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  #51    
Old November 1st, 2013 (2:44 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slayr231 View Post
They have happened before.

June 8th 2001, mass murder at an elementary school, 8 children dead, 13 children wounded, 2 teachers wounded. Weapon of choice: Kitchen Knife

The site wouldn't give me the exact date, but in China, 27 people died in a mass murder. Weapon of choice, knifes.

April 10, 2013, mass stabbing (luckily no deaths), 14 students at a community college stabbed, 2 seriously injured. Choice of weapon, knife.

I'm not saying that knives are common, but they do happen. Guns are the choice of weapon in mass killings because they're the most efficient. However, they are not the only weapons used. There are a lot more cases like the ones above, so please do not say that mass murders won't happen if guns are banned.
Two instances out of a rather large sample (For instance, mass murders/shooting sprees in the US, say 2000-2013) is statistically meaningless. And even in the stabbing event in 2013 - 0 fatalities. And that's not even going into how long the killing sprees went on for, etc. I could walk into a croweded area and kill hundreds of people with a semi-automatic and a few extended mags in mere minutes. You can't produce the same amount of lethality with a knife. If that were the case, you know, more people would use knives.
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  #52    
Old November 1st, 2013 (3:22 PM).
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    Originally Posted by Livewire View Post
    Two instances out of a rather large sample (For instance, mass murders/shooting sprees in the US, say 2000-2013) is statistically meaningless. And even in the stabbing event in 2013 - 0 fatalities. And that's not even going into how long the killing sprees went on for, etc. I could walk into a croweded area and kill hundreds of people with a semi-automatic and a few extended mags in mere minutes. You can't produce the same amount of lethality with a knife. If that were the case, you know, more people would use knives.
    Hence, why I added this section.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Slayr231
    I'm not saying that knives are common, but they do happen. Guns are the choice of weapon in mass killings because they're the most efficient. However, they are not the only weapons used. There are a lot more cases like the ones above, so please do not say that mass murders won't happen if guns are banned.
    I just pulled the first three stories I found when I looked for mass murder with knives. There were lots more reports that I didn't post. Mass killings are a pretty rare occurrence in themselves. I agree that guns are more efficient and therefore used more commonly, because it would be kind of stupid to try to argue against that, but knives can be used too. I can pull more reports if you want me to, but like I said, there were a lot more stories I didn't post.
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      #53    
    Old November 1st, 2013 (3:28 PM).
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    I think this is horrible on both sides. Kid, if a COP out of all people tells you to drop the gun, you do not point it at him, no matter what you say, he will take it as a threat.

    Cop, maybe just a tazing gun would work...
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      #54    
    Old November 1st, 2013 (4:18 PM).
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      Cop, maybe just a tazing gun would work...
      That's EXACTLY what I've been saying! D:
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        #55    
      Old November 1st, 2013 (4:20 PM).
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        That's EXACTLY what I've been saying! D:
        Please refer to earlier arguments.
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          #56    
        Old November 2nd, 2013 (4:23 PM).
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          Originally Posted by Rezilia
          Okay, but if you shoot someone at certain point in the leg, you may kill off their ability to use that leg for the rest of their life.
          While it might be a dark way of viewing things, 99% of people would rather be paralyzed in one limb than dead by being shot in the chest. 'Acceptable Loses' in a way, I suppose. But I can see where you're coming from with taser guns. I would like to see all officers trained to use tasers, but I don't think it's happening any time soon.
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            #57    
          Old November 2nd, 2013 (4:32 PM).
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            Quote:
            Originally Posted by Pilkie View Post
            While it might be a dark way of viewing things, 99% of people would rather be paralyzed in one limb than dead by being shot in the chest.
            Uhuh...because living life without being able to walk correctly is so great a thing.

