Livewire

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Sunnyshore City
Seen December 3rd, 2022
Posted August 2nd, 2019
14,091 posts
13.8 Years
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-13161265

If you needed anymore proof that climate change is killing our planet and effecting the way we live, well here you go. What if another hole opens up over the American Midwest? How would that effect food production? This is why things need to get done in the ecological department.

Discuss.

Steven

h e l p

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Posted September 11th, 2021
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12.3 Years
Oh, I can't wait for the storm of idiots who ignore all proof in front of them and still deny that this is occuring. o3o

Well, see, I think this is bad. Obviously it's bad. But collectively as a species, we fear change and therefore will not change. China and the U.S. are the worlds most powerful countries right now. If they don't change, chances are none of the rest will. Unfortunately, I doubt even one opening over the midwest would cause people to change. The US would just close its food exports and go, "Sucks to be countries with no farm land right now." Then conflicts would start~

I'm going off on a huge tangent. My point is, this is bad. It's not bad enough to force change. It'll have to take a lot more unfortunately.
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Livewire

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Posted August 2nd, 2019
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13.8 Years
Oh, I can't wait for the storm of idiots who ignore all proof in front of them and still deny that this is occuring. o3o

Well, see, I think this is bad. Obviously it's bad. But collectively as a species, we fear change and therefore will not change. China and the U.S. are the worlds most powerful countries right now. If they don't change, chances are none of the rest will. Unfortunately, I doubt even one opening over the midwest would cause people to change. The US would just close its food exports and go, "Sucks to be countries with no farm land right now." Then conflicts would start~

I'm going off on a huge tangent. My point is, this is bad. It's not bad enough to force change. It'll have to take a lot more unfortunately.
I agree. :/ Unless the damn sky falls, nothing will get done. We as a culture don't really react to problems until they're staring us in the face, like how we waited until after 9/11 to introduce tougher terror prevention policies, instead of being proactive about it. But it will come back to bite us in the ass if we don't do anything.

Misheard Whisper

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*skims article*

Hmm. That certainly doesn't sound good. I don't know how worried we should be in NZ - there's been a hole in the ozone layer over Australasia for a while now and the only effect it's had on us is to necessitate extra sunscreen, as far as I'm aware. But if it's really as bad as this article is suggesting, maybe we should start worrying.

Which brings us to the big question: what can we do? The damage is irreversible; it's not like we can go up there and stitch it back together with a needle. All we can do is do our best to prevent it from getting any bigger, but it looks like the hole might be big and bad enough to do some serious damage to begin with. :/
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FreakyLocz14

Conservative Patriot

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Climate change isn't killing our planet is natural. Climate change is natural. The Earth has gone through several warming and cooling periods before the human race even existed. We are technically in an ice age right now, and ice ages don't last forever. There is nothing we can do to stop this natural process.

Livewire

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Posted August 2nd, 2019
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Climate change isn't killing our planet is natural. Climate change is natural. The Earth has gone through several warming and cooling periods before the human race even existed. We are technically in an ice age right now, and ice ages don't last forever. There is nothing we can do to stop this natural process.
Man-made climate change is. Climate change is natural, yes. But it normally takes thousands and even millions of years, under normal circumstances, such as natural Ice Age cycles. The last one of those ended 12,000 years ago, and they occur every 12 thousand or so, so we're due for another one. But we're not in one now, not sure where you got that one from. How can we be in an Ice Age if the 10 hottest years in the past few millennia all happened since 1997?

FreakyLocz14

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Posted August 28th, 2018
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Man-made climate change is. Climate change is natural, yes. But it normally takes thousands and even millions of years, under normal circumstances, such as natural Ice Age cycles. The last one of those ended 12,000 years ago, and they occur every 12 thousand or so, so we're due for another one. But we're not in one now, not sure where you got that one from. How can we be in an Ice Age if the 10 hottest years in the past few millennia all happened since 1997?
Our current ice age is called the Pliocene-Quaternary glaciation. We have been in a ice age for the last 3 million years. An ice age is anytime there are ice sheets.

Livewire

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Posted August 2nd, 2019
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Our current ice age is called the Pliocene-Quaternary glaciation. We have been in a ice age for the last 3 million years. An ice age is anytime there are ice sheets.
Not an actual ice age where the entire northern hemisphere is covered in Ice, as I was referencing.

A glacial period (or alternatively glacial or glaciation) is an interval of time (thousands of years) within an ice age that is marked by colder temperatures and glacier advances. Interglacials, on the other hand, are periods of warmer climate within an ice age. The last glacial period ended about 15,000 years ago;[1] The Holocene epoch is the current interglacial.

FreakyLocz14

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Not an actual ice age where the entire northern hemisphere is covered in Ice, as I was referencing.

