BC Discussion & Feedback Page 7

Started by wolf August 27th, 2012 3:34 PM
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  • 180 replies

.Aero

Tell Me I'm A Screwed Up Mess

Age 29
Male
Columbus, Ohio
Seen July 27th, 2016
Posted July 1st, 2016
1,767 posts
15.9 Years
Alright, I think it's time I provided input in this thread. I'll break it down I guess. I don't know how much I have to say but we'll see where my post takes me:
  • First off, I'd like to talk about what Anti just said. The scale of our player-base is extremely small. While I understand this is a tier list created for PC's use and PC's use only, it's basically impossible to get a feel for what a metagame is on such a small scale. Our server is full of people at the moment (27), but honestly, looking through the list of people here, I can't imagine more than 30% would be willing to stick it out with this project until XY comes out (which is when I assume we'd stop and / or restart the whole process with XY mons, probably after seeing how the real metagame plays out of course). I don't think we entirely have enough people to practically do this. Especially considering how much thought has to go into the creation of a team in the first place, we'll probably end up battling with the same three teams over and over and we'll eventually learn each others' teams / strats until it's just not relevant to testing anymore.
  • Second, I personally don't know how dedicated to this I could be. I have a couple feelings on how my participation will play out. First, I'd probably start out making one team, and from that never make a team again because of how "difficult" and time consuming the process is. Not to mention I've been away from BW2 basically entirely and I don't even know what the **** a Thundurus-I is. While I'd love to be more dedicated, I'm currently going through one of the most stressful events I think I'll ever go through and I can't be sure I'll be entirely focused on this project with my free time. Sure, summer is coming up and I'm out of school on May 1st, but I've actually managed to secure a summer job which is cool. When thinking about participating in these kinds of projects, I tend to forget I have a lot of other **** going on in my life that I just overlook because I get overly excited about something.
  • Third, I honestly feel like we should focus on tiers other than NU / OU for a bit and see how that goes. I'm personally very interested in UU (because a couple of my favorite pokemon lie in that tier aka Slowbro / Zapdos / Scrafty). LC is also extremely fun, even though Eviolite ruined it. While I think Eviolite removed some of the charm of the tier, it definitely added another layer of strategy that really wasn't there before, making it a semi-viable tier in my eyes. It's not longer priority / gligar / oran berries. I mean, I liked that, but now it's a bit more "real". RU seems interesting to say the least and I could get behind it perhaps.
  • Lastly, if you guys do decide to go through and create this whole tier list thing, I'm not saying I won't contribute because I'd like to. I just can't guarantee I'll stick through it all the way. When I came back in January to PC, I came back because of XY. I had no desire to play BW again. It's very hard for me to get back into things because of how BW2 changed things rather significantly (at least to me it seems like quite a bit has changed). So if we end up creating a metagame, I don't really have a new metagame to learn, do I? I'd be helping create it. (Chimecho OU, yes?)

/End

Pokedra

Retired

Male
Seen August 21st, 2016
Posted August 19th, 2016
1,660 posts
14.5 Years
Well what am I doing here? @[email protected]

I've kind of gotten back some of my interest into competitive battling and will be willing to stick around (for real, probably) if this forum can get back on its feet. Currently I'm trying to regain what little skill I had before.

As for my thoughts on whether we should go for our own metagame I think we can do it provided people actually contribute. BW OU is a miserable sack of garbage so there's no way in hell we should play that but I feel with a few major tweaks we can have a creative and easy to get into metagame in which everyone can play until XY come out. I think we should unban some of the more controversial stuff like Blaziken while keeping the general Uber banlist (I mean stuff like Mewtwo/Kyogre/Arceus are 100% broken in OU). We also need to make it unique, there's no point in playing BW OU 2.0. We need to differentiate it somehow. I have a few ideas like banning auto-weather (I will make a case for this when the time comes) but we'll leave that to when we actually decide to build it. Basically with enough contribution it can be done, say 10-15 people playing it and 5-6 "council" members, we can build a framework before getting more people in on it. 6 months is longer then you think and it will take Smogon a bit to iron out XY.

