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BlackWhite You're Not Legendary, You're Just the Sun

Fifth Generation Are Pokémon slaves to humans? Team Plasma thinks so. Travel the Unova region and prove them wrong in Black & White, and then return two years later in Black 2 & White 2.

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  #1    
Old July 22nd, 2011 (11:35 PM).
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Volcarona, The...Totally Normal Pokémon



Yes, Volcarona is...a totally normal Pokémon. Not a legendary, not a pseudo-legendary, just another Pokémon that happens to have an origin myth, a ruin dedicated entirely to reaching it, a spot at the end of the Pokédex, etc. Nope, nothing special to see here, right?

The Legendary Theory

This is something I was thinking of earlier, when I noticed that Volcarona didn't learn Attract. I've been thinking this for a while, but that just tipped it over the edge and thought I would make a nice, pretty list of all the reasons that I think this is supposed to be a legendary, and was dropped down to a normal Pokémon at the very last minute.

1) Spot at the end of the Pokédex.
This one is self-explanatory. Dragonite, a pseudo-legendary, was in the middle of the legendaries in Kanto. Tyranitar was right before Ho-Oh and Lugia in Johto. Metagross was just before the legendaries in Hoenn. You know what's separating Hydreigon, a pseudo-legendary, from the real legendaries? Larvesta and Volcarona. If they had been legendaries in the planning stages, then that would be explained easily.

2) Myths.
Volcarona was revered, worshipped as a god. He was literally the sun when a volcano erupted, probably earning him his name. This was mentioned very obviously in the game, which gave me the impression to begin with that he was another legendary. I mean, legendaries have legends, right? Volcarona had a very strong legend, given in a way that made him seem like a legendary. I mean, even a sage was looking for it at the end, not the other legendaries in the game, but Volcarona.

3) Relic Castle and the Encounter.
How do you encounter Volcarona, in its fully evolved form? You fight your way through a long, winding puzzle. You go into a room specifically made for this Pokémon, you find it standing there, waiting for you. Like a legendary, no? Forgive me if I'm just not remembering something, but what other non-legendary Pokémon actually stand there and wait like that? And even Virizion and Terrakion didn't have their own areas; they just picked an area already in the game, just a tad off to the side. The underside of the ruins was made specifically for Volcarona.

4) Attract.
This one is the one that I don't think many people would think of. Most legendaries are genderless, and therefore can't learn Attract. There are 3 non-genderless Pokémon that can't learn Attract. One of them is Nincada, with the idea that it could pass on Attract to a genderless Shedinja. The other two? Larvesta and Volcarona. There's no reasoning behind it, they are just needlessly without the ability to learn this TM. It's not that Volcarona isn't attractive or something; Muk can learn it. My theory: Volcarona was originally supposed to be a genderless legendary, and therefore couldn't learn Attract. When they switched it, they didn't remember to switch that, so now it just can't learn it.

The Arguments Against

Of course, not everything points to Volcarona being a legendary. To be fair, here are some of the counterpoints that I've thought of, with my replies to them.

1) Legendaries don't evolve!
There is the matter of Larvesta; No legendary in the past has been known to evolve in any way whatsoever. This is by far the most glaring hole in my argument in my opinion, but when considered isn't too big a deal at all. We all know Arcanine was supposed to be legendary and then ended up not being legendary, right? Volcarona could easily be the same way. Arcanine has a pre-evolution, that doesn't take away its part as a legendary in the planning stages.

2) Volcarona can breed.
Yes, Volcarona can breed. But then again, so can Arcanine. It would be simple to add in genders for Volcarona and then by default it would be able to breed.

3) Other normal Pokémon have a spot at the end of the 'Dex.
In every generation except Sinnoh, the end of the 'Dex, before the legendaries, has been a pseudo-legendary. Once again, I reiterate that Hydreigon comes just before Larvesta and Volcarona in the Unova Pokédex. If Volcarona was a legendary (and Larvesta didn't exist), then Hydreigon would take its rightful place as the pseudo at the end of the Pokédex.