            Unless you've actually lost leg use before, you can't judge.
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              #58    
            Old November 2nd, 2013 (5:20 PM). Edited November 2nd, 2013 by Livewire.
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              Quote:
              Originally Posted by Livewire View Post
              Yes, because the mass murderer's weapons of choice are knives, swords, bows & arrows, etc.
              Great. Way to go there. Feel better about yourself, koffi~

              Again, you fail to miss the point. Guns are not the issue here. People are. People. People are killers. The people that do the killing. You know? The people that hold the weapon in their hands and make it go? Those people. Again, illegal weapons are always illegal, so gun control won't help in the slightest in that department. Same thing for Cocaine. Cocaine is illegal (albeit pricey). Do people still have it? Yes, of course they do. We have laws against it, but do these laws really prevent Richie Rich from scoring blow and snorting it off of Gloria Glad's bosom!

              Handguns can fit anywhere on one's body. I have a .22 it is around four inches long; I can fit this nearly anywhere on my person. Before you spout that .22 caliber weapons are not lethal, there is a reason why it was the chosen assassination weapon for the Sicilian Mafia: small, easy to toss, hard to find, and nearly untraceable due to the shattering of the bullets. And stop calling them mass murderers and terrorists for crissakes! You just feed yourself fear pie because of it. They're just murderers, plain and simple. Oh, and bombs are worse, just fyi. They kill more, they damage more, they're messy, inaccurate and readily available, more so than handguns, if one knew what to mix properly. If it came down to a vote, I'd vote for guns over bombs any day of the week, koffi~


              Quote:
              Originally Posted by Pilkie View Post
              While it might be a dark way of viewing things, 99% of people would rather be paralyzed in one limb than dead by being shot in the chest. 'Acceptable Loses' in a way, I suppose. But I can see where you're coming from with taser guns. I would like to see all officers trained to use tasers, but I don't think it's happening any time soon.

              They'll sue you for millions in potential damages. Even if they don't win, the people are still paying to keep the bastard in prison along with his lawyer fees, medical fees, etc. The reasoning is shoot to kill, because 'cruel and unusual punishment' is brought up in cases such as this. Some officers have even lost they're jobs over stuff like this. Again, Haiti hands, not trained to shoot legs or arms, split second decision making under extreme and nonequivalent pressure. People here have raised the argument that handguns are dangerous because of bystanders. Bystander death does not happen as often as you think, and most of these are from gang hangers; the more you know. . .

              Edit: See? See what I did there? Honestly though, why is gang and banger bad when merged together? Merriam-Webster defines them as "A member of a street gang." Unless you're thinking it's something dirty. In that case, shame on you. As one word it refers to a member of a street gang. Two words though. . . you guys may need to fix that. Technically it isn't a 'dirty' word. What would you like me to call them instead in short hand? Gang members. Or just Gangers. That makes no sense. Thugs it is!

              Fun activity: place your hand in front of your face. Is your hand bigger than your head? No? That's strange. I could have sworn someone said to shoot at the arms or legs. The hand is a smaller target than the head, right? What about the leg? Is it wider than the chest? It isn't you say? Really? Hm. . . so ergo, you have less chance of missing while shooting at the largest targets on the body! This is common sense people!

              If you've never been down to a gun range or never even held a gun, you can not really talk of how a gun functions in reality. You haven't felt it, you have no idea how things work, and you've never killed paper. Go down to the local range, shell out $40 and have someone help you out. Then you can talk about how hard it is to hit things. I've seen Marines drop rounds in the dirt at 5 feet. Hell, I've seen everyone (including myself) drop rounds in the dust, and we aren't being threatened by someone that could take our families away from us without care.

              You want police to be there on time, but you want them to be accurate as well. You want them to have the best technology, but complain about raised taxes. You want more police officers, but don't want junkies walking around downtown. You want less taxes, but don't like the death penalty. Make up your mind people! Either you want the police to do their job or not. I don't think anyone here has any right (including myself) to say how the police should function if we're not willing to allow some leeway. You can't have the best of the best of the best (sir!) officers and not have screwups on the force. People are peole. We can make our own choices. I choose to own my weapons, they do not own me. I don't go out shooting at people just because. True, there are people who do, most of them without their own weapons! Funfact: Sandy Hook had to kill his mother to steal her weapons. Even if she kept it under lock and key (she did, I believe), if she died, he can find said key and take his sweet time driving to school. I hate school shootings more than anyone else on this board. I swear. If you think I'm lying I'll bop you on your digital nose.

