Your View of God Page 2

Started by dinosaurodon July 27th, 2011 11:18 PM
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Alex

what will it be next?

Seen December 30th, 2022
Posted December 26th, 2022
6,407 posts
16.4 Years
Another God thread huh..

Atheism is a funny thing. I think people now are finding it cool and controversial to be atheists, and with the more people doing it that's just enabling more to become atheists. And I can understand why people choose to believe in it: it's based on fact. But atheism can neither prove that there is no God. So keeping in mind that no belief actually proves anything, I prefer to keep an open mind about a higher force up there. And especially when you consider how tiny the earth is, and how insignificantly small we are, it's strange to think that there is no God. We think we're so important simply because we have consciousness but we're really not. It would surprise me if there weren't other life in the Universe, and it really would surprise me if there wasn't a higher power in the Universe. So I do choose to believe in God. Which one, I don't know. But I find it more compelling to live my life with the thought of a higher power existing, just to contemplate what it is and how it works.

However, that does bring destiny and faith into the mix, and as Neo said, I don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my own life. So it's a tough one. But I'd rather not follow along blindly with all the atheists these days.

Aorio

this love will see me through.

Age 28
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Colorado
Seen April 12th, 2016
Posted March 12th, 2016
39 posts
11.9 Years
Another God thread huh..

Atheism is a funny thing. I think people now are finding it cool and controversial to be atheists, and with the more people doing it that's just enabling more to become atheists. And I can understand why people choose to believe in it: it's based on fact. But atheism can neither prove that there is no God. So keeping in mind that no belief actually proves anything, I prefer to keep an open mind about a higher force up there. And especially when you consider how tiny the earth is, and how insignificantly small we are, it's strange to think that there is no God. We think we're so important simply because we have consciousness but we're really not. It would surprise me if there weren't other life in the Universe, and it really would surprise me if there wasn't a higher power in the Universe. So I do choose to believe in God. Which one, I don't know. But I find it more compelling to live my life with the thought of a higher power existing, just to contemplate what it is and how it works.

However, that does bring destiny and faith into the mix, and as Neo said, I don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my own life. So it's a tough one. But I'd rather not follow along blindly with all the atheists these days.
Atheists don't go around blindly. There is no evidence of a God existing -- the world revolves as if there isn't one. I don't see how being atheist is cool or controversial or why someone would become atheist based off that, isn't that kind of.. stupid? I wouldn't become a Christian just because "everybody else is doing it." I don't believe in God. That's it.

Nick

Seen 4 Weeks Ago
Posted July 28th, 2021
17,572 posts
18.6 Years
How can you be half a religion?
Easy. Some people like to identify with something. A title that they can give others, which aligns with their beliefs. Since some people don't exactly identify with one religion, and have various other beliefs that are outside of one religion, they feel they identify better with saying that they're part of something. It's what makes up who they are, like one's nationality.

I believe there is a God. I just do.
This is an enlightening post.
Age 33
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Seen May 26th, 2022
Posted October 11th, 2021
262 posts
14.1 Years
Atheism is a funny thing. I think people now are finding it cool and controversial to be atheists, and with the more people doing it that's just enabling more to become atheists. And I can understand why people choose to believe in it: it's based on fact.
Atheists don't go around blindly. There is no evidence of a God existing -- the world revolves as if there isn't one. I don't see how being atheist is cool or controversial or why someone would become atheist based off that, isn't that kind of.. stupid? I wouldn't become a Christian just because "everybody else is doing it." I don't believe in God. That's it.
Really, anybody can become something blindly--whether they be Christian or Atheist. If you follow a "thing" others are doing purely and simply because you think it's cool to do so, you're not doing so based on the merits of the "thing" in question.

But atheism can neither prove that there is no God.
This is proving a negative.

Tooth Fairy deniers can't prove that there is no Tooth Fairy. Can you prove that the Tooth Fairy doesn't exist? Would you be persuaded with that argument to think that the Tooth Fairy can exist?

