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Old May 7th, 2014 (3:43 PM).
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If they're not going to have the same storyline this time around and go with something different, what kind of a role do you think Magma and Aqua will play? Are you expecting them to keep their leader, or would a member of their own step up and take over? Do you want them to keep their outfits, or switch them up just for some breath of fresh air? :P Let's use this thread to discuss all related to Team Aqua and Magma!
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Old May 7th, 2014 (4:59 PM).
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If these are sequels, they'd probably change the leader. I think Maxie and Archie gave up at the end of RSE because they realized the mess they'd make. If someone was going to be the leader, it'd be someone else. I was just in the Aqua hideout yesterday, and Shelley said Archie promised this new world to someone. I'm thinking that "someone" will step up to become the leader. Who knows if they will try to obtain Kyogre or Groudon again, however. If they do, I think they'd Mega Evolve them, maybe. They look a little different on the box art......
I hope they would change the outfits too. They were all too similar, especially between the grunts and admins. The sprites were the same too.

I also hope they add some new music. The admins' music was the same as the grunts', and the Boss' music was the same as the legendary Pokemon's...... Even a remix would be better.

But if they aren't sequels, I hope they at least just add new music and differentiate between overworlds.
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Old May 7th, 2014 (5:04 PM).
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If these are sequels, they'd probably change the leader. I think Maxie and Archie gave up at the end of RSE because they realized the mess they'd make. If someone was going to be the leader, it'd be someone else. I was just in the Aqua hideout yesterday, and Shelley said Archie promised this new world to someone. I'm thinking that "someone" will step up to become the leader. Who knows if they will try to obtain Kyogre or Groudon again, however.
I hope they would change the outfits too. They were all too similar, especially between the grunts and admins. The sprites were the same too.

I also hope they add some new music. The admins' music was the same as the grunts', and the Boss' music was the same as the legendary Pokemon's...... Even a remix would be better.

But if they aren't sequels, I hope they at least just add new music and differentiate between overworlds.
Well you're kind of wrong with that music part. The boss music wasn't nearly the same as the legendaries'. I think these will be remakes, not sequels but either way would be cool! I hope all the trumpets in this game are used again because the orchastral take on it made it more epic!
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Old May 7th, 2014 (5:05 PM).
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As a big San Jose Sharks fan, I did like teaming with Aqua, thinking we are taking down everyone with a bunch of Sharpedos. Hope that stays the same. Maybe an unlock able uniform.
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Old May 7th, 2014 (5:06 PM).
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I want a super involved role from both of them instead of a linear take over the world plot. It has the potential to be really exciting; I don't know how yet, but I can see the whole domination over land or sea as being a really interesting plot direction if it's played up a little more than the original games. Kyogre bringing about an infinite rain and Groudon bringing on an infinite drought were really good elements, but after the Sootopolis incident and chasing the leader through the cavern, it kind of fell flat. I understand them giving up after the beasts were tamed, so to speak, but... they could've gone after Rayquaza or something. idk what I'm really expecting, I just want MORE. I want these games to be super exciting.
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Old May 7th, 2014 (5:17 PM).
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Well you're kind of wrong with that music part. The boss music wasn't nearly the same as the legendaries'. I think these will be remakes, not sequels but either way would be cool! I hope all the trumpets in this game are used again because the orchastral take on it made it more epic!
Ha, I don't know how I got them mixed up XD

But I agree, I hope they bring back the trumpets as well, especially for Route 104's music!
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Old May 7th, 2014 (5:17 PM).
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I just want to expect something new instead of "Oh no thugs that I randomly run into throughout the game until I have to bust into their base, beat them and catch a legendary"
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Old May 7th, 2014 (8:06 PM).
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I want them to be in the same storyline, probably because seeing Archie's masculine features in 3D would be awesome (I have no shame.) That being said if it is a sequel I think that the two would have given up as well. I really do hope that it sticks to the original though - I just want to relive the nostalgia, honestly.
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Old May 7th, 2014 (11:16 PM).
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I'm thinking that the old Magma and Aqua will cease, Maxie and Archie would be valuable NPC's and a new reiteration of Magma and Aqua will rise with new leaders.

