Woman arrested after racist rant on tram Page 2

Started by Captain Fabio November 29th, 2011 3:02 AM
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  • 127 replies

Nihilego

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scotland
Seen September 28th, 2018
Posted March 16th, 2018
8,874 posts
12.1 Years
I like this Woman, I believe she shouldnt have gone as far as she did, and she does deserve it. But it was a nice watch.
It almost sounds like you're supporting what she's saying when you say that you like her lmao.

Anyway, it's times like this when I'm completely glad we don't have the right to free speech since if we did, wouldn't that mean that she could have got away with this? Idk if an American or someone else from a country with free speech would like to correct me then please do. But I don't see how they could have arrested her if we did have that right.

...that said though I'm kinda surprised that she was arrested. She did something that, unfortunately, a lot of people overly proud to be British to the point of discrimination do every day and the police are well aware of that. I'm guessing it was just some sort of demonstration to say "yeah this isn't on". Not that I think she shouldn't have been arrested ofc, but I'm surprised that she did.

FreakyLocz14

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Posted August 28th, 2018
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Come on now, being arrested after committing an offense is standard in any country. You don't get arrested during an offense normally, not unless a police officer is on the scene at that exact moment, you get arrested AFTER the offense has been committed. So yes, getting arrested after committing an offense is constitutional. It's done every single day, in every single state, in every single town, in every single county.
There are constitutional limits when offenses are based on speech. Nothing criminal by American standards came out of her mouth. As someone who has been studying law for several years now, I can tell you that what she said is protected under Freedom Of Speech. The only exceptions that could apply are fighting words or dangerous words, both of which require the danger to be imminent at that very moment. Once the incident ends, the opportunity for the police to intervene is gone.

Esper

California
Seen June 30th, 2018
Posted June 30th, 2018
I don't see what would be the difference if she was arrested on the spot or days later. If what she did was worthy of being arrested at the time, but there were no police around, does that mean she gets away with it just because it took them time to find her?

The police making examples of individuals whose crimes become widely publicized is just a matter of course. They can't not do anything when everyone can see someone committing a crime. So the only real question here is whether what she did was a crime - not when or how she was arrested - and I still think what she did was trying to start a fight.

Mr. X

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I don't buy that argument. It seems like this is going nowhere, so let me close with a famous quote:

"Those who would sacrifice essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin

In other words, you're willing to curb freedom of speech in order to keep people from being offended, which you believe might lead to a fight or something. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.
We sacrificed essential liberty when the PATRIOT act was passed to purchase a little temporary safety. If you believe your above words true then, therefor, we deserve neither liberty or safety.

And yes, I am. Im willing to make sure that people are not allowed to spread hatred of other people through the use of speech. While you see nothing wrong with people being able to spread hatred of other people, I do and I don't want the speech to grow to the point that America has it's own Hitler who wants to kill all *insert minority here*.

Oryx

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I don't see what would be the difference if she was arrested on the spot or days later. If what she did was worthy of being arrested at the time, but there were no police around, does that mean she gets away with it just because it took them time to find her?

The police making examples of individuals whose crimes become widely publicized is just a matter of course. They can't not do anything when everyone can see someone committing a crime. So the only real question here is whether what she did was a crime - not when or how she was arrested - and I still think what she did was trying to start a fight.
I think the idea is - the arrest isn't to punish her for speaking that way, but to keep a fight from occurring. And if a fight didn't happen, then there's not much reason to arrest her for her speech, since it's wasn't enough of fighting words to cause a fight. That's how I see it anyway.


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FreakyLocz14

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Posted August 28th, 2018
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I think the idea is - the arrest isn't to punish her for speaking that way, but to keep a fight from occurring. And if a fight didn't happen, then there's not much reason to arrest her for her speech, since it's wasn't enough of fighting words to cause a fight. That's how I see it anyway.
Exactly.

The only law acceptable is to prevent a fight. Punishing someone for the content of their speech is unacceptable.

Livewire

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Sunnyshore City
Seen December 3rd, 2022
Posted August 2nd, 2019
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They should take her child away from her and leave here in jail for all I care. Normal, civilized people won't miss her much. Not like she's a contributing member of society anyways.

Overlord Drakow

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Posted November 5th, 2019
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They should take her child away from her and leave here in jail for all I care. Normal, civilized people won't miss her much. Not like she's a contributing member of society anyways.
I believe she made the claim that she has a working job, in which case she would probably be contributing to society one way or another. So I would also argue that there would be some people who should miss her too if she got jailed. That being said, I sure as hell am not one of them.

