Before capture: weaken or faint?

Started by moon August 27th, 2013 3:47 AM
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moon

they/them
Seen 11 Hours Ago
Posted 22 Hours Ago
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15.5 Years

If we disregard the game mechanics, where a pokémon obviously can't faint before a capture because the battle would end then...

Do you think it makes most sense (for any reason and in any other iteration of the pokémon universe, or in your own headcanon) to just weaken or befriend a pokémon before throwing a pokéball at it, or do you think it's better to make it faint first?

An explanation to make the game mechanics seem realistic could be that a pokémon can't be captured by a pokéball it has never been inside before when it is fainted, because it's energy is too low. It's different when it is your own fainted pokémon being called back, because it has been captured by that pokéball before. That's an idea, at least.

What do you think, faint or weaken, what makes more sense outside of the game?

(this is partly a researching question because I'm wondering how I should RP, haha)

paired with Ivysaur
Seen February 26th, 2015
Posted February 8th, 2015
1,908 posts
10.3 Years
In a sense, weakening a Pokémon to an inch of it's HP is nonsense. (Remember that meme from BBS Magazine?) No wonder all Pokémon have low base happiness.

Neither is beating them to a pulp. However, I think taking into consideration the "taming a Pokémon with force" aspect says out that Pokémon should still be caught when they've fainted. I believe it has been done in the anime.

But of course, there should be a factor hindering us, right? I mean, there's a reason why defeating a Pokémon is way easier than catching it. "Arceus fainted! Go Pokéball!" and Arceus, despite being the harbinger of Pokémon, has no energy left to fight back. So, in the games it's a "necessary evil" of sorts. Of course, I'd be happy if Pokémon dumps the whole "Pokéball" concept in general, but then that's one of the taproots of the franchise. Hell, it's its namesake.

It's as illogical as capsule balls compressing living beings in general. It's one of the various mysteries of the franchise one mustn't dwell on. Like the concept of Pokémon death, or carnivorous fodder.
~

moon

they/them
Seen 11 Hours Ago
Posted 22 Hours Ago
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15.5 Years
Well yeah, some things in the pokémon world we have to just accept even if it doesn't completely make sense in reality.

But on this topic, I think it is a bit weird to make a pokémon faint completely before capturing it. How would it trust you then? You kicked its butt, captured it inside a little ball and now you expect it to follow your orders. I was always a bit annoyed when Ash capture pokémon that way and they were just his friends immediately. It has happened several times.

If you weaken a pokémon, you show that you are the stronger one but also that you can show mercy, in a way. Either that, or connect with the pokémon somehow so that it simply wants to come with you. This is not really possible in the games (unless it is a gift pokémon, or your starter; the professor often remarks that it has taken a liking to you and therefore you should be allowed to keep it, right?) but in the anime or other media, I think it would be strange to capture a pokémon after it's fainted. Even if it might be easier since it can't really struggle against it or something. Or that "too little energy to be captured" theory, maybe.
paired with Ivysaur
Seen February 26th, 2015
Posted February 8th, 2015
1,908 posts
10.3 Years
Well yeah, some things in the pokémon world we have to just accept even if it doesn't completely make sense in reality.

But on this topic, I think it is a bit weird to make a pokémon faint completely before capturing it. How would it trust you then? You kicked its butt, captured it inside a little ball and now you expect it to follow your orders. I was always a bit annoyed when Ash capture pokémon that way and they were just his friends immediately. It has happened several times.

If you weaken a pokémon, you show that you are the stronger one but also that you can show mercy, in a way. Either that, or connect with the pokémon somehow so that it simply wants to come with you. This is not really possible in the games (unless it is a gift pokémon, or your starter; the professor often remarks that it has taken a liking to you and therefore you should be allowed to keep it, right?) but in the anime or other media, I think it would be strange to capture a pokémon after it's fainted. Even if it might be easier since it can't really struggle against it or something. Or that "too little energy to be captured" theory, maybe.
This is true. Another theory is that this is just an unwritten rule that's followed even by the cheaters, due to pure habit and drilling. Like how even the Evil Team Leader makes it a point to battle with only six Pokémon, no more.

What the whole thing boils down to, is that Pokémon don't seem to be so resentful on the factor of being compressed into a tiny ball and being dragged around into a journey and defeating numerous Pokémon, mostly wild and sometimes their own kind, just because of following orders. If they aren't worthy, they still seem content to be sealed off forever into a PC of sorts, in contrast to a nice, natural life in the wild where they will grow up, find mates and have children of their own, as well as participate in nature-bound activities. This loophole doesn't seem to be mentioned much in the Mystery Dungeon games either, so I believe it's a ready-off fact.

However, I have spotted a citation sometime back while playing through Pokémon Conquest, a warlord known as Motonari (original warlord of the Greenleaf kingdom) references to this by vaguely saying that he's heard that in a far-off place, people compress Pokémon into tiny balls, and how quaint it sounded.

Like I said, illogically logical business is abundant.
~

Shamol

Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.