              Shootings constantly have an effect on people. They turn regular Joes into anti-gun fanatics. I have to defend my right to owning something when they have no clue what works, and what does not. They confound themselves on the technology of the machines. "He used an assault rifle." or "He used a machine gun." and "it was an automatic, capable of ending hundreds of lives in a crowd" You can't end hundreds of lives in a crowd kid, not unless you have 'elite' training, and my gut tells me you never will. First off: assault weapon? False. Semi-automatic rifle. Machine gun? See previous. Mass destruction? See bomb. School shootings make everyone around me act like retarded donkey-monkey-mammoth-walrus-pig children. Guns are bad. Ergo, everyone who chooses to own a gun is bad. I hate school shootings so much, I'm a proponent for the murders that use chainsaws, knives, bombs, and various other weapons so I don't have to see hollow artificial articles or advertisements with actors and what not. Someone in a similar claimed that child shooting victims are patriots to the NRA and gun companies. Hate to shatter your illusion, but every company or politician that used Sandy Hook in their anti-gun speeches were using those 'patriots' as a stepping stool. Those kids were used by everybody, not just the gun nuts.

              Saying that guns are the problem is like saying needles are the problem for our junkie population. What the hell? What kind of logic is that? "Guns are bad because bad guys use them." Well then, by that logic, I want you to strip naked, run out your front door without nothing and never look back. Why? Because bad guys use everything, koffi~

              Sorry. Overtime I lose my train of thought and trail off on something that is completely Helter Skelter. Forgive me. Just know, that school shootings would be much better if they were something else. It wouldn't be breeding all this animosity between us. Final Boss Weakness (last Protip): all things can be used as a potentially lethal weapon. I've had a school book taken away from me once because I was 'carrying it around like it was a rifle', the hell? School shootings really cut down the view of everyone. One side sees the end game, while the other sees the now. What everyone fails to see is that it's the kids that get harmed in the process. Kids suspended for blue hair. Had a kid get his little lightsaber keychain because it was a construed as a 'weapon' even though it was fastened to his backpack. Girls suspended for pierced lips. This is what happened with Columbine. We narrowed our view down so much we completely went bonkers and off the deep end. Please. We have more guns/violent videogames/metal/pornagraphy/etc. now than we did in 1927, but that didn't stop a man from killing 45 people with bombs now did it? Please, please, please understand. Guns can't ever go away. They've been around longer than everyone in this thread has been alive combined. Baddies will always be with us. They'll always find a way to torment you, harm you, kill or maim you. Even if you take away the guns, knives, etc. They'll be there sharpening a toothbrush or a comb, a screwdriver or anything else they can lay their hands on. Again, guns are not the enemy (see UZI post I made in paint. It's awesome). Bad guys are the enemy. Can we all agree on that? Bad guys being the enemy?

              edit re-edit: before you get all mad at me for 'avoiding your censor' and what not. The word is in the dictionary. And it does refer to what I stated. Members of a gang. It's been in use since the late 60's I believe. Not trying to be rude, but it is a very common term when referring to gang members. Cops will know what you're talking about when you say the 'censored' word. Very strange. Never thought I'd ever see that one censored.
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                #59    
              Old November 2nd, 2013 (5:59 PM).
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              of course this comes to a gun control debate.

              This "banning guns" argument, to me, seems a bit unnecessary. I understand why it happens, and I see that it happens all around the nation, but the fact of the matter is is that our nation was founded on the constitution as our governing document. We follow that to a T. We aren't going to remove anything, and even if Congress passed a law that amended it, I'm pretty sure the Supreme Court would label it as unconstitutional.

              Do I think that its the right thing to ban guns? Yes, I'm on the side that all guns in the United States should be illegal, with very rare circumstances, or at the very least very, very strict control and rights to gun ownership. But the fact of the matter remains, and the way our country was founded and how that document clearly labels our rights as citizens, anything that goes against it will be thrown out the window. No matter how many events like these occur, nothing like that will change.
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                #60    
              Old November 2nd, 2013 (9:01 PM).
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                Quote:
                Originally Posted by CoffeeDrink View Post
                common sense

                Saying that guns are the problem is like saying needles are the problem for our junkie population. What the hell? What kind of logic is that? "Guns are bad because bad guys use them." Well then, by that logic, I want you to strip naked, run out your front door without nothing and never look back. Why? Because bad guys use everything, koffi~

                all things can be used as a potentially lethal weapon.

