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  #26    
Old January 21st, 2014 (12:31 PM).
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    Never once has the story gotten convoluted, it has always been straightforward and linear. He doesn't plan more than thee weeks ahead? Are you being serious here? I honestly can't see how anybody would think that.

    So you think Naruto would be a better character if he simply offed all the bad guys and gave up on his friends. Okay. I think you might have missed the point of the entire series. It is about the ''gutsy ninja'' doing his best to eradicate hatred from the world. Hatred is given form by the bad guys (However obnoxious they might be the Uchiha, Sasuke especially are the perfect example) and Naruto sheds his light on them. So yeah, the bad guys were all turned into bad guys because of the world they live in, Naruto is rejecting the status quo and I like him.

    Sasuke comes from a clan with a genetic default that causes them to turn into power hungry madmen at the drop of a hat. He certainly has an excuse. As for people other than Naruto forgiving him when he turns up later....well, the enemy of the enemy is a friend. It isn't like they've let him back into Konoha with a clean slate or anything. I'd also like to add he has moved passed wanting to kill everyone now, if that means anything to you.

    Other characters, dunno why anyone would hate Itachi. He'd be in my top 5 characters in the series for sure. Obito was just another world turned me cold guy and Madara we still don't know his motivation yet so I won't judge. Sakura is pretty awful I will give you that.

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    ''Ichigo is as generic a shonen hero as it gets''

    At least 'five ambulances' Ichigo from the beginning was good. Didn't like him much after the GOTTA CONTROL THE HOLLOW angst set in. He's gotten over that recently so all is well there.

    Recently some characters in Bleach have been getting some development. The whole Unohana and Kenpachi thing. Captain doggy. Stuff regarding the SS and how it was formed and so on. Bleach has mostly been about cool boys doing cool things though, can't complain about that in a silly shounen.

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    Old January 21st, 2014 (1:31 PM).
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by -Lapras- View Post
      Never once has the story gotten convoluted, it has always been straightforward and linear. He doesn't plan more than thee weeks ahead? Are you being serious here? I honestly can't see how anybody would think that.

      So you think Naruto would be a better character if he simply offed all the bad guys and gave up on his friends. Okay. I think you might have missed the point of the entire series. It is about the ''gutsy ninja'' doing his best to eradicate hatred from the world. Hatred is given form by the bad guys (However obnoxious they might be the Uchiha, Sasuke especially are the perfect example) and Naruto sheds his light on them. So yeah, the bad guys were all turned into bad guys because of the world they live in, Naruto is rejecting the status quo and I like him.

      Sasuke comes from a clan with a genetic default that causes them to turn into power hungry madmen at the drop of a hat. He certainly has an excuse. As for people other than Naruto forgiving him when he turns up later....well, the enemy of the enemy is a friend. It isn't like they've let him back into Konoha with a clean slate or anything. I'd also like to add he has moved passed wanting to kill everyone now, if that means anything to you.

      Other characters, dunno why anyone would hate Itachi. He'd be in my top 5 characters in the series for sure. Obito was just another world turned me cold guy and Madara we still don't know his motivation yet so I won't judge. Sakura is pretty awful I will give you that.
      Never once has the story gotten convoluted? Come on man that's fanboy talk. Pretty much all long running series get messy at times. The majority of the War arc has been a convoluted cluster**** lol.

      I never said that Naruto would be better off killing bad guys left and right. But you can't always preach your way out of conflict and Naruto shouldn't even be trying to when they've killed and are still trying to kill innocent people including his friends and family. And for the record with Sasuke, he wasn't much of a friend to him to begin with to be honest. Up until very recently it was a completely one sided fixation on Naruto's part. They certainly were not close enough for Naruto to risk his own life just to bring Sasuke back to a village he clearly wanted no part of. The moment Sasuke tried to kill him and his friends he should have given up, instead he became even more crazy and obsessed with him. Yeah that's GREAT writing right there. NOT! It's beyond naive and delusional actually. I feel bad for any kids who read/watch Naruto because it teaches awful life lessons. It'd be like if someone wrote a romantic manga series about a guy who stays with his girlfriend who constantly cheats on him and abuses him, then divorces him and takes all his money but he still says he loves her for some reason.

      And if the point of Naruto is to eradicate hate from the world as you say, even if it comes at the expense and safety of him, his friends and countless of innocent people; then that means the point of Naruto is irrational and stupid! It's impossible to stop hatred and end all conflict, which is why Kishi's message is absolutely pointless and juvenile.

      Pointing out Kishi's last minute, out of nowhere asspull regarding the Uchiha being naturally crazy still doesn't justify Sasuke being a poorly written character, nor does it excuse Naruto being an awfully written Shonen in general. In fact it actually strengthens my argument because you're showing that Kishi has to rely on these types of last minute retcons just to keep his story going.