Please read this article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaternary_glaciation

From the article:
Quaternary glaciation, also known as the Pleistocene glaciation, the current ice age or simply the ice age, refers to the period of the last few million years (2.58 Ma to present)[1] in which permanent ice sheets were established in Antarctica and perhaps Greenland, and fluctuating ice sheets have occurred elsewhere (for example, the Laurentide ice sheet).

donavannj

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Please read this article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaternary_glaciation

From the article:
Quaternary glaciation, also known as the Pleistocene glaciation, the current ice age or simply the ice age, refers to the period of the last few million years (2.58 Ma to present)[1] in which permanent ice sheets were established in Antarctica and perhaps Greenland, and fluctuating ice sheets have occurred elsewhere (for example, the Laurentide ice sheet).
Though that's technically an ice age, it's not an ice age in the sense that most people think of.

And that doesn't change the fact that a hole in the Ozone over the Midwest would be disastrous for the global food supply.
whoops

Livewire

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Seen December 3rd, 2022
Posted August 2nd, 2019
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13.8 Years
Please read this article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaternary_glaciation

From the article:
Quaternary glaciation, also known as the Pleistocene glaciation, the current ice age or simply the ice age, refers to the period of the last few million years (2.58 Ma to present)[1] in which permanent ice sheets were established in Antarctica and perhaps Greenland, and fluctuating ice sheets have occurred elsewhere (for example, the Laurentide ice sheet).
Don't you dare try talking down to me, Freaky. I'm well aware of the difference between the two. Let's get back to the topic at hand before this ends badly for you.

You can debate what an Ice Age technically is all you want, but you can't deny what happened. A hole in the Ozone layer is causing physical harm to the Australian ecosystem. We put the hole there. You can debate semantics and technicalities all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that this is happening.
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Posted May 31st, 2013
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Don't you dare try talking down to me, Freaky. I'm well aware of the difference between the two. Let's get back to the topic at hand before this ends badly for you.

You can debate what an Ice Age technically is all you want, but you can't deny what happened. A hole in the Ozone layer is causing physical harm to the Australian ecosystem. We put the hole there. You can debate semantics and technicalities all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that this is happening.
And that is proof enough, no? While arguments like Freaky's ignores how much worse and rapid this climate change has been over whats becoming a long period of time anyways, at least we know a hole in the ozone doesn't come in patterns that we can blame our problems on.

FreakyLocz14

Conservative Patriot

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Posted August 28th, 2018
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Don't you dare try talking down to me, Freaky. I'm well aware of the difference between the two. Let's get back to the topic at hand before this ends badly for you.

You can debate what an Ice Age technically is all you want, but you can't deny what happened. A hole in the Ozone layer is causing physical harm to the Australian ecosystem. We put the hole there. You can debate semantics and technicalities all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that this is happening.
The topic at hand is discussion of ozone depletion, so I'll get back to that. A major cause of ozone depletion is chlorine. Volcanoes and the ocean release massive amounts of chlorine into the atmosphere. The ozone hole has always existed and, but numerous natural factors cause it to vary in size. This has to do with the positioning of the sun and the earth rather than man-made causes.

As far as looking for a solution, it seems like desalinizing sea water is their best bet, since they are an island.

Livewire

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Seen December 3rd, 2022
Posted August 2nd, 2019
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13.8 Years
I don't know why are getting defensive. I wasn't attacking you. I was attacking your argument. That's not my style.

The topic at hand is discussion of ozone depletion, so I'll get back to that. A major cause of ozone depletion is chlorine. Volcanoes and the ocean release massive amounts of chlorine into the atmosphere. The ozone hole has always existed and, but numerous natural factors cause it to vary in size. This has to do with the positioning of the sun and the earth rather than man-made causes.

As far as looking for a solution, it seems like desalinizing sea water is their best bet, since they are an island.

There hasn't been a major volcano eruption powerful enough to do this:



The hole in the ozone layer in 2006. Yeah, not a natural happenstance. The chlorine you're referencing doesn't come from a volcano or the ocean.

Scientists have been increasingly able to attribute the observed ozone depletion to the increase of man-made (anthropogenic) halogen compounds from CFCs by the use of complex chemistry transport models and their validation against observational data (e.g. SLIMCAT, CLaMS - Chemical Lagrangian Model of the Stratosphere). These models work by combining satellite measurements of chemical concentrations and meteorological fields with chemical reaction rate constants obtained in lab experiments. They are able to identify not only the key chemical reactions but also the transport processes which bring CFC photolysis products into contact with ozone.
Chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) and other halogenated ozone depleting substances (ODS) are mainly responsible for man-made chemical ozone depletion. The total amount of effective halogens (chlorine and bromine) in the stratosphere can be calculated and are known as the equivalent effective stratospheric chlorine (EESC).
As explained above, the primary cause of ozone depletion is the presence of chlorine-containing source gases (primarily CFCs and related halocarbons). In the presence of UV light, these gases dissociate, releasing chlorine atoms, which then go on to catalyze ozone destruction. The Cl-catalyzed ozone depletion can take place in the gas phase, but it is dramatically enhanced in the presence of polar stratospheric clouds (PSCs).

