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Old December 21st, 2004 (5:16 PM). Edited December 21st, 2004 by Nekomajo Asunya.
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Strawberry Delcatty Strawberry Delcatty is offline
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EDIT: I always keep forgetting to add this. NO SUBSTITUTE OR ANYTHING REVOLVING AROUND IT PLEASE.

Persian (M) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Limber
EVs: 129 HP / 129 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Charm
- Return
- Shadow Ball
- Toxic
I love Persian. My non-theme teams have at least either a Persian or Delcatty.

Aggron (M) @ Ganlon Berry
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 6 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Aerial Ace
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Thunder Wave
I think I covered everything on Aggron. Thunder Wave to slow down opponents, and attack with one of the three above moves.

Raichu (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Static
EVs: 255 HP / 255 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Brick Break
- Sweet Kiss
- Thunderbolt
- Wish
When Thunderbolt/Static does its job of paralysis, Sweet Kiss away. Wish to recover when necessary.

Breloom (F) @ Salac Berry
Trait: Effect Spore
EVs: 255 Atk / 255 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bulk Up
- HP Ghost/Rock
- Mach Punch
- Spore
I have Mach Punch so after Bulk Up, I can use the power right away. I'm choosing between HP Rock for Flyers or HP Ghost for Psychics.

Lapras (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 129 SAtk / 129 SDef
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Attract
- Confuse Ray
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
Ice Beam for STAB, but I'm thinking to dump it for Surf.

Ninetales (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 129 HP / 129 SAtk / 252 SDef
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Grudge
- Heat Wave
- Safeguard
- Will-O-Wisp
I like Grudge. If Ninetales get KO'd, the opponent's best move becomes worthless.
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Old December 21st, 2004 (5:32 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nekomajo Asunya
Persian (M) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Limber
EVs: 129 HP / 129 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Charm
- Return
- Shadow Ball
- Toxic
I love Persian. My non-theme teams have at least either a Persian or Delcatty.

i dont know a persian set but have fake out

Aggron (M) @ Ganlon Berry
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 6 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Aerial Ace
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Thunder Wave
I think I covered everything on Aggron. Thunder Wave to slow down opponents, and attack with one of the three above moves.

sub, focus punch, rock slide/earthquake, rockslide/earthquake/hp ghost/fire blast/flamethrower or something along those lines... if you dont use Fb/t then use adamant nature... 129 sp attack evs if you are using fb/t; leftovers

Raichu (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Static
EVs: 255 HP / 255 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Brick Break
- Sweet Kiss
- Thunderbolt
- Wish
When Thunderbolt/Static does its job of paralysis, Sweet Kiss away. Wish to recover when necessary.

sub, t wave, t bolt, surf... you wasted 6 evs cuz 252 is the max... 252 sp attack, 252 speed, 6 hp; timid nature

Breloom (F) @ Salac Berry
Trait: Effect Spore
EVs: 255 Atk / 255 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bulk Up
- HP Ghost/Rock
- Mach Punch
- Spore
I have Mach Punch so after Bulk Up, I can use the power right away. I'm choosing between HP Rock for Flyers or HP Ghost for Psychics.

s dance > bulk up... if you have s dance or keep bulk up, youll need sub somewhere... other wise spore is useless; again you wated 6 evs

Lapras (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 129 SAtk / 129 SDef
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Attract
- Confuse Ray
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
Ice Beam for STAB, but I'm thinking to dump it for Surf.

tbolt > attract, calm/bold nature; some def evs from sp attack is an option

Ninetales (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 129 HP / 129 SAtk / 252 SDef
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Grudge
- Heat Wave
- Safeguard
- Will-O-Wisp
I like Grudge. If Ninetales get KO'd, the opponent's best move becomes worthless.

wow, c ray, attract, flamethrower... hope your opponent doesnt have sub; max speed and timid nature
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Old December 21st, 2004 (6:52 PM).
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He said he didn't want to use sub or anything that revolves around it.

