The Rainbow Connection [LGBTS Club] Page 99

Started by Shining Raichu May 22nd, 2011 5:52 AM
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Esper

California
Seen June 30th, 2018
Posted June 30th, 2018
I'm fairly certain sex is important in psychology and medical surveys and forms, since (arguably) sex defines your physical composition and hence hormones, to some degree personality, etc. Sex is also an important factor in disease, just because you feel like the other gender doesn't mean your immune system works the same.

Whereas I'm sure some children don't change their minds, children develop a lot emotionally and socially around puberty, which could have an impact on their decision.

Hm, I do see your point - however I think they are two separate things:
  • a parent making a decision for a young child, probably trying to save the child later confusion, bullying, etc. By giving the child a sex.
  • a child making a decision for themselves, when they may not fully recognize the repercussions in changing their identity.

A child can seem serious about something, but at the end of a day they are a child and still learning about themselves and life. People develop over time, and whilst they certainly stopped developing socially by the age of 16 or 18, I would say they are in a better position of understanding themselves and what they would like for the future.
Certain medical people should probably know, yes, but I was thinking about stuff like college applications or whatnot. Doctors and the like have to keep things confidential, but other people don't have to.

Yes, people continue to develop mentally and emotionally through puberty, but to say that they must wait until them seems unfair (and terribly problematic for kids who start togo through puberty). One's identity is something that other people shouldn't decide for you. Like was said earlier, kids aren't likely to go all the way through the decision to have hormones and surgery unless they are entirely sure. These are pretty expensive and invasive for something that is not strictly speaking life-threatening so that's why there is a lot of talking with doctors before these more permanent changes get done. Really, most kids will probably just change their hair, clothes, name, and other things they can always change back in the early stages, and they will still (ideally) be talking with professionals. Their parents, too. So I think that these kids will definitely have a greater understanding of the repercussions of opening identifying with their gender.
Female
Seen April 3rd, 2012
Posted April 3rd, 2012
26 posts
11.2 Years
Welcome, JB! I'll add your name to the list now - tell us a bit about yourself! Are you gay, bi, trans, supporter, other?
Sorry about the lack of response, I've been busy with that horrid thing known as college. Anyways, I'm a lesbian. I'm out to my friends and my mom, dad and younger sister, but not to the rest of my family.

Oryx

CoquettishCat

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Posted December 27th, 2014
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As to the brain differences and things, do you know of any papers that say this? I study biology at University so we have quite large databases to search, but all I can find are studies that actually say the complete opposite - that gender dysphoria has no physical signs, and can only be diagnosed through what the person says (from a paper in 2009). I do doubt that brain structure is actually affected - unless it's the cause of hormone fluctuation that people often refer to as causing men to be gay (Although that is yet to be proved as well).
I think you'll find a post I made in another thread a while back interesting, I linked some studies for the exact same reason, in a thread about a 7 year old that's a boy that identifies as a girl.

http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?p=7008244#post7008244

Thanks I'd really appreciate anything you find :) One thing we haven't really mentioned - what about when the parents find out? Before seeing documentaries I often thought the response would be ok->bad, however I have seen and heard of parents who actually embrace such change when their (young) child has come to this conclusion. That's what I meant by it being a hard thing to un-say for a child, especially if the parent has undergone so much effort to facilitate the change.
As far as this, I don't think there's anywhere where a young child says "I feel like a <opposite sex>!" and the parent says "Okay, let's go get you surgery then! You said it once, that's irrevocable!" There are professionals whose job is to diagnose this kind of thing based on the individual, and then the child themselves has the ability to choose the right course of action. And tbh, I'd much prefer it this way than the other way around. I'm not sure of the positives of wishing closed-minded parents that will reject a child for having a different gender identity than their sex onto said child.

Progressive parents still have that bond of wanting what's best for their child, and I'm sure they think beyond "4 year old boy says he feels like a girl, let's go get her surgery now" to the possibility that it's a phase or a meaningless wish. However, if the child continually reiterates this in a way that identifies with a trans attitude, then it's reasonable to believe what the child is saying.


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889 posts
17.8 Years
As far as gender issues go, I've heard of kids who transitioned at the age of 12 or earlier, because ever since they were born they were functioning like the opposite gender, crying because they were confused, hated their bodies at an age where that's usually not possible, etc. That's a lot of proof, to me, that you don't have to be 18 before you're certain. I've had gender issues nearly my whole life too, and though it wasn't to the extent that I just mentioned, I knew something was off. Granted, now days I'm more comfortable acknowledging that I'm female, though I'm still pretty boyish, and in my case some of that was sexuality issues and not entirely gender related, but I still remember what it was like when I younger. I'm convinced that young kids can know, and sometimes the parents are certain as well.

