Fifth Generation Are Pokémon slaves to humans? Team Plasma thinks so. Travel the Unova region and prove them wrong in Black & White, and then return two years later in Black 2 & White 2.

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  #76    
Old February 4th, 2012 (5:03 AM).
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    I think the third games will come out on both the DS and 3DS platform. I think this because DS games are still going strong and not many people I know have the 3DS. so both is very likely in my opinion.
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    Old February 4th, 2012 (4:01 PM).
    The 100 Mega Shock The 100 Mega Shock is offline
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    I don't know about you, but when the 2012 release line-up consists almost entirely of puzzle games, sports games and tie ins to movies / TV shows, then I consider that DS games are no longer going strong.
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      #78    
    Old February 4th, 2012 (6:26 PM).
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      I asked Gamestop to print up coming Releases for the DS, 3DS, and the other three systems I owned. The DS list had like 5 games. Mostly small ones that no one will likely hear about.
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        #79    
      Old February 6th, 2012 (9:07 AM).
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        GameFly lists 13 games as "coming soon" to NDS. Not one of them is first party. I think it's safe to assume by now, NDS is dead or dying. 3DS is now, and has been since launch, the top priority handheld platform for The Big N.
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        Old February 6th, 2012 (9:42 AM).
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          I hope its on the ads cos that obviously means 3d pokemon hehe and tbh it will most probably be as that will make people buy a 3ds although I wouldn't be surprised if it came out on dsi swell
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            #81    
          Old February 6th, 2012 (6:03 PM).
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            It's probably going to be 3DS. Definitely not Wii, there never has been a "real" pokemon
            game on the Wii. And DSi and DS games are generally the same, except for the camera.
            Though I believe Nobunaga's Ambition+Pokemon is for DS, a third game would probably
            be on the 3DS...
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              #82    
            Old February 6th, 2012 (11:08 PM).
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              Well Pokemon rumble II was on the 3Ds...so the spin off are somewhat evenly split.
              I can't imagine how much improvements gf can make if they stick with the ds...there isn't much room left (at least I doubt there is) on the ds cards for big graphic changes to fix the pixally moveable sprites...
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                #83    
              Old February 7th, 2012 (9:43 AM).
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                Guaranteed 3DS, with a small chance of a less refined version for the DS; e.g. less features, worse graphics, etc.
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                Old February 7th, 2012 (1:23 PM).
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                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by Lewny View Post
                  I hope its on the ads cos that obviously means 3d pokemon hehe and tbh it will most probably be as that will make people buy a 3ds although I wouldn't be surprised if it came out on dsi swell
                  If you are talking about 3d models then no they will not use those. Gf have said already they will stay with sprites for art reasons.
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                    #85    
                  Old February 7th, 2012 (1:26 PM).
                  The 100 Mega Shock The 100 Mega Shock is offline
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                  No they haven't, and you still haven't provided that source we asked for. But sure, take random word of mouth over technical analysis and deduction.
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                    #86    
                  Old February 7th, 2012 (2:24 PM).
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                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by Attribule View Post
                    Guaranteed 3DS, with a small chance of a less refined version for the DS; e.g. less features, worse graphics, etc.
                    History begs to differ. Aside from Crystal, every other 3rd game has been on the same system as the first 2. It makes no sense to put the 3rd game onto a new system. Why? Lets look at it logically:

                    1. The first two versions were on the NDS, and since GF has a habit of making the third game able to interact with the prior two, it stands to reason that they will put it on the same system.

                    2. Since the 3DS is still new, GF would be hesitant to put the third game onto the system, since it could potentially lower their fanbase. That is why when the Wii first came out, Nintendo still published Gamecube games. It is the same reason why there were still GBA games coming out when the NDS was released.

                    3. The system servers would be incompatible with 3D sprites. You cannot transfer a 2D object into a 3D environment without specific programs and commands, which can take over a year to complete. The same works in reverse.

                    4. The output files would be different formats, and thus unable to be transferred to older or new games. This means they would need to make so sort of "Pal Park" program to transfer Pokemon from NDS games to 3DS games.

                    5. The time it would take to encode everything from the NDS file formats to 3DS file formats would take the better part of a year, because of different commands and dimensions.

                    With all that in mind, it is much easier to do as they always have and use the codes they already designed on the NDS, and build around that. Also, before anyone mentions the old Coliseum games that used the GB games, you must remember that those were console games, and had build in codes to render the pokemon from set codes and commands.
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                      #87    
                    Old February 7th, 2012 (2:39 PM). Edited February 7th, 2012 by The 100 Mega Shock.
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                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by Beloved View Post
                    History begs to differ. Aside from Crystal, every other 3rd game has been on the same system as the first 2. It makes no sense to put the 3rd game onto a new system. Why? Lets look at it logically
                    The 3DS isn't 'new', it will have been out for over a year and a half by this August.

