Land of the Maple Leaf ~ Canadian Club Page 11

Started by Cosmotone8 October 6th, 2012 10:15 AM
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Cherrim

Age 34
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Toronto
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With all of that said tough, still not a reason to ban non-French speaking people from using public services in Québec. When it comes to front-line public service, I expect them to be able to communicate in both official languages. And if not, they should make every effort to accommodate them because they're the public service and we're the public. If someone from Québec was turned down in Alberta, I think it would be just as bad. And even then, what about tourists? People go to parts of Europe, for example, all the time from all over the world and don't speak the language. They get by because of helpful people offering the services, though I'm sure they're secretly annoyed. But still. I don't see how that concept shouldn't apply to Québec. Not to mention if you're an English-speaking citizen in Québec. You pay taxes that go toward public transit for example, but you wouldn't be able to use it. Makes no sense.
Well, reading the article it seems like "ban" is way too strong a word. It just seemed like there would be no real effort to hire workers who were bilingual so if you were walking up to your average ticket booth or talking to a driver or something and wanted to conduct your business in English (in a French city), you would not be guaranteed service and if you absolutely couldn't figure out how to acheter un billet, you'd end up walking. And that is absolutely fair, in my mind. It's what happens literally everywhere in the world. o_O Why is it a big deal if it happens in Montreal? Just because that city is partially English as well? If the francophones of Montreal know enough English that they can speak it when needed, I think the opposite should be true of anglophones living in the same city. Tourists can do whatever it is they always do when they visit a foreign language destination.

City officials aren't walking through the public transit system and kicking people out if they're found speaking English or something. They can't BAN a language. It just seems like they don't think they should be required to offer service in English just like the rest of Canada isn't required to offer service in French. Not out on the street, anyway--there'll always be head offices and phone numbers to call for service in either language but your average bus driver or ticket booth attendant won't necessarily be able to help you in the language that is not actually native to the area. That was my understanding.
The closest I got to really doing anything pre-High School was a novel study in French 9. We started rather close to the end of the year, so we never did finish it. Although it was like, a Grade 3 or 4-reading level book. I can read things and translate what most of it is into English and get the general idea of what's going on, or listen in on a conversation and pick out words I know, like vocab or a conjugated verb, but not much more. The current curriculum sucks and I really wish I had started earlier, or even done French Immersion. I'd be a far better speaker by now.
Yeah, the difficulty really ramps up when you get into the later (and optional) grades of French. When you take a French university course, they start teaching from Ontario's Grade 9 French. And that's the only required one here. I don't think you learn much aside from passé composé in it, since it's assumed you know present tense (except no one does because no one takes French seriously until that grade since the curriculum doesn't take it seriously until then). Why does that happen then? There's absolutely no reason it can't happen while we're kids. It's better to learn languages when you're young anyway. After a certain age, it becomes really hard for us to learn pronunciations and even actual languages. Children are much, MUCH more receptive to languages when they are very young so French basics and vocab and pronunciation and all that should be taught as early as Kindergarten with grammar and more useful vocabulary in earlier grades to go with it.


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TRIFORCE89

Guide of Darkness

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Temple of Light
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Posted October 21st, 2016
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19 Years
Well, reading the article it seems like "ban" is way too strong a word. It just seemed like there would be no real effort to hire workers who were bilingual so if you were walking up to your average ticket booth or talking to a driver or something and wanted to conduct your business in English (in a French city), you would not be guaranteed service and if you absolutely couldn't figure out how to acheter un billet, you'd end up walking.

...

City officials aren't walking through the public transit system and kicking people out if they're found speaking English or something. They can't BAN a language. It just seems like they don't think they should be required to offer service in English just like the rest of Canada isn't required to offer service in French.
That article linked to in the thread read:

“We want the Charter of the French language modified so that all provincial and municipal services are offered exclusively in French,” said Marie-Claire Baigner, a representative from the SFPQ Union.

A ban on other languages would encourage immigrants and Anglophones to learn French, according to Baigner.


So, from that I took ban to mean... ban XD Granted, that term wasn't actually part of the quoted text and was probably entirely hyperbole on the article's part, but I ran with it. lol

And that is absolutely fair, in my mind. It's what happens literally everywhere in the world. o_O Why is it a big deal if it happens in Montreal? Just because that city is partially English as well? If the francophones of Montreal know enough English that they can speak it when needed, I think the opposite should be true of anglophones living in the same city. Tourists can do whatever it is they always do when they visit a foreign language destination.

