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Old September 15th, 2011 (1:22 AM).
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This thought has plagued my mind alot over the last few generations of pokemon and i feel i need some views of others to ease my mind. The topic at matter is naturally competitive battling(this forum duuuu!) and how i feel things like shoddy and pokesav maybe ruined the competitive field for wifi users and people who like to grind out items, natures and ivs. To name a few: 'battle frontier items(takes alot of time) and pickup items that require lvl 81+ meowth etc'(i've raised 3 of these this gen to find 2 leftovers).
I personally have used shoddy a little bit in the past and what i found is that its not that enjoyable compared to breeding your own pokemon and using them in battle. When breeding/catching your own it feels like the hard work of gaining decent ivs and breeding for the right nature actually brings alot more satisfaction to a victory and makes you work harder in the future when a defeat occurs. What i am frustrated with is that i notice more and more that in wifi battles people are using a full team of shinies with what i can only guess are max iv'd pokemon. Obviously getting both in the game is a very possible task, but the amount of time and effort required just shows me they have been pokesav'd. On this note i was just wondering if anyone knew of a community that played the games for what they actually we're and had battles to a legit standard.
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Old September 16th, 2011 (9:23 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gee2k8 View Post
This thought has plagued my mind alot over the last few generations of pokemon and i feel i need some views of others to ease my mind. The topic at matter is naturally competitive battling(this forum duuuu!) and how i feel things like shoddy and pokesav maybe ruined the competitive field for wifi users and people who like to grind out items, natures and ivs. To name a few: 'battle frontier items(takes alot of time) and pickup items that require lvl 81+ meowth etc'(i've raised 3 of these this gen to find 2 leftovers).
I personally have used shoddy a little bit in the past and what i found is that its not that enjoyable compared to breeding your own pokemon and using them in battle. When breeding/catching your own it feels like the hard work of gaining decent ivs and breeding for the right nature actually brings alot more satisfaction to a victory and makes you work harder in the future when a defeat occurs. What i am frustrated with is that i notice more and more that in wifi battles people are using a full team of shinies with what i can only guess are max iv'd pokemon. Obviously getting both in the game is a very possible task, but the amount of time and effort required just shows me they have been pokesav'd. On this note i was just wondering if anyone knew of a community that played the games for what they actually we're and had battles to a legit standard.
Dude, do you even know what simulation means? And some people can't afford the games you know, and their only resort is via a battle simulator like [Pokemon Online.

If you didn't notice, we also have a Wi-Fi battling community here, where most people do everything legit. And unlike you, not everyone has the time to breed and EV their Pokemon so they usually resort to trading or by the use of editing softwares, which as long as everything looks legit (meaning the Pokemon has the right amount EVs, knows move that the Pokemon naturally knows et cetera) is kind of legit in its own sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forever View Post
Sooo Karpman said I should ask here ;x

Since I was enjoying writing the comments on that battle log I was thinking how about an event where you get some good and some not so good battlers together to battle in like "unusual" teams and post the logs, and get members to write comments to those logs and see who can make the most interesting battle log of the battles w/ emblem rewards or something?

What are you guys thoughts on it?
First, this would be a great event! Second, I didn't know what it really meant until you explained it to me in the irc. ;;

But yeah, as long is the unusual team isn't as unusual like, say, 6 Magikarp vs 6 Feebas, then yeah I'd be all up for it.
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Old September 16th, 2011 (9:37 PM).
.Aero .Aero is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gee2k8 View Post
This thought has plagued my mind alot over the last few generations of pokemon and i feel i need some views of others to ease my mind. The topic at matter is naturally competitive battling(this forum duuuu!) and how i feel things like shoddy and pokesav maybe ruined the competitive field for wifi users and people who like to grind out items, natures and ivs. To name a few: 'battle frontier items(takes alot of time) and pickup items that require lvl 81+ meowth etc'(i've raised 3 of these this gen to find 2 leftovers).
I personally have used shoddy a little bit in the past and what i found is that its not that enjoyable compared to breeding your own pokemon and using them in battle. When breeding/catching your own it feels like the hard work of gaining decent ivs and breeding for the right nature actually brings alot more satisfaction to a victory and makes you work harder in the future when a defeat occurs. What i am frustrated with is that i notice more and more that in wifi battles people are using a full team of shinies with what i can only guess are max iv'd pokemon. Obviously getting both in the game is a very possible task, but the amount of time and effort required just shows me they have been pokesav'd. On this note i was just wondering if anyone knew of a community that played the games for what they actually we're and had battles to a legit standard.
I honestly feel that Pokesav is dropping off the scene. RNG, which is a perfectly legal method of obtaining pokemon, offers a very easy way of getting shiny pokemon with perfect IVs. All it takes is a small program on the computer that can tell you at what times these pokemon will appear, and then some syncing with your DS clock on your part. It's not hard at all, and the majority of the pokemon wifi community views it as acceptable. It still takes work, as you'll have to EV the pokemon yourself and get correct moves and such, but it takes out that whole chance thing and puts more emphasis on training.

