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TMs and HMs

Fourth Generation Diamond, Pearl, Platinum
HeartGold, SoulSilver

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Old March 15th, 2013 (8:55 PM).
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In the 4th Generation, we got a new handful of TMs added to the previous long list of them. They included some sneaky moves such as U-turn which allowed the user to attack while also switching to a different Pokemon, which I found pretty neat. There were also some powerful attacking moves thrown in, while a few non-damaging TMs also made an appearance. My question to you is, what did you think of the new TMs in this generation? Should they of gotten rid of any of the TMs? Why do you think that?

Personally for me I wouldn't change anything, not even the slightest detail. Pokemon has its strength and weaknesses, the game would honestly be no fun with all powerful attacking TMs, you know? It's nice throwing in some weak and strategic TMs to balance all of the attacking ones. Also to refresh your memory on all of the TMs in the 4th Generation, go here!

Now moving onto HMs, in this generation we saw the addition of two new HMs. These were Defog and Rock Climb, what did you think of their usage? And also the remaining HMs, some that still remained from the very beginning? Do you think they should of removed any HMs, or brought back any? And without further ado, discuss!
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Old March 31st, 2013 (1:19 AM).
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The TM's were very well done in my opinion. I liked the variety. The game itself seems to pace itself in handing out 'good' TM's as well unlike previous games where it seemed to be that finding one, you'll soon find a dozen.

The HM's were not so good. I was happy to see Flash go (who wasn't) but replacing it with Defog was just a kick in the teeth. To further that they made Flash a TM, and improved its accuracy! That really, really annoyed me.

Rock Climb was well, I dunno. Bibarel can learn it, so I guess I can't complain about that. I was relatively happy with the change from Gen III though I would have lived to have seen Dive kept. Understandbly there is a lot less water in Sinnoh but still, that part of the game in Ruby/Sapphire and Emerald was just the best. Say what you want about Hoenn's water routes but I love them!

I don't know what's the more pointless and annoying HM, Defog or Whirlpool.
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