                Kids suspended for blue hair. Had a kid get his little lightsaber keychain because it was a construed as a 'weapon' even though it was fastened to his backpack. Girls suspended for pierced lips.

                Never thought I'd ever see that one censored.
                You and I are of the rare few on these forums that have it, I swear.

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                Dude, I've seen a blank piece of paper censored before.
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                  #61    
                Old November 3rd, 2013 (9:17 AM).
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                Please, everyone. Let's try and keep this as civil as we can and do our best not to insult the intelligence of each other. We disagree on things, but that doesn't mean we lack common sense or don't understand anything.
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                  #62    
                Old November 25th, 2013 (11:53 PM).
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                  Quote:
                  Saying that guns are the problem is like saying needles are the problem for our junkie population. What the hell? What kind of logic is that? "Guns are bad because bad guys use them." Well then, by that logic, I want you to strip naked, run out your front door without nothing and never look back. Why? Because bad guys use everything, koffi~

                  all things can be used as a potentially lethal weapon.

                  Kids suspended for blue hair. Had a kid get his little lightsaber keychain because it was a construed as a 'weapon' even though it was fastened to his backpack. Girls suspended for pierced lips.

                  Never thought I'd ever see that one censored.
                  you can kill someone with a freaking spoon or house key. hit someone with just enough power at the right spot with a text book & their down for the count. pencils can be stabbed though someones thought & even without that there's the possible lead poisoning. crayons and paper can be used to choke people to death. heck, back when i was a kid(though i was more of a little demon back then) i nearly killed my teacher with a chair. all these things that are common & even mandatory in schools. the whole problem here is not the guns, its not anything on TV or in a video game, the problem is parents are to quick to blame the object rather then blaming whose really at fault. namely the ones who are to scared of the objects power to teach their children how to properly use it.
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                    #63    
                  Old November 26th, 2013 (12:08 AM).
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                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by shadowmoon522 View Post
                  you can kill someone with a freaking spoon or house key. hit someone with just enough power at the right spot with a text book & their down for the count. pencils can be stabbed though someones thought & even without that there's the possible lead poisoning. crayons and paper can be used to choke people to death. heck, back when i was a kid(though i was more of a little demon back then) i nearly killed my teacher with a chair. all these things that are common & even mandatory in schools. the whole problem here is not the guns, its not anything on TV or in a video game, the problem is parents are to quick to blame the object rather then blaming whose really at fault. namely the ones who are to scared of the objects power to teach their children how to properly use it.
                  Aaaaaaand just how many killings plastered all over the U.S. news the last year or so involved crayons, paper, pencils, spoons, housekeys, etc?
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                    #64    
                  Old November 26th, 2013 (6:21 AM).
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                  Due to the past even stated in the article, i can tell the would be on high alert- BUT i choose not to take a major side, just due to the fact the law was there, but hell, the kids 13, and they're all a little crazy. I dont believe the kid was a threat- and the police over reacted. Maybe if they explained to him the rule he would have understood and went home.
                  But now a child, a very young one to boot, is dead because of a mistake and a gun that could have just been made wrong/made for a diffrent state.
                  I feel sorry for all who are involved and that a mistake had caused this.
                  Sorry this post was a little all over the place- its a hard topic. :/
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                    #65    
                  Old November 26th, 2013 (9:44 AM).
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                    Quote:
                    Aaaaaaand just how many killings plastered all over the U.S. news the last year or so involved crayons, paper, pencils, spoons, housekeys, etc?
                    how many of those items are kids NOT taught how to be used to kids? kids should be taught how to use a gun & how lethal they can be. i'm not saying they should just outright hand a gun to a kid, that would be a very stupid move. teach them how dangerous it is, even if you have to scare the heck out of them.
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