stay there as if they didn't hear the bell...
Also I noticed that some girls don't respect the right to vote, or the woman right movement of the past, same goes for other people, come on people your ancestors fought to get you to school and have rights but you just don't seem to care...
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Sadly I see lots of kids at school who only talk and don't seem to have any goals they don't hurry to class when the bell rings they just stay there as if they didn't hear the bell...
lol that sounds a bit robotic. i see about the same thing, only with my friends there are future goals but they don't go deeper than being goals created for them by their parents. they have no particular interests, they're not passionate about anything, they don't comprehend their studies they just memorize what they have to know. for that i partially blame parental guidance and mostly blame the way our educators teach. they fail to address the personal value of studies and feed us these bended and exaggerated ideas of the future and how to reach their idea of success. kids listen to these teachers and either give up because they dont see success happening for them and gone through years of school without their interests being properly nurtured, or they blindly do what they have to do to get by because they feel obligated to.

WriteThemWrong

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education in america definitely has it's problems but i don't think we should model our education system after the countries that are out competing us, even though it sounds like the obvious route. china and korea for example has school for almost the entire year, they get maybe a month off every year, and they're in class or school for much longer every day, i believe 10 hours, according to a newspaper article i read a few weeks back when this issue was really in debate.

i think high school is the place of most trouble. the majority of the learning there is for a test at the end of the year. that's not the way to learn. doing the same thing, reading the same book, solving the same problems, taking the same tests as the class last semester, year, and decade doesn't induce learning. this carries on into the first few years of college. then the hard intensive and active years come and students don't know what to do. the teachers can't do everything, the people in DC, in the offices and departments need to make serious changes.
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Livewire

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the teachers can't do everything, the people in DC, in the offices and departments need to make serious changes.
Exactly. In order to fix the system, It will require action from everyone, Teacher, Superintendent, Principal, Washington, etc.

FreakyLocz14

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We need school vouchers. This would put public school in direct competition with private schools, and competition increases the quality of the services offered. Look at higher education, a student can use their financial aid at a public or a private school, so public schools of higher education need to attract students by increasing the quality of educational oppurtunitiesthy offer.

WriteThemWrong

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We need school vouchers. This would put public school in direct competition with private schools, and competition increases the quality of the services offered. Look at higher education, a student can use their financial aid at a public or a private school, so public schools of higher education need to attract students by increasing the quality of educational oppurtunitiesthy offer.
so what would happen to the schools that can't compete?
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FreakyLocz14

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so what would happen to the schools that can't compete?
They would eventually shut down. I'm sorry, but if you want to improve education, that means that bad schools have to go. If more public schools would follow the model of charter schools, they would do very well.

Livewire

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They would eventually shut down. I'm sorry, but if you want to improve education, that means that bad schools have to go. If more public schools would follow the model of charter schools, they would do very well.
Shutting down a school should be the last possible option, as that won't help the situation. The 'bad' students, their families and the staff would just disperse to other school districts, thus propagating the problem further.

Dawn

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This comic is on one of the doors in my school. My teachers seem to like it when I argue with them about stuff. I don't like it nearly as much as they do. Meh.





That's because we have an old, out-dated school system. Our public schools were originally designed to churn out blue collar workers to add to the job force. In this day and age, we need to be thinking competitively because of the globalization of the world. It's why Mandarin Chinese classes are popping up in schools all across the country. Every other major industrial nation has this all figured out already. Believe it or not, we are in a competition for jobs and resources, even if we don't even realize it, and our students need to be prepared for an increasingly global work environment.
Here's a question to think about. If all these students don't want to compete what right do we have to try and force them? Furthermore, why should we revolutionize our school system to become competitive? What will happen is we will victimize a lot of people who are not the best. What we don't know will happen, is that people will suddenly get smarter.

Are we the result of an outdated educational system? Are we failures? Did that "outdated" school system fail to produce intelligent people?

...Or perhaps is this entire issue just a bunch of drama?
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WriteThemWrong

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Here's a question to think about. If all these students don't want to compete what right do we have to try and force them? Furthermore, why should we revolutionize our school system to become competitive? What will happen is we will victimize a lot of people who are not the best. What we don't know will happen, is that people will suddenly get smarter.

