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  #1    
Old May 12th, 2011 (6:40 AM).
Hi-Techneon's Avatar
Hi-Techneon Hi-Techneon is offline
     
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    Well, this is my first competitive battling team ever, so I'd love some C&C.

    Forretress w/ Rocky Helmet
    Sturdy
    252 Special Defense, 252 HP, 4 Attack
    Careful
    - Rapid Spin
    - Spikes
    - Stealth Rock
    - Heavy Slam

    Used as a Rapid Spinner and for entry hazards.

    Garbodor w/ Black Sludge
    Stench
    252 Defense, 252 Special Defense , 4 Attack
    Modest
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Stockpile
    - Swallow
    - Gunk Shot

    Pretty much for Toxic Spikes, Stockpiling and Swallowing, and Gunk Shotting to take out enemies.

    Ferrothorn w/ Big Root
    Iron Barbs
    252 Special Defense, 252 HP, 4 Attack
    Careful
    - Leech Seed
    - Ingrain
    - Iron Defense
    - Power Whip

    Pretty much only to stall enemies.

    Yanmega w/ Expert Belt
    Speed Boost
    252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 Special Attack
    Gentle
    - U-turn
    - Ancientpower
    - Bug Buzz
    - Air Slash

    My lead, actually. U-Turn is to switch out, and all the other moves are used to deal damage.

    Flygon w/ Muscle Band
    Levitate
    252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 Special Attack
    Adamant
    - Dragon Claw
    - Dragon Tail
    - Earthquake
    - Flamethrower

    Used for taking out ice-types, and to withstand fire-typed attacks if Swampert fainted already.

    Swampert w/ Shell Bell
    Torrent
    252 Attack, 252 Special Attack, 4 Speed
    Quiet
    - Waterfall
    - Stone Edge
    - Bulldoze
    - Hammer Arm

    Used to counter fire types that eat my team alive.
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      #2    
    Old May 12th, 2011 (8:41 PM).
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    You can actually get another entirely free team slot by putting Toxic Spikes > Heavy Slam on Forretress. Garbodor is really bad in OU and removing it would be for the best benefit for your team. Ingrain traps Ferrothorn in which is something that you don't want to happen, especially since so many Pokemon have adapted to be able to deal with Ferrothorn and every successful team has to be able to do so. Iron Defense is also pretty useless when most things that can beat it either spam Fire Blast or it can't do anything to them anyway and makes it more set-up bait. Plus, Ferrothorn + Forretress are rather redundant together anyway. Pick one or the other - Ferrothorn's typing is more useful to stop things like Rotom-W and stuff and isn't really so much set-up bait as Forretress is, but at the same time Forretress can run any combination of Spikes + SR + T-Spikes + Rapid Spin. Ferrothorn also gets semi-reliable recovery in Leech Seed.

    Swampert is a much better defensive Pokemon than an offensive one. It doesn't hit hard enough. Try this set.


    [email protected]
    Trait: Torrent
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    Evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    - Stealth Rock
    - Ice Beam
    - Earthquake
    - Roar / Scald

    Flygon is really outclassed in OU, especially with the kind of set that you're running for it. If you're so inclined to run Flygon, try using a Choice Band or Choice Scarf on it because it really doesn't hit as hard as it wants to be able to. Plus, you should also run Outrage > Dragon Tail, Stone Edge > Dragon Claw, and U-turn > Flamethrower. It's best when used as a scout kinda with U-turn. You can also run what I believe is the best Choice Scarfer in the metagame right now with an excellent combination of bulk, utility, and power in Choice Scarf Garchomp.


    [email protected] Scarf
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SpA)
    Evs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    - Outrage
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Fang

    There are other fixes you'll want for your team but that's a pretty good start for now, imo. Ask if you don't understand anything/have further questions/observations! C:
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      #3    
    Old May 12th, 2011 (9:35 PM).
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      You can replace Garbador with Tentacruel to set up Toxic Spikes and act as another Rapid Spinner to help with Yanmega's SR weakness.

