"Officers acquitted in death of Kelly Thomas"

Started by Flushed January 16th, 2014 1:05 PM
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  • 5 replies

Flushed

never eat raspberries

Seen November 4th, 2017
Posted May 18th, 2017
2,301 posts
9.7 Years
I haven't seen a thread about this incident, but then again, I wasn't around on the forums when it first took place. And it's sad that I get a majority of my news from sites like Imgur. But in cases like this, spreading awareness through any means possible is definitely the only thing that matters.

Basically, two officers (I believe a third to be tried later) were put on trial (actual charges listed in the article) for the death of a homeless, schizophrenic man, Kelly Thomas. I've been seeing a lot on this incident recently, because everyone is really pissed off. Footage has been released of the officers beating Thomas, which I won't link to for obvious reasons, but it seems that it wasn't enough to convict the officers.

Something odd about this for me, is that it's not as polarizing as I thought it would be. I am in complete disagreement with the verdict, but somehow, there's a little part of me that can almost understand that the officers were, as the DA claims, "doing what they were trained to do." Regardless, Thomas's numerous cries for help overpower any sympathy I really had for the officers, so I do not think they should get off free. I believe there is a push for the case to be tried at a higher level.

Anyways, thoughts?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/officers-acquitted-in-death-of-kelly-thomas/2014/01/14/3e660b24-7d24-11e3-95c6-0a7aa80874bc_story.html

Kanzler

naughty biscotti

Male
Toronto
Seen April 22nd, 2022
Posted March 11th, 2022
5,957 posts
14.8 Years
I watched enough of the video. He wasn't complying with the officer's orders, so obviously if he continued to say "I'm sorry" instead of putting his arms behind his back, the police are going to get backup in order to restrain him their way. That's my interpretation of the video, and is the basis for the rest of this post.

Some people just don't learn how to listen. I will pass judgement for his personality, even though he's dead, because people who don't listen get in the way of many things (I'm sure many of us have experiences with that on this forum, even). This is a very good example of what happens when we get into those situations where we should stfu but we don't.

Beating a man senseless and eventually lifeless for not being able to cooperate with the way the authorities want things done isn't justified, but I think it's clear to see how one thing led to another. I think police departments need to further research and develop techniques for restraining people. There will always be people who do not follows the rules and doing the same thing to people who will not comply but isn't otherwise harming anybody is just insanity.

It's like using a hammer to screw something in. Not everybody is a nail. People who think there's a one-size-fits-all rule to dealing with people, especially distressed people, is out of touch with human nature. I don't blame the police officers at all. I'm sure they were as bewildered as the man they beat, as most people would have complied - you can't expect the officers to be experts on human psychology.

There are lessons we can draw to our lives in general. Respect that people are diverse and respect their differences. Acknowledge that strict rules cannot force everybody to behave the way you want them to - and when people are unable to comply with the rules, instead of following the old formula and scratching your head when it continues to fail, learn to adapt and use your personal judgement to reach a solution that's beneficial to everybody.

Silais

That useless reptile

Female
Seen July 16th, 2016
Posted August 27th, 2015
297 posts
9.8 Years
I watched enough of the video. He wasn't complying with the officer's orders, so obviously if he continued to say "I'm sorry" instead of putting his arms behind his back, the police are going to get backup in order to restrain him their way. That's my interpretation of the video, and is the basis for the rest of this post.

Some people just don't learn how to listen. I will pass judgement for his personality, even though he's dead, because people who don't listen get in the way of many things (I'm sure many of us have experiences with that on this forum, even). This is a very good example of what happens when we get into those situations where we should stfu but we don't.

Beating a man senseless and eventually lifeless for not being able to cooperate with the way the authorities want things done isn't justified, but I think it's clear to see how one thing led to another. I think police departments need to further research and develop techniques for restraining people. There will always be people who do not follows the rules and doing the same thing to people who will not comply but isn't otherwise harming anybody is just insanity.

It's like using a hammer to screw something in. Not everybody is a nail. People who think there's a one-size-fits-all rule to dealing with people, especially distressed people, is out of touch with human nature. I don't blame the police officers at all. I'm sure they were as bewildered as the man they beat, as most people would have complied - you can't expect the officers to be experts on human psychology.

There are lessons we can draw to our lives in general. Respect that people are diverse and respect their differences. Acknowledge that strict rules cannot force everybody to behave the way you want them to - and when people are unable to comply with the rules, instead of following the old formula and scratching your head when it continues to fail, learn to adapt and use your personal judgement to reach a solution that's beneficial to everybody.
Kelly Thomas was schizophrenic, and homeless. The potential danger he could have caused to one policeman may have warranted such a response, but for several officers to use deadly force upon one mentally ill man is unacceptable.

