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  #701    
Old August 21st, 2011 (9:40 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gothitelle. View Post
From my POV, I think it helps gays more so hurt them. I mean if you think about it, if you don't openly say your sexuality, then there's nothing the others can make fun of. The military will make you feel like you are like everyone else in the unit, that you are one.
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Originally Posted by Gothitelle. View Post

If you say your gay... well... I think they discharge you for your own safety, I mean there's some people in the military who are homophobic and might do harm to you. So that's how I see it. Which is why, if I ever intendify myself as any other sexuality, I will simply say I'm straight.

I hope that I don't get kicked out for this. (even tho, Chris Crocker is one who doesn't believe gays should even be in the military)
In the word of Lady GaGa in that speech -ty- put up, why discharge the perfectly good solider that is gay, rather then discharging the prejudice solider who's making a problem out of nothing?

Consitering your POV, it'd be just as "safe" and more just if the hypocritical (because they're fighting for equality) prejudice solider to be discharged.

Don't be afraid to stick up for what you believe in. Do not cater to homophobia, because the world will never get better on its own if homophobia is consitered "okay."

And this is an open environment, you're not going to be kicked because you have a different opinion then others. :/
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  #702    
Old August 21st, 2011 (9:48 AM).
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Originally Posted by Gothitelle. View Post
From my POV, I think it helps gays more so hurt them. I mean if you think about it, if you don't openly say your sexuality, then there's nothing the others can make fun of. The military will make you feel like you are like everyone else in the unit, that you are one.

If you say your gay... well... I think they discharge you for your own safety, I mean there's some people in the military who are homophobic and might do harm to you. So that's how I see it. Which is why, if I ever intendify myself as any other sexuality, I will simply say I'm straight.

I hope that I don't get kicked out for this. (even tho, Chris Crocker is one who doesn't believe gays should even be in the military)
I do understand about some people in the military being homophobic. I was in the Army for a short time. I do understand about people possibly making fun of or assaulting you. But, let me tell you one thing about assaulting your fellow Soldier: that is something that will get you kicked out of the Army faster than anything, and Soldiers know that. Therefore, the worst that someone in their right mind who wants to stay in the Army would do is make fun of them. But, think about it: people get made fun of for EVERYTHING. When I was in the Army, I noticed that though some fellow Soldiers may make fun of you, the majority are very supportive if you're struggling. You get belittled by the Drill Sergeants more than anyone else. Therefore, I think getting made fun of for being gay is not a good enough reason for Don't Ask, Don't Tell to still be implemented. I have first-hand experience with how those Drill Sergeants treat you: they belittle you and try their very best to push you to your breaking point, far worse than getting made fun of for being gay. In other words, if you can make it past the belittling and the pressure of the Drill Sergeants, you can make it past getting made fun of by a few people for being gay.
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  #703    
Old August 21st, 2011 (12:20 PM).
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    That's true. Also, the military operates on what America wants. If America doesn't want gays to openly serve, then yeah. I think that all should serve, but keep sexual orientation out of it. You're there to serve your country.
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      #704    
    Old August 21st, 2011 (12:46 PM).
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gothitelle. View Post
    That's true. Also, the military operates on what America wants. If America doesn't want gays to openly serve, then yeah. I think that all should serve, but keep sexual orientation out of it. You're there to serve your country.
    As far as I'm concerned, if you're able to survive the Hell I went through, you should be allowed to serve no matter what your sexual orientation is. I'm one of those people who believes you're born with your sexual orientation, so I see the Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy to be comparable to not letting someone serve because of their race.
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      #705    
    Old August 21st, 2011 (1:15 PM).
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      Agreed Deoxys, I will also add that both heterosexual and homosexuals should be held to the same standards. If you have are in a relationship with someone of the same gender, you should not be forced to hide it. Straight soldier talk about their wives and kids, and they should be able to; it's not so much about "sex" as it is "family". But if a gay guy grabs another soldier anything, yep send him away. The same should happen if a guy grabs a female soldier's whatever, lol. But if someone is purely homophobic, and refuses to work with a gay man, or is racist and refuses to work with a black/hispanic/asian/ Mideastern person, then they are the problem. We cannot discharged minorities because a select few individuals do not like them or are uncomfortable. As Gothitelle stated, the army should be one cohesive unit, whose to say gender, sexuality, or race inhibits that goal?
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        #706    
      Old August 21st, 2011 (1:28 PM).
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by -ty- View Post
      Agreed Deoxys, I will also add that both heterosexual and homosexuals should be held to the same standards. If you have are in a relationship with someone of the same gender, you should not be forced to hide it. Straight soldier talk about their wives and kids, and they should be able to; it's not so much about "sex" as it is "family". But if a gay guy grabs another soldier anything, yep send him away. The same should happen if a guy grabs a female soldier's whatever, lol. But if someone is purely homophobic, and refuses to work with a gay man, or is racist and refuses to work with a black/hispanic/asian/ Mideastern person, then they are the problem. We cannot discharged minorities because a select few individuals do not like them or are uncomfortable. As Gothitelle stated, the army should be one cohesive unit, whose to say gender, sexuality, or race inhibits that goal?
      Fully agreed. And what you say about grabbing another Soldier and stuff like that, during Basic Training and AIT, any sort of physical relationship with any fellow Soldier is strictly prohibited and will get you in serious legal trouble and kicked out of the Army. I got discharged for medical reasons (I have scoliosis), and had no negative consequences other than losing my job as a Soldier. But, any sort of physical relationship of any type during training is grounds for legal trouble.
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        #707    
      Old August 21st, 2011 (2:15 PM). Edited August 21st, 2011 by Alice.
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Landorus View Post
      Maybe you should read it instead of just seeing that it mentions Glee. It's not about Glee - it just involves it.
      I did read the whole thing. I was responding to -ty- not the tumblr link.