      As for what you said about Bleach I didn't read it because I don't want to be spoiled on anything. Keep in mind I'm only up to the Arrancar arc so forgive me for skipping over that part of your post.
        #28    
      Old January 21st, 2014 (2:20 PM).
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        I'm just not seeing the convoluted mess you clearly are. Also I wouldn't consider myself a fanboy, I just like fun.

        It wasn't a one sided thing though. Whilst they weren't conventional bros/rivals they've always had an unspoken bond back from when they were being orphans and stuff. Then the relationship started to build during the time they were teamed up, especially the Zabuza arc, Sasuke's Sharingan [re]awakening when he thought Naruto died made it pretty obvious. Then of course there was his whole inferiority complex. I do think their relationship should have been developed more but it is Weekly Shounen Jump, I'm not expecting masses of depth.

        You do have to suspend your disbelief a fair bit but tbh this is a world where 14 year olds fight against mass murderers and making your student pay for training with his body is perfectly fine. I think Kishimoto just doesn't like women. >mfw karin still wants the d

        I thought the Uchiha thing was an asspull at first but then I thought about it. However silly it sounded it literally explains everything. I mean come on, one of the first things we learn about the Sharingan is that it'll mutate into a stronger version if kill your best friend. They're powerhungry and mad enough to rip out the eyes of their own clan and were planning to take over the village. Itachi is the only Uchiha guy I've liked but for the dark vs light theme of the manga they work.
          #29    
        Old January 23rd, 2014 (5:23 AM).
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        What do people think of vampire anime? I've been watching Strike the Blood recently, which is pretty poor, but I've loved things like Shiki, Vampire Knight and Hellsing.
        I never know what to think of StB... Sometimes I love it, sometimes it gets to crap...
        Otherwise, I watch Vampire anime, they are sometimes very interesting.

        Quote:
        Originally Posted by -Lapras- View Post
        Ichigo's seemingly random powerups have been explained to a satisfying enough level for me in the most recent arc.
        Aren't random powerups spice of every shounen?


        Btw, why have this suddenly become Naruto/Bleach thread? o.O
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          #30    
        Old January 23rd, 2014 (5:27 AM).
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          Because I mentioned Bleach and someone said that Naruto doesn't abuse random power ups as much as Bleach does then it got out hand from there. Mostly my fault, I have to be less aggressive with my opinions. Sorry guys ) :
            #31    
          Old January 23rd, 2014 (6:11 AM).
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            I've never seen any Vampire anime before.
              #32    
            Old January 25th, 2014 (1:10 AM).
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              Okay one thing that's pissing me of watching Bleach these last couple of episodes is that they keep showing the key moments of the episode in the very beginning before the opening song plays. But it's all out of context and just ruins any potential surprise or shock for that episode when those moments play out. What idiot thought that would be a good idea?
                #33    
              Old January 25th, 2014 (2:02 AM).
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                Don't think anyone said Naruto doesn't abuse random powerups actually, Naruto's always made logical sense but the Uchiha seem to power up on Kishi's whims. Pretty sure the only powerlevel thing I said was that those in Bleach seemed rather strange until the recent explanation of Ichigo's past in the manga.

                No idea what you are talking about there I'm afraid. Never had that problem.
                  #34    
                Old January 25th, 2014 (2:13 AM).
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                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by -Lapras- View Post
                  Don't think anyone said Naruto doesn't abuse random powerups actually, Naruto's always made logical sense but the Uchiha seem to power up on Kishi's whims. Pretty sure the only powerlevel thing I said was that those in Bleach seemed rather strange until the recent explanation of Ichigo's past in the manga.

                  No idea what you are talking about there I'm afraid. Never had that problem.
                  Pretty sure if you look on page 1 you will find that Magic Fox said that Naruto doesn't abuse power ups as much as Bleach does. Then I pointed out that pretty much all shonen abuse the power up trope including Naruto. Naruto isn't perfect you know, in fact I think it's pretty damn horrible and possibly the most overrated manga/anime ever. But we're clearly not going to convince each other otherwise.
                    #35    
                  Old January 25th, 2014 (2:29 AM).
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                    Didn't notice that post.

                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by Magic Fox View Post
                    and the only way people get stronger is by somehow magically powering themselves up to a previous unheard-of level.
                    This is pretty much a battle shounen staple. All the training in the world is nothign compared to getting shot through the chest in battle to power you up.

                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by Magic Fox View Post
                    although I think the later performs it in a slightly more realistic way. ~reasons~ and shizz.
                    Up until recently Ichigo's powers haven't made total sense and Naruto's have right from the beginning. They're so similar though it isn't even worth arguing about.

                    Naruto's progression is more natural though as Kubo basically introduces a whole new breed of characters evert time Ichigo needs to train a certain part of his own power. That rinse and repeat aspect of Bleach is one of the reasons I prefer Naruto actually.
                      #36    
                    Old January 25th, 2014 (3:18 AM).
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                    Thank you Lapras for summarising my point, I didn't realise it caused such a stir I did say slightly less/more gradual, I wasn't saying Naruto never has power ups at all.