So keeping in mind that no belief actually proves anything, I prefer to keep an open mind about a higher force up there.
But keeping an open mind would mean you also are open to the idea that such a higher force doesn't exist. And I think it's quite the opposite in most homes; the close-minded household that one typically thinks of in the United States is one which dictates to its children that there is a God and there is no questioning that. It doesn't really strike me as something that happens in the reverse anywhere near as often (There is no God and you won't question that, Billy!)

And especially when you consider how tiny the earth is, and how insignificantly small we are, it's strange to think that there is no God.
Actually I think it's strange to think, based on that information, that one would think that there IS a God. What about our size in comparison to the universe should imply anything about the existence of God?

We think we're so important simply because we have consciousness but we're really not.
Your argument is perplexing, given that you believe in a God and make this point. This is the sort of remark that most atheists would make to those who believe in God who feel that there's some afterlife they're going to--and one that strictly humans are going to, as most Christians don't believe animals have souls.

Rather, it is the argument of an atheist to say that it is the religious person who is self-centered and self-important to feel that they are entitled to an afterlife, or that there is a higher intelligence that created the universe (and man) in His own image.

It would surprise me if there weren't other life in the Universe, and it really would surprise me if there wasn't a higher power in the Universe.
Why would it be more surprising that there wasn't a higher power in the universe? Wouldn't it be the opposite, that the fact that we exist on this planet implies that life can exist elsewhere, but our lack of an ability to demonstrate that "He" exists makes His existence less plausible?

So I do choose to believe in God. Which one, I don't know. But I find it more compelling to live my life with the thought of a higher power existing, just to contemplate what it is and how it works.
Okay, although why exactly you arbitrarily decide to believe in God is a mystery.

Where did God come from? Was he always here, or did He arise out of nothing? As Carl Sagan said, why not save a step and say the Universe was always here, or came from nothing?

What exactly is reassuring about the existence of a higher power, anyway?

However, that does bring destiny and faith into the mix, and as Neo said, I don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my own life. So it's a tough one.
But if there is some higher power as you believe, would you not think He had some power or control over your life? Why would He not have the power to do so?

If He can't intervene in human affairs or establish in any way that He exists, then why presume that He exists at all? And of what need that He exists is there, again?

But I'd rather not follow along blindly with all the atheists these days.
I think this explains the reason for the similarities in arguments to those of secularists. It sounds like the mentality of an anti-conformist who doesn't want to be "just one of those atheists." It sounds to me like you more have a problem with populism than you do with not believing in a God. And if that's the case, then you should know that there are way more people believing in a God in the world than there are atheists. So if you have problems with looking like a conformist, you're in with the "wrong" crowd.
Age 30
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New York City
Seen May 21st, 2016
Posted May 16th, 2016
3,597 posts
15.9 Years
Alright, since this thread is going somewhere where it really shouldn't, I'm just going to say this once:

In order to prove something, you must adhere to the principles of Logical Positivism and the Falsifiability Principle. The former states that something is true if you can find solid evidence of it in observational data. The latter states that something is not true if you can find evidence against it in observational data. Since God, god, or gods cannot be verily observed, we can't strictly prove OR disprove them. That's why religion is a belief system, not a science.

You can't prove that something doesn't exist because you can't observe it. You can only infer it (in an educated manner) based on lack of evidence. Don't go around saying "you can't prove that God doesn't exist." That's immaterial and doesn't change the fact that you can't prove He does.

You are also referring to atheism as though it was a religion when it's not. At all.
lurid/lucid

"I want to tear myself from this place, from this reality, rise up like a cloud and float away, melt into this humid summer night and dissolve somewhere far, over the hills. But I am here, my legs blocks of concrete, my lungs empty of air, my throat burning. There will be no floating away."

Khaled Hosseini

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twocows

The not-so-black cat of ill omen

Age 32
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Michigan
Seen February 19th, 2023
Posted April 30th, 2021
4,307 posts
14.2 Years
I am atheist. However, I think there is some credence to the Hindu belief that all things, living and non-living, are manifestations of a supreme being or consciousness. I believe if there is some such concept, that would be its most likely form. Specifically, I believe that if there is a higher power, we and it are one and the same.
VNs are superior to anime, don't @ me

Shining Raichu

Expect me like you expect Jesus.

