Fire Flyy

metaphysical poet

Age 26
Male
below the heavens
Seen August 6th, 2015
Posted November 12th, 2013
187 posts
10.8 Years
Thanks!
Now Jolteon question

Is a 1 IV in HP and 6 IV in SP DEF okay for Jolteon if it has 31 IV's in SP ATK and Speed? I mean either way it can't take hits well. And even with good HP and SP Def, it still gets 2HKO's correct?
yeah it can sweep just fine, but it might have trouble taking some attacks, I'd probably just go about using it anyways, Jolteon is super frail as is and the strategy you want to use it for is to weaken everything so it can just pull of a straight sweep, it won't be taking any/many hits
Male
Unova
Seen July 12th, 2013
Posted April 6th, 2013
60 posts
10.4 Years
yeah it can sweep just fine, but it might have trouble taking some attacks, I'd probably just go about using it anyways, Jolteon is super frail as is and the strategy you want to use it for is to weaken everything so it can just pull of a straight sweep, it won't be taking any/many hits
Yeah I figure since Jolteon dies after one psychic from an Alakazam/Espeon and a Hydro Pump from Rotom-W, and can still live a Scald from a Vaporeon, it should be just fine. Rebreeding may not be worth it
_

White FC: 2967 8981 9744

White 2 FC: 4342 1706 0881 (usually for trades; I have pretty good Pokes in my PC)


PlatinumDude

Nyeh?

Age 29
Male
Canada
Seen July 31st, 2020
Posted May 30th, 2020
12,958 posts
12.7 Years
Do the natures matter a whole bunch? My Impish Shellgon is almost a Salamence, do I have to catch a new one? I really like this one :P
Yes. Salamence's stats lean towards offensive sets. Furthermore, when Shelgon evolves into Salamence, it loses some Defense.

Salamence are normally seen Jolly or Naive. You'll have to catch a new one in other words.

Miss Doronjo

Gaiden

Age 30
Male
Toronto, Ontario
Seen August 20th, 2015
Posted September 4th, 2013
4,473 posts
12.6 Years
Do the natures matter a whole bunch? My Impish Shellgon is almost a Salamence, do I have to catch a new one? I really like this one :P
Yeah, they sort of do.. ;__; In the game mechanics of today, a nature value will always give a 10% increase in one stat and a 10% decrease in another stat. If you know of the neutral natures that give no bonus whatsoever, its because one stat is having a 10% increase and a 10% decrease in the same stat. They cancel each other out basically. Natures will give potential bonuses to every stat except for Hit Points.

I mean look: Salamence's max attack is about 405, but only if it's a attack-oriented nature. Salamence's max speed is 328, but only with a speed-oriented nature. It can't reach those stats with a Impish nature, which is a Defensive-oriented nature. It can only reach a max of 369 in attack, and 299 in speed.

So you know, again, I recommend having an attack oriented nature, or a speed oriented nature for Salamence.

If you wanna learn more, serebii has a great guide on natures here: http://www.serebii.net/games/natures.shtml

Hawthorne Guardian
Moderator of Video Games
Paired to: Perdition Haze

Pokémon:PhoenixRising
Sylvie
Male
Unova
Seen July 12th, 2013
Posted April 6th, 2013
60 posts
10.4 Years
I'm curious because I'm not too familiar with the metagame, but let's say you have a Jolteon with 391 speed by lvl 100 and 318 SP ATK, which is quite frail in terms of defenses. Would this really make a difference when compared to a Jolteon with 394 Speed? And if so, how much?
_

White FC: 2967 8981 9744

White 2 FC: 4342 1706 0881 (usually for trades; I have pretty good Pokes in my PC)


Miss Doronjo

Gaiden

Age 30
Male
Toronto, Ontario
Seen August 20th, 2015
Posted September 4th, 2013
4,473 posts
12.6 Years
I'm curious because I'm not too familiar with the metagame, but let's say you have a Jolteon with 391 speed by lvl 100 and 318 SP ATK, which is quite frail in terms of defenses. Would this really make a difference when compared to a Jolteon with 394 Speed? And if so, how much?
There are some issues. For starters, the Jolteon with 391 speed will be always outsped by pokemon within it's same base speed tier (130), and who are running a positive speed nature, and with max speed.