      I also agree with getting rid of either Forretress or Ferrothorn, having both is overkill with the fire weaknesses. You could replace either with Chandelure w/Flash Fire, absorbing incoming fire attacks and blocking rapid spin.
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        #4    
      Old May 13th, 2011 (7:07 AM). Edited May 13th, 2011 by Hi-Techneon.
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      Hi-Techneon Hi-Techneon is offline
         
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        Thanks for the tips! I changed my team quite a lot actually because 3 of them got replaced. I hope this is better:

        Forretress w/ Shed Shell
        Sturdy
        252 Special Defense, 252 HP, 4 Attack
        Careful
        - Rapid Spin
        - Spikes
        - Stealth Rock
        - Toxic Spikes

        Haxorus w/ Choice Scarf
        Mold Breaker
        252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP
        Adamant
        - Earthquake
        - Outrage
        - Poison Jab
        - Brick Break

        Metagross w/ Choice Band
        Clear Body
        252 Special Defense, 252 Attack, 4 HP
        Adamant
        - Hammer Arm
        - Bullet Punch
        - Zen Headbutt
        - Earthquake

        Yanmega w/ Expert Belt
        Speed Boost
        252 Special Attack, 252 Speed, 4 Speed
        Gentle
        - U-turn
        - Ancientpower
        - Bug Buzz
        - Air Slash

        Spiritomb w/ Leftovers
        Pressure
        252 Defense, 252 Special Defense, 4 HP
        Modest
        - Hypnosis
        - Dream Eater
        - Confuse Ray
        - Spite

        Swampert w/ Shell Bell
        Torrent
        252 HP, 4 Attack, 252 Defense
        Relaxed
        - Ice Beam
        - Earthquake
        - Scald
        - Roar

        If there are still things that need to be changed, please tell. Thanks in advance
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          #5    
        Old May 13th, 2011 (11:12 AM).
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        Theobald Theobald is offline
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          Your Yanmega's EV spread seems really strange. Perhaps it's just a typo, but it should be 252 SpA/252 Spe/4 Def. Ideally, it should be holding a Life Orb, but with no Wish Support, Expert Belt is fine.

          Change Spiritomb's held item to Leftovers. Muscle Band won't get any use here.
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            #6    
          Old May 13th, 2011 (11:15 AM).
          Hi-Techneon's Avatar
          Hi-Techneon Hi-Techneon is offline
             
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            Quote:
            Originally Posted by Theobald View Post
            Your Yanmega's EV spread seems really strange. Perhaps it's just a typo, but it should be 252 SpA/252 Spe/4 Def. Ideally, it should be holding a Life Orb, but with no Wish Support, Expert Belt is fine.

            Change Spiritomb's held item to Leftovers. Muscle Band won't get any use here.
            The Muscle Band was something I forget to change.
            Yanmega's EV Spread was actually to boost it's Attack a bit, but I guess yours is better. Thanks
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              #7    
            Old May 13th, 2011 (2:14 PM).
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            PlatinumDude PlatinumDude is offline
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            I'd use Leftovers or Shed Shell on Forretress because it doesn't have reliable recovery outside of Pain Split to abuse it continually. The former item can be used to heal Forretress passively, while the latter lets you escape from Magnezone.
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              #8    
            Old May 13th, 2011 (11:08 PM).
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            Hi-Techneon Hi-Techneon is offline
               
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              Quote:
              Originally Posted by PlatinumDude View Post
              I'd use Leftovers or Shed Shell on Forretress because it doesn't have reliable recovery outside of Pain Split to abuse it continually. The former item can be used to heal Forretress passively, while the latter lets you escape from Magnezone.
              Shed Shell it is, then :D
              Thanks for your help~
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                #9    
              Old May 16th, 2011 (1:26 AM).
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              All 3 hazards on Forretress is just...no. My fav Forry set is Spin/Spikes/Payback or Volt Change or EQ/Gyro Ball and it prolly works the best. Gyro is your main STAB move. Payback hits ghosts, Volt Change hits Jellicent and gives you momentum. EQ just for coverage and steels.


              Put Stealth Rock on Swampert over Scald.


              Spiritomb is outclassed by other ghosts as a Rapid Spin blocker see: Jellicent.


              Haxorus wants Dual Chomp over Poison Jab. This helps breaks subs and to not lock yourself into Outrage early game.