Age 32
Male
Australia
Seen October 17th, 2020
Posted December 21st, 2017
8,958 posts
12.3 Years
Atheism is a funny thing. I think people now are finding it cool and controversial to be atheists, and with the more people doing it that's just enabling more to become atheists.

I'd rather not follow along blindly with all the atheists these days.
Ah yes, I remember the day I became an atheist. I remember it well.

I was a devout Catholic who attended church not only every Sunday, but also every Tuesday and Thursday. I would carry my rosary beads everywhere I went talked to my parish priest about everything. He wasn't just my priest, he was like my best friend, you know? Zyggy was his name - well, it wasn't his real name but he asked us to call him "Father Zyggy" because he was Polish and had a name too long and difficult to pronounce. But I digress.

One evening I was watching television by myself - young and impressionable tyke I was, just sixteen years old - when I came across one of those debate shows. My mother had always turned these shows off in the past, telling me that they weren't something I needed to see. I was home alone, so I decided to watch. It was a little thrilling, to be honest. It was like being an eleven-year-old accidentally discovering pornography. You know you shouldn't watch it, you know you'd get in trouble if you were caught, but that's what makes it that much more appealing, isn't it?

I don't remember the exact question they were debating, but it was heavily into religion and the belief in God. On the affirmative side there was a Catholic Archbishop, a Lutheran minister and a Mormon mother of seven. On the negative team there were three atheists. On the left there was a psychologist, in the middle there was an evolutionary scientist, and on the right was the coolest guy I have ever seen.

I became enamoured with him. When it was finally his turn to talk, he spoke with such passion and such logic, I could barely control my excitement. He was just so cool. So my becoming an atheist had nothing at all to do with the fact that the entire negative team made valid and coherent arguments while all the affirmative team could muster was "no, you're wrong, bcos Jesus." No, it was all due to this guy. My entire thought process completely shut down while he spoke. The only thought that entered my head was "Wow, I wish I could be as cool as that guy."

Then it hit me. I could be as cool as that guy! All I had to do was throw in my faith in my rosary beads and cease believing in God! It was that simple! Immediately, I called the Atheism Hotline (1-800-ATHEIST or 1-800-284-3478 for those of you who might be interested) and requested a starter kit. One week later, a box came in the mail...

Excitedly, I cut the tape and opened the box. Inside, there was a Holy Bible taped to a box of matches for my rite-of-passage Bible-burning ceremony, a step-by-step guide on how do to the 'cool guy' atheist handshake, three bottles of acid to pour into Holy Water at church so that it actually does something, a cap to wear backwards, a laminated membership card and this T-shirt:

Spoiler:


I chose that T-shirt over the one that said "Thank God I'm An Atheist" because the latter seemed a little too on-the-nose. Also, this one brings out my eyes.

Now that I'm an atheist, I truly feel way cooler than I ever could have hoped to be as a believer. But you know, when I became an atheist, the funniest thing happened. I didn't feel like I was "following along blindly", I felt like I had finally stopped following along blindly. And that, my friend, was the coolest thing of all.
Moderator of General Chat
Age 29
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Posted November 5th, 2017
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14.9 Years
I feel it would be arrogant to try and assume anything about a potential higher being or life force. There is nothing that has convinced me there is a single omnipotent & omniscient consciousness, so in that sense I don't believe in a God.

I also feel it would be arrogant to assume everything in the universe, vast as it is, exists just for the sake of existing. I feel it's likely that there is more to it all than meets the eye (or in this case, the comprehension of the human mind). The closest label I can slap on to my belief is pantheism.

I tend to just say I am agnostic for convenience, I think it's the most logical standpoint to make seeing as humanity is still so naive about the universe. Nobody really knows anything, they just make guesses based on what they're told and their own personality.
My mind says agnosticism (leaning on atheism); but humans aren't robots and my heart says that there's something more.

Steven

h e l p

Age 30
Male
Ohio
Seen January 4th, 2023
Posted September 11th, 2021
1,380 posts
12.3 Years
I believe that the existence of God can not be proven or proven false. I believe most people realize that as well, but it's really just a matter of faith.