As for simulators, they aren't connected to Wifi in any way, aside from tier selection (which is a good thing in all honesty). What happens in Pokemon Online's (and Shoddy's in the past) metagame does not affect that of Wifi's. It's just natural for Wifi's metagame to evolve at a slower rate as well due to the fact that people don't want to constantly want to train new pokemon just to fit the metagame.

Regardless of your position on simulators, there is are quite a few positive aspects of them. One, as stated by Zeffy, is that they are free and offer ways for those who can't afford the games / DSs to play pokemon with other people easily. Another thing they do is save time. Say what you will, but if you think saving time is a bad thing, I can't imagine the amount of patience you have.

Takes this scenario for instance: I once made a team in Wifi, in which I decided to use Mismagius instead of Gengar on my team because she had Pain Split and I felt that was a selling point on her. Don't get me wrong, Mismagius is a good pokemon, but for the job I wanted her to do, Gengar was much more suitable. After training Mismagius, I realized she wasn't working with the team. I just basically wasted my time breeding, EV training, and getting the right moveset / item for her only to find out that she wasn't good enough for my team. Most teams however will require more tweaking than just one pokemon to be exceptional. Just imagine having to train over a dozen pokemon for just one team because you wanted to experiment.

Pokemon Online lets you do just that in mere minutes: experiment. It's a time saver and people who play Pokemon Online don't necessarily ditch Wifi. They like to test teams on the simulator, figure out what works, and perfect their team before spending time on it for Wifi. In which case, the majority of this community uses RNG for IVs, Nature, and Shininess, and then EV train and get moveset in a completely legitimate way. I can't imagine Pokesav is gone entirely, because I know it's not, but it's drastically lost popularity with how easy RNG is and the fact that it's accepted by the majority of the community as legal.

tl;dr - RNG is more popular than Pokesav now; Simulators are awesome because they can save time for experimenting with teams.
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Old September 17th, 2011 (3:17 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forever View Post
Sooo Karpman said I should ask here ;x

Since I was enjoying writing the comments on that battle log I was thinking how about an event where you get some good and some not so good battlers together to battle in like "unusual" teams and post the logs of the battles without comments or anything, and get members to write commentaries on the battles and see who can make the most interesting battle log of the battles w/ emblem rewards or something?

What are you guys thoughts on it?
...I think it's an interesting idea but it's really not that easy to come up with a log if you weren't playing in it. How else can you expect to figure out what was going through the player's head?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gee2k8 View Post
This thought has plagued my mind alot over the last few generations of pokemon and i feel i need some views of others to ease my mind. The topic at matter is naturally competitive battling(this forum duuuu!) and how i feel things like shoddy and pokesav maybe ruined the competitive field for wifi users and people who like to grind out items, natures and ivs. To name a few: 'battle frontier items(takes alot of time) and pickup items that require lvl 81+ meowth etc'(i've raised 3 of these this gen to find 2 leftovers).
I personally have used shoddy a little bit in the past and what i found is that its not that enjoyable compared to breeding your own pokemon and using them in battle. When breeding/catching your own it feels like the hard work of gaining decent ivs and breeding for the right nature actually brings alot more satisfaction to a victory and makes you work harder in the future when a defeat occurs. What i am frustrated with is that i notice more and more that in wifi battles people are using a full team of shinies with what i can only guess are max iv'd pokemon. Obviously getting both in the game is a very possible task, but the amount of time and effort required just shows me they have been pokesav'd. On this note i was just wondering if anyone knew of a community that played the games for what they actually we're and had battles to a legit standard.
What Aero said about RNG holds true for most things. I don't play Wi-Fi, but iirc Nintendo doesn't even allow PokeSav'd 'mons on Wi-Fi battles anymore. All the Pokemon you see while playing in B/W are legit, and you don't have to worry about that.

