A couple of nagging questions...

Started by TheWarDoctor April 25th, 2014 8:01 AM
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Posted April 25th, 2014
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Hi guys!

So I have a few difficult questions about Pokémon and I'm wondering what you reckon. Everyone else has given me unsatisfactory answers, such as 'It's just a game/cartoon', 'You're reading too much into it' or just a flat out 'No'. I understand these are sensitive topics due to PETA's childish and stupid publicity stunts, but as someone who has been a fan since I was very young and is now coming back to the Pokémon world, these are questions that have recently cropped up in my mind and I would really appreciate some kind and open-minded responses to, since no one else seems to be willing to do that. Here goes:

1) Is making Pokémon battle each other forced or do they want to fight?

2) Why do they resist being captured, yet after their capture they are friendly and willing to fight for that trainer?

3) If trainers like Ash love Pokémon, why do they insist on hurting them to 'weaken' them just to make them their own?

It's been bugging me because it almost seems abusive. I like the games and the anime and wouldn't like to think of it like that, it would ruin it. I'm sure there's an explanation but I can't seem to find one. What are your thoughts?

Thanks for your time guys. I look forward to your responses. :D

-TheWarDoctor

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1) Is making Pokémon battle each other forced or do they want to fight?
Most theories I've heard trying to justify pokémon training and battling say that battling is natural for most pokémon species. They battle even in the wild. And they grow stronger from battling and can evolve and learn new skills from the experience they gain. So basically they want to battle anyways and human trainers help them hone their moves and skills and grow quicker! That's how I like to think of it.

2) Why do they resist being captured, yet after their capture they are friendly and willing to fight for that trainer?
Well, this always bothered me in the anime. I want to believe you have to earn a pokémon's respect. Some allow you to capture them if you are worthy - by defeating them in battle. Others, you befriend first and capture later. And some won't trust you even for some time after the capture. Of couuurse, in the games, it's much simpler. Maybe you can think of it as the pokéball's energy (thus the trainer's) defeating the pokémon's, making it understand that it's best to go along with the human for now. Or forever 8)

But yeah, it's not the most ethical game ever xD

3) If trainers like Ash love Pokémon, why do they insist on hurting them to 'weaken' them just to make them their own?
I think I kind of answered this in the text above. Respect and strengthening them and all. But again, the anime isn't really following my favorite theories. Everything's magical and everyone are friends in the end in that show :P
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1) Is making Pokémon battle each other forced or do they want to fight?

2) Why do they resist being captured, yet after their capture they are friendly and willing to fight for that trainer?
For these two, I'd say that yes, they do want to battle. An important note is that when you go walking in the grass or caves or etc, they appear, rather than you finding them. ('Pokémon can jump out of the tall grass', etc). That's them challenging you to see if you are 'worthy', or a good enough trainer for them. Think of it this way; if they want to fight, then going with a trainer who goes around the region taking on other trainers is a good way to battle! But if the trainer cannot show they can best them in a battle already, they'll resist capture.

Other points such as their happiness increasing with victories also suggests they want to fight. And there's even the whole BW plot. Meanwhile, many dex entries discuss the Pokémon fighting by themselves too (e.g. Fighting Pokémon training).
3) If trainers like Ash love Pokémon, why do they insist on hurting them to 'weaken' them just to make them their own?
I don't watch much of the anime. But note that it's up to the Pokémon as well. Again, if a Pokémon didn't want to battle, they needn't challenge a trainer to a battle in the first place. Then there's other professions that you see people have. Some use them for study, some in their jobs, some in contests.

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1) Is making Pokémon battle each other forced or do they want to fight?
I doubt it's forced, though we do know there are some bad trainers out there :<. A Pokemon doesn't really have to fight if it doesn't want to, it's usually when the Pokemon's up for a battle. Like how Ash's Oshawott always gets excited to battle when he comes out of his Poke Ball :p

2) Why do they resist being captured, yet after their capture they are friendly and willing to fight for that trainer?
I see capturing as a test for a trainer: to see if the trainer's strong enough to train the Pokemon he or she is trying to catch. The Pokemon show themselves and fight the trainer, to see if they're worthy, in a sense. A battle of will.

3) If trainers like Ash love Pokémon, why do they insist on hurting them to 'weaken' them just to make them their own?
It's a battle of more than just physical strength. To see whose trust in their trainer is stronger. I don't watch that much of the anime either, so I don't really know. Pokemon rarely battle to the death, too, so it's simply a test of relationship between Pokemon and Trainer. I kind of answered most of this in question 2, as well. Let me reiterate:
Battling a wild Pokemon's a test to see if the trainer is worthy of taking up the Pokemon into their team, and to raise it. Put short, it's a test of skill.
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Guys, let's be logical. The way it is is because it's a game.

1) Is making Pokémon battle each other forced or do they want to fight?

