No charges for puppy-thrower: police

Started by Zet October 5th, 2010 4:21 PM
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Zet

Age 33
Male
Brisbane, Australia
Seen September 29th, 2021
Posted May 16th, 2020
7,687 posts
15.7 Years
Shocking to say at the least, but this girl really deserves some punishment for what she did. :/

A Bosnian girl who gained worldwide notoriety after footage of her gleefully throwing puppies into a river was posted online has escaped punishment.

Police in her home town of Bugojno have said the girl, who is believed to be 12 years old, is too young to be prosecuted.

They also claim the puppies were saved by an elderly woman who fished them out of the river, and was later photographed with them.

The 44-second video shows a blonde girl in a red jumper casually taking the squealing black-and-white puppies out of a white bucket and tossing them into the fast-moving river one by one.

Animal rights group PETA has condemned the decision not to prosecute the girl.

"This is outrageous," the group was quoted as saying in German newspaper Bild.
source: http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/8099941/no-charges-for-puppy-thrower-police

Charliezard

A wild shroomish appeared!

Age 31
Male
Australia
Seen December 1st, 2014
Posted December 9th, 2011
1,274 posts
16 Years
Depends on her parents, if she's been raised thinking that's ok or even funny then her parents aren't the best ._. Dogs > People, especially bad people like that little girl. I can't hate on her now, cuz she's 12... But wait till she's older P:

twocows

The not-so-black cat of ill omen

Age 32
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Michigan
Seen February 19th, 2023
Posted April 30th, 2021
4,307 posts
14.2 Years
I think she should receive some community service as punishment, but...

Depends on her parents, if she's been raised thinking that's ok or even funny then her parents aren't the best ._. Dogs > People, especially bad people like that little girl. I can't hate on her now, cuz she's 12... But wait till she's older P:
I think this is absurd. There's no way I'd ever value the life of an animal over that of a human.


Also, it makes my day every time PETA loses one of their "battles." Though that's not to say I'm happy about what happened, either (though I do think there are far more important things to worry about).
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Melody

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It is not the job of the government to discipline children and raise them. It is the parents' job to do so, and if the parents fail to do so, that's their business. The parents can take the rap for not teaching their child properly. Punishing the child is largely pointless if local law holds that the child is too young to be prosecuted due to ignorance.

I don't care how horrific the crime, a child cannot be blamed if it is not taught right from wrong, and sometimes mistakes like this are a part of a child's growing up, and learning right from wrong. Perhaps there's an issue which caused the child to act out? You really can't know unless you investigate it, and a small country like that does not have the resources to properly investigate things like that...they have bigger concerns than a child who is acting out.

Honestly, I think people who are demonizing this child ought to be ashamed of themselves...there are much larger issues in the world that need attention; much much more attention than this is getting.

Guillermo

i own a rabbit heh

Age 28
Australia
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Posted May 18th, 2014
6,794 posts
14.9 Years
At twelve, a child should be able to differentiate the utterly stupid decisions from the good ones. Maybe she was influenced by her parents, or maybe she's just malicious towards animals for her own personal reasons. Regardless, I think she should at least get some form of community service. This is sickening.
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Melody

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Age has nothing to do with the ability to differentiate right from wrong. The ability to differentiate right from wrong is a LEARNED SKILL, and does not magically manifest itself at a certain age.

Oh sure, the child can learn a bit by observing its elders, but that does not always guarantee proper instilling of the values of right and wrong, especially if the parents are not drawing limits for the child to learn from, so it can one day learn to draw limits for itself as an adult, even when the morality of something is unclear.

Alice

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Posted April 29th, 2015
3,077 posts
14.2 Years
It is not the job of the government to discipline children and raise them. It is the parents' job to do so, and if the parents fail to do so, that's their business. The parents can take the rap for not teaching their child properly. Punishing the child is largely pointless if local law holds that the child is too young to be prosecuted due to ignorance.