                    Programming isn't an arcane art shrouded in secrecy and confusion. Game Freak have talented and experienced people working for them - including staff who have been with the company since the development of Red and Green. Lesser companies have taken games designed for one system and moved development over to a successor system because their tools (Software Development Kits, etc) will have been designed to accommodate this.

                    Not to mention that outside of battle sequences (Which have already been designed and implemented in 3D on other projects), Pokémon's world already works with 3D polygonal graphics building the game maps. Or that Game Freak can work alongside other developers who already have experience displaying 3-dimensonal Pokémon graphics on the 3DS along with implementing many more features of the 3DS (Seriously Pokédex 3D feels more like an engine test polished up and released as a promotion than anything else).

                    A lack of direct compatibility from DS to 3DS is going to have to be accepted, but it does not sound like a particularly hard task to develop an application that resides in the 3DS's memory, can interface with B/W cartridges and copy Pokémon data across to new game save files.

                    You aren't looking at anything 'logically' because you're ignoring the current state of Nintendo's* gaming market. They have announced one DS game for publishing this year, and that's an esoteric Pokémon spinoff that nobody knows if it will sell particularly well or even get a Western release. You've also conveniently failed to mention that Nintendo historically stop releasing big-name games for systems by about a year after their successors hit the market - this applied to the Gamecube and Game Boy Advance, undermining the point you were trying to make since we're just about coming up the 3DS's one year aniversary.



                    Finally, I just want to mention that Sony's Playstation Vita system goes on sale worldwide in just two weeks time. Now Nintendo faces direct competition in the handheld gaming market not just from the cross-over between the smartphone market. They want lucrative properties that they can use in order to advertise their 3DS system to people who might be on the fence about purchasing a 3DS or a Vita.


                    *All references to 'Nintendo' are referring to their Japanese division only.
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                      #88    
                    Old February 7th, 2012 (3:07 PM).
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                      Again, the main point of my argument was the fact that GF, not Nintendo, already has the base code set, and will most likely use that. As for Nintendo's gaming market, GF is not Nintendo, thus making your arguments a bit shortsighted. GameFreaks determine when the games come out, and on what system, not Nintendo. All Nintendo does is publish them, they have little to no part in the coding or creation of the games. And please note that I am talking about the Pokemon games.

                      Given the fact that the code already exists for Gray on the NDS, it is cheaper to reuse that code rather than try to make a new code. There is a reason why it takes so long to write a game, and its not all the storyline, characters, or concept art.
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                        #89    
                      Old February 7th, 2012 (3:17 PM).
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                        Seeing with Resident Evil Revelations how the graphics in the 3DS easily surpass those in the PS2 i really don't want to see now new Pokemon game with it being completely 3D or nicely enough rendered at least. Also seeing how the chips in a 3DS game cartridge can retain with ease 3gb+ of data whereas a DS game normally goes for about 128mb (games like pokemon, other games go for less), i believe they can either do the double compatibility games or just make a completely new game with a huge leap in mechanics which will also allow at the same time for newer challenges inside the game with this improvements.

                        I mean i personally think that with everything the 3DS allows in the palm of your hands they would go for making something that wont really reflect the power of the device or probably GameFreak should finally let the reins loose to another company in this? I love them and the games have brought a lot to me but still they are raining over places already wet if they continue making the new games DS and don't adapt to the 3DS.

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                          #90    
                        Old February 7th, 2012 (4:13 PM). Edited February 7th, 2012 by The 100 Mega Shock.
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                        Quote:
                        Originally Posted by Beloved View Post
                        GameFreaks determine when the games come out, and on what system, not Nintendo.
                        Do they? Last I checked Game Freak can't manufacture game cartridges or handle production and distribution on their own. They can't release officially certified DS software independently either. Let alone the logistics of who holds the purse strings when it comes to paying the staff to make games.

                        Neither do Game Freak hold exclusive ownership of Pokémon.


                        Besides, why are we assuming Game Freak would want to make a DS game anyway? They've been making DS games for 6 years, at some point people will be saying "We've gone as far as possible against the limits of this tech, we need to continue the strength of our brand by starting production on new technologies that allow us to design and make better games". We can't use arguments like "They've always released the third game on the same system as the originals!" because that's speculative reasoning.

                        The DS broke the pattern of system releases since the GBC, where the release dates of Nintendo's new systems happened to be around the same time Game Freak finished off a generation with their enhanced version of a game. As the DS had such a long lifetime in comparison to the GBC and GBA, it just so happens that Game Freak's development schedule resulted in Black and White being ready in time to release on the DS, but ready too early to make any serious plans about 3DS development. The DS's long life is also the greatest problem - it shows its' age compared to today's electronics market, and even with the attempt in the DSi to patch up some of the fundamental flaws, Nintendo wants to get rid of the thing as soon as they can.
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                          #91    
                        Old February 7th, 2012 (10:03 PM).
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                          ...............