...

Not out on the street, anyway--there'll always be head offices and phone numbers to call for service in either language but your average bus driver or ticket booth attendant won't necessarily be able to help you in the language that is not actually native to the area. That was my understanding.
In the other thread I had said, It says in our Constitution, or more specifically our Charter of Rights and Freedoms, that both official languages (English and French) "have equality of status and equal rights and privileges as to their use in all institutions". Provincial services are supposed to be provided regardless of language. French is Quebec's only official language since the '70s, but they're still required to follow the Federal legislation on this.

Other places in Canada, where English is the primary language, may not be following this as intended either. And that's wrong too. But, while corny, two wrongs don't make a right. If someone from Quebec comes to Toronto, they should be able to order from the TTC booth in French. If that's not happening, I'd support efforts to rectify it too. Wouldn't necessarily need to hire bilingual workers. Just have signage and assistance available. That's all I think is necessary. Even in the Quebec case.

The "they can walk" attitude shown in the article just strikes a stronger chord with me because it has a bit of a "if they can't figure out, screw them" kinda feel to it which just makes no sense in the service industry to me.

Anyway, enough on that from me here. Don't need two threads on this. XD

Shining Raichu

Expect me like you expect Jesus.

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Posted December 21st, 2017
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12.3 Years
Hey guys!

Alright, so Cosmotone8 has asked me to close this club as he wishes to leave PC and therefore won't be around to maintain it. I don't want to do that, because it's one of the more active clubs in the section and I think it would be a real shame to waste it. So, who wants it? As the four most active posters in the club, I'd like to see Team Fail, LilJz, TRIFORCE or Frostweaver take the reigns, but really it's up to you guys - I'll let you figure it out as a group and when it's been decided, someone shoot me a PM and I'll transfer the club over into their name! :)
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Captain Gizmo

Monkey King

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Canada
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10.6 Years
I wouldn't mind taking care of it if no one else is willing to, since I'm very active on this forum and all. But if anyone here wants to take care of it instead, that would be great since I'm already running the Naruto Fan Club.

But since Cosmotone is leaving PC :'[ how is the new person in charge gonna be putting new members on the list? Since we don't have permission to edit the first post. Unless we'll have to make a new one?
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Cherrim

Age 34
she / her
Toronto
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Posted 6 Days Ago
33,049 posts
20.4 Years
Nah, you can merge posts so SR would just copy one of your posts in here and merge it with the first post to trick the forum into thinking you made the opening post all along, so you'd be able to edit the list and everything then. (Or a new thread could be made but this one is already so well-established it looks nicer to keep it around imo.)

I don't mind taking over it either but you are much more active and all so if you aren't too busy with the Naruto club already it probably makes more sense. ^^


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Brendino

The Ruins of Alph
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Posted April 6th, 2023
8,567 posts
13.4 Years
Yeah, the difficulty really ramps up when you get into the later (and optional) grades of French. When you take a French university course, they start teaching from Ontario's Grade 9 French. And that's the only required one here. I don't think you learn much aside from passé composé in it, since it's assumed you know present tense (except no one does because no one takes French seriously until that grade since the curriculum doesn't take it seriously until then). Why does that happen then? There's absolutely no reason it can't happen while we're kids. It's better to learn languages when you're young anyway. After a certain age, it becomes really hard for us to learn pronunciations and even actual languages. Children are much, MUCH more receptive to languages when they are very young so French basics and vocab and pronunciation and all that should be taught as early as Kindergarten with grammar and more useful vocabulary in earlier grades to go with it.
I started Passé Composeé in like, 9th Grade here too, and I'm doing other tenses as well, like imparfait and futur proche, as well as futur simple. Except I get them confused on a regular basis lol.
My class started learning passé composé back in grade 7, but that was because our teacher actually spoke French as his first language, and figured if we got a head start we'd be better prepared for future French classes (I'd even say my grade 9 French class was easier than grade 7). I really wish that I could've stayed on that difficulty curve going forward, since I learned next to nothing about French for two years.