I was thinking that maybe even a Gym Leader or an E4 would be a part of the new Team Aqua and/or Magma like Malva did in X and Y
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Old May 7th, 2014 (11:46 PM).
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It would be super cool if they added another hideout, to elongate the involvement of Team Aqua/Magma. I would also like it if both the two teams would only have bases in water/land. In the original games, Team Magma and Aqua both had bases in the water. It would be so cool to see the Mt. Chimney base for Team Magma instead of the underwater one. You know, for it to look realistic.
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Old May 8th, 2014 (6:46 AM).
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Sooooooo.
^sorry just happy about ORAS. But how do you think team magma/aqua will be like in ORAS? More mischievous or tougher? But what Pokémon should/would be their common used Pokémon? (Poochyena was used before)
Should the teams be more intertwined with the protagonist or be more dramatic? Or both?
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Old May 8th, 2014 (7:04 AM). Edited May 8th, 2014 by Taemin.
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I like it when somehow the enemy teams are more tied to the protagonist!

Like how with Plasma we got to know N, even though he was supposed to be seen as an enemy, and it did change the way some of us viewed Team Plasma, I imagine. I'd like for something like that to be done with Magma and Aqua. Like how in the anime we saw more of them because of Lance sneaking in, and we saw more of their personalities in the show. -w-
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Old May 8th, 2014 (7:09 AM).
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I'd definitely like to see more personalities to them so they're not just "another team." It makes them more memorable that way. ^^

I definitely would like to see them come back though. Perhaps they could interact with the player some more.
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Old May 13th, 2014 (7:44 PM).
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I expect Team Magma and Aqua to have their roles in ORAS inflated, because the originals didn't give them close to enough time to develop their story. I think Game Freak hit a home run with the foundation of Team Flare, and I hope they transfer that over to the remakes. I'm a big fan of Magma and Aqua's concepts, and I think they have a lot of potential that was only barely touched on in RSE.
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Old May 13th, 2014 (8:54 PM).
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Oh boy I hope this post doesn't end up being too long.

First off, regarding their outfits...if they receive a slight change, that's fine, but don't change the idea. It was brilliant--
"We at Team Magma want more sun! Time to put on these hoods, leg warmers, partially black clothes and...oh no we appear to have melted."
"We at Team Aqua want more rain! Let's dress like pirates, with thin clothes, no jackets...oh dear is this the flu I've caught?"

Now that that's about of the way, in terms of their story relevance...

Each villainous team leader has been "evil" in their own way, which is one of the things I love so much about Pokémon.
Giovanni is driven by greed; he knows he's bad, and doesn't care. He realizes his actions are "evil" and even admits it, but as long as he gets his money he doesn't lose any sleep.
Cyrus shows psycho/sociopathic tendencies and claims to want to put an end to strife but shows more desire to control the universe than to bring an end to suffering. He had a sad childhood and his character is the result of various bad influences.
N is doing what he thinks is right for Pokémon, and is truly a good person--he simply got caught up with the wrong people, and is one of the most (if not the most) complex, interesting, and powerful characters the series has ever had.
Ghetsis is mad, with a lust for power and a disregard to both people and Pokémon (we've had people be abusive to Pokémon in the past, but to people! To his own foster son! That's really a big topic for any Pokémon game to handle). Arguably the most evil character in Pokémon in terms of just...pure evil-ness.
Colress is so neutral it's amazing. He only misused Pokémon because he thought it would bring out their true potential. But explain to him that being nice is the way to go? "Oh, I'll try that out instead."
Lysandre is warped, with good intent but taken to the extreme. Although it conflicts him he refuses to let go of his ambitions. A very tragic character.

And then there's Maxie and Archie.

During RSE, the villainous team(s) are painted as sinister, but in reality they're just doing what they think will benefit the world. They're not like Cyrus--Cyrus was the sole person benefiting from his plan. Maxie and Archie thought everyone would benefit, they just didn't realize it. They're so engrossed in their "heroic plan" that they fail to see the negative consequences they would bring. And once their plans are enacted, they actually understand the true impact of what they've done. Unlike Lysandre, who knows what he's doing is wrong, but still goes through with it, Maxie and Archie see their mistakes, admit their wrongdoings, and ask for help in stopping what they've started. Some people may call it silly, and in a way it truly is, but it makes Maxie and Archie surprisingly complex and even relateable--we've all thought something would be good for us, only to find out it was a bad idea after it's too late. It's only "silly" because of the scale Maxie and Archie take it to.