Age 31
Male
Texas
Seen November 7th, 2021
Posted November 28th, 2016
185 posts
9.8 Years
This is one of the more insensible things about pokemon IMO. You realize this especially when you have to explain the how capturing pokemon (by hurting/fainting it beforehand) makes sense in the context of pokemon's happy-go-lucky holding-hands-and-singing atmosphere to non-fans.

I think it's just difficult to explain. Exceptions would be the legendary or particularly rare/strong pokemon who value things like courage and strength in their trainer. Even then the consequent feeling would be admiration or respect, not so much of friendship.

This is probably why in the anime, there are very many different ways to capture pokemon (unlike the games). Most of the cases, the capture is made by demonstrating different character traits of the trainer- virtue, kindness, generosity, courage or strength. That way it's more of a choice on the part of the pokemon, and so the friendship issue is easier to explain. It's understandable why Ash captured some pokemon by hurting/fainting them- this was probably done to maintain the anime's congruency with the games. But I think the game's portrayal of hurting and capturing pokemon doesn't fit pokemon's overall character at all. I usually content myself by not asking why or whither to enjoy the ice-cream on my plate at this point.

OP, why don't you put on your Christopher Nolan hat and try to come up with an RP plot that makes use of a more realistic concept?
Male
The Usa
Seen January 24th, 2020
Posted June 9th, 2018
340 posts
14.8 Years
So here I am strolling along in the forest.
Yum yum, I eat some berries or whatever else I find.
Suddenly!
Some human hops out and decides (s)he wants to fight me!
After fighting against the trainer and the pokemon I get beaten severely.
The human throws a pokeball and I'm too weak to fight against it, but I'm still conscious so I know what's going on.
The pokeball clicks and I get locked in.

What about this makes a pokemon want to fight for a human?

moon

they/them
Seen 11 Hours Ago
Posted 22 Hours Ago
37,443 posts
15.5 Years
Well if you wanna know then weakening a Poke makes sense where it has a little will power to fight back. Add a Pokeball at it and it's yours after brain washing
How do you mean it makes sense to leave it with some power to fight back? Wouldn't it be better to faint it completely so that is has no power to fight back?

@ Shamol, maybe.
paired with Ivysaur
Age 33
Male
Finding new Challenges !!
Seen November 27th, 2021
Posted September 20th, 2015
2,724 posts
12.4 Years
How do you mean it makes sense to leave it with some power to fight back? Wouldn't it be better to faint it completely so that is has no power to fight back?

@ Shamol, maybe.
Well what can I say more. Let' say if any one faints it, in general it cannot be captured right? then How can one restores it is another story. I hope I clearified you here
Route 49
Seen February 7th, 2016
Posted June 21st, 2015
612 posts
10.5 Years
In the gaming world: If it's a Pokemon that has Sturdy, then I would try to faint it just in case, otherwise I'd always weaken it.

In the real world: I wouldn't do either as both of these actions hurt Pokemon. We know that most Pokemon don't like being hurt so instead I'd rather try to gain friendship by doing helpful jobs to see if it likes me, just like how Sandile trusted Ash in Battling the Bully!. That should be the best way to catch Pokemon in my opinion.
Boilurn, the Scald Pokemon and the evolved form of Hottle. It can burn the holder by the lightest of touches when it boils. It can boil 3 gallons of water in one minute.

Ajin

Male
Seen September 27th, 2013
Posted September 27th, 2013
51 posts
9.7 Years
I'm pretty sure the balls have some sort of brain washing thingy on, that's how the Master Ball can catch full health level 100 enraged legendaries.

Assuming not, however, the "let's become friends organically" approach should work better, even though weakening / fainting is more pratical. Not to mention it's pratically canon that Pokemon love battling.
Age 28
Female
USA
Seen October 23rd, 2013
Posted September 29th, 2013
28 posts
9.7 Years
When I think about this too much, I can't help but realize how dark it is, and with no way to justify it. But if it were possible, I'd try to befriend the Pokemon. If not, I'd weaken them just enough.
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Nick

Seen 3 Weeks Ago
Posted July 28th, 2021
17,572 posts
18.6 Years
In a video game sense, I think it would make more sense to make it faint and catch it that way, but in an in-character in-realm sense, I think it makes more sense (and is a lot more ethical) to meet a Pokémon in the wild, earn its trust, befriend it, and ask it to join you in an adventure.
Male
In a Rabbit
Seen July 13th, 2022
Posted June 9th, 2022
824 posts
9.8 Years
A pokemon comic called Pokemon X has a very humorous way of explaining this: whenever a wild pokemon faints, some committee teleports the fainted pokemon away with TELEPORTATION BEAM FROM THE SKY to prevent pokemon from being harmed unnecessarily further, heal it, and release it back into the wild. It wasn't a very good comic, imo, but I thought their using an outrageous explanation to explain something that didn't make sense already in-game was pretty funny.

Anyways, my headcanon is that when a wild pokemon faints, they use their remaining strength not to battle, but to run away. Why? To ensure you don't kill them.
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