But I agree that we should not ban too much, I feel we as members should try to make our PC OU contain elements of what we liked in DP OU but accept that BW OU is not DP OU and will never be. How to do this...I have no idea.

If people are against that however, I think the most valid option is BW UU. Currently or so I've read, the members of Smogon seem to think it's in a state of perfect balance (think Pre-Latias DP OU or Post-Mence OU) so it's really damn fun to play. It allows all play-styles and most of it...there's no centralization. Gimmicks can work and you don't see Ninetales and Politoed on every team.

tl;dr I'm all for PC OU, it can work imo. If not try BW UU, it's the best of a sorry bunch by far.

wolf

he/him
Seen 21 Hours Ago
Posted October 23rd, 2022
8,259 posts
14.7 Years
Also just throwing this out there: there are fundamental limits to a forum-specific metagame that involve interactions between each other. I remember playing BW vs. wolf enough that we knew each others' teams, playing style (not team style but execution), etc. and while this was fun I feel like we would have a hard time actually making sense of the "metagame." Basically I'm suggesting that the scale might be an issue.
Now that I'm reminded of this problem, I'm not very keen on reviving the project. I guess this wouldn't be an issue if we had a decent sized group that is actively trying out different things in the metagame, but I have my doubts on if people will remain interested. I could start up a poll to see who would be willing to do that, but actions speak louder than words.
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Jake♫

► My Happy Little Pill 

Male
New York
Seen January 17th, 2022
Posted June 26th, 2016
2,938 posts
15 Years
Honestly, if we're going to commit to this, I honestly think people need some motivation. And by motivation, I mean that if you're signing up and are saying you are going to contribute, you damn sure better do it. Maybe infractions as warnings like you're doing for the Weekly Tournaments. If you say you are going to commit, then stick to your word.

Pokedra

Retired

Male
Seen August 21st, 2016
Posted August 19th, 2016
1,660 posts
14.5 Years
I don't think infractions are needed, this isn't as serious as a tournament where one person can screw up the entire system. I think there is enough interest to warrant a try at this, admittedly in the past it didn't work but I have a feeling people will try this time. Most people are sick of current metas anyway.

.Aero

Tell Me I'm A Screwed Up Mess

Age 29
Male
Columbus, Ohio
Seen July 27th, 2016
Posted July 1st, 2016
1,767 posts
15.9 Years
Mantinefan18 ran some analytics....theyre not lookin good



Also infractions is kind of escalating it lol
This is just the truth of the matter at the moment. While I'm certainly a victim of non-battling chat for 90% of what I talk about, I think my frequency of battle chat now has increased quite a bit. I have noticed though the chat often diverges into something else pretty shortly after. I do want to thank those of you who actually helped me earlier with my UU team though (specifically Vrai). Dunno if he'll even read this here, but he battled me twice in a row to help me test changes to my team which helped a lot.

Anyway, I'll be starting a UU 8 man tournament that will start tomorrow so if you're honestly interested in joining, please do and actually battle. :x

Also, I agree. Infractions are a bit harsh. If everyone is on the server already, perhaps a timed mute to that person would be fair enough.

wolf

he/him
Seen 21 Hours Ago
Posted October 23rd, 2022
8,259 posts
14.7 Years
Mantinefan18 ran some analytics....theyre not lookin good

It's an off-topic chat. What do you expect?