If ORAS can paint Maxie and Archie in the light of characters who want to fix the world but can't see farther than a few feet, they can become even more complex and even likeable. They weren't necessarily dislikable before (unless you just didn't like the whole "save the planet" stuff), but they didn't play up the strengths of their characters enough to give us something to really enjoy from them (unless you're like me, and you read into everything with way too much fervor).

Another thing that I really want to point out is their dynamic in RS. I know I'm probably the only person who prefers RS over E, but hear me out: in E, all that happens is that they're both evil. Two misguided men with opposing ideals and the power to bring their plans to fruition. It's powerful, to be sure, but in RS one of them was good.

One of them though to himself, "Wow, this team doesn't realize what they're doing. We need to put a stop to them!" and gathered a whole group of people to counter their plans. Remember how epic it was when in BW (almost) all the Gym Leaders stood up to Team Plasma? That's what one of the teams did in RS.

In addition to having a good but misguided evil team leader (which is already interesting in and of itself), we had a counter-force who stood strong against them, battled them head-on at Mt. Chimney, and assisted you, the player, in thwarting their goals. This dynamic is unique even to this day in the Pokémon games, and to see it played up in ORAS would be amazing.

They could really give the player more opportunities to interact with the good team leader, offering more insight into their character, behaviors, and personality. There could even be more interactions between the two leaders, both during the story and post-game. That would allow us to see them while they're enemies, and after they've essentially "made-up." They can focus on their regrets and perhaps even make the two bond, turning the evil team leader into a redeemable character.

Another thing that would be so amazing is if Maxie and Archie had different thought processes, different ways of speaking. Instead of making them say the same thing but one says "land" and the other "water," they could really be unique and you'll get an even more unique experience depending on which game you play. It would also deepen their characters even further, and make them stand out instead of being generic.

As to whether or not this will occur, I can't say for sure. They may be remakes, yes, but they don't have to remain exactly the same as their origins, so the possibility for playing up their characters in certainly there. I really hope it happens, because Team Magma and Aqua tend to be regarded as the worst teams because of how absurd their goals were...but in reality, they're some of the best if not for the sole reason of them actually achieving their goals...and they also have the opportunity to become some of the most interesting, well-written, complex characters of the series simply stemming from their misguided nature.

I know it may seem like I just repeated information that everyone knows about, but the reason why Magma and Aqua are so overlooked is because, although it was great at the time, they weren't given enough complexity for people to really think much of them. All that text I typed? That's complexities that are there, but are overlooked because they're not taken full advantage of in the original games. By playing up their unique roles in ORAS, they could move up from being "the joke teams" of the Pokémon world.

It would be a tragic missed opportunity if these characters were not given the depth they deserve.
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Old May 13th, 2014 (9:05 PM).
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I'm excited to see what Team Magma is going to be like.
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Old May 13th, 2014 (9:52 PM).
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I think they should be more hostile with each other and treat themselves as political rivals rather than naive dictators. I felt that they were too nice to each other in the originals. For a plot twist one of the teams opposite to your version should actually get control over their legendary and battle you with it in the way B/W has it. Or you can even fight them through temporary alliance of an NPC Rayquaza to stop the war.