I don't care how horrific the crime, a child cannot be blamed if it is not taught right from wrong, and sometimes mistakes like this are a part of a child's growing up, and learning right from wrong. Perhaps there's an issue which caused the child to act out? You really can't know unless you investigate it, and a small country like that does not have the resources to properly investigate things like that...they have bigger concerns than a child who is acting out.

Honestly, I think people who are demonizing this child ought to be ashamed of themselves...there are much larger issues in the world that need attention; much much more attention than this is getting.
I wouldn't call it demonizing, people just don't like it when puppies die. It's a fact of life.

Not punishing her simply shows her that it's okay to do that, and makes it more likely to happen again. Maybe it will even be a human being next time. This is why I think it's best for her punishment to involve taking care of animals. At first she will loathe it, and will definitely regret what she has done, but will also (hopefully) grow to love animals after being in the presence of so many animals, and anime lovers.

Guillermo

i own a rabbit heh

Age 28
Australia
Seen April 11th, 2015
Posted May 18th, 2014
6,794 posts
14.9 Years
Age has nothing to do with the ability to differentiate right from wrong. The ability to differentiate right from wrong is a LEARNED SKILL, and does not magically manifest itself at a certain age.

Oh sure, the child can learn a bit by observing its elders, but that does not always guarantee proper instilling of the values of right and wrong, especially if the parents are not drawing limits for the child to learn from, so it can one day learn to draw limits for itself as an adult, even when the morality of something is unclear.
No, it's called education from a school. It's socialising with people, with your parents, and your siblings if you have any. You're usually around year 6 when you're 12, that's not really that young. If you didn't know throwing a puppy in the water was a stupid thing to do at the age of 12, I feel kinda sorry for you, lol.
credittoDukey
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Guillermo

i own a rabbit heh

Age 28
Australia
Seen April 11th, 2015
Posted May 18th, 2014
6,794 posts
14.9 Years
The point I'm trying to make is that it's not an age based thing. In a developed country, yes by age 12 they probably should know...but you're not taking into account the fact that Bosnia is NOT a fully developed country.
So, you're saying that a country defines how much common sense someone should have?
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Melody

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By country, I mean the conditions within that country. You must take that sort of thing into account, as well as the laws of the country, the city, and other subdivisions of that country. If they hold the child innocent due to ignorance, then surely they've considered that the conditions of the country or region demand such.

Common sense varies from culture to culture. What is common sense to a person in a civilized society may not be for someone in a less civilized society elsewhere. The ages at which certain things are known by will vary wildly with cultural differences and learning abilities of the individual child.

Guillermo

i own a rabbit heh

Age 28
Australia
Seen April 11th, 2015
Posted May 18th, 2014
6,794 posts
14.9 Years
By country, I mean the conditions within that country. You must take that sort of thing into account, as well as the laws of the country, the city, and other subdivisions of that country. If they hold the child innocent due to ignorance, then surely they've considered that the conditions of the country or region demand such.

Common sense varies from culture to culture. What is common sense to a person in a civilized society may not be for someone in a less civilized society elsewhere. The ages at which certain things are known by will vary wildly with cultural differences and learning abilities of the individual child.
Firstly, by conditions, do you mean the environment and the society? Bosnia is really not that bad off when you look at other countries around the world, especially considering it had to recover from the Bosnian war. A child isn't going to think it's okay to throw puppies in the water because of the laws of the country, that's silly.

No, common sense varies from person to person, but everyone has it. And personally, I don't think it takes much of it to think "puppies + water = bad." Learning abilities don't affect common sense, that's why it's common sense. It's a matter of good sense and sound judgement.