The battle server doesn't take away much activity from BC. They've become separate entities over the years, and the server is no longer a chatroom for BC regulars, but as an alternative to the official PC Chat. Battling and its related topics are rarely discussed on the server, and plenty of people that visit the server don't battle at all.
Just to add on, the battle server isn't really connected with BC anymore. Yes, it's a battle server, but it has always been a chatroom first and foremost. Off-topic discussions take place there, so I don't really see why it's a crime for non-battlers to be there. Now, I would understand your point in regards to the forum, because BC exclusively hosts only discussion related to battling. However, I doubt that people disinterested in battling have been posting here. The battle server does represent some of PC's battle community, but obviously not all.
I've seen battling talked about sometimes, and it could be more prevalent. However, BC is meant for battling discussion, while the server is for off-topic discussion. It's always been like this. I don't see the problem.
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wolf

he/him
Seen 21 Hours Ago
Posted October 23rd, 2022
8,259 posts
14.7 Years
Here's another one of my ideas. I have been thinking about making a clan that promotes a friendly atmosphere for any sort of battler, with a small focus on new players. The clan would be split up into two threads; one in E&G for sign-ups and clan events, the other in BC which would work as a discussion and team building hub. It would essentially be a club that's designed for helping other clan members improve their battling and team building skills. People can post in the discussion thread asking for help like "I have this core of 3 Pokemon, but any ideas on how to make it from here?", but it wouldn't be limited to just that. The discussion thread could host discussions on what team everyone has been currently using, and others can provide assistance on improving it. Clan members would strive to help each other get better by having clan battles that involve providing criticism on their opponent's decisions, asking their opponent why they made a certain move, and so on. Maybe clan members can post strategic battles they've just had; something that others could learn from. The possibilities with this clan are endless, and we could do a lot with it. But in the end, the goal of this clan is to form a close-knit community of battlers, something that BC lacks currently. One could argue that this is what BC should be in the first place, but I'm thinking that having this clan could help form a community from the beginning. We would be taking advantage of that feeling you get from being in a club or clan.

I've read other opinions about people losing interest in a game, but then successfully reviving their old spark by helping others in a somewhat intimate way. Maybe this could work for me, who knows.

tl;dr: The gist of it is a clan with a close community that strives to help other out in any way they can, and also provide a friendly atmosphere so new players can come in on the fun. It's like a typical clan, a tutoring corner, a Daily Chit-Chat thread, and a team building club rolled into one.

"Like" this if you want to support the idea.
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Pokedra

Retired

Male
Seen August 21st, 2016
Posted August 19th, 2016
1,660 posts
14.5 Years
Just tossing around an idea, we should probably get some small projects going like tier lists for individual tiers. Like ranking the viability of some Pokemon in a tier, I know Smogon does the same and although we shouldn't try to become a Smogon clone nor do we have their playerbase I feel this idea is viable. Although we aren't Smogon, we are a competitive forum and we need to stick to those roots. This only works if people are willing to post and contribute though.

We could take a tier like NU and UU and slowly formulate a list for it. I mean it's not even trying to create our own tier, it's more like throwing some opinions out and getting some discussion going. What this forum lacks is discussion, don't you remember a few years ago where we had suspect discussions that went on for pages and pages. That kept the forum going, we need something like that. We have a limited but sufficient playerbase for small projects like these.

Anyways take this with a grain of salt.

Ho-Oh

used Sacred Fire!

Age 31
Female
QLD, Australia
Seen June 5th, 2022
Posted April 23rd, 2022
35,988 posts
17.5 Years
See, while that would be a good idea I just don't think it'd fly. We have the userbase but the majority doesn't play competitive, and viability rankings would be decided by just a small group of people while the others don't understand. I think as a whole we need to motivate everyone more, and then get stuff going. Half the community only plays randbats, so :(

Pokedra

Retired

Male
Seen August 21st, 2016
Posted August 19th, 2016
1,660 posts
14.5 Years
See, while that would be a good idea I just don't think it'd fly. We have the userbase but the majority doesn't play competitive, and viability rankings would be decided by just a small group of people while the others don't understand. I think as a whole we need to motivate everyone more, and then get stuff going. Half the community only plays randbats, so :(
I think we have the userbase but it's honestly too lazy (myself included).

I mean the UU tournament filled up pretty quickly and there were people who were disappointed they didn't get in. If the fifteen or so people decided to work on this 'tier/viability list' we could get somewhere I feel. I mean Smogon's lists probably have about 30 people on them but at times it's less then ten debating. It's a matter of interest and motivation as you said.