Come on. Pokemon are XYZ times stronger and have to be at least twice as smart. DO you really think that in real world, creature like Alakazam would just let a petty human tell them to do harm to another being for no other reason except for battle purposeless battle only? No. They'd kick our butts.

2) Why do they resist being captured, yet after their capture they are friendly and willing to fight for that trainer?

Cos they DONT. It's only like that in game or anime. I mean, when you capture an animal in real world...or shall I just give you an example. Try and grab a wild wolf and put it into a cage, would it be all "Oh my, you caught me, you gotta be so awesome so I guess I'll be your slave as from now on." No! It would attack you as soon as you'd release it! Sure, one huge Onix is totally going to respect you after you force it into a small ball thingy.

3) If trainers like Ash love Pokémon, why do they insist on hurting them to 'weaken' them just to make them their own?

"I love you Tauros, that's why I am going to catch bunch of you, take you from your natural habitat and put you into a pc where you can just live as a bunch of 0s and 1s(read: data) for the rest of your life". Yes sure, again, its only an anime. People get most of their pets cos they want to love them, without thinking about animals and the fact that animals dont need humans love. Exceptions are weak and hurt animals who really need our help and love.

So yeah, you just got the same answer that you consider unsatisfactory, but with arguments.


Edit: I am applying this rules from real life. Of course, we could always imagine that Pokemon like to battle, and that they are earning our respect, but even then, with people like team rocket, it just wouldn't be applicable in real world.

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"I love you Tauros, that's why I am going to catch bunch of you, take you from your natural habitat and put you into a pc where you can just live as a bunch of 0s and 1s(read: data) for the rest of your life".
I love you Tauros. I laughed more than I should have at this bit. Though to be fair, Ash's Tauros - all 30 of them! - are living happily at Oak's, not in a PC, so at least they're, you know, not data.

On a more serious note, I do agree with Sven, if the setting was the real world. But it is actually just a game, or an anime, or a manga, so we shouldn't apply any RL rules or try to look at it realistically.
  1. Is making Pokémon battle each other forced or do they want to fight?

    There may be some wild Pokemon who aren't that interested in battling, but most probably do want to fight, and some are actively looking to battle even trainers. In the games, it's the Pokemon who jump at you when you're wandering in the tall grass. In the anime, Ash's Buizel wanted to get stronger and was constantly challenge trainers - and then steal their fishing rods, hehe.

  2. Why do they resist being captured, yet after their capture they are friendly and willing to fight for that trainer?

    I like to think that when that Poke Ball shakes a bit and the goes "ping", it means the Pokemon has accepted capture. Not resigned to being capture, or forced by the ball's energy or something like that. They have fought the trainer and finally decided to join them, that's all.

  3. If trainers like Ash love Pokémon, why do they insist on hurting them to 'weaken' them just to make them their own?

    Well, that's the point of battling, isn't it? Ash isn't trying to hurt the Pokemon, as in evil intent; it's a fair match where the wild Pokemon is also dealing damage to the trainer's team, you know. And after the trainer proves itself, or however you want to see it, the Pokemon then tags along.

Thing is, there are also some differences among media; in the anime, some Pokemon may join without a battle, and there have been some notable examples, while something like this can never happen in the game. But like Sven said, it is a game after all, so of course there are certain mechanics to it, and as much as we try to give everything a realistic explanation, it sometimes just doesn't work that way.
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I love you Tauros. I laughed more than I should have at this bit. Though to be fair, Ash's Tauros - all 30 of them! - are living happily at Oak's, not in a PC, so at least they're, you know, not data.

On a more serious note, I do agree with Sven, if the setting was the real world. But it is actually just a game, or an anime, or a manga, so we shouldn't apply any RL rules or try to look at it realistically.
  1. Is making Pokémon battle each other forced or do they want to fight?

    There may be some wild Pokemon who aren't that interested in battling, but most probably do want to fight, and some are actively looking to battle even trainers. In the games, it's the Pokemon who jump at you when you're wandering in the tall grass. In the anime, Ash's Buizel wanted to get stronger and was constantly challenge trainers - and then steal their fishing rods, hehe.

  2. Why do they resist being captured, yet after their capture they are friendly and willing to fight for that trainer?

    I like to think that when that Poke Ball shakes a bit and the goes "ping", it means the Pokemon has accepted capture. Not resigned to being capture, or forced by the ball's energy or something like that. They have fought the trainer and finally decided to join them, that's all.

  3. If trainers like Ash love Pokémon, why do they insist on hurting them to 'weaken' them just to make them their own?

    Well, that's the point of battling, isn't it? Ash isn't trying to hurt the Pokemon, as in evil intent; it's a fair match where the wild Pokemon is also dealing damage to the trainer's team, you know. And after the trainer proves itself, or however you want to see it, the Pokemon then tags along.