Anyway, this is getting out of hand. If you wanna continue this, feel free to PM me.
credittoDukey
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| | le deux | | so-so-soulful
Age 35
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Pennsylvania
Seen August 14th, 2012
Posted March 29th, 2012
954 posts
16.4 Years
It is not the job of the government to discipline children and raise them. It is the parents' job to do so, and if the parents fail to do so, that's their business. The parents can take the rap for not teaching their child properly. Punishing the child is largely pointless if local law holds that the child is too young to be prosecuted due to ignorance.

I don't care how horrific the crime, a child cannot be blamed if it is not taught right from wrong, and sometimes mistakes like this are a part of a child's growing up, and learning right from wrong. Perhaps there's an issue which caused the child to act out? You really can't know unless you investigate it, and a small country like that does not have the resources to properly investigate things like that...they have bigger concerns than a child who is acting out.

Honestly, I think people who are demonizing this child ought to be ashamed of themselves...there are much larger issues in the world that need attention; much much more attention than this is getting.
Two things severely piss me off in this world, and I'm not easy to piss off. One is abuse towards women, and the other is abuse towards animals. Actually, I think animal abuse is my all time piss off trigger.

The whole "good vs. bad is learned" is really an iffy subject. Unless a kid is held in a box their whole life, with no access to peers, elders or even a TV, they're gonna know by the age of 12 if drowning puppies is a bad idea or not; period. This is not a case of "boys will be boys" (or, "girls will be girls" in this case). There was a story years back where some young teenager locked a guy (a friend, I think) in the trunk of a car and set the car on fire... I'm sorry, but this is NOT a phase, and the same can be said about this girl.

Have you ever read up on the early warning signs of antisocial personality disorder, which usually leads to murder, and, in specific, serial killing? Cruelty towards animals is number one on the list.

That being said, not only should this girl be punished, but she should undergo psychological evaluation. Because you, Pachy, seem to value the life of a human more than that of an animal, it should be noted that the next time she does this (granted, if), it might not be a puppy she does it on.

This abnormal psychology 101. She should undergo psychological evaluation, and if it's seen that she is predisposed to antisocial personality disorder (since this is one of the cases where its easier to diagnose the younger someone is, because they might not know or understand how to hide it), then she should be locked up.
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Richard
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Melody

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Posted March 2nd, 2018
6,459 posts
18.6 Years
Children are not known for consistent good sense or sound judgment, that's precisely why they don't have the same rights as an adult does in any typical society. Any such penalty can only be applied to the parents of the child if they're found to be neglecting the child in a way to cause it to act out with such a terrible deed. This neglect includes failure to provide psychological help if it is necessary, but consider the country's status and the likely availability of a therapist in such a country.

I do not condone such harsh treatment of animals, I merely ask that you consider the situation leading to the behavior in question rather than needlessly demonizing the child. It's the parent's job to discipline the child, and it is the job of society to look the other way, because the child cannot be expected to know right from wrong if the local law will not prosecute the child for the offense. (As long as it's evident enough that the officials are not corrupt)

In the spirit of debate this is my final post for this topic. Consider all of the circumstances leading to the action before passing judgement
Age 35
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Posted March 29th, 2012
954 posts
16.4 Years
Children are not known for consistent good sense or sound judgment, that's precisely why they don't have the same rights as an adult does in any typical society. Any such penalty can only be applied to the parents of the child if they're found to be neglecting the child in a way to cause it to act out with such a terrible deed. This neglect includes failure to provide psychological help if it is necessary, but consider the country's status and the likely availability of a therapist in such a country.

I do not condone such harsh treatment of animals, I merely ask that you consider the situation leading to the behavior in question rather than needlessly demonizing the child. It's the parent's job to discipline the child, and it is the job of society to look the other way, because the child cannot be expected to know right from wrong if the local law will not prosecute the child for the offense. (As long as it's evident enough that the officials are not corrupt)
I'm usually a behaviorist in most situations, but there are chemical imbalances in the brain to cause a desire for this kind of behavior. Let's use some logic here... if she didn't know it was wrong, why would she tape it and post it? Now obviously (?) she wasn't taught that this act was something to show with pride, or flaunt, and since I didn't watch the video (nor will I ever), I won't really know in what spirit she was at the time. But this is really besides the point. Even aside from the early warning sign of antisocial personality disorder, or her social abilities, or her parents, she [tried to] killed living, breathing, feeling beings! It's like anti-death penalty people who debate saying the death penalty is too expensive while they neglect the fact that the act involves killing a human being, or pro-gun people who say violence is in our history without acknowledging the fact that they can kill living creatures with a flick of the finger. The reasoning is ludicrous. It's abducto ad absurdum in reverse!