Livewire

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Posted August 2nd, 2019
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I believe she made the claim that she has a working job, in which case she would probably be contributing to society one way or another. So I would also argue that there would be some people who should miss her too if she got jailed. That being said, I sure as hell am not one of them.
Having a job by no means makes you a contributing member of society. Convicted felons in prison, have jobs. Guys like Kim Jong Il and Mamoud Akhmendinejad have jobs.

Overlord Drakow

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Having a job by no means makes you a contributing member of society. Convicted felons in prison, have jobs. Guys like Kim Jong Il and Mamoud Akhmendinejad have jobs.
Which is why I used the term "probably" though perhaps the term "possibly" would have been more appropriate in this instance. Regardless I find it unlikely that she was a convicted felon or anything of that nature even with taking into account the behaviour she has displayed in that video.

Esper

California
Seen June 30th, 2018
Posted June 30th, 2018
They should take her child away from her and leave here in jail for all I care. Normal, civilized people won't miss her much. Not like she's a contributing member of society anyways.
Perhaps some court-mandated sensitivity training would be a more suitable punishment for her than putting her in jail.

FreakyLocz14

Conservative Patriot

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Seen August 29th, 2018
Posted August 28th, 2018
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14 Years
Perhaps some court-mandated sensitivity training would be a more suitable punishment for her than putting her in jail.
For what? For speaking her mind? You know that your have every right to like or to hate anybody you want in my country. You have the right to express those opinions. People who disagree with you and don't think very highly of you also have the right to tell you what they think of you in return.

Maybe if she got into a brawl, some anger management would be in order. Jail doesn't do anything to fix the root causes of crime, and usually turns people into even more hardened criminals. That's a debate that warrants a whole thread of its own, though.

Livewire

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Posted August 2nd, 2019
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13.8 Years
For what? For speaking her mind? You know that your have every right to like or to hate anybody you want in my country. You have the right to express those opinions. People who disagree with you and don't think very highly of you also have the right to tell you what they think of you in return.

Maybe if she got into a brawl, some anger management would be in order. Jail doesn't do anything to fix the root causes of crime, and usually turns people into even more hardened criminals. That's a debate that warrants a whole thread of its own, though.
Ok, seriously. Enough. Notice how things got physical towards the end there? That's why you can't say crap like that. You will start a conflict, which leads to violence. That's how people get hurt. Which you can get arrested for too.

lacella

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Posted January 4th, 2012
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11.5 Years
she's not a criminal, she's socially retarded. in fact, she should thank any cop who removed her from the train. if they'd left her there, she probably would have been beaten up.

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So, if I were to punch her in the face for it, would she then get in trouble for "starting a brawl"? Obviously I would, but would she? What warrants going 'too far'?

Yes, there is freedom of speech. There is also using that freedom very, very irresponsibly. She could have easily started a fight there, and is very lucky she did not. Words can easily start trouble, which is why it is illegal to use your words to do so. We do not live in some utopia where one can say what they want and expect no recourse. She has every right to say what she did. We have the righ tto disagree. She has the right to disagree back. In an ideal world, that would be enough. But this world isn't ideal, and she is very lucky to have not been attacked on the spot.

The law only works when people agree to be bound by it.

If you want to praise America for being completley free, then fine. Don't get mad when you have a trail of bodies from people who used that freedom loosely.
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Stop the crap about free speech, no one should have the right to burst out language like that, in a public confined area, especially with children on that tram. She should have had her child taken away from her, poor thing, she obviously didn't think about him before she started that. She probably thought it was okay to talk such crap because she had a child in her hand. I'd have guessed someone would have attacked her if she hadn't had that child with her, did you see what guy behind her?
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So, if I were to punch her in the face for it, would she then get in trouble for "starting a brawl"? Obviously I would, but would she? What warrants going 'too far'?
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I can't stand racism. I am sorry but I can't. I would have smacked some black into her, regardless of a child was there or not.

And now I can see why you get arrested for public intoxication.
Seen July 22nd, 2016
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For what? For speaking her mind?
She was charged with racially aggravated harassment. That goes way above just speaking her mind.
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What a waste of resources and our air.

I can't stand people like this. I feel sorry for her child and her family. People like this just shouldn't have children.

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For every action there is an opposite and equal reaction.