Final Notes

So I posted this thread both to share my findings with other people who know the Pokémon of Gen V as well as I do, and to hear your thoughts. Am I wrong? Was it actually supposed to be a pseudo-legendary? Are there more gaping holes in my wild speculation? Let me know! :3
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  #2    
Old July 23rd, 2011 (1:53 AM).
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    Pretty obvious that Urgamoth is based on Mothra and Sazandra is based on King Gidorah.
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    Old July 23rd, 2011 (2:59 AM).
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    I still think it's a legendary tbh even though I know it isn't. Or at least I know when it was first revealed I thought it'd be one of the legendaries since there seemed to be so many. But yeah I agree entirely with this in regards to the theories supporting why it would be a legendary.

    Actually, maybe it isn't a legendary because Genesect is already the bug legendary and is event-only so people concentrate on it idk. I know it sounds unlikely as why but people have wanted a bug legendary for a while haven't they? and to my knowledge there isn't one before Unova's. :x

    There's also the fact you get Larvesta as an egg, isn't that kind of weird that you get it as an egg while you can already get a Volcarona at Relic Castle? Maybe you weren't meant to get Volcarona in-game but they needed something to extend the castle at the end so they just put it there making it seem more normal but idk.
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    Old July 23rd, 2011 (3:12 AM).
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      1) Manaphy, a legendary blob, can breed as well, so that reinforces your theory in that regard.

      2) Where's Chimecho placed in the Hoenn dex? Never encountered the little bugger, but I remember people mentioned AR codes for it back when Emerald was released. It also has a pre-evo as well..

      It should also be said that being attracted to anything with the ability Flame Body sounds incredibly painful, they might just not learn it due to sympathy from the developers.. :P
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      Old July 23rd, 2011 (3:19 AM).
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      Quote:
      2) Where's Chimecho placed in the Hoenn dex? Never encountered the little bugger, but I remember people mentioned AR codes for it back when Emerald was released. It also has a pre-evo as well..
      Chimecho is positioned near Tropius and Absol in the Pokedex. However, it is the last in the index number list because it was added late in the game.
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      Old July 23rd, 2011 (3:32 AM).
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        With the above in mind, does that also mean that Volcorona was simply implemented late because they needed something for the Relic Castle as Nica suggests?

        As if the EQ tm wasn't enough of a reward already lol. Sort of makes you wonder if Volcorona maybe had a twin in the Abyssal Ruins, since it is sort of similar to the Relic Castle..
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        Old July 23rd, 2011 (4:29 AM).
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          I don't know if you haven't realized, but Garchomp, a pseudo legendary, is far behind the legendaries in the Pokedex. Heck, even Lumineon comes after it in the Pokedex.

          Quote:
          but what other non-legendary Pokémon actually stand there and wait like that?

          Sorry, but forgot about Rotom? Red Gyarados? Lapras? Drifloon? Zen Mode Darmanitan? Kecleon? Sudowoodo? Electrode (sort of)? Hypno? And that's not all, too.

          As for the myths thing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Golurk said to be a Pokemon created for the own purpose of defending humans and Pokemon in the legends? It isn't worshiped like Ho-Oh, but it protects Pokemon and humans from disasters like Rayquaza and Cresselia.


          The Attract argument has a point, but Cryogonal, a genderless Pokemon, is capable of learning Attract. Mew can too! I know it's dumb, but it kind of doesn't make any sense.
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          Old July 23rd, 2011 (4:55 AM).
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            Quote:
            4) Attract.
            This one is the one that I don't think many people would think of. Most legendaries are genderless, and therefore can't learn Attract. There are 3 non-genderless Pokémon that can't learn Attract. One of them is Nincada, with the idea that it could pass on Attract to a genderless Shedinja. The other two? Larvesta and Volcarona. There's no reasoning behind it, they are just needlessly without the ability to learn this TM. It's not that Volcarona isn't attractive or something; Muk can learn it. My theory: Volcarona was originally supposed to be a genderless legendary, and therefore couldn't learn Attract. When they switched it, they didn't remember to switch that, so now it just can't learn it
            The fact that Volcarona can not learn Attract is pretty retarded. But in my honest opinion, I believe that they did not want Volcarona to learn Attract nor did they want Larvesta to learn it because they probably wanted to confuse people on whether it is a legendary, puesdo legendary or even a normal Pokemon and it is actually getting people confused.