The sad thing to Maxie and Archie is that they are the weakest team leaders in the series. Absolutely no challenge in game. In my mind, Team Magma needs, the actual valcano pokemon achievable: Heatran, Typhlosion...Where as Team Aqua needs a Blastoise army.
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Old May 13th, 2014 (10:32 PM).
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I would kinda like if Team Magma and Aqua had a heightened perception of everything they are trying to accomplish. Maybe even have an event with Volcanion in post-game perhaps? Trying to 1-UP the other depending on the version? We will never know :)
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Old May 14th, 2014 (2:30 AM).
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Originally Posted by Rivvon View Post
During RSE, the villainous team(s) are painted as sinister, but in reality they're just doing what they think will benefit the world. They're not like Cyrus--Cyrus was the sole person benefiting from his plan. Maxie and Archie thought everyone would benefit, they just didn't realize it. They're so engrossed in their "heroic plan" that they fail to see the negative consequences they would bring. And once their plans are enacted, they actually understand the true impact of what they've done. Unlike Lysandre, who knows what he's doing is wrong, but still goes through with it, Maxie and Archie see their mistakes, admit their wrongdoings, and ask for help in stopping what they've started. Some people may call it silly, and in a way it truly is, but it makes Maxie and Archie surprisingly complex and even relateable--we've all thought something would be good for us, only to find out it was a bad idea after it's too late. It's only "silly" because of the scale Maxie and Archie take it to.

If ORAS can paint Maxie and Archie in the light of characters who want to fix the world but can't see farther than a few feet, they can become even more complex and even likeable. They weren't necessarily dislikable before (unless you just didn't like the whole "save the planet" stuff), but they didn't play up the strengths of their characters enough to give us something to really enjoy from them (unless you're like me, and you read into everything with way too much fervor).
Glad to see someone standing up for Aqua and Magma. I've heard so many people complain that their plans make no scientific sense, but at the end of the day Aqua and Magma just don't have the resources and workforce that the most recent teams have. Pretty much any other team had some kind of evil scientist working with them who made all their crazy devices. Really, the only device Aqua/Magma are ever seen using is that G.I. Joe-esque machine they use in Mt. Chimney and Archie certainly doesn't look like a guy who would know how to build such a machine. But, even though they have no idea what they're doing, they still have a clear goal in mind instead of just "The world sucks. Let's kill everyone and then maybe everything will be better. Probably."

Also, didn't anyone find it weird that the people living in Lilycove don't even seem to care about the Team Aqua base that's right next to their town? The older people in town seem to have a "those crazy kids" attitude towards them. Well, it dawned on me: Aqua and Magma, before the Groudon/Kyogre incident, were nothing but hooligans. They might bully weather scientists and Devon clerks and break into museums to... look at stuff (seriously they didn't even try to steal anything in there), but at the end of the day they are really not that big a threat to national security for the police to break into their hideout and aprehend them. At least not as big a threat as "Oh no! A giant, flying ship is going to freeze us all! Someone help us!" That all changed when they happened across Groudon/Kyogre and tried to use their powers to realise their goals and finaly make everyone take them seriously. Then, at what should be their greatest moment, Groudon/Kyogre prove too much for them to control and in their rage almost destroy the entire world. It's just like what would happen if Jessie and James ever got hold of a legendary Pokemon.

So, I too would like the remakes to give them a little more depth. Emphasize just how incompetent and un-threatening they are at the begining of the game and even play it for laughs. I also agree that Archie and Maxie should not be palette-swaps of each other. Archie looks like the loud, energetic one, while Maxie looks like the calm, collected one. They should give them new dialogue to reflect that.
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Old May 14th, 2014 (3:09 AM).
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I feel that ORAS should go by the Emerald approach, where both sides start off as your enemies.

In OR, you will face Team Aqua first which will then learn that making use of the legendaries for their goal could go really wrong. This is when Team Aqua will side with you. However, it'll be too late as Team Magma summons Groudon to create more landmass.

In AS, you will defeat Team Magma instead, which will then fail to stop Team Aqua from making use of Kyogre.

I'm actually quite hoping for Maxie/Archie to use (Mega) Groudon/Kyogre during their battle with you at the seafloor cavern.
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Old May 14th, 2014 (7:20 AM).
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Does anyone ele think that omega and alpha are similar to magmq and aqua
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Old May 14th, 2014 (8:21 AM).
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Glad to see someone standing up for Aqua and Magma. I've heard so many people complain that their plans make no scientific sense, but at the end of the day Aqua and Magma just don't have the resources and workforce that the most recent teams have. Pretty much any other team had some kind of evil scientist working with them who made all their crazy devices. Really, the only device Aqua/Magma are ever seen using is that G.I. Joe-esque machine they use in Mt. Chimney and Archie certainly doesn't look like a guy who would know how to build such a machine. But, even though they have no idea what they're doing, they still have a clear goal in mind instead of just "The world sucks. Let's kill everyone and then maybe everything will be better. Probably."