And remember that not everyone is pleased with training their own Pokemon and you don't have to get upset with people about this. There will always be those people who prefer training up their own, but as options expand into things like RNG and battling online using a simulator (which is something I do all the time), people will take those other options for ease of effort or whatever. This isn't the death of Wi-Fi or anything like that and if you find playing your game preferable to playing on PO (yeah it's a different program now; you might like it more than shoddy) then that's awesome! Keep playing your game. But other people like to play on simulators and that's that.
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Old September 19th, 2011 (8:00 PM).
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I thought that Nintendo does allow you to use Sav/Gen'd mons over wifi, but just doesn't allow you to post the log online. If you meant random match up, I guess thats true. But RM is just "Ohai der, I use bulky pokemon with OHKO moves and spam them until they work." And I realize there are ways to counter that, its just.. I'm so acclimated to the rules and regulations of standard OU and UU that I can't battle without them. That sounds pathetic I know. =(
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Old September 20th, 2011 (12:52 PM).
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Why don't more people play LC :[
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Old September 20th, 2011 (1:49 PM).
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I was considering trying LC, I'd probably be more motivated if someone hosted a Little Cup Event/Tour here.
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Old September 20th, 2011 (2:59 PM).
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It's hard to get other people into new metagames here. :(
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Old September 29th, 2011 (10:49 AM).
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Double posting for coolness and to kick life back into this dead thread. Magic Guard Alakazam and Prankster Sableye were just released. Thoughts on their impact?
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Old September 29th, 2011 (10:56 AM).
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They'll be gimmicks to say the least. At least now Alakazam can use the focus sash better. I mean, I'm sure they'll do fine in lower tier gameplay, but I can't see them being OU mons. Especially Sableye with it's bad stats (just because it has prankster does make it awesome, I do like his design though, and will always love him as a Pokemon).
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Old September 29th, 2011 (11:15 AM).
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Sableye manhandles stall that doesn't have Heatran, really. I don't think either are gimmicks at all. Alakazam outspeeds the vast majority of the tier and has a huge base SpA with solid coverage with Psychic/shock and Shadow Ball/Focus Blast. I don't think they'll be gimmicks at all, and both will almost assuredly be OU (low OU, perhaps, but OU nonetheless). In DW OU Alakazam is used more than Latios and Sableye is mid-tier OU.
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Old September 29th, 2011 (11:39 AM).
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I don't see Alakazam being that good, Magic Guard is cute and all, but it seems like a Gengar/Reuniclus hybrid that isn't as effective as either one. Sableye will definitely be interesting, though, I think I'll try and use it.
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Old September 29th, 2011 (11:51 AM).
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I'd also like to say that Tail glow Volbeat with prankster is released.
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Old September 29th, 2011 (12:14 PM).
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I'm just posting to say that Sableye is outclassed by Taunt + WoW Mew. Prankster sounds cool and everything, but it doesn't make up for Sableye's awful defenses.
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Old September 29th, 2011 (1:39 PM).
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I'm kind of dissapointed that everyone's shoving Sableye away and saying it "sucks" and is "outclassed".

Sableye is a lot worse on paper than it actually is in competitive.

Priority will-o-wisp is great, it allows you to cripple threats that you wouldnt be able to with Mew (SEE: +2 Excadrill, +2 Landorus, +2 Terrakion). Recover with priority is great, it allows you to outstall many threats. Foul Play is another neat move which lets you actually hurt something.

Myself, I'd rather use Mew than Sableye, but that doesn't mean that Sableye isn't viable in OU; it'll probably end up in UU but its not something to just brush aside.

Oh, and Erufuun with sub sucks, you're like instantly forced out by everything; use U-turn instead.


Zam is pretty cool, but I'd rather use OTR Reuniclus, though Zam shouldn't be underestimated.
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Old September 30th, 2011 (2:11 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karpman View Post
I don't see Alakazam being that good, Magic Guard is cute and all, but it seems like a Gengar/Reuniclus hybrid that isn't as effective as either one. Sableye will definitely be interesting, though, I think I'll try and use it.
I think it'll be just fine. Considering it's faster and stronger than Gengar with Magic Guard... seems like it's only got the positive parts of each, lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cycle View Post
I'd also like to say that Tail glow Volbeat with prankster is released.
Oh yeah, forgot. That'll be interesting for hardcore BP teams but beyond that I don't think it'll be used very much at all (at least, with any effectiveness).

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Originally Posted by irkanator View Post
I'm just posting to say that Sableye is outclassed by Taunt + WoW Mew. Prankster sounds cool and everything, but it doesn't make up for Sableye's awful defenses.
It's not. Cycle covered it though.

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Well, in my honest opinion, I'm going to go with the majority that think that Sableye won't really survive in OU. Sure, it's interesting, but mons like deoxys-s will be in everyway(and Erufuun, to say the least) superior to Sableye. It's kind of a risk to even have it in the first place. At least Erufuun has a chance with Sub Cotton guard, but what really can Sableye do? Just out of curiosity, really. .__.;

And Alakazam has never really struck me as anything special. I will say however, that if used properly, it can turn into a real threat, especially since Magic Guard(afaik) prevents things like Toxic and WoW and stuff like that, right?