Ozone depletion describes two distinct but related phenomena observed since the late 1970s: a steady decline of about 4% per decade in the total volume of ozone in Earth's stratosphere (the ozone layer), and a much larger springtime decrease in stratospheric ozone over Earth's polar regions. The latter phenomenon is referred to as the ozone hole. In addition to these well-known stratospheric phenomena, there are also springtime polar tropospheric ozone depletion events.
So no. Volcanoes have nothing to do with it.

Ivysaur

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As long as people stop using CFC's, the hole is expected to close down in 30 years or so. Even though I agree with the need to stop it, the Ozone Layer Hole isn't exactly related to Climate Change in the way it's described, that's more about CO2 and similar other gas compunds.

That doesn't make it any less dangerous, anyway :\
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As it happened, before seeing this thread, I was thinking last night that they could put those decommissioned SR-71 Blackbirds, with modification, to use dumping artificial O3 back into the upper atmosphere. That or their engine exhaust would just burn more holes... Just a silly idea, even if it worked it'd cost countless millions, but it raises the question — why not find a way to replace it, rather than to stop it from being depleted? That way, the nonhappening mass changes to the way we live won't be necessary.
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As it happened, before seeing this thread, I was thinking last night that they could put those decommissioned SR-71 Blackbirds, with modification, to use dumping artificial O3 back into the upper atmosphere. That or their engine exhaust would just burn more holes... Just a silly idea, even if it worked it'd cost countless millions, but it raises the question — why not find a way to replace it, rather than to stop it from being depleted? That way, the nonhappening mass changes to the way we live won't be necessary.
That may be a viable option, but may also be very costly. However, it may help in the long run.

As an animal species ourselves, man-made isn't exactly "not natural". Therefore, I would think that even "man-made" holes in the ozone layer is, in a way, natural. But that is only my opinion.
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Kirozane

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That may be a viable option, but may also be very costly. However, it may help in the long run.

As an animal species ourselves, man-made isn't exactly "not natural". Therefore, I would think that even "man-made" holes in the ozone layer is, in a way, natural. But that is only my opinion.
Indeed, we are an animal species. But the man-made holes are not what we ourselves emit. It's what our creations emit. We are natural, but some of the things we create, can be seen in a lot of ways as unnatural.

It would take a COMPLETE overhaul but that option would be helpful, if it were ever to take effect.

Esper

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Seen June 30th, 2018
Posted June 30th, 2018
why not find a way to replace it, rather than to stop it from being depleted?
It's a good idea, but wouldn't it need to be done on a regular basis to offset the continual damage to the ozone layer? Unless there is some way it could be done cheaply or easily in the long run reducing the damage we do would probably be the best solution.
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Posted May 31st, 2013
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It's a good idea, but wouldn't it need to be done on a regular basis to offset the continual damage to the ozone layer? Unless there is some way it could be done cheaply or easily in the long run reducing the damage we do would probably be the best solution.
Better yet, we could do try and do BOTH

Male
Seen August 25th, 2011
Posted August 11th, 2011
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Indeed, we are an animal species. But the man-made holes are not what we ourselves emit. It's what our creations emit. We are natural, but some of the things we create, can be seen in a lot of ways as unnatural.
You got me there. Whether it's made of natural substances or not, you are correct, it is still unnatural(the factories and cars, along with many more of the humans' creations, of course).

Hm....But I, too, am concerned for the environment, despite the fact that this planet has survived through situations far worse than this one. Viable actions........Well, not using an air conditioner is one step.
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Rionix

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Posted May 31st, 2011
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12.2 Years
I'm getting concerned for the environment too..

I try not to throw garbage outside and tries to sleep with only an electric fan and not use the aircon. Hope that will help even for a little.

And I hope everyone will do the same too. Small things if done by everyone will make about a big change.
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Practice makes perfect...
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Posted July 3rd, 2018
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As long as people stop using CFC's, the hole is expected to close down in 30 years or so. Even though I agree with the need to stop it, the Ozone Layer Hole isn't exactly related to Climate Change in the way it's described, that's more about CO2 and similar other gas compunds.

That doesn't make it any less dangerous, anyway :\
Yup you're right soon it will close back up but 30 years to close could be quite dangerous indeed :/

Our climate is so complex it's so intertwine and yet so delicate and again yet so vigilant at the same time (Haven recovered from many events that have changed it drastically).
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But how much do we know about this really?
Think about it us as Humans automatically assume that we are at the center of everything and that if an answer to the problem comes along then we will all think that we're fine, Well we're not the more probable outcome is that it won't work, and it all comes down to human error, you see if humans weren't so incompetent so set in their ways then none of this would be happening, Im sure (because in fairness everyone here is quite bright) that most of you know that humans can only use about one third of their minds,thats less than what a dog can use.Lets face it people, our planet has the plague, and we're the virus thats spreading it.
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