US man jailed for assisting suicides

Started by Livewire May 4th, 2011 9:29 PM
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Livewire

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13289119

A US man has been jailed for "assisting" in the suicides of a Canadian woman, 18 and an Englishman, 32.

Should he have been jailed? Did he aid in killing those people, or was he honestly assisting them, and therefore doing their wishes, in them committing suicide?


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FreakyLocz14

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Under the law, assisting suicide is illegal in all states. A small handful of states do have exceptions for physician-assisted suicide under strict conditions; however, that is obviously not the case here.

I personally believe that U.S. Americans should have the freedom to chose what to do with their own lives without government intrusion. That includes the right to end your life provided that you are mentally stable enough to make that decision and are not suffering from depression or some other mental illness. This would include having someone assist you with your suicide.

Shining Raichu

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My first reaction to this post was to reply with something about how this is none of the government's business as it was the wishes of the deceased that he help them commit suicide. And really, it is none of their business. But then I began thinking, and realised just how wrong what this man did was.

The desire to commit suicide more often than not comes from mental disorders such as depression. These people were fixable, but when they came to him, instead of encouraging them to seek the help they need, or indeed seeking it for them, he chose to help them end their lives.

As to whether he should be jailed for it, I don't know. It's a seriously gray area. What he did was morally wrong, but as it was ultimately their own choice to die, is that really for the government to say?

FreakyLocz14

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My first reaction to this post was to reply with something about how this is none of the government's business as it was the wishes of the deceased that he help them commit suicide. And really, it is none of their business. But then I began thinking, and realised just how wrong what this man did was.

The desire to commit suicide more often than not comes from mental disorders such as depression. These people were fixable, but when they came to him, instead of encouraging them to seek the help they need, or indeed seeking it for them, he chose to help them end their lives.

As to whether he should be jailed for it, I don't know. It's a seriously gray area. What he did was morally wrong, but as it was ultimately their own choice to die, is that really for the government to say?
Plenty of people that are not mentally ill commit suicide. Do you recall the series of homosexual teens that committed suicide last fall? People can be driven to do such things by having a hard life and being harassed even if they are mentally healthy.

While I think that suicide survivors should be given help, I don't support the practice of involuntary placement in insane asylums. That's an inhumane practice that goes against the fundamental principles of human liberty.

On the topic of whether or not those who assist suicides should be criminally sanctioned: I don't believe they should.

Shining Raichu

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Plenty of people that are not mentally ill commit suicide. Do you recall the series of homosexual teens that committed suicide last fall? People can be driven to do such things by having a hard life and being harassed even if they are mentally healthy.

While I think that suicide survivors should be given help, I don't support the practice of involuntary placement in insane asylums. That's an inhumane practice that goes against the fundamental principles of human liberty.

On the topic of whether or not those who assist suicides should be criminally sanctioned: I don't believe they should.
Yeah, I recall that very well - if you look in the pictures thread there's a picture of me with a purple armband for the Spirit Day they made on Facebook to commemorate them, and it was actually those people I was thinking of when I made my post. Of course I can't say this definitively, I wasn't in their heads, but I would assume that their lives filled with bullying would have led to depression, and further to suicide.

By 'mental disorders', I wasn't implying that they were insane or that they should be institutionalised. Depression is a mental disorder as it involves the chemicals in the brain, but I wouldn't say that it makes somebody insane. I only meant that the man in question should have been seeking them help in the way of psychological assessment and therapy.

FreakyLocz14

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Yeah, I recall that very well - if you look in the pictures thread there's a picture of me with a purple armband for the Spirit Day they made on Facebook to commemorate them, and it was actually those people I was thinking of when I made my post. Of course I can't say this definitively, I wasn't in their heads, but I would assume that their lives filled with bullying would have led to depression, and further to suicide.

By 'mental disorders', I wasn't implying that they were insane or that they should be institutionalised. Depression is a mental disorder as it involves the chemicals in the brain, but I wouldn't say that it makes somebody insane. I only meant that the man in question should have been seeking them help in the way of psychological assessment and therapy.
I know that you weren't implying that. I brought that up because when people are caught attempting suicide, they risk being locked-up in one of those prisons that parade themselves as hospitals.

Steven

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I have no opinion on the issue of assited suicide, however I feel I do have something relavent to say.

If you have a terminal disease, or are at an age where your health has declined so much that you can't really do anything by yourself, I think it should be legal for you to go into the doctors and take a pill, so you can die peacefully.

That's legal in two states, I think it should be legal nationwide.

Either they do that, or they shoot themselves. Which would you rather have?
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Nick

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The way I see it, the dude was a murderer. Encouraging people you don't even know to kill themselves? That's just sick. Especially if he did it over the internet, where he could hide behind his computer and further (possibly) torment them. I don't look at it as assisting with suicide, but I do think that he put them all over the edge and helped them make the decision to do that. I find that he exploited their emotional instability for his own gain and "thrill," and played a leading role in their deaths. He sought out those people and likely filled their heads with thoughts of betterness when it came to suicide. He likely ran across a post where they asked for help on the internet, found a way to contact them, and then helped plunge whatever was keeping them from committing suicide away. I'm reminded of someone I read about who used to do the same thing, only watched the suicide take place. I'm actually sickened by this guy. Feeling "shame and remorse" my ass. He's just disappointed in himself that he got caught. He got off lightly, in my opinion.

Margot

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In this case, I think it's ridiculous. There's a difference between assisting someone who is sick and can't take the pain anymore and joining suicide pacts with suicidal people and then not going through with it. I think it's wrong to sit there and try and convince people to commit suicide, if they need convincing they need help.