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            Old July 23rd, 2011 (5:27 AM).
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              I don't know about this.. I think they've should make it a pseudo-legendary, but the reason why you can get Larvesta as egg is plain weard. =/
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              Old July 23rd, 2011 (6:57 AM).
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              Manaphy can breed and it's a legendary!

              These thoughts make me think it's supposed to be a legendary. A failed project, I guess. But Team Plasma wanted it, which meant it was somehow special.
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              Old July 23rd, 2011 (7:30 AM).
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                I think it was Larvester that was added to make the Legendary count less, making Volcarona a "normal" Pokemon. I've surprised it isn't a pseudo-legendary Pokemon. About attract, I guess they just forgot. I dunno, it has a mythical story but it doesn't need to be a legendary Pokemon.
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                Old July 23rd, 2011 (12:21 PM).
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                I think Volcarona was supposed to be a legendary but there are too many legendaries already so GF scrapped that idea or something.
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                Old July 23rd, 2011 (12:50 PM).
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                  hmm interesting theory. i honestly don't know what to think. i keep wavering between both sides. volcarona does seem important and has its own area dedicated to it, so atm i am leaning more to the side that it was supposed to be a legendary.
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                  Old July 23rd, 2011 (12:59 PM).
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                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by Opposite Day View Post
                  It should also be said that being attracted to anything with the ability Flame Body sounds incredibly painful, they might just not learn it due to sympathy from the developers.. :P
                  LOL. Rough Skin would hurt too xD

                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by Forever View Post
                  Actually, maybe it isn't a legendary because Genesect is already the bug legendary and is event-only so people concentrate on it idk. I know it sounds unlikely as why but people have wanted a bug legendary for a while haven't they? and to my knowledge there isn't one before Unova's. :x

                  There's also the fact you get Larvesta as an egg, isn't that kind of weird that you get it as an egg while you can already get a Volcarona at Relic Castle? Maybe you weren't meant to get Volcarona in-game but they needed something to extend the castle at the end so they just put it there making it seem more normal but idk.
                  Interesting theory. Like maybe Relic Castle was there as a maze to get to the Sage there, and Volcarona was added as an afterthought? I honestly didn't think of that possibility. The egg itself is just a...weird way to get a Pokemon, maybe because they wanted it available before you defeated the Elite Four. Which would probably strengthen my theory in that they added Larvesta and made it normal, then realized you still couldn't get it before the E4 so they made him give you an egg so they didn't have to have them in the wild.

                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by Spinosaurus View Post
                  I don't know if you haven't realized, but Garchomp, a pseudo legendary, is far behind the legendaries in the Pokedex. Heck, even Lumineon comes after it in the Pokedex.
                  Garchomp is the only one like that. It's the exception, not the rule. Every other one is right before the legendaries except Hydreigon, who is separated by the Volcarona line.

                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by Spinosaurus
                  Sorry, but forgot about Rotom? Red Gyarados? Lapras? Drifloon? Zen Mode Darmanitan? Kecleon? Sudowoodo? Electrode (sort of)? Hypno? And that's not all, too.
                  Many of those have explanations, and are special in their own way, while Volcarona has no reason to be there. For example, Red Gyarados was obviously shiny and special to the plot. From looking up the Drifloon, it seems like it's more like the DW Munna than anything, not like a legendary that just stays there indefinitely. Darmanitan is also special because it's DW. In FR/LG, you can catch Lapras in the wild as well as encounter it as a gift, so it's not solely available in this way. Not sure where you run into Hypno as a standing Pokemon, but it can be caught in the wild fairly easily.

                  Point being, those standing Pokemon in general are not treated like legendaries, like Volcarona is at that point. They're there for a plot-based reason, and/or nearly always catchable in the wild (going to stick to non-absolutes so you don't pull one out that I don't know about, lol). That makes their appearance less special and important, while Volcarona can only be caught by encountering him like you would a legendary.