In the spirit of debate this is my final post for this topic. Consider all of the circumstances leading to the action before passing judgement
Awww, I was just gettin' started! Am I that notorious for debating? :P
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Richard
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Seen September 24th, 2020
Posted November 26th, 2018
2,143 posts
14.7 Years
I most definetly think that the girl was wrong, and she should be punished.

But, on the other side, you can't always expect someone to know between right and wrong. The parenting plays a major role, I know someone who was like ten or eleven and still used a bottle. I don't expect much form her in the sense of knowing what is right or wrong, because her whole life she has been, and is being treated like a baby.

Pachy is totally correct in the sense that children are not supposed to be, and often are not, as morally or ethically sound as adults. You can't always go assuming something, because there are always the exceptions. Like, in the Spanish language, you change "O" to "A" when you are talking about females, yet Pirrata is both male and female. The point is, there is an exception to everything, and this girl might just be one.

Aizuke

long sword style

Age 33
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Canberra, Australia
Seen November 6th, 2015
Posted November 6th, 2015
3,025 posts
15.3 Years
I think this is utterly stupid, how she's not being punished. Here in Australia, she would have been charged, and would have to do community services. Or even spend some time in a juvenile detention center. Obviously something is wrong with this girl for her to commit such a crime. And not doing anything about it? She's not going to learn from that. She's probably going to do the same crap again, thinking she can get away with it, because she's under the age of prosecution.

I don't care for the fact she's 12 years old. Being that age doesn't give you the right to be a monster and destroy another living life. What if she did it to a baby or a young child. Obviously things would have turned out differently. I think it's stupid how the world doesn't seem to give a crap about animals and act like they're nothing at all.

And her parents are responsible for her punishment? Most parents don't even know what their kids do these days. Heck, her parents probably didn't even give a crap about what she did.

Obviously if she's gone and did something like this in the first place, her parents are raising her wrong since parents pretty much play a factor in children's lives.

This is my two cents, and this completely angers me because people like that in the world are stupid and make society go down deeper into the world of pitiful-ness and corruption.
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I think this is utterly stupid, how she's not being punished. Here in Australia, she would have been charged, and would have to do community services. Or even spend some time in a juvenile detention center. Obviously something is wrong with this girl for her to commit such a crime. And not doing anything about it? She's not going to learn from that. She's probably going to do the same crap again, thinking she can get away with it, because she's under the age of prosecution.

I don't care for the fact she's 12 years old. Being that age doesn't give you the right to be a monster and destroy another living life. What if she did it to a baby or a young child. Obviously things would have turned out differently. I think it's stupid how the world doesn't seem to give a crap about animals and act like they're nothing at all.

And her parents are responsible for her punishment? Most parents don't even know what their kids do these days. Heck, her parents probably didn't even give a crap about what she did.

Obviously if she's gone and did something like this in the first place, her parents are raising her wrong since parents pretty much play a factor in children's lives.

This is my two cents, and this completely angers me because people like that in the world are stupid and make society go down deeper into the world of pitiful-ness and corruption.
This.

I agree that the whole below the age of prosecution stuff is bullcrap. How can the police or the government just let this go? Do they realize that if she isn't punished for her crimes, than she'll do it again, or something even worse. And the worse part is, something like this doesn't grow out. It stays until you either die, or get punished for your crimes.