I'm not saying that I would, but there are those that will. The law is not a failproof shield that protects at all times.
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I'm not saying that I would, but there are those that will. The law is not a failproof shield that protects at all times.
No law really does. All it can hope to do is provide some form of deterrent to make others think twice before engaging in such behaviour. And for certain, the freedom to speak your mind can and does carry with it consequences. I mean, call someone a really nasty name to their face and you could probably expect--at the very least--a slap across the face.
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Free speech is an incredibly sensitive topic, and too many people misunderstand what is meant by "free speech".

Free Speech is the right to state your views in a civil and reasonable manner, regardless of how repulsive or outlandish they may be, and so long as no personal threats are stated.

What this woman was spewing is not, and should not be, classified as free speech. She fails to show any degree of rationality or civility, and her drivel consists of nothing but personal attacks, extremely offensive remarks, and irrational statements.

That said, I do not believe that hate speech is grounds for arrest. It is a good reason to monitor the person and prevent them from harming others, but, though hate speech can and should be censored (though "censorship" has become a dirty word), I do not believe it should be considered criminal.

Therefore, though I believe this woman deserves a swift kick to the teeth, I believe that she should be arrested for disturbing the peace, which she most certainly was doing, rather than her speech.

This woman is simply a bigot, a shallow-minded idiot. If her stupidity was a criminal offense, half of the global population would be behind bars. To play the Devil's Advocate, we have no knowledge of her life outside of this short clip. Perhaps she is simply a bitter white supremacist, or perhaps she was having a horrific day, made worse by whatever the hell was affecting her mind. Honestly, I wonder what would happen if everybody was caught at their worst, and put on the Internet.

She deserves punitive action, but something like this should not merit any serious punishment, not for such a small first offense.


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FreakyLocz14

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Free speech is an incredibly sensitive topic, and too many people misunderstand what is meant by "free speech".

Free Speech is the right to state your views in a civil and reasonable manner, regardless of how repulsive or outlandish they may be, and so long as no personal threats are stated.

What this woman was spewing is not, and should not be, classified as free speech. She fails to show any degree of rationality or civility, and her drivel consists of nothing but personal attacks, extremely offensive remarks, and irrational statements.

That said, I do not believe that hate speech is grounds for arrest. It is a good reason to monitor the person and prevent them from harming others, but, though hate speech can and should be censored (though "censorship" has become a dirty word), I do not believe it should be considered criminal.

Therefore, though I believe this woman deserves a swift kick to the teeth, I believe that she should be arrested for disturbing the peace, which she most certainly was doing, rather than her speech.

This woman is simply a bigot, a shallow-minded idiot. If her stupidity was a criminal offense, half of the global population would be behind bars. To play the Devil's Advocate, we have no knowledge of her life outside of this short clip. Perhaps she is simply a bitter white supremacist, or perhaps she was having a horrific day, made worse by whatever the hell was affecting her mind. Honestly, I wonder what would happen if everybody was caught at their worst, and put on the Internet.

She deserves punitive action, but something like this should not merit any serious punishment, not for such a small first offense.
While I disagreed that with your belief that hate speech should be censored, I'm curious as to how you would enforce such censorship other than arrest?

She seems to be intoxicated on alcohol and/or drugs to me rather than her being genuinely hateful. She's obviously on something.

I'd also like to quote someone I quoted often. He said that "We don't have a freedom of speech so that we can talk about the weather. We have freedom of speech so that we can say very controversial things." This means that no matter how outlandish, unorthodox, or offensive your opinions are, you have the right to express them. This woman is clearly expressing her opinion on immigration in the UK.

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I'd also like to quote someone I quoted often. He said that "We don't have a freedom of speech so that we can talk about the weather. We have freedom of speech so that we can say very controversial things." This means that no matter how outlandish, unorthodox, or offensive your opinions are, you have the right to express them. This woman is clearly expressing her opinion on immigration in the UK.
Yeah, she's expressing her opinions. However, she is expressing them in a hateful, violent manner, which is not what you are allowed to do. I'm all for being able to state my opinion, no matter how controversial it is. However, if you use that opinion to be deliberately defamatory - and inflammatory - regarding an individual or group, I believe you should rightly be punished. If she has a concern with the state of the country because of foreign immigrants, she should have the right to complain about it, yes. She should complain by expressing her concerns to people who can do something about it, rather than launching into a loud, explicit tirade on a public tram full of the very people she has an issue with.
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