In my opinion, I think the right to choose whether you want to die should be up to the person as other people stated in this thread. If you have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness then why not death too? Especially in cases where someone is extremely ill and medicine or anything isn't helping and they lose their quality of life, as I previously mentioned.

Charizard★

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Assisting suicide? I think it's wrong. I mean if the person can't kill themselves and need help for it, I don't really think they want to die. As people have already said, some have mental illnesses, but not all do. People who are completely healthy are sometimes suicidal.

Back on topic, yea I think he should be jailed. If a person wants to kill themselves, they should do it themselves. (Not trying to encourage people) But, others shouldn't help people commit it. It's murder. If anything, they should be trying to stop it.


Cherrim

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He only encouraged it. I know that's horrible but he didn't do the deed himself in any way. As far as I can tell in the article, all he did was encourage people to do it on a forum. I guess I don't know the law when it comes to this sort of thing but I imagine it's not illegal or people would be cracking down even moreso on online bullying than they already are. I don't see this as any different--except that it's happening with adults instead of children.

I hate to use this phrase but I kind of feel this is a case of "it's just the internet" and if the victims were already unstable enough to believe someone posing as a female nurse telling them the best option was hanging themselves, they were obviously pretty close to the edge. I don't think he should get off scot-free but I also don't really know if there's any sort of precedent for jailing in this sort of case. He didn't, in my eyes, actually assist anyone. He planted the idea and lied about his identity but without stronger rules about this on the internet, I'm not sure there are any actual laws about it? If there are, then by all means, he should be in jail, but I've never heard of a case like this before.This isn't even euthanasia--this is something entirely different and I don't know if it can actually be said to fall under the realm of "assisted suicide". Maybe there's another crime it can be filed under but I don't think that's quite the right sentence.

I think the "returning to jail on the anniversaries of the victims' deaths" is just dumb though. We don't make any other murderers do anything like that, why this guy who isn't even a murderer in the technical sense?


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Didn't something like this happened to Jack Kevorkian? I think he did the same thing as this guy and I remember he was jailed as well.
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Cherrim

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Didn't something like this happened to Jack Kevorkian? I think he did the same thing as this guy and I remember he was jailed as well.
But he was a doctor who would plant the idea and then give a patient the means to carry out their suicide on their own. This man pretended to be a female nurse on a forum/chatroom and simply encouraged people to hang themselves (I assume hang, since it's mentioned specifically). He "only" planted the idea and likely fed their mental anguish further until they were pushed over the brink and tried it. Doesn't seem quite the same to me as euthanasia of any kind.


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Taemin

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It disgusts me when kids bully others into suicide via use the internet, and it still disgusts me that adults do that type of thing. Doing it while sitting safely behind a computer makes him a coward, and doing it at all makes him sick. Some people may say that type of thing isn't bad, or it wasn't his fault, but I believe it was. If they had talked to someone of a positive light during those minutes they were talking to him, they might still be alive.

It's sorta like how if you order someone else to kill another person, you're still pegged as the murderer. He might not've done it to their face, but it's still really wrong. Pisses me off. :/


<side note> Also, his being obsessed with suicide is creepy.. </side note>


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TRIFORCE89

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But he was a doctor who would plant the idea and then give a patient the means to carry out their suicide on their own. This man pretended to be a female nurse on a forum/chatroom and simply encouraged people to hang themselves (I assume hang, since it's mentioned specifically). He "only" planted the idea and likely fed their mental anguish further until they were pushed over the brink and tried it. Doesn't seem quite the same to me as euthanasia of any kind.
Did he plant the idea too? Oh.

I always thought, people approached him, and that he gave them a means.

Changes my a opinion of him a bit there :| 'Cause in my mind, and what I was going for in my original post was that encouraging it (especially the way he did with fraud and posing and intent) would be worse than just giving someone the means.
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My opinion has already been stated and re-stated in this thread, but, as a Conservative Christian, I know that everything I say will be misinterpreted and shredded.

*Cough*

In all seriousness, I don't think assisted suicide is right. Personally, I don't even think suicide is right. If I want to end my life, then how is that fair to my loved ones and family members?

Last year, a 15-year old girl committed suicide for something that was, in my opinion, completely and totally idiotic. It was a temporary anger. Over a year later, people are still grieving.

But she wanted to end her life, and it's her choice, right?

Answer me that.


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Melody

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Personally, I believe that suicide is a foolish way to die.

It's a pointless waste to be honest, if you're gonna throw your life away...at least do it while doing something selfless, not something as selfish as killing yourself just because you think you'll be better off dead. :/

aruchan

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It's an ethical gray zone about assisting suicides. On one hand, killing is killing, for any reason whatsoever. Suicide is often resulting from an unresolved mental disorder, which calls into question whether a person in that state is legally sane enough to make such a decision.
However, if you can assume they are, it is perfectly fair for people to ask for help in ending their life. Suffering from a painful terminal illness should be grounds enough to qualify for assisted suicide. If you can prove that these people wanted to die, had justifiable reason to die, and were regulated in the process, it should be legally allowed. If this man could prove those three conditions, he should not be prosecuted.

Livewire

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It's an ethical gray zone about assisting suicides. On one hand, killing is killing, for any reason whatsoever. Suicide is often resulting from an unresolved mental disorder, which calls into question whether a person in that state is legally sane enough to make such a decision.
However, if you can assume they are, it is perfectly fair for people to ask for help in ending their life. Suffering from a painful terminal illness should be grounds enough to qualify for assisted suicide. If you can prove that these people wanted to die, had justifiable reason to die, and were regulated in the process, it should be legally allowed. If this man could prove those three conditions, he should not be prosecuted.
I tend to agree with this. If it can be proven that they're mentally competent, and that they're suffering from a horribly painful terminal disease, they should have the right to end their life if they so chose.