Also, didn't anyone find it weird that the people living in Lilycove don't even seem to care about the Team Aqua base that's right next to their town? The older people in town seem to have a "those crazy kids" attitude towards them. Well, it dawned on me: Aqua and Magma, before the Groudon/Kyogre incident, were nothing but hooligans. They might bully weather scientists and Devon clerks and break into museums to... look at stuff (seriously they didn't even try to steal anything in there), but at the end of the day they are really not that big a threat to national security for the police to break into their hideout and aprehend them. At least not as big a threat as "Oh no! A giant, flying ship is going to freeze us all! Someone help us!" That all changed when they happened across Groudon/Kyogre and tried to use their powers to realise their goals and finaly make everyone take them seriously. Then, at what should be their greatest moment, Groudon/Kyogre prove too much for them to control and in their rage almost destroy the entire world. It's just like what would happen if Jessie and James ever got hold of a legendary Pokemon.

So, I too would like the remakes to give them a little more depth. Emphasize just how incompetent and un-threatening they are at the begining of the game and even play it for laughs. I also agree that Archie and Maxie should not be palette-swaps of each other. Archie looks like the loud, energetic one, while Maxie looks like the calm, collected one. They should give them new dialogue to reflect that.
The idea of them beginning as simple hooligans is actually really interesting. I remember, at least in Ruby, some Grunts of Team Magma showed signs of corruption, joining for their own benefit and not the overall benefit of everyone. If they can play up that Maxie and Archie have good intentions, but had to get anyone possible to join their team, they could have a really interesting dichotomy--similar to Team Plasma vs. Neo Team Plasma in BW/B2W2.

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Does anyone ele think that omega and alpha are similar to magmq and aqua
I do think their names are a bit similar and their logos resemble them a little. It will be interesting to see how the titles tie into the games (especially since the Japanese logos bear a Red/Blue Orb-esque gem with the appropriate symbols on them).
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Old May 14th, 2014 (8:47 AM).
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I hope that Magma/Aqua does get more tied into the story and having battles with the protags. I think for the last battle (assuming megas are in it) that they should have their own signature mega, like it seemed Camerupt was Maxie's and Mightyena was Archie's (tell if wrong). But then what exactly should they have done after the whole battle (KyoGro one) and tget just get depressed? I say come back post game before leaving for good.
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Old May 14th, 2014 (10:33 AM).
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Jellicent♀ Jellicent♀ is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rivvon View Post
Oh boy I hope this post doesn't end up being too long.

First off, regarding their outfits...if they receive a slight change, that's fine, but don't change the idea. It was brilliant--
"We at Team Magma want more sun! Time to put on these hoods, leg warmers, partially black clothes and...oh no we appear to have melted."
"We at Team Aqua want more rain! Let's dress like pirates, with thin clothes, no jackets...oh dear is this the flu I've caught?"
Your entire post is incredible and I applaud you for it, but I wanted to highlight this part. this right here really does sum everything about team aqua and Team Magma. Two opposing teams, thinking they are doing a noble deed, but neither one can really fathom what they're about to do. What brought Maxie to believe that the best way to counter the sun and heat was to dress in winter clothing and hoods? What convinced Archie that dressing in the thinnest wardrobe possible would protect him from the rain? What I want to know is what truly drove these men down the misguided path. Surely they were at some point able to at least imagine the power they were wanting to unleash. I mean, these are the very Pokemon said to be responsible for the water and land in the first place. These men had enough sense and intelligence to rally up followers and create machinery and what have you to help them with it, SURELY they were at least once able to understand the power of these beings.

R/S/E missed a lot of opportunity with these guys. So needless to say I'd love it if ORAS really brought them into a brighter light and really showcase these two forces.
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Old May 14th, 2014 (1:52 PM).
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4D73R 4D73R is offline
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It would be cool if they had something to do with the mega evolution of Groudon and Kyogre (if it is a mega evolution).
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