                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by Spinosaurus
                  As for the myths thing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Golurk said to be a Pokemon created for the own purpose of defending humans and Pokemon in the legends? It isn't worshiped like Ho-Oh, but it protects Pokemon and humans from disasters like Rayquaza and Cresselia.
                  Maybe you're right on that one, I'm not sure of myths related to Golurk honestly, not my favorite Pokemon. xD;

                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by Spinosaurus
                  The Attract argument has a point, but Cryogonal, a genderless Pokemon, is capable of learning Attract. Mew can too! I know it's dumb, but it kind of doesn't make any sense.
                  Yeah I'm not sure why Cryogonal can learn Attract, honestly. I don't even have any theories about it. xD; Mew can because Mew can learn everything, that's what I assumed as far as reasoning. The Attract thing is kind of shaky just because in my theory, they decided not to make him a legendary and then Larvesta was created, or they decided not to make him a legendary because they wanted Larvesta. Either way, they had enough time to create the art and sprite for Larvesta, decide where to put him, put it into the game, it seems like they'd have enough time to fix Attract...my theory is that it just slipped their minds, lol.

                  What you have to understand is that any one of the points of evidence alone doesn't mean anything, obviously. There are other Pokemon that have myths. There are other Pokemon that stand. There are other Pokemon that have weird Attract rules. But if you take them all together, it's hard to say that a Pokemon that stands on its own, has myths associated with it, cannot be caught anywhere else, and adds another except to the rule of pseudo-legendaries, was not originally a legendary.

                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by ~*!*~Tatsujin Gosuto~*!*~ View Post


                  The fact that Volcarona can not learn Attract is pretty retarded. But in my honest opinion, I believe that they did not want Volcarona to learn Attract nor did they want Larvesta to learn it because they probably wanted to confuse people on whether it is a legendary, puesdo legendary or even a normal Pokemon and it is actually getting people confused.


                  :t354:TG
                  That's a very interesting theory, that they want confusion over its legendary status, and so they made it have traits of a legendary. I wonder how many Pokemon seem like legendaries but aren't?
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                    #15    
                  Old July 23rd, 2011 (1:31 PM). Edited July 23rd, 2011 by Gymnotide.
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                    Labeling Pokemon as "pseudo-legendary" is kind of dumb anyway. There's nothing that really sets the Pokemon apart from others. I'd go as far to say that Volcarona is also a pseudo-legendary, if it weren't for its BST of 550 and its 2-stage evolutionary line. It was probably placed after Hydreigon because they're both based off of Godzilla lol.

                    Though, while I'm still here, I want to ask where there was actual confirmation that Arcanine was intended to be a legendary. I know it appeared on the slab with the three birds, and its Pokemon species, but I don't think those are valid points unless there's an actual interview somewhere. Also: did you know Arcanine can learn Teleport in Gen I?

                    * * * * *

                    Heatran is a gendered legendary that learns Attract. It's doesn't even have that hot of a back-story, either.

                    Plus, Zorua and Zoroark act like legendaries in-game too.
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                    Old July 23rd, 2011 (7:46 PM).
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                      I kind of agree with Gymnotide; why are we labeling Pseudo-Legends now? Are we going to go into Quarter and Eighthlet Legends? Does being Pseudo-Legendary make the haters hate? Does it change the teir Volcarona belongs in? (The last one is an honest question)

                      I don't see that it really matters, if you wanna take it as a legend, take it as a legend. You shall gain no perks, nor lose any, my curious friend.
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                      Old July 23rd, 2011 (7:52 PM).
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                      Quote:
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                      I kind of agree with Gymnotide; why are we labeling Pseudo-Legends now? Are we going to go into Quarter and Eighthlet Legends? Does being Pseudo-Legendary make the haters hate? Does it change the teir Volcarona belongs in? (The last one is an honest question)

                      I don't see that it really matters, if you wanna take it as a legend, take it as a legend. You shall gain no perks, nor lose any, my curious friend.
                      Pseudo doesn't mean 'half', it means 'fake'. :P And tiers have nothing to do with pseudo-legendaries, although I do think that they tend to be in a high tier just because their BST is high.
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                      Old July 23rd, 2011 (8:02 PM).
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                        Pseudo doesn't mean 'half', it means 'fake'. And tiers have nothing to do with pseudo-legendaries, although I do think that they tend to be in a high tier just because their BST is high.