Just saying we need more then simple "Do you x" threads and more discussion-orientated and interesting threads which will keep people coming back.

Ho-Oh

used Sacred Fire!

Age 31
Female
QLD, Australia
Seen June 5th, 2022
Posted April 23rd, 2022
35,988 posts
17.5 Years
Well I guess there's no harm in trying I just think we have to maybe start small? If we did go with viability, what tier would we have viability rankings for? And also would we have mid S, high S etc. NU doesn't have low and high and it works really well imo.

Also maybe we could have ccat for another tier so you have two diff things going in at once so it doesn't overwealm anyone with one tier.

Pokedra

Retired

Male
Seen August 21st, 2016
Posted August 19th, 2016
1,660 posts
14.5 Years
We need more interest before we begin . So yeah I'm hoping some people post to show interest.

And I guess NU/UU would be the ones to go for as no one plays OU much around here. And yeah I agree no low/mid/top. It should just be tiers, I think UU has a bigger playerbase here though. Apart from ranbats it's probably the most popular.

Actually we could have a POTD like the server thing and sort one Pokemon a day or something. Like
Day 1: Pokemon is Snorlax
Discussion/Votes via post/Sorted
Day 2: Pokemon is ....
etc.

Ho-Oh

used Sacred Fire!

Age 31
Female
QLD, Australia
Seen June 5th, 2022
Posted April 23rd, 2022
35,988 posts
17.5 Years
Idk I think it's pretty even with NU right now, maybe we just need to tighten those interests so we get a general gage. Viability should be for most popular and ccat for the other though imo. We could also do other things like what I host on smogon (next best thing), revive counter that mon and just get creativity going.

wolf

he/him
Seen 21 Hours Ago
Posted October 23rd, 2022
8,259 posts
14.7 Years
By all means, give it a test run. You won't know if it will work unless you try.
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droomph

weeb

Age 26
Male
nowhere spectacular
Seen February 1st, 2017
Posted January 3rd, 2017
4,282 posts
11.7 Years
I have a thing about the battle server (i don't know if it should go here so sorry if it isn't)

Whenever I go there, it seems that I run into a full-blown conversation about them having an orgy or whatever, and it's really annoying as I can't even get in a conversation when I'm there. it really just forces me to leave as I go there for the chat mostly.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm fine with a bit of sex or whatever. But when I see lines like "and I *** on your ___" that's when it crosses my lines. I don't know if I'm just unlucky or what, but I see a conversation like that almost every time I go on.
did u no there r 21 letters in the alphabet
o i forgot 5
uraqt


Squirrel

Age 28
Male
Seen 5 Days Ago
Posted July 10th, 2021
9,551 posts
11.7 Years
I have a thing about the battle server (i don't know if it should go here so sorry if it isn't)

Whenever I go there, it seems that I run into a full-blown conversation about them having an orgy or whatever, and it's really annoying as I can't even get in a conversation when I'm there. it really just forces me to leave as I go there for the chat mostly.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm fine with a bit of sex or whatever. But when I see lines like "and I *** on your ___" that's when it crosses my lines. I don't know if I'm just unlucky or what, but I see a conversation like that almost every time I go on.
You visit the server? :o I've never seen you there, but you should definitely come more! I assure you it's not like that at all for the majority of the time, in fact we have a strict rule against this sort of thing. If you notice it happening and a staff member hasn't dealt with it, make sure to notify one of us and/or save logs of it to show us when one of us is around, because we don't accept this kind of talk/behaviour and if noticed it will certainly be dealt with. I definitely urge you to try visiting again as these really do seem like isolated unfortunate incidents, but if you do have trouble with people on the server then we're always around if you need to talk to someone about it :)
Lol I didn't know okay. But it's really just a problem I wanted to know how to deal with :)

Understandable! If you are someone who doesn't frequent and just walk into that topic, I don't blame you for not PMing a mod, but posting here instead. However as Alex stated sexual talk like that is strictly banned now. We used to allow it, but it made for a toxic environment and we had to ban it altogether. Hope to see you back soon!