US Debt Ceiling crisis Page 2

Started by Guest123_x1 July 28th, 2011 1:59 PM
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Male
Miami
Seen September 4th, 2011
Posted August 7th, 2011
14 posts
11.8 Years
you guys are picking sides as badly as the sides can't come to a compromise. they're both at fault, if the republicans are too prideful to come to a compromise at this time, in the interest of the country the democrats should be the better side and just follow through with it. two things can happen, one it ends up turning out good, or two it fails and the republicans realize that they need to compromise. right now we just look stupid to the rest of the world.
Seen 2 Weeks Ago
Posted May 11th, 2014
610 posts
17.4 Years
The democrats are catering to the republicans' wants to some extent, though (see Reid's proposal). And the republicans are just waiting for the democrats to fold to them completely. Which may or may not happen. Obama still has the option of the 14th amendment, but White House keeps saying no.

I can't find the source that had the proposal outlined. If I do, I'll edit this post.


edit: this'll have to do

Boehner's proposal has the potential to run out of steam by campaigning season next year, thus starting this crisis all over again, and then two battles have to be handled at the same time. Not a good idea.
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Ivysaur

Grass dinosaur extraordinaire

Age 32
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Seen 1 Day Ago
Posted April 5th, 2023
21,076 posts
16.2 Years
The only plan I like so far is Cut, Cap, and Balance. While the debt ceiling does need to be raised, we also need to address the root of the problem: out of control spending.
Tax cuts caused 3tn of the debt. I think that's also something worth looking into. Oh, and two wars.


Source: The Guardian.

FreakyLocz14

Conservative Patriot

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Seen August 29th, 2018
Posted August 28th, 2018
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14 Years


Tax cuts caused 3tn of the debt. I think that's also something worth looking into. Oh, and two wars.


Source: The Guardian.
Obama has expanded the wars that Bush started, so the blame on that issue is mutual at best.

Raising taxes now on small businesses would skyrocket our already near 10% unemployment.

Alot of those things, like TARP and Medicare Part D, were Democratic proposals. They occurred during the 110th Congress. Bush condeded stuff to Congress, in exchange; they took stuff like impeachment off the table while Congress continued to fund the wars.
Seen August 15th, 2011
Posted August 15th, 2011
152 posts
11.8 Years
The only plan I like so far is Cut, Cap, and Balance. While the debt ceiling does need to be raised, we also need to address the root of the problem: out of control spending.
What I don't understand is why republicans want to make drastic cuts, when we could easily just make modest tax increases and modest cuts, instead of just focusing all of our attention on just the one.

Mr. X

It's... kinda effective?

Age 30
Male
London
Seen July 1st, 2022
Posted June 12th, 2019
2,389 posts
16.6 Years
The only plan I like so far is Cut, Cap, and Balance. While the debt ceiling does need to be raised, we also need to address the root of the problem: out of control spending.
Keyword, BALANCE. Its not balanced unless tax loop holes are removed as well.

That said, Democrats are NOT trying to increase taxes. They are trying to remove loopholes that the extremely rich (Read - Oil companies) abuse to they don't have to pay large portions of their taxes.

How the republicans think making groups pay taxes that they should be paying anyway is a increase i'll never know. You know what happens to (average) people who don't pay their taxes? Yep, they go to jail.

So, to begin the flame wars, stuff like this is why Communism would be better. At least then we are only ruled by one corrupted person, instead of entire groups. And, at least something would get done. Might not be the right or even the best thing but at least stuff would get done.

FreakyLocz14

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Seen August 29th, 2018
Posted August 28th, 2018
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14 Years
What I don't understand is why republicans want to make drastic cuts, when we could easily just make modest tax increases and modest cuts, instead of just focusing all of our attention on just the one.
Raising taxes on small businesses and large employers would destroy the job market.

"Wait. We only want to raise taxes on the wealthy."

Your definintion of "wealthy", anyone making $250,000 a year, encompasses most small businesses who are treated as individuals because they are incorporated. That's your nail salons, barber shops, mom and pop grocery stores, local restaurants, etc.

donavannj

Age 32
Male
'cause it get cold like Minnesota
Seen 4 Days Ago
Posted 1 Week Ago
22,513 posts
18.2 Years
Obama has expanded the wars that Bush started, so the blame on that issue is mutual at best.
So you consider a pull-out from Iraq as expanding the wars? You do have to keep in mind inflation when considering why expenses on something rise, you know.

Raising taxes on small businesses and large employers would destroy the job market.