Lapras:I'd take Surf over attract

Raichu:If you put 255/255 your wasting EVs as Klducks said, so, 252 Sp. attack, 252 Speed, 6 HP, and OA over Brick Break. If you want you could put T-wave over Sweet Kiss.
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Old December 21st, 2004 (10:19 PM).
Vagabond Aeon Vagabond Aeon is offline
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REALLY bad idea not using Substitute. Seriously, what do you have against it? Sigh... lemme see here...

Persian: Needs Hypnosis. Persian has the fastest Sleep move in the game off 115 base speed, but watch out for that 60% crapshoot. Fake Out sounds interesting too. Return/Shadow Ball/Hypnosis, for the fourth move, Iron Tail or HP Fighting.

Aggron: I'm thinking a CB set (Rock Slide/Earthquake/Double Edge/Iron Tail or HP Steel) would work best here.

Raichu: use klducks suggestion.

Breloom: Without Sub you're screwed. Can't help you here.

Lapras: Surf/Tbolt/Ice Beam/whatever

Ninetales: le sigh... just use klducks suggestion. HP Grass is an option for Waters/Rocks/Grounds over Attract, but don't count on it working.

Good luck.
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Old December 21st, 2004 (11:15 PM).
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Toothache Toothache is offline
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[email protected] Berry
EV: 252 Speed, 252 Att, 6 Def
Nature: + Speed, - Sp Att
Fake Out
Hypnosis
Shadow Ball
Return

People underestimate the speed of Persian, so outspeed those Gengar and frighten them!
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Old December 22nd, 2004 (2:13 AM).
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What do you have against substitute? It's not an Uber move or anything. If anything, it's just good. Alot of pokemon wouldn't work well without substitute. Aggron is an example. Substitute lets it set up against something that might kill it in one hit, when the opponent switches into it. Opponent sent out Snorlax. You used sub. Snorlax used sub, and you focus punch. You do so till you win. What's so bad about sub?
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Old December 22nd, 2004 (2:46 AM).
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If you have problems fighting against opponents who use Substitute, as I did for a while, then you need multi-hit moves on your Pokemon. Something like Rock Blast (anti-Ninjask), Bonemerang (anti-Subpunching Tyranitar/Aggron/Rhydon, and Jolteon), Beat Up (if you want to scare Blissey), Double Kick (anti-Sublax). The Substitute dies on the first attack of these moves, while the second and subsequent ones does damage to the opponent.
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Old December 22nd, 2004 (2:50 AM).
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Strawberry Delcatty Strawberry Delcatty is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phlemingo
What do you have against substitute? It's not an Uber move or anything.
I just feel that Substitute doesn't suit me. Plus I felt that it was cheap. I vaguely recall a few times were people were complaining about it and some NetBattlers not wanting to deal with them.
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Old December 22nd, 2004 (2:54 AM).
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Toothache Toothache is offline
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So, in a way you're speaking from ignorance. Don't knock it until you try it, and then you see just how 'cheap' or not it really is.
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Old December 22nd, 2004 (2:55 AM).
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Another thing I'll add.

If it's an online team, then go for HP Rock over HP Ghost.. You'll encounter both Flyers and Psychics, but through my experience, I've came across more flyers than psychics..
Namely Salamence, Aero, D'Nite, Charizard and the Legendary Birds..

AND if an admin on Smogon sees this, PLEASE UNBAN GAME OVER. PLEASE.
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Old December 22nd, 2004 (1:34 PM).
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Strawberry Delcatty Strawberry Delcatty is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toothache
If you have problems fighting against opponents who use Substitute, as I did for a while, then you need multi-hit moves on your Pokemon. Something like Rock Blast (anti-Ninjask), Bonemerang (anti-Subpunching Tyranitar/Aggron/Rhydon, and Jolteon), Beat Up (if you want to scare Blissey), Double Kick (anti-Sublax). The Substitute dies on the first attack of these moves, while the second and subsequent ones does damage to the opponent.
Those seem like a good idea. However, the best thing I have is Extremespeed on my Arcanine on my Ojamajo Doremi team. And I doubt that none of my Pokemon can learn those moves... *wishes that Persian can learn Beat Up*
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