              As for Metagross, Trick/Meteor Mash/Hammer Arm or Earthquake/Bullet Punch or Zen Headbutt is its best set imo. 244 HP / 252 Att / 16 Speed as the spread. Hammer Amr is better than EQ at this point in the metagame IMO cos it nails Air Balloon Heatran and Excadrill etc and also Ferrothorn.


              Yanmega wants : Bug Buzz/Air Slash/Protect or Hypnosis/Hypnosis or HP [Fire/Ground]. HP Fire hits is usually better because it hits Scizor, Skarm, Ferrothorn etc. 104 Def / 252 SpA / 152 Spe @ Modest is a better ev spread which lets you be 3HKO'd by Scizor's Bullet Punch (non CB) and 3HKO'd by Azumarril's CB Aqua Jet IIRC.
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                #10    
              Old May 16th, 2011 (2:45 AM).
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              Hi-Techneon Hi-Techneon is offline
                 
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                Thanks alot, Dark Azelf :D
                Thanks for the tips! I changed my team quite a lot actually because 3 of them got replaced. I hope this is better:

                Forretress w/ Shed Shell
                Sturdy
                252 Special Defense, 252 HP, 4 Attack
                Careful
                - Rapid Spin
                - Spikes
                - Volt Change
                - Gyro Ball

                Haxorus w/ Choice Scarf
                Mold Breaker
                252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP
                Adamant
                - Earthquake
                - Outrage
                - Dual Chop
                - Brick Break

                Metagross w/ Choice Band
                Clear Body
                252 Special Defense, 252 Attack, 4 HP
                Adamant
                - Hammer Arm
                - Bullet Punch
                - Zen Headbutt
                - Earthquake

                Yanmega w/ Expert Belt
                Speed Boost
                104 Defense, 252 Special Attack, 152 Speed
                Modest
                - Bug Buzz
                - Air Slash
                - Hypnosis
                - Hidden Power (Ground) => to counter fire and rock types

                Jellicent w/ Leftovers
                Cursed Body
                252 Defense, 252 HP, 4 Special Attack
                Relaxed
                - Scald
                - Ice Beam
                - Will-O-Wisp
                - Hex

                Swampert w/ Shell Bell
                Torrent
                252 HP, 4 Attack, 252 Defense
                Relaxed
                - Ice Beam
                - Earthquake
                - Stealth Rock
                - Roar

                If there are more tips, or things that need to be changed, please tell me
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                  #11    
                Old May 17th, 2011 (12:26 PM). Edited May 17th, 2011 by The Jock.
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                The Jock The Jock is offline
                   
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                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by Hi-Techneon View Post
                  Thanks alot, Dark Azelf :D
                  Thanks for the tips! I changed my team quite a lot actually because 3 of them got replaced. I hope this is better:

                  Forretress w/ Shed Shell
                  Sturdy
                  252 Special Defense, 252 HP, 4 Attack
                  Careful
                  - Rapid Spin
                  - Spikes
                  - Volt Change
                  - Gyro Ball

                  Haxorus w/ Choice Scarf
                  Mold Breaker
                  252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP
                  Adamant
                  - Earthquake
                  - Outrage
                  - Dual Chop
                  - Brick Break

                  Metagross w/ Choice Band
                  Clear Body
                  252 Special Defense, 252 Attack, 4 HP
                  Adamant
                  - Hammer Arm
                  - Bullet Punch
                  - Zen Headbutt
                  - Earthquake

                  Alternatively, you could use an air Balloon to get a shot at something like Excadrill before it can EQ you.

                  Yanmega w/ Expert Belt
                  Speed Boost
                  104 Defense, 252 Special Attack, 152 Speed
                  Modest
                  - Bug Buzz
                  - Air Slash
                  - Hypnosis
                  - Hidden Power (Ground) => to counter fire and rock types

                  I noticed Dark Azelf suggested Hypnosis, but you could run protect over that, if you wanted to take advantage of the speed boost and stick to the typical Attacking LeadMega set.