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Mana

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Posted August 18th, 2021
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14.3 Years

Interestingly thing, transgirls taking polyjuice pills will generally fall under the female statistics for many maladies; for example, prostate cancer is almost unheard of in transgirls, but breast cancer levels are elevated to approximately the same risk levels as genetic girls. Things like skin cancer, heart disease, diabetes, et cetera; are all likewise impacted by the change in hormones due to the far-reaching ramifications this has on even the smallest thing ~ like sugar absorption.
That is true :) most diseases are affected by hormones, but I was thinking more genetic diseases carried on the Y, and things that generally are caused by the malfunction of a Y chromosome (or lack of I suppose :S).



I think you'll find a post I made in another thread a while back interesting, I linked some studies for the exact same reason, in a thread about a 7 year old that's a boy that identifies as a girl.

http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?p=7008244#post7008244

As far as this, I don't think there's anywhere where a young child says "I feel like a <opposite sex>!" and the parent says "Okay, let's go get you surgery then! You said it once, that's irrevocable!" There are professionals whose job is to diagnose this kind of thing based on the individual, and then the child themselves has the ability to choose the right course of action. And tbh, I'd much prefer it this way than the other way around. I'm not sure of the positives of wishing closed-minded parents that will reject a child for having a different gender identity than their sex onto said child.

Progressive parents still have that bond of wanting what's best for their child, and I'm sure they think beyond "4 year old boy says he feels like a girl, let's go get her surgery now" to the possibility that it's a phase or a meaningless wish. However, if the child continually reiterates this in a way that identifies with a trans attitude, then it's reasonable to believe what the child is saying.
Thank you for those links! Just what I was looking for, very insightful. It's a shame there isn't much more on the topic - although I guess that's probably due to ethical issues and not wanting to inadvertently upset people.

As far as gender issues go, I've heard of kids who transitioned at the age of 12 or earlier, because ever since they were born they were functioning like the opposite gender, crying because they were confused, hated their bodies at an age where that's usually not possible, etc. That's a lot of proof, to me, that you don't have to be 18 before you're certain. I've had gender issues nearly my whole life too, and though it wasn't to the extent that I just mentioned, I knew something was off. Granted, now days I'm more comfortable acknowledging that I'm female, though I'm still pretty boyish, and in my case some of that was sexuality issues and not entirely gender related, but I still remember what it was like when I younger. I'm convinced that young kids can know, and sometimes the parents are certain as well.
This kind of full circles back my point though - you are now comfortable with your gender, but however long ago you weren't. If you hadn't had this time to find yourself and had instead seeked to fix the problem with hormones or surgery, how do you think you would be now? I understand there are varying levels of 'confusion', no doubt, and going through puberty could make the ordeal worse in many respects - but on the flip side what if puberty, experimentation, generally getting to that age where you learn a lot about yourself and others, actually made you feel comfortable anyway.


---

I'm gonna kick the ball off with another topic as well: Do you think LGBT individuals are well represented in television and film?

I have noticed an increase in Gay and Lesbian people, especially in reality TV shows ('Come Dine With Me', 'Jeremy Kyle' - Don't judge, I'm a student :( ) however they are often rather stereotypical - generally either camp men or 'butch' women. I have no doubt there are people on the TV who don't fit these stereotypes but they don't really seem to announce themselves as clearly.

With regards to TV characters I don't really watch anything frequently enough to know.

I did see the film "The Best Exotic Marigold Resort" last week. It was essentially a middle-aged comedy however it had a very realistic, and very surprising, gay character in it - who none of the audience or the other characters picked up on. When the big reveal was made the actor pulled it off with such emotion - and the reunion scene with his boyfriend from 40 years ago was tearworthy. This is the kind of gay character that I think should be working it's way up in the tv/film industry - normal men/women who just happen to like members of the same sex.

Over here in the UK we had a program called 'Transsexual Summer' which sounds terrible at first but it was actually very insightful. It followed a group of trans people at different stages of transitioning, helping each other deal with the problems they face, and helping them to make friends with people who understand their situation. There were many heartwarming moments within the group and with the locals who got to know them, generally I think it was a great eye-opener for myself and the public. I think what helped was it didn't just give the 'stereotypical' trans, man in a dress, kind of people. They were all real people, with different reasoning and personalities, and much easier to relate to. That being said, I don't think I have seen any trans characters in anything.

What do you guys think?

Esper

California
Seen June 30th, 2018
Posted June 30th, 2018
If you hadn't had this time to find yourself and had instead seeked to fix the problem with hormones or surgery, how do you think you would be now?
I know this wasn't directed to me, but I just want to say that if there is someone for whom surgery and hormones aren't necessary for them to feel comfortable they won't go through with surgery and hormones. Somewhere along the way they would find a place where they are comfortable. You don't just jump into surgery. You can't. It's literally the last step you can take. No doctors are going to help you with that unless you're totally sure.

