Your View of God

Started by dinosaurodon July 27th, 2011 11:18 PM
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Posted May 21st, 2016
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I saw a thread like this on another forum so I will borrow it.
What are your views on god? Do you think he/she/it is the the highest of beings? Do you think there is one, or many? Do you think god is ancient mans perception of aliens? Or do not believe in a supreme being at all, and think we all just are? please discuss, oh and be civil and respect other peoples views.
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All myth is based on some truth, that being said religon, beliefs w/e you want to call it is subjective and shouldnt be force fed to people or be argued to who is right. Everyone is entitled to believe without fear of judgement. I personaly enjoy the idea that aliens helped acient civilizations accomplish alot of those amazing feats. Thats just me tho!


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I am Christian, but aside from faith I do have other reasons to believe in Him.
Acts 14:17 says, "Yet he has not left himself without testimony: He has shown kindness by giving you rain from heaven and crops in their seasons; he provides you with plenty of food and fills your hearts with joy."
Aside from the fact that He provides for our needs (even if you don't believe in Him), creation clearly shows that there was and is a Creator. Everything in the universe is to well perfectly placed and balanced and everything on our planet is to well designed for it to have been a random cause of a random explosion. Even simple celled organisms are amazingly designed.
I don't believe God is cruel, but I do believe He is strict, just, but fair and merciful. He is also loving. Heck, He sent His only Son Jesus (which basically means God Himself died for usas God is Jesus and Jesus is God. Dont ask for an explanation, cause even I dont get it) to die for us, if thats not a demonstration of love, then I don't know what is.

*I apologize for any typos, I'm typing this from my iPhone*
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I am 60% sure that this thread exists somewhere already. However, I'll answer it regardless.

In my personal view of deities, I am atheistic. This means that I do not believe in the existence of a god or gods. I feel this way because there is no sound proof that convinces me otherwise. In addition, most of the qualities attributed to deities feel anthropomorphized; most religions explain this by stating that god(s) created man in his/her/its/their likeness, but this is outweighed by the amount of un-compelling answers about deities that are provided time after time. Again, personally, based off of prior education, I believe that gods arose from man's desire for explanation of the natural realm. Before science, it was commonplace to explain aspects of life in terms of the supernatural; without science, even the most basic of things, like air and fire, can be astounding. As a result, this is why deities in ancient times unambiguously embodied the primal elements (as well as things so fundamental as emotion).

I cite this time and time again, but--We have Thor, the god of strength whose enchanted hammer becomes a lightning bolt when thrown, Zeus, the sky-god of the Greeks whose ability to cause rain was renowned across the Mediterranean, Izanagi and Izanami, once lovers turned agents of creation and death, Set, the god whose likeness embodied the darkness and storms of deserts, among others. It's no coincidence that every culture worldwide had deities who embodied the elements, which leads me to strongly suspect that they not only controlled the elements, but were the elements, deified. Thor is lightning, Zeus is rain, Izanagi and Izanami are life and death, and Set is desert plague. Eris is strife, Kvasir is inspiration, Ereshkigal is the passage between life and death, Pluto is Greed, Persephone is springtime, Cybele is nature. It's as simple as that.

However, once enough lore comes about, it makes sense that more and more gods arise out of story-crafting. The reason why Cerberos exists is because Hades needed a watchdog. The reason why Lif and Lifthrasir exist is because they needed to become the next human race after Ragnarokr. Following this, all cultures, in Greek / Roman mythos in particular, have a trend of combining aspects of gods together. We originally had Athena, goddess of war prowess, and Nike, goddess of victory--the two slowly fused identities and became one deity. We had Venus, goddess of beauty and love, and Cloacina, an Etruscan goddess--the Romans ultimately opted to combine the two of them.

Therefore, my view of the monotheistic-common God of modern day is that He is the combination of many different gods together. It's absolutely no coincidence that he carries the traits of many Western deities, and the stories in the Bible closely correlate to seemingly unrelated cultures.
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^ Of course, the only reason we humans have done those things is because we are wired to worship something. People who didn't know the true God always looked for an answer because thats the way we are made. Even if yoi dont believe in God, or in anything like that for that matter, youre going to idolize something.
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HarrisonH

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I am Christian, but aside from faith I do have other reasons to believe in Him.
Acts 14:17 says, "Yet he has not left himself without testimony: He has shown kindness by giving you rain from heaven and crops in their seasons; he provides you with plenty of food and fills your hearts with joy."
Aside from the fact that He provides for our needs (even if you don't believe in Him), creation clearly shows that there was and is a Creator. Everything in the universe is to well perfectly placed and balanced and everything on our planet is to well designed for it to have been a random cause of a random explosion. Even simple celled organisms are amazingly designed.
I don't believe God is cruel, but I do believe He is strict, just, but fair and merciful. He is also loving. Heck, He sent His only Son Jesus (which basically means God Himself died for usas God is Jesus and Jesus is God. Dont ask for an explanation, cause even I dont get it) to die for us, if thats not a demonstration of love, then I don't know what is.