      Also, omg so many posts. D:
        #708    
      Old August 21st, 2011 (5:01 PM).
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      When talking about the military, I think it shows a lot about the intense homophobia some people have that homosexuality even entered people's thought process when it comes to something so important as defending the nation. While I do take Gothitelle's point that it would be safer for the gay people to discharge them when you consider the potential for homophobia in a military environment, I hardly think that their safety would be the reason for the discharge.
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        #709    
      Old August 21st, 2011 (8:24 PM).
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Shining Raichu View Post
      When talking about the military, I think it shows a lot about the intense homophobia some people have that homosexuality even entered people's thought process when it comes to something so important as defending the nation. While I do take Gothitelle's point that it would be safer for the gay people to discharge them when you consider the potential for homophobia in a military environment, I hardly think that their safety would be the reason for the discharge.
      Following that logic women shouldn't be allowed to join because of the high occurrence of rape and violence/prejudice based upon sexism.
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        #710    
      Old August 22nd, 2011 (3:36 AM).
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      Take it down a notch, I'm on your side lol. I don't agree with Gothitelle, I just said I saw where she was coming from.
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        #711    
      Old August 22nd, 2011 (5:00 AM).
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      I don't even see why sexual orientation should matter. When you're willing to risk your life for the safety of an entire nation, what does sexual orientation have to do with anything? People make such a big deal about sexual orientation these days, it's absolutely ridiculous. Who cares if someone's gay? Who cares if someone is straight, even? The armed forces isn't about finding your life partner and creating distractions that are relationships during. It's about protecting your nation.

      On the off chance that their safety is at all a concern, it doesn't come across that way - and that's very important in today's society. The way something appears is the way that they people consume it. They'll take discharging openly gay soldiers as bigotry, and then they will assume that it is alright to portray homophobic behavior towards them and other gays. It comes across to the American people and to the world as blatant homophobia from a nation that is supposed to be this diverse pool of people, ranging from all different backgrounds and orientation.

      It's very counter-productive of America to have had this policy in the first place, seeing as what America was based on.
        #712    
      Old August 22nd, 2011 (11:58 AM).
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Shining Raichu View Post
      Take it down a notch, I'm on your side lol. I don't agree with Gothitelle, I just said I saw where she was coming from.
      I wasn't arguing with you. I was giving you a reason to be against any sort of ban on gays in the military.
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        #713    
      Old August 22nd, 2011 (3:59 PM).
      Gothitelle. Gothitelle. is offline
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        But no one is saying that gays should be banned :p
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          #714    
        Old August 23rd, 2011 (10:26 AM).
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        Quote:
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        But no one is saying that gays should be banned :p
        I didn't say anyone did, I just said it because we were talking about gays in the military.
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          #715    
        Old August 23rd, 2011 (11:09 AM).
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        I think the conversation kind of died, so mind if I put up a question?

        I've heard that some Gays are either against, or don't believe in bisexuality. What's your opinion on it?

        I don't understand why anyone would think that tbh... It had never even crossed my mind that it could be any different from being Gay. (Well, I mean it's different, but... you know what I mean. -.-)
          #716    
        Old August 23rd, 2011 (11:22 AM).
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        My mom personally believes that bisexual isn't a sexuality. She respects gay people plenty, but thinks that being bi is just that you "want to have sex with everyone", lol.

        Bisexuality is a hard thing to talk about, because despite the fact that bullying does occur due to sexual orientation, there are circles where it's "cool" to be bi or gay, especially for girls. I had a friend who identified as bisexual, and then saw an older (40s) man who identified as it and said that he was too old to be bi and that it was "gross", to use her term. It's also fairly common from what I've seen for some people to mistake the urge to experiment with their sexuality, because imo if you want to experiment with the same sex a few times, that doesn't make you bisexual necessarily. So in late high school and college, many people will say that they're bisexual when they really mean "I want to be able to experiment with the same sex but not be judged for it". Not that they should be judged for wanting to experiment, but in general opinion I believe people that claim they're bi are judged much less harshly than people who just want to experiment, because experimenting is a term that often has the connotation of a...(wo)man of loose morals, if you will.

        I think I may have gone a bit off target with that, lol.
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          #717    
        Old August 23rd, 2011 (11:44 AM).
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by QuilavaKing View Post
          I don't understand why anyone would think that tbh... It had never even crossed my mind that it could be any different from being Gay. (Well, I mean it's different, but... you know what I mean. -.-)
          From what I heard from all the reports I've seen of people being against bisexuality, there are a few reasons why gays are against it.