                  Jellicent w/ Leftovers
                  Cursed Body
                  252 Defense, 252 HP, 4 Special Attack
                  Relaxed
                  - Scald
                  - Ice Beam
                  - Will-O-Wisp
                  - Hex
                  Taunt>>>>>Hex. Jellicent is a monster with Taunt and really only needs Burn and Taunt to stall a physical sweeper not named Conkeldurr. Also, take advantage of Recover and use it over Ice Beam, which Swampert already has, so Jellicent can last longer.

                  Swampert w/ Shell Bell
                  Torrent
                  252 HP, 4 Attack, 252 Defense
                  Relaxed
                  - Ice Beam
                  - Earthquake
                  - Stealth Rock
                  - Roar

                  I reccomend you add some Special Defense EVs, so that Swampert isn't completely wiped out by something like a Dragonite with special attacks. Perhaps you could adhere your EV spread to the one offered on Smogon's "Tank" set for Swampert. (248 HP / 216 Def / 44 SpD) Also, 257 Attack says that Lefties is a better option than the shell bell.

                  If there are more tips, or things that need to be changed, please tell me
                  Comments, gripes and advice in bold.
                  EDIT: So I guess people rating teams just ignore the other rates given and don't build on them?
                    #12    
                  Old May 17th, 2011 (12:33 PM). Edited May 17th, 2011 by Dark Azelf.
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                  CB Gross needs Trick honestly this gen or its rather bad, this lets you cripple walls. Put it over EQ.

                  Speaking of need, Jellicent NEEDS Recover over Ice Beam. Taunt is awesome over Hex too, shuts down Blissey and stops Ferrothorn and Forry Spiking all over your ass.
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                    #13    
                  Old May 17th, 2011 (1:33 PM).
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                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by Dark Azelf View Post
                  CB Gross needs Trick honestly this gen or its rather bad, this lets you cripple walls. Put it over EQ.

                  Speaking of need, Jellicent NEEDS Recover over Ice Beam. Taunt is awesome over Hex too, shuts down Blissey and stops Ferrothorn and Forry Spiking all over your ass.
                  I'd like to second what D_A said about Jellicent, and particularly I'd like to echo Taunt. Running a 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe allows Jellicent to outspeed and burn Scizor, and 84 speed allows Jelli to outspeed and Taunt minimum Speed Skarmory. Really, Taunt makes Jellicent infinitely more effective at least it flat-out beat a lot of your common wall-type Pokémon such as Ferrothorn (you prevent it from Leech Seeding you with Taunt, and then a burned Power Whip does very little while you can just keep spamming Recover to get health back). It's really a fantastic idea to use Taunt on it and run some speed, even if you lose a little bulk. It just lets you beat a ton more things. :)

                  While Taunt is optional to an extent, Jellicent always needs Recover over Ice Beam, though. Replace that. >O
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                  Old May 18th, 2011 (11:01 AM).
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                  Hi-Techneon Hi-Techneon is offline
                     
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                    Updated my team once again, thanks to all for your help :D

                    Forretress w/ Shed Shell
                    Sturdy
                    252 Special Defense, 252 HP, 4 Attack
                    Careful
                    - Rapid Spin
                    - Spikes
                    - Volt Change
                    - Gyro Ball

                    Haxorus w/ Choice Scarf
                    Mold Breaker
                    252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP
                    Adamant
                    - Earthquake
                    - Outrage
                    - Dual Chop
                    - Brick Break

                    Metagross w/ Choice Band
                    Clear Body
                    252 Special Defense, 252 Attack, 4 HP
                    Adamant
                    - Hammer Arm
                    - Bullet Punch
                    - Zen Headbutt
                    - Trick

                    Yanmega w/ Expert Belt
                    Speed Boost
                    104 Defense, 252 Special Attack, 152 Speed
                    Modest
                    - Bug Buzz
                    - Air Slash
                    - Protect
                    - Hidden Power (Ground) => to counter fire and rock types

                    Jellicent w/ Leftovers
                    Cursed Body
                    248 HP, 216 Defense, 44 Speed
                    Relaxed
                    - Scald
                    - Recover
                    - Will-O-Wisp
                    - Taunt