*I apologize for any typos, I'm typing this from my iPhone*
99.99999999...% of the universe is deadly to humans. Over 70% of the Earth's surface is inhabitable by humans. I'm not quite sure where this "obvious design" or "balance" is. This quote explains it well:

Right now, it is raining methane on Titan. The planet Uranus, apparently trying to live up to it’s name, is orbiting the sun sideways, while Venus spins backwards. There are stars exploding, black holes gorging, galaxies colliding.

And here we sit, on a planet pock-marked by collisions, rocked by earthquakes, shaken by storms. A planet doomed to be fried in radiation as it’s magnetic fields collapse, until finally the sun grows into a red giant and leaves nothing of the Earth but dust.

Here we sit, glasses on our noses, inhalers in our pockets, braces on our teeth, waiting to die as our heart muscle expires, our cells decide to grow forever, or a blood vessel just pops, and sometimes in unnatural ways, too.

Here we sit, and some of us say, behold, look at the order of it all.
Pretty much everything you said is a faith-based assumption, not grounded in any sort of observable facts. In fact, the observable facts contradict everything you said. It all comes from your faith that everything that the Bible says is true, which is only said... in the Bible.

You say you don't believe that your god is cruel, but the Bible itself contains much cruelty from god.

Exodus 4:23
Exodus 13:15
Exodus 20:5
Isaiah 14:21
Joshua 24:19
Jeremiah 14:12
Deuteronomy 32:39-42
Numbers 11:1
Micah 5:15
Leviticus 26:29

I could go on and on and on and on. There's a massive list here, which is in relation to the above video.
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Balanced as in the sense of stuff like our planet being the perfect distance away from the sun to support our life on earth. The universe was never meant to be colonized by humans, and nor are the other planets we know of. Our other solar system's planets are there influence the balance of our planet so we wont go all over the place (and for our own amusement for that matter).

Exodus 4:23 is stating that Israel as a nation is God's "firstborn son" or in other words his people. God had given pharaoh numerous chances to release Israel from his opression (the Israelites were in slavery under pharoh). Because pharaoh refused to obey God, justice had to be done. I don't think God meant firstborn son as in an actual biological son but Pharohs kingdom.

Exodus 13:15- Yes. Did you also know that the Egyptians killed the Israelite's firstborns to prevent them from growing in number? That's justice for you there!

Exodus 20:5- I do believe that God says he will show mercy and love those who obey Him keep His commands after He says He will punish those who don't. Is not punishment necessary for those who break the law?


I don't feel like analyzing the whole list you put, but I hope I've made it clear that God has a just reason fir punishing and what now or doingthe things He does.
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^ Of course, the only reason we humans have done those things is because we are wired to worship something. People who didn't know the true God always looked for an answer because thats the way we are made. Even if yoi dont believe in God, or in anything like that for that matter, youre going to idolize something.
The main difference between modern worship and ancient worship is that modern worship tends to idolize an intangible being, while ancient focuses on the readily observable. This is a big enough difference to say that worship isn't the same at all. A lot of ancient religions weren't about how humans were made (or even why humans are the way they are), but the essence of being itself, i.e. primal cosmology straight down to the elements and actual composition. Modern religion is more morally engrained (though that's not much consolation for me).

"True God" seems a bit blunt.
lurid/lucid

"I want to tear myself from this place, from this reality, rise up like a cloud and float away, melt into this humid summer night and dissolve somewhere far, over the hills. But I am here, my legs blocks of concrete, my lungs empty of air, my throat burning. There will be no floating away."

Khaled Hosseini

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I'm Roman Catholic and believe in God, and stand strong by that belief. I believe in Jesus and the Holy Spirit, therefore I believe in the Holy Trinity. My belief stands strong no matter how much proof of atheism I read or hear.

I respect other beliefs, don't worry. I have a Mormon and half Muslim friend and I respect them. So no need to worry about me converting you whatsoever. I'm here to talk about Pokemon, not to convert XD
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I'm Roman Catholic and believe in God, and stand strong by that belief. I believe in Jesus and the Holy Spirit, therefore I believe in the Holy Trinity. My belief stands strong no matter how much proof of atheism I read or hear.

I respect other beliefs, don't worry. I have a Mormon and half Muslim friend and I respect them. So no need to worry about me converting you whatsoever. I'm here to talk about Pokemon, not to convert XD
Nitpicking: Atheism isn't something one "proves" because you can't prove a lack of belief.
lurid/lucid

"I want to tear myself from this place, from this reality, rise up like a cloud and float away, melt into this humid summer night and dissolve somewhere far, over the hills. But I am here, my legs blocks of concrete, my lungs empty of air, my throat burning. There will be no floating away."