                          Do any of you OWN a 3DS?

                          If so...you should all know that the 3DS has a function for Download and Play that forces it into a DS style screen with Normal DS Functions. It temporarily switches. I use my 3DS and my DS to transfer and the 3DS is always receiving from my DS. The 3DS can connect to Normal DS transfer programming and wireless messages.

                          It just can't Pictochat. That's the only thing I can't seem to bring up.

                          Also as Megashock said (sorta) Nintendo sets what games come out for what system and the companies that make the games have to follow suit. Nintendo issues out a contract and the developing company has to meet the standards set by the contract. If it says they need a game to come out for the 3DS, then Gamefreak will have to work on a game for the 3DS or they won't make any money as they won't have anything to sell.
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                            #92    
                          Old February 7th, 2012 (10:50 PM).
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                            Quote:
                            Originally Posted by The 100 Mega Shock View Post
                            No they haven't, and you still haven't provided that source we asked for. But sure, take random word of mouth over technical analysis and deduction.
                            Yes they have. I will have the source later once I find it. It was said a while back. If you want to know about it go talk to serebii himself. They wouldnt use moving sprites just for one set of games. You do not change the images of Pokemon to a whole new level mid generation.
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                              #93    
                            Old February 9th, 2012 (11:12 AM).
                            The 100 Mega Shock The 100 Mega Shock is offline
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                            That's a lot of words for stalling.

                            Honestly, though, this is a question I've been wondering for a while.

                            What is a 'Generation'?

                            What is it other than a vaguely marketing related and often fan term, rarely used officially, that refers to a set of games that starts with a brand-new title and ends when the next original game comes out?

                            Does it hold any special meaning to Nintendo and Game Freak? Or do they see their games in terms of individual titles for them to do as much as they can on - or perhaps looking at their games in terms of the device they're made for, and the possibilities they have with it?

                            To steadfastly claim that a 'Generation' of Pokémon games must strictly cling to certain restrictions in resembling their predecessors, regardless of other circumstances, smacks of over-zealous speculation to me. I stand by my opinion that we're at point in time where we can't keep looking back at the old patterns and not acknowledge that a lot of things happening right now are different to what they were in the past.

                            A little change never hurt anybody.
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                              #94    
                            Old February 9th, 2012 (11:58 AM).
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                              Quote:
                              Originally Posted by rocky505 View Post
                              If you are talking about 3d models then no they will not use those. Gf have said already they will stay with sprites for art reasons.
                              Quote:
                              Originally Posted by The 100 Mega Shock View Post
                              No they haven't, and you still haven't provided that source we asked for. But sure, take random word of mouth over technical analysis and deduction.
                              Finally! Whew; I thought I'd never find this again, with the sheer number of "Pokemon-related interviews" roaming about the Internet. But yeah, I think this is the "interview" being discussed/referenced above:

                              Quote:
                              "One of the reasons for sticking with the 2D Pokemon images is, with the 2D, it really depends on who draws it. There's a lot of personality that's drawn from the 2D images, whereas with 3D, it's the same model used for everything, so the personality doesn't really come out. One of the reasons we've stuck with 2D is to get a more individual feel with it." -Junichi Masuda
                              He went on to say that they aren't ruling out the possibility of 3D Pokemon in future releases and that it's a conscious decision made at the start of every project.

                              Source: http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2011/03/01/why-wasnt-pokemon-black-and-white-made-for-3ds-and-why-are-pokemon-still-2d/
                              From what I understand, it seems that Game Freak prefers 2D sprite artwork for Pokemon because it evokes more of a 'personality' and is dependent on the artist who draws/sprites the Pokemon in question. Usage of 3D models still remains as a possibility in future Pokemon games, though.

                              -----

                              I'll probably elaborate more on my thoughts for this thread another time, but to sum up right now: I feel that the Nintendo 3DS is more likely for "Pokemon Gray", although the Nintendo DS cannot be necessarily ruled out, due to: wider availability of the DS, "Gray's" brethren versions (Pokemon Black and White Versions) being native to the DS, and Nintendo is still releasing games exclusively for DS despite the existence of the more-capable 3DS (Pokemon + Nobunaga's Ambition, so it seems).

                              Additional posts made prior to this one will likely be quoted for reply, when I get the time. >.>
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                                #95    
                              Old February 9th, 2012 (10:26 PM).
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                                I have thought like this, since they removed the Pokemon animations like the Crystal and Emerald ones when the Pokemons are out from the Pokeball, I think it will make a return and they will just add it in the 3rd game, I don't know I just have a feeling they will do this.