                    Swampert w/ Shell Bell
                    Torrent
                    248 HP, 216 Defense, 44 Special Defense
                    Relaxed
                    - Ice Beam
                    - Earthquake
                    - Stealth Rock
                    - Roar

                    If there are more tips, or things that need to be changed, please tell me
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                    Old May 19th, 2011 (12:00 PM).
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                      haxorus with focus sash (protects against ice beam)
                      mold breaker
                      drgon dance
                      outrage
                      earthquake
                      x scissor
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                      Old May 19th, 2011 (1:52 PM).
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                      Quote:
                      Originally Posted by bdrago95 View Post
                      haxorus with focus sash (protects against ice beam)
                      mold breaker
                      drgon dance
                      outrage
                      earthquake
                      x scissor
                      Do you have any reasoning why Hi- Techneon should use that set? The current set is a Choice Scarf set, something used to revenge other things. A DD Haxorus and a Scarf Haxorus have two very different purposes, and the one he has in his team is like that for a reason. I mean, it's nice and all that you suggested a new set, but if you don't give any reason why it should be added into the team it's very hard to take your suggestion seriously.
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                      Old May 19th, 2011 (2:05 PM).
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                        Quote:
                        Originally Posted by Vrai View Post
                        Do you have any reasoning why Hi- Techneon should use that set? The current set is a Choice Scarf set, something used to revenge other things. A DD Haxorus and a Scarf Haxorus have two very different purposes, and the one he has in his team is like that for a reason. I mean, it's nice and all that you suggested a new set, but if you don't give any reason why it should be added into the team it's very hard to take your suggestion seriously.
                        Okay im farely new to black and white so i was just making a friendly suggestion but if he leaves dd hax as his last pokemon and gets a new choice pokemon im sure he will do well one dd and an eq can take out bronzong (with mold breaker of course
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                        Old May 19th, 2011 (2:51 PM).
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                        Quote:
                        Originally Posted by bdrago95 View Post
                        Okay im farely new to black and white so i was just making a friendly suggestion but if he leaves dd hax as his last pokemon and gets a new choice pokemon im sure he will do well one dd and an eq can take out bronzong (with mold breaker of course
                        That's okay. It's just that most of the suggestions here are meant to be competitively minded, and it's really preferred if you know a lot about the metagame and how things work before you make suggestions. Still, though, you haven't really provided much reasoning for why he should make that change. Why is DD Haxorus better for his team than any of the other Pokémon listed? Remember that he can't just throw in whatever Pokémon he wants without throwing off the whole balance of his team - when you remove one Pokémon, you have to account for all of the things it checked for your team and you have to re-evaluate how you're going to deal with those things. For example, if you took out Jellicent for DD Haxorus, then he'd lose a fantastic check to Scizor and the rest of his team would struggle with Scizor (especially considering a SD version). Could you explain exactly how a DD Haxorus benefits his team rather than another Pokémon?

                        ...That's kind of a rhetorical question as, like you said, you're new to B&W. You might want to try to play around a few competitive battles yourself and see if you can learn the metagame before you try to suggest any more changes! If you have any questions about it, though, feel free to ask in the Request-A-Moveset thread or send them to me personally. I have no trouble trying to help someone understand how things work. XD;
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                        Old June 6th, 2011 (11:10 AM).
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                        Hi-Techneon Hi-Techneon is offline
                           
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                          I'm sorry for bumping this thread, but I wanted to be sure that the team right now is good enough to start training. If things can be improved, please tell me! Thanks
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                          Old June 6th, 2011 (11:36 AM).
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                            That last post right? Have you tried Scarf Garchomp over Haxorus? It outspeeds some things that Haxorus cannot. For example, Volcarona and Salamence, putting them out of commission before they can hurt your team.

                            I'm also not so keen on not having Meteor Mash on Metagross. That move is simply amazing lategame where you can just spam it abusing Metagrosses bulk. I'd also consider Pursuit over Trick to catch [email protected] on the switch but I can see the utility of Trick.

                            If you can get more Leftovers, that is more beneficial than Shell Bell on Swampert, but so far, it looks good.
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                            Old June 6th, 2011 (11:37 AM).
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                            You Metagross evs are eh : 244 HP / 252 Att / 16 speed is what it wants.