EGKangaroo

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Posted September 9th, 2013
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11.2 Years
I'm trying to recall the name of a movie I once saw, which was about some girl who died in a car accident and her mother has to cope with it by communicating with some of the girl's friends, and she finds out stuff about her past. I really can't figure out the name anymore and desperately punching in random keywords on google and hoping for the best doesn't seem to help for some reason. Anyway, there were two gay characters in it who were in a relationship with each other. They managed to pull of the roles rather good. Neither were overly flamboyant or anything.

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I watched My Transsexual Summer. It was sickening. I follow all of the participants online and they all complained about the show, it didn't show their backgrounds and most of it was showing surgery, girls putting on make-up, and male genitalia.

Two of the trans men were made into background people as their stories weren't heart wrenching enough or interesting enough and it didn't air most of the actual good things which would've educated and opened the eyes of viewers.

Oh and they didn't get paid.
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Oregon
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Posted April 29th, 2015
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14.2 Years
I don't know, I haven't ever really watched any American tv/movies that have Gay characters in them... but in most of the anime I watch, they tend to act like it's a really happy, pure thing. They never really talk about either character being gay, or what society thinks about it.

Esper

California
Seen June 30th, 2018
Posted June 30th, 2018
I watched My Transsexual Summer. It was sickening. I follow all of the participants online and they all complained about the show, it didn't show their backgrounds and most of it was showing surgery, girls putting on make-up, and male genitalia.

Two of the trans men were made into background people as their stories weren't heart wrenching enough or interesting enough and it didn't air most of the actual good things which would've educated and opened the eyes of viewers.

Oh and they didn't get paid.
I'm really saddened to hear that such an exploitative thing as this has happened. Saddened and angered. I'd sort of heard about this show existing, but I live in the US so it wasn't something that anyone else would have heard about and I guess it slipped my mind. I'm glad I didn't pursue it now hearing about what it's like.

Mana

Age 31
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UK
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Posted August 18th, 2021
10,075 posts
14.3 Years
I watched My Transsexual Summer. It was sickening. I follow all of the participants online and they all complained about the show, it didn't show their backgrounds and most of it was showing surgery, girls putting on make-up, and male genitalia.

Two of the trans men were made into background people as their stories weren't heart wrenching enough or interesting enough and it didn't air most of the actual good things which would've educated and opened the eyes of viewers.

Oh and they didn't get paid.
Don't mean to jump the gun but 'sickening' is possibly going too far.

The documentary wasn't some definitive transsexual show, no doubt it will be followed by more in the future, and to be quite frank it did serve it's purpose well.

Bearing in mind the majority of channel 4's audience will never have experienced transgender people at all in their lives, it was a great start and a good introduction to transsexuals. It may not be perfect, but when is any show perfect. The show focused on 'easier' topics to follow, and more humorous aspect for sure - they need to keep people entertained to a degree to keep them watching through the more emotional and informative sections. Sure they could have shown talks about gender binary, or things like 'two spirit' and such in the show - but how much of that would your average viewer understand without spending a whole episode explaining it, really?

As to them not being paid, I was only aware of that from reading Max's blog after. However, realistically - they signed up to the show, they should have questioned their payment and such and why it wasn't mentioned in the contract before hand. That's how the world works really. It's unfortunate sure but it's not because they have been mistreated for being trans, which is what you seem to be making out.

Overall I think you're expecting far too much, for what it was I think it painted a good picture of trans people, without alienating them or laughing at their expense. It also opened the door to future, deeper documentaries which seems to be what you want.

U.Flame

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14.9 Years
Sorry I've been inactive for a while. I've been talking with a friend about hints in MLP that Rainbow Dash being a lesbian. It could be coincidense. But if it isn't, I think it's great that a kid's show would have that. Even if it's subliminal. What do you guys think? Is it a good idea for a kid's show to have homosexuality?
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EGKangaroo

Tail-bumps for all 'roolovers!

Age 27
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the Netherlands
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Posted September 9th, 2013
398 posts
11.2 Years
Meh, beats me. I know a lot of kids shows that have all these rumours about the characters being gay. Not even a show as innocent as Sesame Street escapes the crackpot theorists who claim Bert and Ernie are homosexual partners. The thing is, children won't ever notice these kinds of signals. They just see two guys who happen to live in the same house as best friends, or brothers or something. It's the elders (and even then, only a handful) who go berserk over it because they think it's giving their children gay.

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Oregon
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Posted April 29th, 2015
3,077 posts
14.2 Years
Spongebob is the gayest person on TV. Just saying. lol :P

It's fairly pointless honestly. Kids will never understand subtle hints, and if even those are pissing off parents, then there's no way they'll be able to have actual Gay characters.

EGKangaroo

Tail-bumps for all 'roolovers!