                                And I don't think the 3rd game needs a 3DS as a platform, but Maybe the R/S remakes...
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                                  #96    
                                Old February 11th, 2012 (5:19 AM). Edited February 11th, 2012 by wombateiro.
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                                  Quote:
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                                  I have thought like this, since they removed the Pokemon animations like the Crystal and Emerald ones when the Pokemons are out from the Pokeball, I think it will make a return and they will just add it in the 3rd game, I don't know I just have a feeling they will do this.
                                  Not only Pokemon's intro animations are missing but also gym leaders', eilte four's and champion's. This could mean that sprites would be still used in Gray with additions of those animations.
                                  If sprites would be still being used, it's possible that Gray would be on DS. Black's or White's file sizes are about 256 mb. The most capable DS cartridges can hold 512 mb of data. So there would be plenty of space to fit Gray's extra features and make back sprites less pixelated.

                                  Maybe instead of 6 gen with another region and another bunch of new Pokemon, there would be ultimate 3DS game with all regions and ability to travel between them all at any time and storyline connecting all regions. Everything would be in 3d including Pokemon and people. That would be a game which would use 3DS potential both in graphics and amount of cartridge's memory which is 2 gb at this time and possibly will be increasing, just like DS' cartridges.
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                                    #97    
                                  Old February 11th, 2012 (2:39 PM).
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                                  Quote:
                                  Originally Posted by wombateiro View Post
                                  Maybe instead of 6 gen with another region and another bunch of new Pokemon, there would be ultimate 3DS game with all regions and ability to travel between them all at any time and storyline connecting all regions. Everything would be in 3d including Pokemon and people. That would be a game which would use 3DS potential both in graphics and amount of cartridge's memory which is 2 gb at this time and possibly will be increasing, just like DS' cartridges.
                                  Now, I hardly think they'd risk that. You know how often people already complain: "it's not as good as the last game - why did they leave this out?" If they create a be-all-and-end-all game, they won't be able to make a sequel for fear of it being a massive letdown.

                                  As much as I would like to get another year or so out of my Gen1 DS, it makes sense from a business perspective to release it for the 3DS. Think about it:
                                  • People often buy consoles purely for Pokémon games
                                  • The 3DS has had very underwhelming sales
                                  • The PSVita has just been released.

                                  Now if I were Nintendo, I'd be forcing Game Freak to develop for the 3DS. They need console sales and you have to kill off your old product when it gets to a certain age otherwise you cease making money from the hang-on consumers.

                                  The only other possibility is that if they DO release Grey for the DS, I expect to see a Colosseum/XD-esque side-story released on the 3DS either concurrently or straight afterwards.
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                                    #98    
                                  Old February 11th, 2012 (4:40 PM).
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                                    Quote:
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                                    As much as I would like to get another year or so out of my Gen1 DS, it makes sense from a business perspective to release it for the 3DS. Think about it:
                                    • People often buy consoles purely for Pokémon games
                                    • The 3DS has had very underwhelming sales
                                    • The PSVita has just been released.

                                    Now if I were Nintendo, I'd be forcing Game Freak to develop for the 3DS. They need console sales and you have to kill off your old product when it gets to a certain age otherwise you cease making money from the hang-on consumers.
                                    Exactly.

                                    The DS is getting on in its years, and the 3DS being the newer, more powerful platform, is going to be what's favored. They'll put more focus into making it fully compatible with the 3DS, and compatibility for the DS will be second priority, if there's room for it.
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                                    Old February 23rd, 2012 (10:41 PM).
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                                    Quote:
                                    Originally Posted by fenyx4 View Post
                                    Finally! Whew; I thought I'd never find this again, with the sheer number of "Pokemon-related interviews" roaming about the Internet. But yeah, I think this is the "interview" being discussed/referenced above:



                                    From what I understand, it seems that Game Freak prefers 2D sprite artwork for Pokemon because it evokes more of a 'personality' and is dependent on the artist who draws/sprites the Pokemon in question. Usage of 3D models still remains as a possibility in future Pokemon games, though.

                                    -----

                                    I'll probably elaborate more on my thoughts for this thread another time, but to sum up right now: I feel that the Nintendo 3DS is more likely for "Pokemon Gray", although the Nintendo DS cannot be necessarily ruled out, due to: wider availability of the DS, "Gray's" brethren versions (Pokemon Black and White Versions) being native to the DS, and Nintendo is still releasing games exclusively for DS despite the existence of the more-capable 3DS (Pokemon + Nobunaga's Ambition, so it seems).

                                    Additional posts made prior to this one will likely be quoted for reply, when I get the time. >.>
                                    The interview in question relates to Pokémon Black and White, though. It's probably food for the fire when it comes to what they'll do with the supposed 3DS game, I guess.

                                    I would still contest the idea that it'll ever reach the DS. There's not a single Nintendo-published game other than Pokémon + Nobunaga's Ambition that will reach the DS this year.
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                                      #100    
                                    Old February 24th, 2012 (6:24 PM).
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