So yeah, she should've been punished. Severely.

Dawn

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Posted December 13th, 2022
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14.7 Years
Punishing the child is largely pointless if local law holds that the child is too young to be prosecuted due to ignorance.
I certainly hope the local law holds no such thing, as being ignorant to killing animals for fun is as simple as just doing it anyway. May as well be legal if ignorance is covered.

I believe the word you were looking for was naivety. >.o

Awww, I was just gettin' started! Am I that notorious for debating? :P
Yes, yes you are. In fact, after reading your post in this topic my views on the situation actually did a 180. Given, I hadn't read the article and gotten all the details yet.

Considering you seem to be spot on with pointing out that she deliberately taped herself and that it suggested she knew it was wrong and would draw attention, I think she does need some form of help, at the very least.
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twocows

The not-so-black cat of ill omen

Age 32
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Seen February 19th, 2023
Posted April 30th, 2021
4,307 posts
14.2 Years
I'm usually a behaviorist in most situations, but there are chemical imbalances in the brain to cause a desire for this kind of behavior. Let's use some logic here... if she didn't know it was wrong, why would she tape it and post it? Now obviously (?) she wasn't taught that this act was something to show with pride, or flaunt, and since I didn't watch the video (nor will I ever), I won't really know in what spirit she was at the time. But this is really besides the point. Even aside from the early warning sign of antisocial personality disorder, or her social abilities, or her parents, she [tried to] killed living, breathing, feeling beings! It's like anti-death penalty people who debate saying the death penalty is too expensive while they neglect the fact that the act involves killing a human being, or pro-gun people who say violence is in our history without acknowledging the fact that they can kill living creatures with a flick of the finger. The reasoning is ludicrous. It's abducto ad absurdum in reverse!



Awww, I was just gettin' started! Am I that notorious for debating? :P
I think your logic is backward. If she knew it was wrong, why would she post it? I think the fact that she posted it makes it more likely that she didn't know that what she was doing was wrong.

Anyway I think that your assumption that anyone that kills an animal is a sociopath is also a bit contrived, and I don't like that you're dragging other irrelevant issues into it, like the death penalty or gun control. Killing an animal is not the same as killing a human, not even close. Whether you meant to or not, putting forth such an argument is putting humans on the level of animals, and that's one thing I will never accept.
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I think your logic is backward. If she knew it was wrong, why would she post it? I think the fact that she posted it makes it more likely that she didn't know that what she was doing was wrong.
People post all sorts of videos on the internet. People post videos of murder on the internet, would you say they don't know that murder is wrong? The majority of the time, they know full well what they are doing and that it's wrong. There are all sorts of horrible videos posted on the internet, and people post it on there for attention or because they have a twisted sense of what is funny. They usually know it's wrong, they simply don't care.

Anyway I think that your assumption that anyone that kills an animal is a sociopath is also a bit contrived, and I don't like that you're dragging other irrelevant issues into it, like the death penalty or gun control. Killing an animal is not the same as killing a human, not even close. Whether you meant to or not, putting forth such an argument is putting humans on the level of animals, and that's one thing I will never accept.
The manner she killed them pretty much supports the view that she's a bit of a sociopath. What sort of normal person would gleefully throw puppies into a river for fun? She's clearly got a twisted sense of humour. Killing is killing whether it's a human or an animal.
Nobody is saying that the life of an animal is on the same level as a life of a human (a point which is debatable, but I won't get into that) but if she can kill an animal with such ease and joy, who is to say she wouldn't do the same thing to a human? You need to look at the actual culprit of the crime, rather than the crime itself. The culprit is clearly a sadist with a sick, twisted humour and a lack of respect for life and I think it's likely that these are the sorts of people who could easily go on to kill humans when they are older. So with that in mind, I can see why people would believe she deserves a harsh punishment and view her in such a negative way. Not as harsh as a murderer of humans, of course, but a harsh punishment nonetheless.