Though, to be really fair, I'd like to see Clefable be a better Alakazam. It already has Magic Guard. At least make it better in some way, shape or form. ><; It already has the defenses, now I'm just concerned about the offenses. If only it wasn't slow. :(
Erufuun is radically different from Sableye and imo considerably worse. Deoxys-S is not superior at all lol, it's entirely different. Why is it a risk to have it? It can Taunt/W-o-W/Recover with priority. I've seen sets where you spam Swagger and W-o-W and use Foul Play to attack them with their own Attack stat (boosted by Swagger but cut by W-o-W). You can be imaginative. TBH I'd like to use the last moveslot for Knock Off, knocking off the items of whatever tries to switch in and beat it.

Clefable =/= Alakazam in any way, lool. :(
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Old September 30th, 2011 (3:00 AM).
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imma be a fool and say I didn't realise Alakazam wasn't released and used it before lool.

But! With LO as well as really high spA and good speed & nature + that works in spA's favour (or just leaving it at LO & nature working in the favour of speed) it works well imo w/ recover etc :x
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Old September 30th, 2011 (11:34 AM).
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Hey guys, I was laddering on smogon LC ladder and I finally hit 1.
(15:33:28) *** Your rank in Standard LC is 1/1493 [1258 points / 59 battles]!
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Old September 30th, 2011 (11:38 AM).
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Hey guys, I was laddering on smogon LC ladder and I finally hit 1.
(15:33:28) *** Your rank in Standard LC is 1/1493 [1258 points / 59 battles]!
Nice job, son. I signed up for LC Tutoring at Smogon, so hopefully I'll be able to get good at LC and reach your level.
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Old September 30th, 2011 (11:53 AM).
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Nice job, son. I signed up for LC Tutoring at Smogon, so hopefully I'll be able to get good at LC and reach your level.
Haha, sounds good.

The LC ladder isn't that hard to climb, it takes about 3 battles to reach the first page (lol), but then the battles get harder and you'll probably hover around the same spot for a few days. I started playing LC a few weeks back with this team (which is also my first) and stayed around #8-#10 for a week or so lol.
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Old September 30th, 2011 (12:04 PM).
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To me, it's just like Alakazam except better defenses, and worse spa atk and speed.

But that's just me.
That's like saying Jirachi is like Blissey, since they share an ability and are bulky in the areas of Special Defense and HP, although Jirachi is much more versatile and can bring a much better offensive presence to the table.
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Old October 1st, 2011 (5:31 PM).
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MH Sableye is annoying as hell to play when you're using stall. You essentially need Heatran or Politoed to beat it lol. :/ I guess Poison heal Gliscor would work too as it cant be burned but you can only EQ it ?

LO Sub Zam and Sash MG zam are both awesome and arent scarftar bait because its faster lol :]
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Old October 6th, 2011 (5:55 PM). Edited October 6th, 2011 by champagnepapi.
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Zam is great, and the LO+3 Attacks is probably my favorite set, since Calm Mind is essentially an inferior Reuniclus.

Anyhow:

FML

So yeah, going off of the above replay, what was the worst hax you've ever had. By worst, it can be whatever just made you rage, whether it be continuous and statistically ridiculous luck, or luck causing you to lose an important match or good game.
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Old October 6th, 2011 (6:24 PM).
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Quote:
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Zam is great, and the LO+3 Attacks is probably my favorite set, since Calm Mind is essentially an inferior Reuniclus.

Anyhow:

FML

So yeah, going off of the above replay, what was the worst hax you've ever had. By worst, it can be whatever just made you rage, whether it be continuous and statistically ridiculous luck, or luck causing you to lose an important match or good game.
I don't have the replay, but I was playing against a Chandelure, I sent in my Tyranitar, overheat crits, and I think whatever it won't penetrate through me even with a crit, and the next turn overheat critted again.

Tyranitar is not a Chandelure counter.
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Old October 6th, 2011 (7:48 PM).
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Not sure if this is the right place to put this, but the tier lists have been updated: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3886607&postcount=3

Some Pokemon rose a tier or two, while others dropped down. For instance, Gastrodon was in RU, but it jumped up to OU (I was surprised by this, and after a bit of research, it was Storm Drain that made Gastrodon viable enough for OU). Tier drops include: Darmanitan, Machamp, Whimsicott, Porygon2, Hippowdon, Tornadus and Chandelure from OU to UU.

I apologize if I got this information mixed up; I just thought it would be worth sharing.
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