Are we the result of an outdated educational system? Are we failures? Did that "outdated" school system fail to produce intelligent people?

...Or perhaps is this entire issue just a bunch of drama?
Like it or not, if students don't compete they won't have a job. If they don't have a good education they don't stand a chance against someone else from another country that has a more intensive program. so far american engineers are losing to india and korea because those countries are producing more engineers as well as ones with more experience.

i agree that there is too much competition in school with valedictorians and such but some of it is unavoidable. nobody wants to compete, i'm sure they would rather have things handed to them, but that's not going to happen when it comes to a career. there might be only 10 positions open but if 2000 people apply and they don't have the goods, they're going to lose.
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Kirozane

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This comic is on one of the doors in my school. My teachers seem to like it when I argue with them about stuff. I don't like it nearly as much as they do. Meh.





Here's a question to think about. If all these students don't want to compete what right do we have to try and force them? Furthermore, why should we revolutionize our school system to become competitive? What will happen is we will victimize a lot of people who are not the best. What we don't know will happen, is that people will suddenly get smarter.

Are we the result of an outdated educational system? Are we failures? Did that "outdated" school system fail to produce intelligent people?

...Or perhaps is this entire issue just a bunch of drama?
They don't want to compete because as that comic clearly states, American have become more sheeplike. More willing to follow the shepherd of the hour and gt the information down that actually take a look at the problem.

But that's a generalization. I will admit to that. Though some schools are starting to improve. (Go ahead and call me biased for this but I still feel it can adequately be brought to attention.)

My high school, Timberline High School in Boise, Idaho, has only been around since 1992. But in that time, it has risen to the top 5% of schools in the country. I have compared my yearbook to the graduation video and as far as I saw only two people in our senior class failed to graduate. And that's because they chose not to listen. Even when the teachers took the time to try and help them. The teachers there are really involved. Really passionate. They actually gave a hoot if the students were accurately absorbing the info. And, I can say this from what I saw in the halls and in my clases (where I'll admit I WASN'T as involved as I should have been) there was a sense of competition. People, even those who WEREN'T in some extracurricular activity, actually tried to be the best, even when there wasn't a carrot on the end of the stick we saw. Instead of wheeling out the info and saying "here it is, do what you will with it." It was continuously hammered that life outside of this wouldn't be this easy. hammer to the point where people GOT IT. People actually USED the resources available to get to a good place. We were an exception to the generalization the country's education system has become. It was a stroke of luck that the school was public.

Say what you will, but I realize full well that I lucked out. Especially since the main feeder schools there were nothing like that.

So really, after this I'm going to sit back and wish other school would get the picture and be more like mine. It won't happen in my time, I'm sure. But maybe one day.

(Again with the pointless ranting. ._. My apologies)

Livewire

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Posted August 2nd, 2019
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This comic is on one of the doors in my school. My teachers seem to like it when I argue with them about stuff. I don't like it nearly as much as they do. Meh.





Here's a question to think about. If all these students don't want to compete what right do we have to try and force them? Furthermore, why should we revolutionize our school system to become competitive? What will happen is we will victimize a lot of people who are not the best. What we don't know will happen, is that people will suddenly get smarter.

Are we the result of an outdated educational system? Are we failures? Did that "outdated" school system fail to produce intelligent people?

...Or perhaps is this entire issue just a bunch of drama?
You're missing my point. The outdated system wasn't outdated back then, thus it produced no failures. Our school systems are outdated, for the 21st century. And a school does not "produce" intelligence.

Well If all the jobs are getting outsourced, then they could kiss dozens of job opportunities out the window. If you want to work for a big corporation nowadays, you need to know foreign languages, notably Mandarin Chinese. And most schools don't offer it, thus putting our students at a disadvantage. China makes its students take several years of mandatory English, as do many other countries.

Dawn

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You're missing my point. The outdated system wasn't outdated back then, thus it produced no failures. Our school systems are outdated, for the 21st century. And a school does not "produce" intelligence.
It wasn't outdated back when now?

Are you implying that schools have suddenly become out of date and that we somehow know that it's going to produce bad results?

They don't want to compete because as that comic clearly states, American have become more sheeplike. More willing to follow the shepherd of the hour and gt the information down that actually take a look at the problem.