Khaled Hosseini

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whoever disabled my signature:
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@Gymnotide: If by readily observable you mean worshiping a statue, then that's because it was man made. Jehovah God actually revealed Himself to the Israelites in pillar of fire and clouds. He even does it now, except not in the spectacular way as before, cause then we'd believe cause we saw instead of by faith. Before you say I contradicted myself there, most of the Israelites had faith that the God they followed and worshipped was real (they hadn't seen Him yet), which then God showed God power to them, as He does now with the ones who believe in Him.
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HarrisonH

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Well, I was about to go to bed, then I saw you replied.

Balanced as in the sense of stuff like our planet being the perfect distance away from the sun to support our life on earth. The universe was never meant to be colonized by humans, and nor are the other planets we know of. Our other solar system's planets are there influence the balance of our planet so we wont go all over the place (and for our own amusement for that matter).
Apparently you know nothing about astronomy or physics.

Earth is not the "perfect distance away from the sun". Earth is at its nearest point to the sun in early January, and at its furthest point in early July. The difference in the distance from the sun at these two points? Over three million miles.

The thought "our other solar system's planets are there influence the balance of our planet so we wont go all over the place" is absolutely laughable. The other planets have such a small pull on our Earth that were they to suddenly disappear, Earth would continue orbiting the Sun just as it has been.

Exodus 4:23 is stating that Israel as a nation is God's "firstborn son" or in other words his people. God had given pharaoh numerous chances to release Israel from his opression (the Israelites were in slavery under pharoh). Because pharaoh refused to obey God, justice had to be done. I don't think God meant firstborn son as in an actual biological son but Pharohs kingdom.
I'll give you this one.

Exodus 13:15- Yes. Did you also know that the Egyptians killed the Israelite's firstborns to prevent them from growing in number? That's justice for you there!
What about "Turn the other cheek"? If Jesus was god (as you said earlier), he'd be contradicting himself. He'd have changed, which completely goes against the concept of the "perfect" god that he is supposed to be.

Exodus 20:5- I do believe that God says he will show mercy and love those who obey Him keep His commands after He says He will punish those who don't. Is not punishment necessary for those who break the law?
I'm trying to see how that's related at all to the verse, which states that God would punish the children (4 generations down the line! Great-great-great-grandchildren!) for the sins of the parents.

As for "Is punishment necessary": Yes, as long as it fits the crime. Punishing someone who does not believe in a being with absolutely no evidence for existing with torture for eternity is not a fitting punishment.

I don't feel like analyzing the whole list you put, but I hope I've made it clear that God has a just reason fir punishing and what now or doingthe things He does.
No, you haven't.

Also, fun fact while we're on Exodus: The book of Exodus has absolutely no standing as historical fact. Most biblical scholars don't even consider it fact, instead they see it as just a story that tells of a god's ways.
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I have a Mormon and half Muslim friend and I respect them.
How can you be half a religion?

I don't believe in any kind of God, the idea of one just doesn't add up to me, historically or scientifically. Having said that, if anyone wants to show me any kind of concrete evidence that a God exists, go ahead.

See HarrisonH's posts for my general attitude to religion, though I keep my opinions quite unless the subject is debate or someone annoys me.


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If there's a god that created the universe then he probably would not be meddling with one tiny little planet in a little galaxy in the tiniest corner of the universe. I don't believe in divine intervention. Laws of the universe don't change for some infinitesimal speck.

But I don't see the need to prove or disprove this god. He's not going to do anything about us. But I still doubt such a one would exist.


Should I be amazed that this thread has already started a debate?
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I don't believe in any God. I've yet to see one shred of valid evidence that any of them exist.

But if he did exist, my view of him would be some disgustingly prejudiced and contradictory old being who created a universe and gave people natural instincts and impulses for the sole purpose of testing how well they can resist them. The prize for those successful? Eternal life!
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@HarrisonH: Yet the earth is still the right distance away to keep life alive. I don't know what to say about the planets though, it's been a while since I've looked at that stuff.
Starting with Exodus 13:15 quote, I'm going to number them in order of descension to make it easier.

1. Yes, I do believe that God "turned the other cheek" for about 50 years or so.

2. Was actually reading about this a while ago. You say that those people don't know God, but how can you hate or love someone you don't know? Those who have seen God's goodness and deliberately reject Him are pretty much saying, "Who cares? We don't need you!" and pretty much bring the judgement on themselves. I'm not sure what "visiting the iniquity" part means to be honest. One more thing, if the parent' do those things, then I'm pretty sure the children will as well. Maybe it means that He will see the influence of the parent's evil.