"Wait. We only want to raise taxes on the wealthy."

Your definintion of "wealthy", anyone making $250,000 a year, encompasses modt small businesses who are treated as individuals because they are incorporated. That's your nail deshons, barber shops, mom and pop grocery stores, local restaurants, etc.
This issue is due to an oversimplification of the tax code brought about during Reagan's presidency. What needs to happen is that we need to redo the tax code such that individuals making $250,000 a year aren't in the same tax bracket as millionaires and billionaires, as that income level is increasingly becoming the "middle-class" due to a combination of inflation and a general trend where the earnings gap between the wealthy and the poor is rising considerably causing what is currently considered the middle-class to shrink.
whoops
Seen 2 Weeks Ago
Posted May 11th, 2014
610 posts
17.4 Years
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_DEBT_SHOWDOWN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-07-31-20-38-46

tl;dr no tax hikes for rich, no loopholes closed, a plan to last only until 2012, cuts to defense, debt ceiling raised, social security and medicare untouched

looks like you got what you wanted. or you didn't get what you didn't want. idk. at least there aren't any immediate cuts to entitlement programs though!

legitimate purposes
lol
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FreakyLocz14

Conservative Patriot

Male
Seen August 29th, 2018
Posted August 28th, 2018
3,497 posts
14 Years
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_DEBT_SHOWDOWN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-07-31-20-38-46

tl;dr no tax hikes for rich, no loopholes closed, a plan to last only until 2012, cuts to defense, debt ceiling raised, social security and medicare untouched

looks like you got what you wanted. or you didn't get what you didn't want. idk. at least there aren't any immediate cuts to entitlement programs though!


lol
We should have cut entitlements deeper. We don't have a revenue problem. We have a spending problem!

Ivysaur

Grass dinosaur extraordinaire

Age 32
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Seen 1 Day Ago
Posted April 5th, 2023
21,076 posts
16.2 Years
Except a spending issue can be fixed by getting more revenue? The US still has a lower tax burden than the average of the OECD countries. It's just 0.2, but that's a lot of money looking at the US' GPD.
Age 33
Male
United States
Seen May 26th, 2022
Posted October 11th, 2021
262 posts
14.1 Years
We don't have a revenue problem.
Yes we do! Tax rates are at some of their lowest! Thank the Bush Tax cuts and that horrible tax cut "deal" the President caved in on last December.

We have a spending problem!
End the wars we're fighting and repeal the Bush tax cuts!

You say things are Democratic proposals and that President Obama extended the Bush Tax cuts or expanded the wars as if that absolves them of being issues; it doesn't lol.

The President is so weak and it's an embarrassment. He capitulates to the Republicans at every turn. Who cares what the President did or what the Democrats supposedly proposed--the wars need to be ended and those tax cuts need to be repealed. To have the knee-jerk reaction that something is what the other "side" did is just partisan hackery and not an interest in a real debate.

Also "Cut, Cap and Balance" is just balancing the budget on the backs of the middle class and asks nothing from the wealthiest in this country, those who have been doing tremendously well in the midst of an economic crisis.

You could go with the Progressive Caucus' plan that Bernie Sanders advocates, but I'm afraid you'll just dismiss raising taxes on the wealthy and cutting the military budget as nothing more than a job-killing crusade or some such nonsense.

Such is the way of arguing with a conservative partisan.

Mr. X

It's... kinda effective?

Age 30
Male
London
Seen July 1st, 2022
Posted June 12th, 2019
2,389 posts
16.6 Years
Just for the hell of it, Mr. X's plan to fix our revenue issues. And other various things.

1. Slash military spending drasticly. There is no need to keep a entire force of legalized killers and/or rapists on government payrole (You hear of the iraqui women that some sodiers raped just for the hell of it? Yah.) That said, if we DO get attacked then send out the missiles. Blow our enemies all to hell.

2. As Loz said earlier, get rid of tax brackets. Lets intoduce a more stable/fair/reliable tax system. Lets say... We tax you $.05 for every dollar you make. You make 36000 a year you pay 1800 in INCOME tax (Not taking into account property taxes)

3. Tax churches, or at least, those that buy freaking jumbo jets saying that they are going to use it to do 'gods' work. There is no need for a church to have a jet... What they gonna do, drop bibles over some country to spread the word?