                            Also Leftovers > Shell Bell on Swampert.
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                            Old June 6th, 2011 (12:13 PM).
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                            Quote:
                            Originally Posted by flamehaze94 View Post
                            That last post right? Have you tried Scarf Garchomp over Haxorus? It outspeeds some things that Haxorus cannot. For example, Volcarona and Salamence, putting them out of commission before they can hurt your team.

                            I'm also not so keen on not having Meteor Mash on Metagross. That move is simply amazing lategame where you can just spam it abusing Metagrosses bulk. I'd also consider Pursuit over Trick to catch [email protected] on the switch but I can see the utility of Trick.

                            If you can get more Leftovers, that is more beneficial than Shell Bell on Swampert, but so far, it looks good.
                            I agree with all of this, as well as saying that you should run Meteor Mash >>> Hammer Arm, imo. You hit a lot of the same targets (Tyranitar, etc). You're only missing out on what, Excadrill? ...which you probably shouldn't be staying in on anyway, and which a smart opponent won't try to switch in on Metagross. Plus you get STAB on it and it smashes things. You have Zen Headbutt/Trick for bulky waters anyway. :(
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                              #23    
                            Old June 6th, 2011 (12:15 PM).
                            Dark Azelf's Avatar
                            Dark Azelf Dark Azelf is offline
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                            Without Hammer Arm you lose to steels see : Ferrothorn, Heatran and Skarm etc.
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                              #24    
                            Old June 7th, 2011 (7:12 AM).
                            Hi-Techneon's Avatar
                            Hi-Techneon Hi-Techneon is offline
                               
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                              Forretress w/ Shed Shell
                              Sturdy
                              252 Special Defense, 252 HP, 4 Attack
                              Careful
                              - Rapid Spin
                              - Spikes
                              - Volt Change
                              - Gyro Ball

                              Salamence w/ Choice Scarf
                              Intimidate
                              252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP
                              Jolly
                              - Fire Fang
                              - Thunder Fang
                              - Dragon Claw
                              - Brick Break

                              Metagross w/ Choice Band
                              Clear Body
                              244 HP, 252 Attack, 16 Speed
                              Adamant
                              - Meteor Mash
                              - Bullet Punch
                              - Zen Headbutt
                              - Hammer Arm

                              Yanmega w/ Expert Belt
                              Speed Boost
                              104 Defense, 252 Special Attack, 152 Speed
                              Modest
                              - Bug Buzz
                              - Air Slash
                              - Protect
                              - Hidden Power (Ground) => to counter fire and rock types

                              Jellicent w/ Leftovers
                              Cursed Body
                              248 HP, 216 Defense, 44 Speed
                              Relaxed
                              - Scald
                              - Recover
                              - Will-O-Wisp
                              - Taunt

                              Swampert w/ Leftovers
                              Torrent
                              248 HP, 216 Defense, 44 Special Defense
                              Relaxed
                              - Ice Beam
                              - Earthquake
                              - Stealth Rock
                              - Roar

                              I hope this is better, I replaced Haxorus with Salamence instead of Garchomp as I don't really like Garchomp. But if I really have to, I'll replace it with Garchomp if that's better.
                              Please leave any suggestions
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                                #25    
                              Old June 7th, 2011 (7:54 AM).
                              Vrai's Avatar
                              Vrai Vrai is offline
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                              Quote:
                              Originally Posted by Hi-Techneon View Post
                              I hope this is better, I replaced Haxorus with Salamence instead of Garchomp as I don't really like Garchomp. But if I really have to, I'll replace it with Garchomp if that's better.
                              Please leave any suggestions :)
                              Garchomp really would be ideal. It has two great complimentary STABs in Ground/Dragon, it has good bulk, solid coverage, an immunity to Thunder Wave, its trolly base 102 speed, and perhaps most importantly it resists Stealth Rock rather than being weak to it, letting it come in and revenge multiple things.

                              Also, keep in mind Dark Azelf's comment on Hammer Arm. I wasn't thinking of Ferrothorn, Skarm, etc. when I mentioned what I did. It's your option, but Hammer Arm is just as viable as Meteor Mash.
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