                        Haha, true, but I didn't think fake legendary was appropriate, unless your Volcarona has implicitly asked you to call it a legendary.

                        And you know, there's a Bulbapedia page on Pseudo Legends, so I guess the term has some sense behind it. I just don't care too much about legendaries.
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                        Old July 23rd, 2011 (8:51 PM).
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                          It looks more like a non-lengendary because they aren't suppose to breed but I think it is a legendary a little.
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                          Old July 23rd, 2011 (8:52 PM).
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                          You know, Genderless Pokemon can breed with Ditto. This is because they actually do have programmed breeding groups. So even if Volcarona was genderless to begin with its unlikely that it was more than a pseudo-legendary because of that fact (Pokemon that cannot breed are programmed to specifically not breed, this is why Cresselia or Latios can't breed).

                          In terms of Attract if Volcarona was initially intended to be genderless it could have easily been forgotten to give it and its preevolution Attract.

                          In addition, myths associated with Pokemon is commonplace with more normal Pokemon, like Xatu seeing the end of the world and things like that.

                          I don't think Volcarona should be considered a legendary Pokemon, but its certainly a very, very strong one.
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                            #21    
                          Old July 24th, 2011 (4:06 AM).
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                            As far as I'm concerned, within the canon of the games, Volcarona is at least as legendary as Manaphy/Phione. You did make a lot of good points. Also, about the Attract thing, I know that Mew and Arceus can learn Attract, even though they can't use it.
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                            Old July 24th, 2011 (5:12 PM).
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                              I was thinking about that too... Maybe it was going to be a legendary, but then GameFreak decided that the Legendaries count was ridiculously high, so they made it normal. Seriously, how many "ultra rare and all powerful" Pokemon does a game need? This is getting a bit silly. *sighs* I remember when I was a little one, and I thought Mew was the "god Pokemon"...
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                              Old July 27th, 2011 (1:44 PM).
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                                I see your points. I believe it was intended as a legendary, but as they developed, they realized it was unnecessary and continued on their merry way
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                                  #24    
                                Old July 27th, 2011 (2:30 PM).
                                Ieyasu's Avatar
                                Ieyasu Ieyasu is offline
                                This statement is false
                                   
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                                  Many people thought Lucario was legendary before Diamond and Pearl came out. It, too, has a pre-evolved form, and therefore isn't considered legendary. More or less, the point of Iron Island was to receive Riolu (originally, that is).

                                  Personally, I don't think Volcarona was originally intended to be legendary, and neither was Lucario, but it may have been pseudo-legendary. After all, Hoenn's pseudos were Metagross and Salamence, so there's no reason Volcarona wasn't intended to go down that path.

                                  The Attract thing is strange and out of place, though.
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                                    #25    
                                  Old July 27th, 2011 (9:37 PM).
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                                  Nephilim Nephilim is offline
                                  Resounding Sounds.
                                     
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                                    I first considered Volcarona a legendary, but c'mon, I know they wouldn't make a legendary so stealth rock weak.

                                    ...then again, there's Articuno and Moltres. I suppose that destroys my point.

                                    Quote:
                                    Originally Posted by Ieyasu
                                    Many people thought Lucario was legendary before Diamond and Pearl came out
                                    Agreeing with this person here. Though it's possible that many others have considered Lucario a legendary just because of it's overrated popularity at the time and(correct me if I'm wrong), the movie, in many people's eyes, kind of reinforced that "legendary" point, though to be honest, I'm not quite 100% sure about this because I'm not really sure whether the movie featuring Lucario came after the D/P games were released and whatnot.

                                    Anyway, I think I'm ranting on and on too much, and I've already given my perspective on the topic, so I probably should end this post now.

                                    Volcarona's strength still might be misleading to others, and that might be why its also considered a legendary or something, but then again....I'm guessing Genesect stole Volcarona's title of bug-type legendary.

                                    Oh well. :(
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