4. Death taxes. Make them just like my above tax idea, $.05 for every dollar.

5. Get the rid of pork barrel spending. Almost all of it is useless (Pickle technology for example... really wtf?)

6. Redo SSI completely. Instead of each person drawing from a big fund, they will draw from their own funds. Lets say that you work for 50 years, and every payday (assuming 1 month) $50 of your check was put into your fund. You retire, you get the entire fund. Seems fair to me.

7. Lets STOP buying oil from other countries. If we taped our oil deposits more we would have enough to last us for a good long time. That said, no need to give our money (that can be used for other things) to some middle east country.

8. Lets keep religion seperate from politics. If you are agenst something, give us reasons that are NOT related to the bible or your religious bedtime story of choice.

9. With religion removed, we can now research more technologies that were previously not allowed to ONLY because of religious objections.

10. Increase the required milage per gallon on new cars immediately (within 5 years) and have the minimum millage increase by one mile per year. This will sve people money that they can spend on goods to help the economy.

11. What ever happened to american made goods? 5 out of every ten items I buy (except for food stuffs) was made in china. We DONT need to import american designed goods from another country people. How about we make our own damn junk from now on? This will also help solve the jobs issue.

12. Lets get rid of some of these mexicans who jump the boarder. Make it a requirement for ANYONE who is looking for ANY job to provide a valid id, birth certificate and if applicable a work visa, naturilization papers, or any other legal document showing just how you are a american citizen. You hire someone who isn't a legal citizen, you get tossed into jail or have your entire buisnuess shut down.

13. This is not related to the above idea's for jobs and revenue but do we REALLY need all these golf courses? Just land going to waste for a stupid sport (Really... Hit a ball, chase after it, hit it again... This is a sport why?)

14. As above, but for nascar... Really, watching a car going 200 miles in a circle? I admit that its proably one of the only places you can see a 26 car pile up and not be in it but still... this excitiing event rarely happens.)
Seen 2 Weeks Ago
Posted May 11th, 2014
610 posts
17.4 Years
^notsureifcompletelyserious.jpg

Spoiler:
3 - Agree.
5 - Agree.
6 - Isn't this 401(k) or am I high or something?

7 - Short answer, it's better to waste others' reserves before ours.
8 - It's called being non-conservative.
9 - See above.
10 - Minimal increase.
11 - If you want prices to be 9128648291x more expensive, sure.
12 - Good in principle except no one is going to follow it. Like how it is right now.
13 - LMFAO
14 - LMFAO
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FreakyLocz14

Conservative Patriot

Male
Seen August 29th, 2018
Posted August 28th, 2018
3,497 posts
14 Years
Just for the hell of it, Mr. X's plan to fix our revenue issues. And other various things.

1. Slash military spending drasticly. There is no need to keep a entire force of legalized killers and/or rapists on government payrole (You hear of the iraqui women that some sodiers raped just for the hell of it? Yah.) That said, if we DO get attacked then send out the missiles. Blow our enemies all to hell.

2. As Loz said earlier, get rid of tax brackets. Lets intoduce a more stable/fair/reliable tax system. Lets say... We tax you $.05 for every dollar you make. You make 36000 a year you pay 1800 in INCOME tax (Not taking into account property taxes)

3. Tax churches, or at least, those that buy freaking jumbo jets saying that they are going to use it to do 'gods' work. There is no need for a church to have a jet... What they gonna do, drop bibles over some country to spread the word?

4. Death taxes. Make them just like my above tax idea, $.05 for every dollar.

5. Get the rid of pork barrel spending. Almost all of it is useless (Pickle technology for example... really wtf?)

6. Redo SSI completely. Instead of each person drawing from a big fund, they will draw from their own funds. Lets say that you work for 50 years, and every payday (assuming 1 month) $50 of your check was put into your fund. You retire, you get the entire fund. Seems fair to me.

7. Lets STOP buying oil from other countries. If we taped our oil deposits more we would have enough to last us for a good long time. That said, no need to give our money (that can be used for other things) to some middle east country.

8. Lets keep religion seperate from politics. If you are agenst something, give us reasons that are NOT related to the bible or your religious bedtime story of choice.

9. With religion removed, we can now research more technologies that were previously not allowed to ONLY because of religious objections.

10. Increase the required milage per gallon on new cars immediately (within 5 years) and have the minimum millage increase by one mile per year. This will sve people money that they can spend on goods to help the economy.

11. What ever happened to american made goods? 5 out of every ten items I buy (except for food stuffs) was made in china. We DONT need to import american designed goods from another country people. How about we make our own damn junk from now on? This will also help solve the jobs issue.