But that's a generalization. I will admit to that. Though some schools are starting to improve. (Go ahead and call me biased for this but I still feel it can adequately be brought to attention.)

My high school, Timberline High School in Boise, Idaho, has only been around since 1992. But in that time, it has risen to the top 5% of schools in the country. I have compared my yearbook to the graduation video and as far as I saw only two people in our senior class failed to graduate. And that's because they chose not to listen. Even when the teachers took the time to try and help them. The teachers there are really involved. Really passionate. They actually gave a hoot if the students were accurately absorbing the info. And, I can say this from what I saw in the halls and in my clases (where I'll admit I WASN'T as involved as I should have been) there was a sense of competition. People, even those who WEREN'T in some extracurricular activity, actually tried to be the best, even when there wasn't a carrot on the end of the stick we saw. Instead of wheeling out the info and saying "here it is, do what you will with it." It was continuously hammered that life outside of this wouldn't be this easy. hammer to the point where people GOT IT. People actually USED the resources available to get to a good place. We were an exception to the generalization the country's education system has become. It was a stroke of luck that the school was public.

Say what you will, but I realize full well that I lucked out. Especially since the main feeder schools there were nothing like that.

So really, after this I'm going to sit back and wish other school would get the picture and be more like mine. It won't happen in my time, I'm sure. But maybe one day.

(Again with the pointless ranting. ._. My apologies)
Really. Did you ever consider that because you treated it competitively that you could have a bias when describing it's atmosphere?

Here, take a look at a page about this school.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-B_Woodlawn

I assure you, this school is not competitive. It is however successful.
So is the competitiveness of other countries the cause of their supposed success?
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Livewire

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It wasn't outdated back when now?

Are you implying that schools have suddenly become out of date and that we somehow know that it's going to produce bad results?

Back in the 40's- late 70's before the advent of the technological age. Look at our college and high school graduation rates, test scores, job placement figures. They have fallen steadily since the 80s-90's

Yep.

Notice that Woodlawn follows a very liberal, progressive education philosophy, that's why.

FreakyLocz14

Conservative Patriot

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Seen August 29th, 2018
Posted August 28th, 2018
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14 Years

Shutting down a school should be the last possible option, as that won't help the situation. The 'bad' students, their families and the staff would just disperse to other school districts, thus propagating the problem further.
There will always be bad students who don't care about their education. That is a natural result of compulsory education. However, we need to stop giving teachers tenure. No one fires a teacher for doing a good job, so why protect those who do a bad job? Charter schools do well because everybody is held accountable, even the students and their parents. Students and/or parents who consitently fail to meet reasobale expectations are dismissed from the charter school and are allowed back into the public school in their area, since students residing in that school's service area automatically have a right to attend that school.

Competititon does have consequences on schools who consitently perform poorly. We need to force these shools to compete, but we can also have alternative schools to service at-risk students. If my theory works, than the public school would become almost as rigorous as the private prep schools. Giving students choice would be a good idea. Students who wish to attend the local public school may do so, but students should also be allowed to attend other schools within their district if that school offers a program or course that the student would not be able to particpate in at the local school, or if the student genuinely feels that they would recieve a better education there. We should also allow for interdistrict transfers of students show a good cause as to why they would benefit from such a transfer. Students who consitently fail to meet reasonable academic expectations for their grade level should be placed in alternative schools as a means of intervention. Many of these schools have less rigorous graduation requirements, focusing on core state requirements instead of extra academic rigor. May also allow for more work experience programs and have staff that are trained to work with students who have special needs or who are behind in their studies and offer smaller class sizes for more individualized instruction.


Allow me to highlight a specific word. competition. I certainly don't compete with other nations when I'm in school. Heck, I don't even compete with other kids in my own nation in my school. That's not my mindset, and I honestly think that little to no students have that mindset, so it amuses me that as adults, we're focused on competitive education. The actual people we're educating, at best, just want a good education so that they can have a happy life! Am I wrong? They don't care if they're better than someone else, generally.

So how much of a competition is it, if the students generally don't have a competitive mindset?