I am a very scientific person, I base everything on facts not faith. Facts don't say there is no God, which is why I don't say there isn't God.

I just don't see the point in living in fear (and that's what most religions are - living in fear of punishment) of something I am not sure is even there. I'll just live a good life and treat people how I'd like to be treated - and if there is a God, I highly doubt that it cares whether or not your believe in it. That seems like such a petty thing to do, punish people for not believing. I'd think an all perfect being would be above such immature things. ಠ_ಠ

Being good is all that matters. Anything else put into the equation would make me think God just contradicts the belief of an all loving being.

Another God thread huh..

Atheism is a funny thing. I think people now are finding it cool and controversial to be atheists, and with the more people doing it that's just enabling more to become atheists. And I can understand why people choose to believe in it: it's based on fact. But atheism can neither prove that there is no God. So keeping in mind that no belief actually proves anything, I prefer to keep an open mind about a higher force up there. And especially when you consider how tiny the earth is, and how insignificantly small we are, it's strange to think that there is no God. We think we're so important simply because we have consciousness but we're really not. It would surprise me if there weren't other life in the Universe, and it really would surprise me if there wasn't a higher power in the Universe. So I do choose to believe in God. Which one, I don't know. But I find it more compelling to live my life with the thought of a higher power existing, just to contemplate what it is and how it works.

However, that does bring destiny and faith into the mix, and as Neo said, I don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my own life. So it's a tough one. But I'd rather not follow along blindly with all the atheists these days.
Saying that Atheists can't prove there is no God is quite possibly the dumbest excuse to use. Religion can't prove there is one. No one can prove anything regarding the existence of God, so that argument has no basis.

Also-

YAY I FIND IT SO COOL TO BE THE LEAST TRUSTED MINORITY, IT'S JUST SO FUN TO HAVE PEOPLE LOOK AT ME LIKE I'M A SATAN WORSHIPER! HURRAY!

ಠ_ಠ Seriously? Have you ever just thought that maybe, just maybe, people are Atheist because they don't believe in a god? I know, crazy thought huh?
Keep being amazing.
Shiny Pokemon

seeker

Ireland
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Posted May 20th, 2018
10,593 posts
14.1 Years
I don't believe in "God" in any traditional sense. But my definition would be that there would have needed to be an introductory power in this universe to begin it, or maintain it, and I believe that this power would be God. I have no spiritual link to one right now. I believe in the progression of the human race by relying on humanism, as I do not believe we can rely on an intermediary being. However I don't think it suits the human mind that we are the sole race in this universe, that nothing is watching over us. However, I simply don't believe in any spiritual presence, but the presence of something more powerful than everything, is something I do believe in. And that is the closes thing to God I know.

HarrisonH

I doubt Pokemon will be a hit

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Posted November 12th, 2012
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Atheism is circular reasoning in action.
"I don't believe in faith, only things that can be proven. So I'm going to positively believe in the nonexistnce of God even though that cannot be proven, either."
Cool misconstrued definition of "atheist", bro. I've come to expect no less from you.

Atheism is not "believing there is no god", atheism is "not believing there is a god". It is the lack of belief, it is not a belief.

Margot

some things are that simple

they/he
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I wasn't raised religious, so therefore for me, I don't have any ties to a specific way of looking at god. However, I do believe there is a higher being. Whether or not that being had profits or wrote books or is the sole reason behind the creation of anything is beyond me. I do find religions to be fascinating, so I love learning about what different religions believe and I find myself agreeing with certain aspects of different ones, but I don't believe enough to be completely religious myself...if that makes sense. Even though I do believe in a higher being, I still consider myself agnostic because I don't know what to believe about the higher being.

FreakyLocz14

Conservative Patriot

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Cool misconstrued definition of "atheist", bro. I've come to expect no less from you.

Atheism is not "believing there is no god", atheism is "not believing there is a god". It is the lack of belief, it is not a belief.
All atheists I know personally believe that there is no God. Perhaps you are confusing pure atheism with agnostic atheism.

seeker

Ireland
Seen November 1st, 2019
Posted May 20th, 2018
10,593 posts
14.1 Years
All atheists I know personally believe that there is no God. Perhaps you are confusing pure atheism with agnostic atheism.
Actually, Atheists reject any belief from anyone, in any god. Including themselves, as you say, but Atheists don't have a belief, secularists have the belief, atheists have a "truth".