12. Lets get rid of some of these mexicans who jump the boarder. Make it a requirement for ANYONE who is looking for ANY job to provide a valid id, birth certificate and if applicable a work visa, naturilization papers, or any other legal document showing just how you are a american citizen. You hire someone who isn't a legal citizen, you get tossed into jail or have your entire buisnuess shut down.

13. This is not related to the above idea's for jobs and revenue but do we REALLY need all these golf courses? Just land going to waste for a stupid sport (Really... Hit a ball, chase after it, hit it again... This is a sport why?)

14. As above, but for nascar... Really, watching a car going 200 miles in a circle? I admit that its proably one of the only places you can see a 26 car pile up and not be in it but still... this excitiing event rarely happens.)
While we do have some common ground, I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree with you on some points.

1) No death taxes! These taxes are unfair and wrong. You paid taxes while you earned that money, and you paid taxes while you saved it. You shouldn't have to pay taxes three times on the same money. Twice is bad enough.

2) Nonprofits are tax-exempt for a reason. They provide charitable services to the needy. We shouldn't take money away from that.

3) Taking religion out doesn't have anything to do with fiscal issues, but you can't prevent people from voting just because some of their decisions might be motivated by religion. That's unconstitutional and extreme.

Mario The World Champion

Tepig!

Age 41
Male
Western Massachusetts
Seen April 17th, 2017
Posted March 15th, 2017
3,299 posts
18.4 Years
I'm all for not buying anymore oil from the Middle East, but we can't utilize our resources we might have because the bleeding hearts will start crying for Johnny Polar Bear in Alaska and the fear of another BP oil spill in the gulf. The Gulf coast is probably still paying the price for BP's stupidity!

However, you missed one point, Mr. X. We should stop sending money to Afghanistan! Have you heard of the reports that some of that money is going to terrorists? We gave them probably over a billion dollars and it sickens me that some of that money is being used to kill our troops over there.

About Golf Courses and NASCAR tracks, I don't give a crap about golf, but NASCAR... Why not revamp the older tracks to increase the capacity to prevent newer, cookie cutter tracks from being built. And nowadays people don't want a NASCAR track in their area, all thanks to NIMBY. As you can see, I'm a NASCAR fan.

And now I'm going to filibuster whether to go to sleep or not.
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aperso

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Posted March 19th, 2012
171 posts
12.3 Years
There is a bigger problem if the sente in the US can't fix the problem the bigger problem is the whole world could become in danger of a very expencive bill.
(If only everyone knew how to share fairly there'd be no need for money and there wouldn't be this big problem)

Livewire

Male
Sunnyshore City
Seen December 3rd, 2022
Posted August 2nd, 2019
14,091 posts
13.8 Years
We should have cut entitlements deeper. We don't have a revenue problem. We have a spending problem!
I don't even.

The revenue problem is the whole reason we're in this mess. The federal government can't pay its bill because it receives next to nothing in tax revenue. It's why under Clinton we had that nice fat budget surplus.

aperso

Please feel free to VM random fruit types.

Age 24
I live nowhere
Seen June 22nd, 2022
Posted March 19th, 2012
171 posts
12.3 Years
From what the BBC have said:
The US sente have decided to increase the defaset so the goverment can pay off their debt

Esper

California
Seen June 30th, 2018
Posted June 30th, 2018
It passed in the Senate. Now maybe we can get back to having a government doing something useful.

I really, I mean really, hope that the tea partiers aren't going to do this to every single thing they don't like. I'm quite disgusted that they could take the economy hostage like they did, and get away with a lot of it. I blame Boehner and other less crazy Republicans for not standing up to them, but also Obama for bending over backwards to a lot of these outrageous demands. I know some Republicans are going to be upset that they couldn't stick the knife in deeper, but really, y'all got more than you deserved.

FreakyLocz14

Conservative Patriot

Male
Seen August 29th, 2018
Posted August 28th, 2018
3,497 posts
14 Years
It passed in the Senate. Now maybe we can get back to having a government doing something useful.

I really, I mean really, hope that the tea partiers aren't going to do this to every single thing they don't like. I'm quite disgusted that they could take the economy hostage like they did, and get away with a lot of it. I blame Boehner and other less crazy Republicans for not standing up to them, but also Obama for bending over backwards to a lot of these outrageous demands. I know some Republicans are going to be upset that they couldn't stick the knife in deeper, but really, y'all got more than you deserved.
They did the right thing. They knew Obama would cave eventually, so they successfully stopped taxes from being raised.