I'm probably just repeating others, but I will start with my response to the thread opener and respond other opinions later.
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Originally Posted by NarutoActor
My secular arguments agaisnt gay marriage.
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Oh, that will be fun...
Tradition is bad thing, you know? Is bad in bible, bad in Koran and of course in social life. Tradition for the sake of tradition means carrying on the unnecessary and being afraid of changes. Tradition for the sake of it's usefulness is another thing, but this should be proved by your other statements then. We'll see.
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It is tradition that enables people to view their current situation and evaluate it against the past.
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No, my dear. That's what's called history. Tradition is something like "We did celebrate the new year all the last years, so let it do next year again."
Learning from history is like "Oh, they (politicans without asking the people first) allowed using the Bundeswehr to strike within Germany, last time our army was allowed to do that we started a World War, so someone should go to the politicans and kick the resposible ones (the CDU, a kinda "traditional" party) out of the parlament."
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Marriage is a right {+ proper context}
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Saying "it's not bad since other's aren't allowed it either" is again a very weak statement. So it's not bad that I would get beaten up in Guantanamo because the other prisoners are not allowed to be there without pain either? It's not really different from what you said because negleting the homosexuals (and others as well as you said) the "right" for marriage can hurt them psychially.
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Roughly half of all states do not allow first cousins from marrying, and all do not allow marriage of closer blood relatives, even if said individuals are sterile.
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And why is that a good thing?
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In all states, it is ileagal to attempt to marry more than one person
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2 Minutes of Google. Maybe you were just refering to the USA, but seriously, the USA is not really a democratic state anymore. And well, time is coming I have to fight for Germany not to get in the same misery as the USA...
The USA has a huge problem: They can't change their constitution without breaking it first. Sorry for you.
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Doma was passed the senate on September 10th, (1996) by a vote of 85 to 14. A overwhelming majority. Going against this law would be going against democracy, and American values.
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This may be news for you, but humans can do the wrong things, politicans may not listen to the people, laws could be stupid and Doma could be from a time when people thought of homosexuals very different than you (not being okay with them).
Well, to give you a better example, Abraham Lincoln was clearly against slavery, but everybody had slaves just like hundred years ago so he was clearly going against democracy and American values. What was that with learning from
HistoryTraditions?
Always funny to find contradictions in one's statements.
Without reading further at this point, this will probably the weakest argument so far. *reading* Oh yeah, it is. The same as "Let's not prevent pollution, this will endanger workplaces in fabrics!" You know, don't work against terroism, that will endanger workplaces in the army and weapon industry! Also about costs, weren't slaves a lot cheaper than actual workers? You thinking there is a difference? Then explain the difference between a black person who's restricted in his/her rights and a gay person restricted in his/her rights. Since freedom is valued higher than marriage, let's just assume black people wouldn't be allowed to marry.
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Some have compared the prohibition of homosexual marriage to the prohibition of interracial marriage.
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Oh well.
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(B) [race] can not change
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First off, it is possible with surgeons or via deseases (Michael Jackson), second there may be people who can't change their sexual identification either, they just can try to hide it and live unhappyly on. Like jews under nazis.
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and propagation of society is a compelling state interest
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I wouldn't take that as a given. The economy of the USA is broken, their main exports are wars and weapons. For example, the theory of AIDS being developed by human is fearsome and cruel, but thinkable.
This is just "Constitution" and "Economics" together, so no real point either.
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What about artificial insemination? What about the children?
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Wasn't going to say anything about that point, but you just had it coming with
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However, there is ample evidence (see, for example, David Popenoe’s Life Without Father) that children need both a male and female parent for proper development.
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Are you saying that children without both parents get some kind of unnormal. My dear, do you know what takes most parents from children? Weapons. And Americans seem to
love weapons. What was that with ensuring proper development? And in addition, doesn't China also give a lot of restrictions to families? Hm....
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The differences between men and women extend beyond anatomy
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Is this belief the reason why women are treated like **** in America? Well, then go in the KITCHEN AND MAKE ME SOMETHING!
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so it is essential for a child to be nurtured by parents of both sexes if a child is to learn to function in a society made up of both sexes
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If a child would only learn from its parents, I could agree with you. But it is not like that.
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Gays are not necessarily bad parents, nor will they necessarily make their children gay
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That sounds like you think the second part would be as bad as the first. What was it with you not being against homosexuals?
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Race is also something that a person is (A) born into [...] Being born with something does not excuse it.
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Do you listen to yourself? The last "argument" had a stupidy over 9000!
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Studies have shown that thieves, and other criminals, have cretin brain differences compared to the average person
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I'm not even saying that it is impossible to prove a person is not a thief and I'm not ranting on the stupidy of the study itself. I'm just saying there is a study that 92.1% of all studies are made up and a study that says 43.3242123% of all studies have a precision they can't reason mathematically. If you don't get the jokes (I wouldn't be judging you – you could be born with it but that doesn't excuses you), I say there exists studies that are made up and this one probably belongs to them. I mean, did you know the
USA sell their prisoners to
private men and GRANTED A FILL RATE? How to do that? Is there a percentage of USA citizens that is "evil" by default? (Rhetorical question, I know their parlament is full of it ;) ) Did you ever think about why people become criminals? Maybe, because they are poor? Which is because they don't get a job and there isn't an security for them?
Yes, poor people are just lazy, I apologize and you are completely right.
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Gay marriage is not necessary
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USA is not necessary. Really, who needs them anyway? Can't remember a country where they brought peace or something. Germany is at least giving a lot of money to poorer countries
who probably are just lazy, like Greek. (Man, even after striking it out it sounds sooo stupid.) Well okay, I guess some countries with dictators still need American weapons, I agree on that. (And I know Germany is not much better on that field too, but at least I CARE about that.)
And regarding the following text I think you didn't got the main point pro homosexual marriage. I will spell it out for you.
Homosexuals are humans and thus they deserve the same rights other humans have. Equal chances for everyone.
(And to correct the anti-communists: Communism is "Equality for everyone." If those anti-communists are reading this, right another note: What Russia had and China has, is no communism but dictatorship they call communism to make it sound better. No need to thank me.)
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If the state must recognize a marriage of two men simply because they love one another, upon what basis can it deny marital recognition to a group of two men and three women, for example, or a sterile brother and sister who claim to love each other? Homosexual activists protest that they only want all couples treated equally. But why is sexual love between two people more worthy of state sanction than love between three, or five?
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Yes. Glad you got it. But I think their ignorance will be enough, so don't worry. Also there are a whole lot more homosexuals than of the other groups together, that would be another indicator.
Ending Resümee (because it sounds so much better): The only countable argument on a real basis were costs for the states and population. But since the states have enough money for banks and humanity is overpopulated anyway, your arguments are invalid.