Something to think about.
Students do, and should, think about competition. Students who wish to attend prestigious colleges after high school are comepeting with a pool of applicants to those colleges, and many do come from overseas. So, yes, being competitive is already a factor in our education system.

Livewire

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There will always be bad students who don't care about their education. That is a natural result of compulsory education. However, we need to stop giving teachers tenure. No one fires a teacher for doing a good job, so why protect those who do a bad job? Charter schools do well because everybody is held accountable, even the students and their parents. Students and/or parents who consitently fail to meet reasobale expectations are dismissed from the charter school and are allowed back into the public school in their area, since students residing in that school's service area automatically have a right to attend that school.
I like the idea of charter schooling, but only if it is widely available. Every child deserves a chance.

But that still doesn't help. The students/parents that don't meet expectations get dropped from the charter school, then they take thier talents to the public ones. :/ So then the public school would suck, putting those kids there at a disadvantage.

FreakyLocz14

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I like the idea of charter schooling, but only if it is widely available. Every child deserves a chance.

But that still doesn't help. The students/parents that don't meet expectations get dropped from the charter school, then they take thier talents to the public ones. :/ So then the public school would suck, putting those kids there at a disadvantage.
Students with talents wouldn't be dropped. The students who would be dropped woul be ones who are severly truant or just show no interest in their education. That's how most charter schools today work. They don't demand that you get straight A's, but they do expect you to put in a reasonable effort toward your academics. My little sister goes to a charter school right now, and she's gotten a few D's on her report card, but she still does generally well for her grade level.

If students are skipping school and not caring about school when they do go, than they clearly need intervention, which is why placement in an alternative school is necessary.

Livewire

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Students with talents wouldn't be dropped. The students who would be dropped woul be ones who are severly truant or just show no interest in their education. That's how most charter schools today work. They don't demand that you get straight A's, but they do expect you to put in a reasonable effort toward your academics. My little sister goes to a charter school right now, and she's gotten a few D's on her report card, but she still does generally well for her grade level.

If students are skipping school and not caring about school when they do go, than they clearly need intervention, which is why placement in an alternative school is necessary.
No no, I meant the students that do get dropped, they'd just be taking their bad with them, thus making the next school they go to bad as well.

I must say I like the Charter Idea, though. I went to a Private School myself, and it's been obvious since then that the quality of private schooling dwarfs what most public schools can offer. My public school I attended afterwards was fortunately one of the best in the state of OH, but a neighboring district 10 miles away is one of the worst. :/

FreakyLocz14

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No no, I meant the students that do get dropped, they'd just be taking their bad with them, thus making the next school they go to bad as well.

I must say I like the Charter Idea, though. I went to a Private School myself, and it's been obvious since then that the quality of private schooling dwarfs what most public schools can offer. My public school I attended afterwards was fortunately one of the best in the state of OH, but a neighboring district 10 miles away is one of the worst. :/
If the students have bad habits, than they need intervention. That's what I'm trying to get at.

Livewire

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If the students have bad habits, than they need intervention. That's what I'm trying to get at.
But where would they ascertain said intervention? The only way to change their habits would be through some third party, because the parents aren't always reliable in this case. If it were through a school, it would require some $ to do. But more often than not, the schools are tapped out on extra cash, so...

FreakyLocz14

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But where would they ascertain said intervention? The only way to change their habits would be through some third party, because the parents aren't always reliable in this case. If it were through a school, it would require some $ to do. But more often than not, the schools are tapped out on extra cash, so...
If more schools followed the charter school system, they would be cheaper to run. Also, parents who knowingly allow their child to be truant from school are guilty of a crime, and as a punishment or as a diversion from prosecution, parents can be compelled to contribute to the cost of an intervention program, and you could take any funds the family would be entitled to under a school voucher program for that student and apply that towards an intervention program.

Livewire

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If more schools followed the charter school system, they would be cheaper to run.
Granted they'd be more cost efficient, but they'd also have to rely on the community at times. It would be difficult if the Levies don't pass. Reason I say that is because failed levies have really stung schools down here in OH/Midwest as of late.

WriteThemWrong

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charter schools are pretty expensive, i don't know how they would be able to beat the free pricetag of public schools.
They confiscated my monkeys.
Dammit sky!
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I think my head is dying
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