The big problem I think is that many teachers (especially as you get further away from Quebec) aren't as knowledgable about the language as they should be, so it's similar to the blind leading the blind in teaching French. I find that this leads to all of the simple activities like crosswords and learning songs, because you won't have a teacher specializing in French until high school. Again, if we want to promote a nationwide bilingualism, we should be learning it from a much earlier age, since even those two extra years would've improved my skills greatly.

---

I wouldn't mind helping out with the club, either, since I'm not quite as busy as everyone else, but then again, there are a couple of you that are more active here than I am. That, and the club isn't quite as active as some of the other ones, so I'm sure whoever's running it won't have too much trouble.

Also, I noticed that the Canadian Club is eligible to receive it's own emblem. I'm not quite sure what the requirements would be to receive it, what it would look like, etc., but I think it would be a neat idea if we had one.

Brendino

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What it means by that, is that whoever owns the club (Which is now up in the air) can create an emblem for their club, and distribute it to whoever they want in that club.
That's the reason why I thought it'd be interesting if we all collectively came up with an idea, as there isn't really an owner right now to make one and come up with guidelines for it. I don't know, just an idea.

@French subject: I had a teacher like that last year. Except that he also knew little English. He basically babied everyone through the course. To the point that he walked us through the final exam. In ENGLISH.
For the first month of my grade 10 French class, our substitute teacher was like that. He was half Vietnamese/half French, and wasn't all that great with English. He'd basically tell us exactly what to do, and it we couldn't figure it out, to just use an online translator. When our regular teacher came back from his surgery, the course was night and day to what we'd been learning up to that point.

Cherrim

Age 34
she / her
Toronto
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Posted 6 Days Ago
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20.4 Years
That's the reason why I thought it'd be interesting if we all collectively came up with an idea, as there isn't really an owner right now to make one and come up with guidelines for it. I don't know, just an idea.
We should have an emblem for people who manage to change the topic from weather to something else because we talk about weather way too much in this club. :P


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Cherrim

Age 34
she / her
Toronto
Seen 16 Hours Ago
Posted 6 Days Ago
33,049 posts
20.4 Years
We had a warning for snow squalls here... haven't gone outside in hours so I don't know if they actually happened. Hailed a bit while I was walking home from the bus, too. I'm fine with the cold sticking around for a few more weeks but I wish it wouldn't get warm in-between. It wasn't quite cold enough to freeze the mud so I got the worst of spring coupled with cold. Damnit, Southern Ontario. :(


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Yusshin

♪ Yggdrasil ♪

Age 30
Quebec, Canada
Seen May 13th, 2013
Posted May 13th, 2013
2,414 posts
13.8 Years
Username: Yusshin
Relation to Canada: Born and raised! + Bilingual in French & English. 'Was born in a small town north of Barrie, ON. in '92 and went back and forth multiple times between there and Quebec from '08-'10. Now I live in Quebec and have since September '12.
Favourite Province: Quebec. Low rent. Decent wage. Low food cost. Low transportation cost. Easy to get anywhere in the Southern part of the province for cheap (trains in Montreal extend 1-2h average train travel time in most cardinal directions). Lots of festivals and activities in Montreal. Bilingualism. True patriotism (can't go anywhere without seeing Canada+Quebec flags flooping about). Lots of different cultures.
Reason for Joining (optional): CANUCKS UNITE! GO JEAN POUTINE! CANADIAN BACON! MEET MAH POLAR BEAR "SPARKY"!

On another note, Winnie the Pooh doesn't know squat about blistery, cold days. Was a chilly one in Montreal yesterday!

On the topic of French immersion, I was in it until Grade Four. Again, I lived in a small, crappy little city where French was really, truly not taken seriously; HOWEVER, we still learned passé composé in Grade Four (at least, the basics). I have no idea why some of you guys are learning it way into Seven, Eight and even Nine when it's part of the Grade Four curriculum. Shrugbeans.

After Grade Four, I was in Extended French so I was taught half my courses (well, was supposed to; didn't happen most of the time) in French i.e. History, Art, Geography, P.E. I guess it was rather advanced compared to immersion because when I came back from Québec in '09 and tried to partake in a Grade 11 French course (normal, not Extended), the level was so horrible in comparison - plus, the teacher sucked monkeybeans - that I actually homeschooled that year instead, dropping French altogether. I went back for the '11-12 school year (Extended, since they let me back into that school - they didn't take too kindly to me dropping out so suddenly to go live in Québec) and got 97% in the Extended French Class while tutouring Grade 9 Applied Core. The Academic Core was OK - they were learning Impératif and Imparfait + Conditionnel at that point - but the Applied Core's level was terribly low and filled with students who didn't care about it whatsoever (which didn't help). They were still learning the names of fruits - we were taught that in Grade Three Core/Immersion! - and could barely construct a sentence in French.