For example, a Jolteon with 394 Speed will always outspeed a Jolteon with 391 speed. So, that means that in a contest on which each Jolteon Shadow Balls each other, assuming their SpA are the same, there are no crits, or no SpD drop, then the faster one will always KO the slower one first.

However, not much non-scarfed pokemon have a 130 speed base tier, so, it's not too big of an issue.

Hawthorne Guardian
Moderator of Video Games
Paired to: Perdition Haze

Pokémon:PhoenixRising
Sylvie
Male
Unova
Seen July 12th, 2013
Posted April 6th, 2013
60 posts
10.4 Years
There are some issues. For starters, the Jolteon with 391 speed will be always outsped by pokemon within it's same base speed tier (130), and who are running a positive speed nature, and with max speed.

For example, a Jolteon with 394 Speed will always outspeed a Jolteon with 391 speed. So, that means that in a contest on which each Jolteon Shadow Balls each other, assuming their SpA are the same, there are no crits, or no SpD drop, then the faster one will always KO the slower one first.

However, not much non-scarfed pokemon have a 130 speed base tier, so, it's not too big of an issue.
Well I meant when facing other Pokemon besides itself. There really aren't any other Pokes in the tier that have the same base speed stat unless there's a Dragon Dancer.

...Guess I'll have to rebreed, maybe..
_

White FC: 2967 8981 9744

White 2 FC: 4342 1706 0881 (usually for trades; I have pretty good Pokes in my PC)


Miss Doronjo

Gaiden

Age 30
Male
Toronto, Ontario
Seen August 20th, 2015
Posted September 4th, 2013
4,473 posts
12.6 Years
Well I meant when facing other Pokemon besides itself. There really aren't any other Pokes in the tier that have the same base speed stat unless there's a Dragon Dancer.

...Guess I'll have to rebreed, maybe..
Well look; besides pokemon that are +2 speed, Aerodactyl has the same base speed as Jolteon, and Scarf Politoed with 393 speed can outspeed pokemon that have 391. Also a +1 Gyarados has a max 391 speed, so that would be a speed tie.

If you wanna learn more, there's a great guide from smogon that explains speed tiers: http://www.smogon.com/bw/articles/ouspeed_tiers

Hawthorne Guardian
Moderator of Video Games
Paired to: Perdition Haze

Pokémon:PhoenixRising
Sylvie
Male
Seen October 13th, 2014
Posted October 13th, 2014
37 posts
10.6 Years
Yeah, they sort of do.. ;__; In the game mechanics of today, a nature value
will always give a 10% increase in one stat and a 10% decrease in another stat.
If you know of the neutral natures that give no bonus whatsoever, its because
one stat is having a 10% increase and a 10% decrease in the same stat. They
cancel each other out basically. Natures will give potential bonuses to every
stat except for Hit Points.

I mean look: Salamence's max attack is about
405, but only if it's a attack-oriented nature. Salamence's max speed is 328,
but only with a speed-oriented nature. It can't reach those stats with a Impish
nature, which is a Defensive-oriented nature. It can only reach a max of 369 in
attack, and 299 in speed.

So you know, again, I recommend having an
attack oriented nature, or a speed oriented nature for Salamence.
Aww, I spent hours and all of my 4 rare candies and my only earthquake and dragon claw getting it to level 50... thanks anyways! :P Is Jolly or Naive better for a Dragon Dance, Outrage, Earthquake and Hydro Pump (basically offensive) Salamence?

Miss Doronjo

Gaiden

Age 30
Male
Toronto, Ontario
Seen August 20th, 2015
Posted September 4th, 2013
4,473 posts
12.6 Years
Aww, I spent hours and all of my 4 rare candies and my only earthquake and dragon claw getting it to level 50... thanks anyways! :P Is Jolly or Naive better for a Dragon Dance, Outrage, Earthquake and Hydro Pump (basically offensive) Salamence?
Well it depends - if you're running a Dragon Dance set with a special attack, like in your case with Hydro Pump, you might want to try Naive, to avoid the 10% -SpA drop in stat. If you're running purely physical attacks with Dragon Dance, then you should try Jolly.