Livewire

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The root of this all arguement is the fact that we realy know nothing, if you think about it. Modern humans have been around for only 50,000 years - a geologic blink of an eye. We came up with organized religion, and science, as a way to understand the unknown. There are many things in the world we don't understand, and may never will. User Penatrait wins the thread so far - Our universe is so vast, deep and complex, that there may very well be some sort of greater force, whatever that may be, pulling the strings. Or not, it may all be a random assortment of events and happenstances.
Age 32
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All atheists I know personally believe that there is no God. Perhaps you are confusing pure atheism with agnostic atheism.
I don't know many atheists that consider themselves gnostic atheists. I'm sure there are some, but they're in the minority, because as you said, it's kind of ridiculous. And gnostic atheists can be called hard, positive, strong or explicit atheists, but not pure. Since atheism by itself is the lack of belief in gods. Nowhere is the definition believes there are no gods.

Alex

what will it be next?

Seen December 30th, 2022
Posted December 26th, 2022
6,407 posts
16.4 Years
Atheists don't go around blindly. There is no evidence of a God existing -- the world revolves as if there isn't one. I don't see how being atheist is cool or controversial or why someone would become atheist based off that, isn't that kind of.. stupid? I wouldn't become a Christian just because "everybody else is doing it." I don't believe in God. That's it.
You're implying every atheist necessarily blindly believes in atheism.

Tooth Fairy deniers can't prove that there is no Tooth Fairy. Can you prove that the Tooth Fairy doesn't exist? Would you be persuaded with that argument to think that the Tooth Fairy can exist?
You're dumbing down the issue at hand incredibly using this argument. The tooth fairy has nowhere near the same gravity as would a God if it were to exist. Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, the Boogeyman are all children's tales.

But keeping an open mind would mean you also are open to the idea that such a higher force doesn't exist. And I think it's quite the opposite in most homes; the close-minded household that one typically thinks of in the United States is one which dictates to its children that there is a God and there is no questioning that. It doesn't really strike me as something that happens in the reverse anywhere near as often (There is no God and you won't question that, Billy!)
Yes, and I've been an atheist. I've once believed that there is no God, based on all the arguments you atheists love to use. But I gradually changed my mind, just like I'm sure you did because you weren't an atheist from birth, and became Agnostic. That's what I would consider myself to be now. And, well (a) I'm not American, and (b) how do you know? With atheism rising so much these days, maybe we don't have families who are like that but we may very well see some that are. Atheism is a belief, just as religion is. If you're truly an atheist who revokes anyone else's beliefs (just like you are doing me), you would probably tell your son to not believe in a God. Atheists can be closed-minded too, you have to realize that. Just because you go against the norm doesn't mean you're immediately a Liberal.



Actually I think it's strange to think, based on that information, that one would think that there IS a God. What about our size in comparison to the universe should imply anything about the existence of God?
Use your imagination, buddy. Science can only tell you what we have access to now. We haven't been able to fly past the moon. This may be a bad argument because I'm implying ants and other bugs have a consciousness, but if they did, do you really think they could imagine who we are to them? Or even smaller than that, bacteria? We would be Gods to them. We would be the higher beings that are changing their habitats. When I was a kid, I would always plug ant-holes for fun. If they were conscious enough to contemplate that something did that, then don't you think they would come up with the same type of rationalization? There must be some sort of higher power.



Your argument is perplexing, given that you believe in a God and make this point. This is the sort of remark that most atheists would make to those who believe in God who feel that there's some afterlife they're going to--and one that strictly humans are going to, as most Christians don't believe animals have souls.

Rather, it is the argument of an atheist to say that it is the religious person who is self-centered and self-important to feel that they are entitled to an afterlife, or that there is a higher intelligence that created the universe (and man) in His own image.
You seem to think I'm of a religion. I'm not, I just believe what I do. I'm an agnostic.