I do wish schools would take French more seriously, at least in Ontario where believe it or not, coming across someone who speaks French isn't that uncommon. Not a daily occurrence, but I saw francophones in my own crappy little 30k town in the middle of buttbeat nowhere, so... Not to mention, Hull, Ottawa, Timmins, Niagara Falls, North Bay, etc. have respectable francophone communities. South Manitoba has'em too, for those in Northern Ontario. Hum...

###

Also, if you come to Quebec and want tickets, you ought to know how to say it in French. If not, read a French Phrases for Dummies book or something. The same goes for Quebec->Ontario. If you want to buy a bus ticket in Toronto, say it in English, since that's the language of the area. Canada being "bilingual" is a false description of our nation because we all act on a provincial basis anyway. No one cares about traveling or the neighbouring province. All that matters is that you know a language that functions where you are; which is a bad attitude for later, because knowing both is a fantastic skill!

What irks me is that (note, I'm anglophone) there are a lot of anglophones who don't give a crap about French because they think they'll never need it or use it. In theory, they could say the same thing in Quebec, but there being anglophones over there who refuse to learn English makes it so that they're more pressured into adhering to the English people's demands, while English people content themselves with pretty much getting their way. I don't agree with that.

I'm happy with a new bill they passed recently, where English can no longer be a requirement for employment. The only language you can say is obligatory to a job is French and you can't not hire someone for not knowing English. Obviously, there are certain domains that are omitted from this, but basic service jobs (i.e. Cashier) are in accordance with the new bill. And I likey. Mucho. Again, I'm from Ontario and speak English first, French second, and I find that the bill is only fair. If you want to know how much your order costs, or what your bill is, come prepared: http://www.amazon.ca/gp/offer-listing/0764572024/ref=sr_1_1_olp?ie=UTF8&qid=1364891267&sr=8-1&condition=used

It's really not that much to ask when most of the time, francophones are getting a lot less service in all the other provinces (minus, say, New Brunswick) than anglophones are getting in Quebec. Anglophones aren't really feeling the pressure either from curriculums and the likes to learn it either, as suggested already. Plus, some places you can opt out of French altogether if your parents complain enough. You can't do that in Quebec. You learn it up til Secondary 5 (HS 11 equivalent in Ontario, but still considered a high school diploma) and you can't opt out. It's a diploma requirement and they're hardbums about it.

Not too fair. imo bilingualism should become more enforced, otherwise drop it and make it a provincial thing. Then you can start considering Quebec (or, for someone in Quebec, Ontario/elsewhere) an "exotic" foreign location (yet, still national) like Rome or something where you definitely would try to "do as the Romans do" out of respect for another "province" or nation. I don't see why these rules don't apply when it's inter-provincial, but do when it's a new country. Silly is as silly does.


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Captain Gizmo

Monkey King

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Canada
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10.6 Years
Last week was the most awesome temperature that Montreal got for Spring yet. Didn't even drop below 0°C and max it would be was like 15°C, although it didn't go that high :P

We could go out with only a sweater! xD
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Kanzler

naughty biscotti

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Toronto
Seen April 22nd, 2022
Posted March 11th, 2022
5,957 posts
14.8 Years
Username: BlahISuck

Relation to Canada: Immigrated to Montreal when I was 3. Then I moved to London, and have been in Toronto ever since. I love Canada, so much that you could call me a nationalist. I don't think I could've developed an immigrant/citizen identity anywhere else. I do have a multicultural identity that is probably only representative of Toronto, so my "Canadian" experience is quite limited in that respect. Other than that, I frequently compare Canada with the States to come to the conclusion that we are better. Let the bigotry flow freely!

Favourite Province: Ontario. Actually Toronto. I've lived, gone to school, hung out with friends, and conducted business in an area - and it's not even a neighbourhood, a pretty big area - where racial minorities are 90% of the population for 10 years. University came along and then I learned that white people live in Canada too. Oops.