Hawthorne Guardian
Moderator of Video Games
Paired to: Perdition Haze

Pokémon:PhoenixRising
Sylvie

Satoshi Ookami

Memento Mori

Age 30
Male
Abyss of Time, Great Seal
Seen August 5th, 2018
Posted July 3rd, 2018
14,253 posts
14.8 Years
Well it depends - if you're running a Dragon Dance set with a special attack, like in your case with Hydro Pump, you might want to try Naive, to avoid the 10% -SpA drop in stat. If you're running purely physical attacks with Dragon Dance, then you should try Jolly.
I think Hydro Pump on DD set is a waste of move space...
It's pretty useless to have Hydro Pump when you can have Adamant nature with Moxie.
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PlatinumDude

Nyeh?

Age 29
Male
Canada
Seen July 31st, 2020
Posted May 30th, 2020
12,958 posts
12.7 Years
I think Hydro Pump on DD set is a waste of move space...
It's pretty useless to have Hydro Pump when you can have Adamant nature with Moxie.
Hydro Pump is an option on DD Salamence if it's used on a Rain team so that it can deal with physical walls more easily, especially when it hasn't accumulated Moxie or DD boosts. Same story goes for Fire Blast on Sun and weatherless teams.

Male
Unova
Seen July 12th, 2013
Posted April 6th, 2013
60 posts
10.4 Years
So I have two Jolteons:
one with 30 SP ATK IV's and 28 Speed IV's
and one with 27 SP ATK IV's and 31 Speed IV's
Which one should I take? The second one has a higher HP and SP def IV's, while the first has higher defense.

The first also carries HP Fire, while the second has HP Water
_

White FC: 2967 8981 9744

White 2 FC: 4342 1706 0881 (usually for trades; I have pretty good Pokes in my PC)


PlatinumDude

Nyeh?

Age 29
Male
Canada
Seen July 31st, 2020
Posted May 30th, 2020
12,958 posts
12.7 Years
So I have two Jolteons:
one with 30 SP ATK IV's and 28 Speed IV's
and one with 27 SP ATK IV's and 31 Speed IV's
Which one should I take? The second one has a higher HP and SP def IV's, while the first has higher defense.

The first also carries HP Fire, while the second has HP Water
Depends on what Hidden Power types both have, IMO. If it's Ice, Fire or Grass, go with that one. Otherwise, I'd go with the second one.

Male
Unova
Seen July 12th, 2013
Posted April 6th, 2013
60 posts
10.4 Years
Depends on what Hidden Power types both have, IMO. If it's Ice, Fire or Grass, go with that one. Otherwise, I'd go with the second one.
First one has HP Fire, the one with 28 IV's in Speed, and the second one has HP Water...I can't really pick which one as Water will give me ground type coverage, but Fire will help with Ferrothorn
_

White FC: 2967 8981 9744

White 2 FC: 4342 1706 0881 (usually for trades; I have pretty good Pokes in my PC)


Miss Doronjo

Gaiden

Age 30
Male
Toronto, Ontario
Seen August 20th, 2015
Posted September 4th, 2013
4,473 posts
12.6 Years
First one has HP Fire, the one with 28 IV's in Speed, and the second one has HP Water...I can't really pick which one as Water will give me ground type coverage, but Fire will help with Ferrothorn
I'd say ground coverage would benefit you more. You don't really need Fire coverage, since most steel pokemon have sorta average SpD, so you'd be 2HKOing some of them with Thunderbolt anyway.

Hawthorne Guardian
Moderator of Video Games
Paired to: Perdition Haze

Pokémon:PhoenixRising
Sylvie

PlatinumDude

Nyeh?

Age 29
Male
Canada
Seen July 31st, 2020
Posted May 30th, 2020
12,958 posts
12.7 Years
I'd say ground coverage would benefit you more. You don't really need Fire coverage, since most steel pokemon have sorta average SpD, so you'd be 2HKOing some of them with Thunderbolt anyway.
Actually, HP Fire is more important than HP Ground on Jolteon because of Ferrothorn, who would use Jolteon as setup bait for hazards/Leech Seed, or KO it outright with Power Whip. Heatran is still hit hard by Thunderbolt regardless.

Miss Doronjo

Gaiden

Age 30
Male
Toronto, Ontario
Seen August 20th, 2015
Posted September 4th, 2013
4,473 posts
12.6 Years
Actually, HP Fire is more important than HP Ground on Jolteon because of Ferrothorn, who would use Jolteon as setup bait for hazards/Leech Seed, or KO it outright with Power Whip. Heatran is still hit hard by Thunderbolt regardless.
It's a matter of preference from your team comp, really. I myself, normally use HP Grass on Jolteon, since I find hitting ground types to be more effective. I've only said my overall preference - they can both work; I guess it just matters on his team.