We've become frighteningly accustomed to police violence. Struggle and resistance should not be a death sentence. The man was obviously mentally disturbed at the time of the incident, and the police officers should have NEVER reacted in the way that they did. So he didn't listen to the officers. Did you expect him to? As I said before, he's schizophrenic and was obviously having episodic symptoms at the time of his "arrest". You cannot use physical violence against someone simply because they "won't listen". It's unacceptable. All that needed to be done was to have him physically restrained; there was no need to beat him, to strike him in the face with the butt of a taser.

We need to realize that police officers are becoming more and more immune to the justice system, just as the wealthy are. They can beat, torture, and kill a person and receive little to no punishment for their actions. There were a hundred different ways the officers could have handled the situation, but instead they used deadly force. Perhaps they weren't trained to deal peacefully with citizens; perhaps they're now being told to use as much force as possible, and to use that force to subdue the masses as a way to show authority. Sound 1984-ish? Perhaps it is.

Kanzler

naughty biscotti

Male
Toronto
Seen April 22nd, 2022
Posted March 11th, 2022
5,957 posts
14.8 Years
Kelly Thomas was schizophrenic, and homeless. The potential danger he could have caused to one policeman may have warranted such a response, but for several officers to use deadly force upon one mentally ill man is unacceptable.

We've become frighteningly accustomed to police violence. Struggle and resistance should not be a death sentence. The man was obviously mentally disturbed at the time of the incident, and the police officers should have NEVER reacted in the way that they did. So he didn't listen to the officers. Did you expect him to? As I said before, he's schizophrenic and was obviously having episodic symptoms at the time of his "arrest". You cannot use physical violence against someone simply because they "won't listen". It's unacceptable. All that needed to be done was to have him physically restrained; there was no need to beat him, to strike him in the face with the butt of a taser.

We need to realize that police officers are becoming more and more immune to the justice system, just as the wealthy are. They can beat, torture, and kill a person and receive little to no punishment for their actions. There were a hundred different ways the officers could have handled the situation, but instead they used deadly force. Perhaps they weren't trained to deal peacefully with citizens; perhaps they're now being told to use as much force as possible, and to use that force to subdue the masses as a way to show authority. Sound 1984-ish? Perhaps it is.
At the same time, can you blame policemen for carrying out their training? I haven't heard the details of the case and how culpable the police involved were considering the evidence, but like many organizations police follow rules and procedures. It's like the military, there's too much at risk if people don't follow rules and procedures. Unfortunately, the procedure might not be up to the task, and as we have seen here, even harmful. Is this event justified? No. Is it regrettable? Of course. But are the police guilty of doing something wrong? I think it's difficult to make that case.

I don't think the police are out there to get you. They're normal people like you and me. I know some cops and people aspiring to be cops myself. They don't want to beat, torture, and kill people. They're just trying to do their jobs and get on with their lives. Just like people who work in retail, they have to deal with stupid people too. I don't think he was mentally disturbed at the time. In any case, it's hard for anyone to tell. Are they using as much force as possible? I don't think so. They used excessive force, but I don't think they were doing it premeditated.

You cannot use physical violence against someone simply because they "won't listen".
That's resisting arrest. Using force against those who don't comply been done since the beginning of time, and I don't see what's changed to make it unacceptable now. He wasn't physically restrained, how could they have gotten him into the cruiser in that state? This is what police are trained to do. I don't think that's wrong in principle, although there were opportunities for the police to de-escalate the situation. Again though, as long as police were following procedure, it'll be to that extent that they cannot be found guilty.

Flushed

never eat raspberries

Seen November 4th, 2017
Posted May 18th, 2017
2,301 posts
9.7 Years
Are they using as much force as possible? I don't think so. They used excessive force, but I don't think they were doing it premeditated.

I don't think that's wrong in principle, although there were opportunities for the police to de-escalate the situation. Again though, as long as police were following procedure, it'll be to that extent that they cannot be found guilty.
This is the part that gets me. They may be following training, but had they taken the necessary steps to de-escalate the situation then there would have been a different outcome. Did they use all means possible to restrain him and avoid the use of excessive force? No, which is (correct me if I'm wrong) something you yourself allude to. Protocol certainly calls for restraint before physical violence right? Procedurally (apparently not a word), they did nothing wrong. But within their training, they overdid certain things and failed to do certain things that, logically, would've provided a better outcome. They should be held at least partly accountable for the decisions they made, as the nature of the details seem to deviate from standard procedure to the point at which you can't use "their training" as a defense.

acatfrommars

Male
Seen February 5th, 2023
Posted January 9th, 2023
3,870 posts
9.6 Years
Yes, the man had problems but killing him was taking things to the extreme. No matter what, if a person won't comply by the police officer's command then they are subject to use violence. Sometimes that is the only way.

He didn't listen to the officer so they has to use some force on him. The police officers should have realized that the man was not all the way there and shown some leniency but I can't really blame them for what they did. Like BiS said, they are simply carrying out their duty.