Reason for Joining: I had no idea this club existed! I've been lurking in emulation for the past three years, so I guess this is relatively new. But I always want to embrace my Canadian identity, no matter where I am.

---

Why is it still so cooooold. I got all my snow to melt, but somehow it's still freezing. Wait actually I think this is supposed to happen. There is always a thaw at the end of March and a freeze the week after. I remember when it snowed pellets on April Fool's day in grade 4. Apparently the weather will be tolerable Thursday.

Yusshin

♪ Yggdrasil ♪

Age 30
Quebec, Canada
Seen May 13th, 2013
Posted May 13th, 2013
2,414 posts
13.8 Years
Last week was the most awesome temperature that Montreal got for Spring yet. Didn't even drop below 0°C and max it would be was like 15°C, although it didn't go that high :P

We could go out with only a sweater! xD
There was a day that it was super warm and pretty :D and like, all the snow melted practically lol

But today and yesterday... BRRR D:


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Cherrim

Age 34
she / her
Toronto
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Posted 6 Days Ago
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20.4 Years
Am I the only one who isn't ready for winter to be over? I can't stand spring. Mud and I don't get along, so I'd much rather snow coat the ground or the ground stay frozen/frosted enough that I don't sink into it when I walk. I could stop taking my shortcut through the park on my way home and stick to sidewalks but that adds on a whole 3 minutes to my walk. I was kinda happy today that it snowed again, even if a fair amount of it melted by the end of the day. :P

...I'm genuinely curious whether we'll talk about the weather as much over the summer once it's not cold anymore. For being a winter country, we sure like whining about snow a lot. It's the topic on like every page here haha.


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Kanzler

naughty biscotti

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Toronto
Seen April 22nd, 2022
Posted March 11th, 2022
5,957 posts
14.8 Years
What I love about Canada is that nobody lives here. I walk on the road a lot, especially if it's not a major one. Cars can move into the left hand lane if they want to.

Edit: are you at Waterloo for university?

Brendino

The Ruins of Alph
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Posted April 6th, 2023
8,567 posts
13.4 Years
Am I the only one who isn't ready for winter to be over? I can't stand spring. Mud and I don't get along, so I'd much rather snow coat the ground or the ground stay frozen/frosted enough that I don't sink into it when I walk. I could stop taking my shortcut through the park on my way home and stick to sidewalks but that adds on a whole 3 minutes to my walk. I was kinda happy today that it snowed again, even if a fair amount of it melted by the end of the day. :P

...I'm genuinely curious whether we'll talk about the weather as much over the summer once it's not cold anymore. For being a winter country, we sure like whining about snow a lot. It's the topic on like every page here haha.
Like I keep saying, it's almost as if Vancouver is isolated from the rest of Canada by the Rockies, since we never seem to get winter (although, it did randomly snow outside for about an hour last week, even though it was 7° out). As it is, it got as warm as 20° here on Easter, and had been hovering just below that until today. Again, if anyone's tired of their cold weather, just tell Old Man Winter to ship some out west next year, please and thank you.

And I'm sure that we'll keep talking about the weather well into summer, but maybe we'll just do it in French.

"Il était beau et chaud à l'extérieur aujourd'hui."

Brendino

The Ruins of Alph
Seen 3 Days Ago
Posted April 6th, 2023
8,567 posts
13.4 Years
Are there really lots of Chinese people in Vancouver? I've never been in town, just at the airport stopping over. How does it compare to Toronto?
I've never been to Toronto, so I'm not quite sure how it compares, but yeah, Vancouver does have quite a large Asian population (Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Filipino, East Indian, etc.). It's actually one of the things I find fascinating about being here- having such a broad range of ethnicities living in and around the city. My work is a good example; of the ~70 people working there, we've got people born in 11 different countries excluding Canada itself.

On that topic (and to maybe get away from all the weather talk), I'm curious as to how many people here were born outside of Canada? And if you were born here, where were some of the past generations of your family born? Seeing as how multicultural the country seems to be, I expect we might get a wide variety of answers.