Hawthorne Guardian
Moderator of Video Games
Paired to: Perdition Haze

Pokémon:PhoenixRising
Sylvie
Age 33
Male
Seen November 23rd, 2016
Posted July 14th, 2016
174 posts
12.6 Years
i need better counter-mearsures to deal with ice and fighting double battle pokes
heres my double team and ~rnc~ as breed this team for me and she says they have perect 8 stats across the broad, if it help at all
well anyways ill be looking into their moves myself, i just thought i post here to get some good remarks and any usefull info
Tyranitar:
-Crunch
-Rock Slide
-Low Kick
-Protect
Nature: Adamant
ability: Sand Stream

Garchomp:
-Earthquake
-Dragon Claw
-Rock Slide
-Protect
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Sand Veil

Gastrodon:
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Earth Power
-Recover
Nature: Bold
Ability: Storm Drain

Gliscor:
-Earthquake
-Acrobatics
-Tailwind
-Protect
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Sand Veil

Miss Doronjo

Gaiden

Age 30
Male
Toronto, Ontario
Seen August 20th, 2015
Posted September 4th, 2013
4,473 posts
12.6 Years
You can try something like Heatran or the fighting type Terrakion over your Gliscor or Garchomp if things go south against ice types. You can also have your Garchomp hold a Yache Berry, so that it'll have an easier time to sweep, or deal nice damage against them.

Hawthorne Guardian
Moderator of Video Games
Paired to: Perdition Haze

Pokémon:PhoenixRising
Sylvie
Age 33
Male
Seen November 23rd, 2016
Posted July 14th, 2016
174 posts
12.6 Years
c my team got tore up by a sawk and the snowflake poke on the double train battle subway and if my team cant make on the battle subway, then theres no way they would make in online comptivite battles, cause this suppose to be a double battle team

but thanks for the advice, u do make a good point
Male
New York City
Seen April 10th, 2021
Posted May 12th, 2016
203 posts
12.3 Years
Alright, So I'm already planning my team for Pokemon X and Y, and Dragonite is going to be apart of it. I already have three moves, two that will counter his weaknesses, but I need one more.

I was wondering, should I use Flamethrower or Heat Wave? I know that Flame thrower rarely misses and has more PP than Heat Wave, but I would like to start competitively battling again, mainly in doubles battles (this is where heat wave is good, it attacks both opponents)

So which should I use? And, can you explain why?

My Dragonite will be holding an item that doesn't enhance accuracy nor power of fire moves, please keep that in mind.
Age 33
Male
Seen November 23rd, 2016
Posted July 14th, 2016
174 posts
12.6 Years
i dinfinly need 2 rethink my double double team, i just lose 2 online battles and to 2 i just lost is a big understatment, my first battle, i face off agaist a breloom and mamoswin and throught the whole battle, i only got one chance 2 attack and that was with garchomp, i didnt even take 1 of the enemy pokes

im i missing some info 2 building desert team here

Miss Doronjo

Gaiden

Age 30
Male
Toronto, Ontario
Seen August 20th, 2015
Posted September 4th, 2013
4,473 posts
12.6 Years
i dinfinly need 2 rethink my double double team, i just lose 2 online battles and to 2 i just lost is a big understatment, my first battle, i face off agaist a breloom and mamoswin and throught the whole battle, i only got one chance 2 attack and that was with garchomp, i didnt even take 1 of the enemy pokes

im i missing some info 2 building desert team here
Well, first, just because you're running a sanstorm team, doesn't mean you have to strictly use ground-type pokemon. D= Also, perhaps more offense will be your better defense.

One thing you can try to do, is that you can swap Gastrodon with Starmie, that has a moveset of Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Recover, and Thunderbolt, sooo you can have more coverage for yourself. Have you also tried Stoutland? It has an amazing ability for sandstorm - Sand Rush. You can utilize a choice band on it, as it packs quite good power. You can also try Scizor - it has strong attack, and it's steel typing resists ice attacks.

Hawthorne Guardian
Moderator of Video Games
Paired to: Perdition Haze

Pokémon:PhoenixRising
Sylvie