          For one thing, there's the fact that bisexuals have passing privilege that gays never have because there's a chance that a bi person could be in a relationship with a person of the opposite sex. Even though the bi person is bi, the world doesn't see them like that, and they're more accepted by society in that way. But for gays, they can't pass as straight in their relationships.

          There's also the belief that Toujours's mother has: that bisexuals will just run off with everyone. If a gay person is in a relationship with someone who's bi, there might be a fear that the bi person will run off to be in a relationship with a person of the opposite sex (for reasons I pointed out in the second paragraph).

          That's just what I've heard from others, and what I currently remember. If anyone needs me to, I'll explain more on the first paragraph because I know I'm not as coherent as I could be with that.

          As for my feelings on bisexuality, I'm fine with it.
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            #718    
          Old August 23rd, 2011 (12:01 PM).
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          You can't base anyone's personality on their sexuality. Straight/Gay people are no more or less likely to cheat than someone who is Bi.
            #719    
          Old August 23rd, 2011 (1:32 PM).
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            I've heard that some Gays are either against, or don't believe in bisexuality. What's your opinion on it?

            I respect people who are bisexual just like I would anybody else. I see no reason to hate them, because isn't that what homophobic people do to homosexuals essentially?
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              #720    
            Old August 23rd, 2011 (2:37 PM).
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              I hope it's alright for me to join

              I don't understand why people discriminate against bisexuals, or anyone of any sexuality really.

              I'm bisexual myself, and I really dislike when people claim to be bi just to be "cool" or to fit in or whatever. Especially since I've had to deal with a lot of inner struggles before I could literally accept myself for who I am. And when people just pretend to be like this to seem cool, it really frustrates me because they never had to deal with the things that I had to deal with.

              It's not even about wanting to have sex with everyone. I'm just physically attracted to members of both sexes, and I can't help it. I'm not going to go out having sex with every person I see. (In fact, the thought of sex still scares me a little.) I just want to be able to fall in love, whether it be with a man or a woman.
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                #721    
              Old August 23rd, 2011 (2:48 PM). Edited August 23rd, 2011 by wcdaily.
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                Quote:
                Originally Posted by QuilavaKing View Post
                You can't base anyone's personality on their sexuality. Straight/Gay people are no more or less likely to cheat than someone who is Bi.
                Just like hetrosexuals seem to think just because someone is gay/bi that automatically make them a pervert, that is far from the truth.

                Also can I join? I have thought a lot about it the past few weeks, and I think I might be pansexual. At first I thought I was possibily bi, but to be honest, it wouldn't bother me to be with a transgender or someone outside of the gender binary. I would also like to mention I never came to this realization with the thought of popularity or being cool, in fact everyone I know (besides my art teacher.) seems to think being either gay/bi is wrong and make fun of it, pansexuality is no expection to this. Nothing is wrong with my head, I'm just physically attracted to all genders, I didn't choose it, only realized it.
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                  #722    
                Old August 23rd, 2011 (3:01 PM).
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                Oh yeah, I think a lot of heterosexuals (my past self included) just automatically assume that all gay people want to have sex with every guy they see, which I would imagine, is what causes them to feel so uncomfortable around gays.
                  #723    
                Old August 23rd, 2011 (3:08 PM).
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                I've heard that some Gays are either against, or don't believe in bisexuality. What's your opinion on it?

                I don't see a thing wrong with someone being bi. A bisexual person simply has an attraction to both genders, which means they could be in a relationship with either. It does not mean that they want to "have sex with everybody." And I agree that just because a person is gay doesn't mean they want to have sex with every guy/girl (depending on gender) out there. It just means they only want to have a relationship with the same sex. Other than that, the generic homosexual or bisexual is the same as a heterosexual.
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                  #724    
                Old August 23rd, 2011 (3:19 PM). Edited August 24th, 2011 by Shining Raichu.
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                Welcome aboard, LuvdiscLady and wcdaily!

                Quote:
                Originally Posted by QuilavaKing
                I've heard that some Gays are either against, or don't believe in bisexuality. What's your opinion on it?
                I have never heard of people being against bisexuality as such, but I do understand when people don't believe in it, given the amount of gay people who use coming out as bisexual as a stepping stone to coming out as gay. I do believe bisexuality exists and I have no problem with it whatsoever, but I don't believe that everybody who says they are bisexual actually are - simply because it's so often used as a scapegoat on the highway to homo.
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                  #725    
                Old August 23rd, 2011 (8:56 PM).
                Gothitelle. Gothitelle. is offline
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                  Wait there's people who don't believe in bisexuality? That's a first. :p

                  Anyways, I haven't said it here but lately even with the debates I've had here, I've felt like as if I was attracted to both genders. Some times, mostly guys, most of the time would be girls. To say that I'm either gay or not... well I disagree. I don't think I'm gay at all to be honest. I'm still attracted to guys :p

                  but yeah, that's my story. OH and I can actually use it to say that I'm straight instead of liking both genders. Because there is the normal aspect of it in my case.
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