Captain Gizmo

Monkey King

Age 29
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Canada
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I'm the first generation of my family that's been born in Canada, lol. My mom's side of the family were all born in Philippines except for two of my cousins who are like 6 years old and 3 months old. My dad's side of the family is like me, all their kids are born here and their age are like mines 13 to 20ish~
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Cherrim

Age 34
she / her
Toronto
Seen 16 Hours Ago
Posted 6 Days Ago
33,049 posts
20.4 Years
Edit: are you at Waterloo for university?
Yup. :3
Are there really lots of Chinese people in Vancouver? I've never been in town, just at the airport stopping over. How does it compare to Toronto?
There are because that's the closest spot for them back when a lot of families immigrated here. We invited a lot of Chinese to help work on the railroad before Canada got kind of antsy about Asians for a while. As far as our history goes, we weren't very nice to Asians and definitely didn't prefer them over white immigrants. :( That's obviously changed since the past but I think that's still the reason there's such a large population of Chinese/Japanese over there. I don't remember the city well enough to draw a comparison to Toronto, though. I don't think it's as "segregated" though... in that the Asian population is very spread out in the Vancouver area rather than Toronto where the bulk of it is focussed in Markham or... I guess the Chinatown area?
On that topic (and to maybe get away from all the weather talk), I'm curious as to how many people here were born outside of Canada? And if you were born here, where were some of the past generations of your family born? Seeing as how multicultural the country seems to be, I expect we might get a wide variety of answers.
The only one of my grandparents who wasn't born in Canada was born in England. Everyone else was born here. I think my background is mainly Scottish, though I know there's some aboriginal in there because my Grandmother (or someone along her line) was Métis.

I dunno, my family's been here so long that I don't consider my background to be anything but Canadian. I'm so fuzzy on the details and I only know where the one grandfather and the ancestor carrying my last name came from so I don't really relate with any other countries. :P


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Kanzler

naughty biscotti

Male
Toronto
Seen April 22nd, 2022
Posted March 11th, 2022
5,957 posts
14.8 Years
On that topic (and to maybe get away from all the weather talk), I'm curious as to how many people here were born outside of Canada? And if you were born here, where were some of the past generations of your family born? Seeing as how multicultural the country seems to be, I expect we might get a wide variety of answers.
Chinese immigrant here! Moved over at the tender age of 3. I can still speak mandarin decently well, so my cultural heritage hasn't been obliterated from assimilation.

I don't remember the city well enough to draw a comparison to Toronto, though. I don't think it's as "segregated" though... in that the Asian population is very spread out in the Vancouver area rather than Toronto where the bulk of it is focussed in Markham or... I guess the Chinatown area?
It is decently segregated so much that for 10 years of my life I forgot white people existed :P. But seriously, I lived in Agincourt (Cantonese/South Asian), hung out in Markham (Chinese) and Malvern (South Asian/Black). And then I started commuting downtown for university. The effect is magnified because I don't think white people take public transit as much as they're represented in the population (1 in 10 in Agincourt, I got the numbers), probably because immigrants are poorer as a whole? But there is some mixing going on within our minority dominated neighbourhoods as well. My next-door neighbour is Japanese, the house across from me is Italian, there's both Tamils and Indians, and I played basketball with Black and an Egyptian dude. All on the same little residential street. I think that's a pretty good showing :P

U of T sucks for student life. We're all study robots lol but nobody really cares.

TRIFORCE89

Guide of Darkness

Age 33
Male
Temple of Light
Seen November 25th, 2017
Posted October 21st, 2016
8,122 posts
19 Years
There are because that's the closest spot for them back when a lot of families immigrated here. We invited a lot of Chinese to help work on the railroad before Canada got kind of antsy about Asians for a while. As far as our history goes, we weren't very nice to Asians and definitely didn't prefer them over white immigrants. :(
Yup. I think I did a report on that in history class during high school. Japanese internment and stuff.

I think a little bit of every culture has had it rough over here XD Not to the same extent as the above, but the Germans and Italians weren't well liked during WWI and II. Actually, I think they blocked Italian immigrants here at one point too

I dunno, my family's been here so long that I don't consider my background to be anything but Canadian. I'm so fuzzy on the details and I only know where the one grandfather and the ancestor carrying my last name came from so I don't really relate with any other countries. :P
I consider my Canadian first. But whenever someone asks and I'll say that, I immediately get a follow up "No, but really what are you?". So, now I just answer "Italian" instead not necessarily because I identify with them more, but whenever I say "Maltese" no one seems to know what I'm talking about XD Just saying Canadian would be much simpler and true, but no one likes that answer :(