Why would it be more surprising that there wasn't a higher power in the universe? Wouldn't it be the opposite, that the fact that we exist on this planet implies that life can exist elsewhere, but our lack of an ability to demonstrate that "He" exists makes His existence less plausible?
Simply because of the vastness of the Universe. I'm accepting beings and existences that can live without our natural restrictions. We live off of Carbon, Hydrogen and Oxygen mostly, some Nitrogen. Who says that our periodic elements are all that exist in the world? That's what exists on Earth sure, but prove to me that there is not more in the Universe. You don't know the composites of a greater being, neither do I. How can you deny a deity? I can't.

Okay, although why exactly you arbitrarily decide to believe in God is a mystery.

Where did God come from? Was he always here, or did He arise out of nothing? As Carl Sagan said, why not save a step and say the Universe was always here, or came from nothing?

What exactly is reassuring about the existence of a higher power, anyway?
I find it juvenile you ask me those questions knowing full well I can't answer them.

Dunno, what's more reassuring about believing in no God?

But if there is some higher power as you believe, would you not think He had some power or control over your life? Why would He not have the power to do so?

If He can't intervene in human affairs or establish in any way that He exists, then why presume that He exists at all? And of what need that He exists is there, again?
Oh, sir, you have all the right questions don't you. As I said, it's a tough one. But you gotta take the good with the bad. If there is a higher power, you can't deny that your life is really for nothing. That you have no control over it. I may believe in some sort of higher power, doesn't mean I'm content with the possibility 100%. Not everything is black and white.

I think this explains the reason for the similarities in arguments to those of secularists. It sounds like the mentality of an anti-conformist who doesn't want to be "just one of those atheists." It sounds to me like you more have a problem with populism than you do with not believing in a God. And if that's the case, then you should know that there are way more people believing in a God in the world than there are atheists. So if you have problems with looking like a conformist, you're in with the "wrong" crowd.
haha, I can see how that sounded that way. It was honestly just a remark I was making, something that I was noticing. I don't not believe in atheism just because I don't want to follow a trend. Of that, I assure you.

Saying that Atheists can't prove there is no God is quite possibly the dumbest excuse to use. Religion can't prove there is one. No one can prove anything regarding the existence of God, so that argument has no basis.
Not really. It's still true, no matter how "dumb" of an excuse it may be. And don't you think that, if you're a true believer in a religion, that the belief in the religion proves the God within itself? It may not be true for everyone, but, as you can plainly see from this thread, religion is a very personal thing. It does not matter of what belief you're from, if the next guy truly believes in something, that's all the proof he needs.
Age 32
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Posted August 14th, 2011
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13.6 Years
I don't see how teaching your kids atheism is an equivalent to teaching them a religion. One has no dogma, it's not really anything, it's a lack of something. 'Teaching atheism' is actually 'teaching that religion is false'. The evidence tends to point in that direction. Obviously not all of it, since some parts of religion are unfalsifiable. But science teaches us to ignore things that are unfalsifiable, since there is physically no way to know if they're true or not.

Regardless, a lot of atheists actually suggest that teaching kids directly atheism, removes the ability for a child to learn to think critically for themselves. Instead that it's a better idea to teach critical thinking skills and let that logically flow into them becoming atheists by themselves. Religion is only so effective because they are taught it at a young age, before they develop the ability to think critically. I realise there are some adult converts, but not nearly as much of the influence as the indoctrination of children.

FreakyLocz14

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Teaching kids "religion is false" and "there is no God" is teaching positive, gnostic beliefs. Saying "there is no proof that x religion is not true" or "there is no proof of the existance of God" is agnosticism. Atheism is a relogion.
Age 32
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Australia
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Posted August 14th, 2011
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13.6 Years
Saying "there is no proof that x religion is not true" or "there is no proof of the existance of God" is agnosticism.
It is also atheism (at least the second one). I think your definition of atheism and/or religion is skewed from the general standard somewhat.

atheism n.
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God
2. a lack of belief in the existence of God or gods

religion n.
1. a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny; "he lost his faith but not his morality"
2. an institution to express belief in a divine power; "he was raised in the Baptist religion"; "a member of his own faith contradicted him"

These two words are simply not compatible.