                    For instance:

                    Naruto had a three year timeskip to get up to scratch. Even after that he had lots of intensive training by different people.

                    Bleach (possible spoilers):
                    Spoiler:
                    Had Ichigo sit in a time-altering corridor for an episode so he could train for three solid months (even though it was only a few minute in reality) and he completely overpowered Aizen suddenly.
                      #37    
                    Old January 25th, 2014 (8:22 AM).
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                    Quote:
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                    For instance:

                    Naruto had a three year timeskip to get up to scratch. Even after that he had lots of intensive training by different people.
                    Though said training spots didn't require Naruto to come to near death to learn techniques, but to get them right in the heat of battle (Rasen-Shuriken) or hear of people having died on the warfront (Nine-Tails Chakra Form) and yadda yadda.
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                      #38    
                    Old January 25th, 2014 (11:06 PM).
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                      I was really enjoying the Arrancar/Aizen arc up until the final battle. And really? Yammy was apparently killed off screen? Lame! But yeah Ichigo's power up before his final battle with Aizen did seem a bit tacked on and extreme. Aizen losing his composure and getting outclassed the whole fight made me lose interest in him as a villain and took away a lot of the suspense from the fight itself. Seriously I knew Ichigo would improve but he literally became tiers stronger than Aizen after a couple of episodes.

                      This was the first power up that really bothered me. Even if that attack did come at the expense of his Soul Reaper powers, it was a very anti-climactic way to defeat Aizen.
                        #39    
                      Old January 29th, 2014 (1:57 PM).
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                      Lol you apologised for taking the thread into the HST's direction and now you're back to it :p

                      I've been recommended Oyasumi Punpun. Thinking of reading it. And watching Fushigi Yuugi these days. A good shoujo. If you ignore the excessive melodrama and the annoying MC.
                        #40    
                      Old January 29th, 2014 (2:03 PM).
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                        What's HST? I apologized for being so aggressive with my opinions. Not for simply talking about Bleach and Naruto.
                          #41    
                        Old January 29th, 2014 (2:04 PM).
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                          Punpun is pretty ok.

                          Excessive melodrama in your shoujo is also good. Try Oniisama e... and Utena.
                            #42    
                          Old January 29th, 2014 (2:05 PM).
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                          HST = Holy Shounen Trinity. Big three.

                          And ah, fair enough. I guess I didn't read properly :p I shall, lappy. Utena's already on my list.
                            #43    
                          Old February 4th, 2014 (2:58 AM).
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                          ... been a few days soooo.

                          So I haven't watched anime for a long time, but I recently saw all episodes of Angel Beats! and loved it ;; It wasn't the greatest anime ever, the characters were fun but not the most unique, but the overall theme and atmosphere was amazing. I wish I could find another anime with the same feeling.
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                            #44    
                          Old February 4th, 2014 (3:02 AM).
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                            Quote:
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                            ... been a few days soooo.

                            So I haven't watched anime for a long time, but I recently saw all episodes of Angel Beats! and loved it ;; It wasn't the greatest anime ever, the characters were fun but not the most unique, but the overall theme and atmosphere was amazing. I wish I could find another anime with the same feeling.
                            Then you should definitely watch AnoHana should be enough feels for ya! :D
                              #45    
                            Old February 4th, 2014 (3:05 AM).
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                            Oh, looks interesting. Thanks for the suggestion!
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                              #46    
                            Old February 4th, 2014 (3:15 AM).
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                              Oh, looks interesting. Thanks for the suggestion!
                              Menma would make you cry so hard lol.
                                #47    
                              Old February 4th, 2014 (4:48 AM).
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                              I recommend it too. A good anime. I teared up at the end.

                              I'm currently on a girly anime spree. Just finishee Fushigi Yuugi, watching Ova 2 now (good anime - made me tear up a few times too. Also nuriko is awesome) and now I'll be watching Kyou Kara Maoh. Calling them girly because they're choke full of bishounen characters lol.
                                #48    
                              Old February 4th, 2014 (5:05 AM).
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                                Right now I'm watching Gin No Saji Season 2 and I can see the greatness in the development of the story from season one to season 2. Vice Prez is so kawaii! :D
                                  #49    
                                Old February 4th, 2014 (5:34 AM).
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                                  Quote:
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                                  Right now I'm watching Gin No Saji Season 2 and I can see the greatness in the development of the story from season one to season 2. Vice Prez is so kawaii! :D
                                  Yeah, however, there's something different about the anime from the previous season, that's how I feel. Probably because of the change of directors.
                                    #50    
                                  Old February 4th, 2014 (5:35 AM).
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                                    Quote:
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                                    Yeah, however, there's something different about the anime from the previous season, that's how I feel. Probably because of the change of directors.
                                    Yeah, this season is better than the previous one hands down.
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