Age 27
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the Netherlands
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Posted September 9th, 2013
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11.2 Years
Well, one thing I really think was also a good show that very subtly touched such a subject was Pinky & the Brain with Pharfignewton. Sure Pharfignewton was a mare, but I just thought it was great how he always wanted people to be more tolerant everytime they pointed out he was a mouse and pharfignewton was a mare. The entire thing was all very analogous to just about any other taboo form of romance in the world, including homosexual relationships; interracial relationships, which are still looked down upon by some extreme racists; etcetera.

Shining Raichu

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Not even a show as innocent as Sesame Street escapes the crackpot theorists who claim Bert and Ernie are homosexual partners.
Uh, excuse me, crackpot theorists? Bert and Ernie are in love. Their love is deep and it's real and how dare you deny them the recognition it deserves.
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EGKangaroo

Tail-bumps for all 'roolovers!

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Posted September 9th, 2013
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Uh, excuse me, crackpot theorists? Bert and Ernie are in love. Their love is deep and it's real and how dare you deny them the recognition it deserves.
Haha, I am sorry. Yeah, sure, they love each other. But I am just saying, it's not that it's never explicitly told whether they are homosexual partners or brothers, or just plain best friends. In this country at least, the subject only really comes up in the form of complaints coming from Christian people saying it sends too many gay signals to their children. They can definitely bicker sometimes like a married couple.

Shining Raichu

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And as we all know, bickering is a gateway activity; it may lead to harder stuff like girly slap-fights or homoeroticism :P

Screw those wingnuts, if they can find a way to ruin Sesame Street they can find a way to ruin anything - and it's never for lack of trying when they can't. But I will fight them to the death on this one; Bert and Ernie are in a committed relationship that is probably happier than theirs will ever be.
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U.Flame

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I think if the hints are real and not misinterpretations then it's beautiful that kid's shows have gay characters. My mom's gaydar certainly does go off more the more she sees Rainbow Dash episodes. ^_^
The more you learn about something, the more you realize just how much you don't know. I've shelved my more ambitious ideas in favor of smaller, more feasible projects and contributions. While I still have an ongoing project, and still intend to experiment with improving Gen 3's multiplayer, it's been much less stressful doing smaller things, like entries for Anthroyd's MAGM contests.

Of which you can check out here:
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Esper

California
Seen June 30th, 2018
Posted June 30th, 2018
People everywhere just have their gaydar turned up at the moment, and if they're not okay with gay people it's just so they can be "on the watch" for gayness slipping its way in secretly to the children's minds.

Yoshikko

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Posted February 6th, 2020
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11.8 Years
People everywhere just have their gaydar turned up at the moment, and if they're not okay with gay people it's just so they can be "on the watch" for gayness slipping its way in secretly to the children's minds.

I don't really have a problem with that it's like in kid's shows, it's the way it's in, it's sort of mocked. I'm just butting in this convo so I don't know if what I'm saying makes sense in regards to the topic hahah but I saw the pics and wanted to say it anyway.

Oryx

CoquettishCat

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Posted December 27th, 2014
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And as we all know, bickering is a gateway activity; it may lead to harder stuff like girly slap-fights or homoeroticism :P

Screw those wingnuts, if they can find a way to ruin Sesame Street they can find a way to ruin anything - and it's never for lack of trying when they can't. But I will fight them to the death on this one; Bert and Ernie are in a committed relationship that is probably happier than theirs will ever be.
Sesame Street has said specifically that they are puppets and therefore cannot have a sexual attraction towards either men or women, as none of the puppets are men or women themselves.

Bert and Ernie are best friends. They were created to teach preschoolers that people can be good friends with those who are very different from themselves. Even though they are identified as male characters and possess many human traits and characteristics... they remain puppets, and do not have a sexual orientation.
Just saying. :P Have you seen the spoof in Avenue Q of them?


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Keiran

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Posted July 25th, 2018
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12.1 Years
What do you guys think? Is it a good idea for a kid's show to have homosexuality?
I'd much rather have something gay shoved down my throat if it means the show isn't completely regurgitated content.

I think it's better than a good idea, because not only does it introduce diversity but also builds acceptance for those diverse characteristics at young ages where it's most effective by far. I think it's pretty clear to all of us that hatred and bigotry are spawns of ignorance and anyone who has a problem with diverse traits in media are only afraid to combat their own inner turmoil and need to stop hindering decent human beings.

*hasn't read everyones reply to this, sorry if I'm trite*
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Shining Raichu

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What I'm interested to know is whether it's ever explicitly stated that that Teletubby is male. Because it seems to me that could just be a girl carrying a purse. :/



Sesame Street has said specifically that they are puppets and therefore cannot have a sexual attraction towards either men or women, as none of the puppets are men or women themselves.
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