3. Then it's sad to know that even biblical scholars know squat. That's probably because they have 't read Israel's history. Pretty much every celebration at Passover has to do with the Exodus (which means large movement I believe). They went into the "Promised Land" which is where they are now and now live in it.



Anyways, I can tell that no matter how long we debate about this, you're not going to change your thoughts (which is what you guys normally do anyways). Changing your thought's and hearts is God's job, not mine anyways.
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I believe there probably is some sort of God out there. I consider myself a non-denominational Christian because I can't find a branch I 100% agree with. I don't believe every word the Bible says, but I do believe in God. I respect those who don't believe in God as long as they respect me. Please do not quote this saying something like "But there's no proof!" because I will take that as disrespect. I'm not quoting and countering anyone here, I'm just stating my opinion.

HarrisonH

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@HarrisonH: Yet the earth is still the right distance away to keep life alive. I don't know what to say about the planets though, it's been a while since I've looked at that stuff.
"Here we are, therefore God" is a completely silly argument.


Starting with Exodus 13:15 quote, I'm going to number them in order of descension to make it easier.

1. Yes, I do believe that God "turned the other cheek" for about 50 years or so.
So then he completely changed and exerted wrath? Again, if he changed, that goes against the belief that God is "perfect". If he exerted wrath, that goes against the claim that God is "loving". Hell, being wrathful is one of the seven deadly sins.

Speaking of those, here are the ones that God himself as described in the Bible, if he exists, is guilty of: Greed (He wants everyone in the world to worship him), sloth (he has the power to make the world perfect, but he sits back and does nothing instead), wrath (pretty much every single quote I pointed out), envy (being jealous of the worship of other gods/idols), and pride (he is the only who can bring you to salvation, he is the only one worthy of worship, etc).


2. Was actually reading about this a while ago. You say that those people don't know God, but how can you hate or love someone you don't know? Those who have seen God's goodness and deliberately reject Him are pretty much saying, "Who cares? We don't need you!" and pretty much bring the judgement on themselves. I'm not sure what "visiting the iniquity" part means to be honest. One more thing, if the parent' do those things, then I'm pretty sure the children will as well. Maybe it means that He will see the influence of the parent's evil.
How are you supposed to know something that has no physical being, or no proof of its supernatural being? Here's the answer: You can't.

As for "Who cares? We don't need you!", you seem to be making the assumption that everyone believes in god, but do not worship him. That's not the case at all. I do not believe in God, or any god for that matter, because there is absolutely no proof of the existence of one. If evidence of one came out then I'd have to believe in one. "The Bible says" does not count as evidence to anyone with a sense of rationality.

Nice assumptions on the children, by the way. What about "innocent until proven guilty"? With your logic, I could argue that all Christians are intolerant murderers, based on historical events such as the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Salem Witch Trials, many executions of freethinkers over the years, the list goes on and on. After all, if the parents did it, the children probably will as well.


3. Then it's sad to know that even biblical scholars know squat. That's probably because they have 't read Israel's history. Pretty much every celebration at Passover has to do with the Exodus (which means large movement I believe). They went into the "Promised Land" which is where they are now and now live in it.
There is absolutely no historical evidence that the Exodus ever occurred. Here's why:

1. There would have been a massive population drop (and subsequent collapse of the economy) in Egypt had a mass of slaves left all at once. There wasn't.
2. As a result of moving to Canaan, there would have been a massive population increase there. Again, there wasn't.
3. 600k people is a lot of people. Just how many? If they marched 10 people across, they'd still form a line 150 miles long.
4. All archaeological evidence we have points to the origin of Israel not being from a single mass of slaves from Egypt, but from indigenous people. Again, there is absolutely no evidence of an Exodus at all.
5. The Exodus story is not correct for the time it is meant to occur, which in Judaism is accepted as 1312 BCE. The Stations on the route to Israel that have been identified all date to 800-600 BCE. In short, they did not exist when the Exodus is said to occur.

That's enough for now.

Anyways, I can tell that no matter how long we debate about this, you're not going to change your thoughts (which is what you guys normally do anyways). Changing your thought's and hearts is God's job, not mine anyways.
Unlike you, I am open to having my beliefs changed. However, also unlike you, I expect there to be some sort of evidence to cause that change. Your arguments do not provide any sort of evidence, and as such have zero chance of causing change.

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A god, in the sense of a supreme, omnipotent being, is beyond the comprehension of a mere mortal. A supreme being would not be bound by time and space, basically the fabric of our universe. Which renders most of this discussion pointless.

HarrisonH

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A god, in the sense of a supreme, omnipotent being, is beyond the comprehension of a mere mortal. A supreme being would not be bound by time and space, basically the fabric of our universe. Which renders most of this discussion pointless.
But if people actually believed that, there'd be nothing to debate! :P