Thing is, there are also some differences among media; in the anime, some Pokemon may join without a battle, and there have been some notable examples, while something like this can never happen in the game. But like Sven said, it is a game after all, so of course there are certain mechanics to it, and as much as we try to give everything a realistic explanation, it sometimes just doesn't work that way.
Now, if the concept for every Pokemon would be like that, that'd be great. I would love it if the PC was actually like a huge natural habitat like a huge Safari where there are people taking care of them and all, but, lets say there are thousands (only) of trainers. The heck am I supposed to put millions of Tauros, or even better, millions of Eevees some asshats (xD) keep breeding cos they dont like that they Eevee is, ugh, quiet, or jolly. "Sorry Eevee, but as a professional 10-year old breeder, I can tell that you're not adamant, so yeah, go to pc or wherever. (Eevee ilu)

1. True that. Pokemon just like humans and animals have competitive animals, but those instincts are not here 24/7, and we are using them for battles 24/7. 2 + 2 might be 4, but 4 =/= 5.(It's 4 AM and I am studying, I mean supposed to be studying math so yea, inspiration and stuff) What I am saying is that Pokemon are not competitive all the time, meaning that at least some of their time with trainers they are forced to battle. In real world, most Pokemon would be like Ash's Charizuard. They wouldn't give crap about the orders and would fight only when they wanted. Oh, and, "Oh trainer, you want me to battle? Sure, let me hydro pump you first, also, your food is my food."

2. and 3. I would just copy and paste my previous arguments but there is no need to.

Seems like everyone likes to "think" that something would be happening this or other way, but lets not forget to be realistic, we capture Pokemon, and we tell them to battle. They could battle outside, in the wild, but there is a difference when we constantly use them for battling.
Also, before someone says I am talking out of my butt (:D), I am interested in biology and psychology of the animals, and I often think about Pokemon irl, both about their physiology and psychological aspects, when i am bored, or when I am supposed to study, like right now :D

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I'm just going to give a broad answer covering all of the questions. I think it is instinct for pokemon to get stronger and battle. But, it's also in their nature is be submissive to humans.
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Spoiler:
Now, if the concept for every Pokemon would be like that, that'd be great. I would love it if the PC was actually like a huge natural habitat like a huge Safari where there are people taking care of them and all, but, lets say there are thousands (only) of trainers. The heck am I supposed to put millions of Tauros, or even better, millions of Eevees some asshats (xD) keep breeding cos they dont like that they Eevee is, ugh, quiet, or jolly. "Sorry Eevee, but as a professional 10-year old breeder, I can tell that you're not adamant, so yeah, go to pc or wherever. (Eevee ilu)

1. True that. Pokemon just like humans and animals have competitive animals, but those instincts are not here 24/7, and we are using them for battles 24/7. 2 + 2 might be 4, but 4 =/= 5.(It's 4 AM and I am studying, I mean supposed to be studying math so yea, inspiration and stuff) What I am saying is that Pokemon are not competitive all the time, meaning that at least some of their time with trainers they are forced to battle. In real world, most Pokemon would be like Ash's Charizuard. They wouldn't give crap about the orders and would fight only when they wanted. Oh, and, "Oh trainer, you want me to battle? Sure, let me hydro pump you first, also, your food is my food."

2. and 3. I would just copy and paste my previous arguments but there is no need to.

Seems like everyone likes to "think" that something would be happening this or other way, but lets not forget to be realistic, we capture Pokemon, and we tell them to battle. They could battle outside, in the wild, but there is a difference when we constantly use them for battling.
Also, before someone says I am talking out of my butt (:D), I am interested in biology and psychology of the animals, and I often think about Pokemon irl, both about their physiology and psychological aspects, when i am bored, or when I am supposed to study, like right now :D
Like I said, I agree with you perfectly. We are taking wild animals out of their habitats, and either force them to battle to exhaustion, or preserve them as data in digital storage. Sometimes we put them in the daycare and force them to breed; we end up with tons and tons of baby Pokemon that we either release into the wild, or again keep in storage. Or better yet, send them to random trainers, who'll just do the same thing - looking at you, Wonder Trade. So yes, in the real world, trainers are abusive ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥s who enjoy dog fighting. You wouldn't hesitate for one second before saying that blood sports are wrong, right?

But like the OP said, thinking of it that way just ruins the game. And that's why I said we shouldn't look at it realistically, and simply look at what's going on in the games. Pokemon appear in front of trainers, they battle, and then the Pokemon decides to join the trainer's party. The trainer is not forcing the Pokemon to battle, the Pokemon enjoys battling; it's as simple as that. And of course, PC storage and Poke Balls are magical places that Pokemon love to stay in. And breeding is also magical, even the daycare man doesn't know where the eggs come from. Wait, what? Oh yeah, that's a discussion for another day.