Theory Arceus or Mew?

Started by SoulResonates July 4th, 2014 11:19 AM
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Non-binary
Nightosphere
Seen July 4th, 2014
Posted July 4th, 2014
3 posts
8.9 Years
I have just recently noticed something.
Alright, you know how Arceus is the God of all Pokemon and Mew is the ancestor of all Pokemon? And then everyone's just confused on who created who and who was first? Well, it's possible they might be in relation to real world claims of creation. Mew being the scientific part and Arceus being the religious part. You get what I'm saying? o.o I seriously want people to know about this.

MOD EDIT: We've had three seperate threads in the past week all discussing theories surrounding Arceus and Mew- please keep all discussion in this thread rather than creating new ones. Thanks!

moon

they/them
Seen 10 Hours Ago
Posted 21 Hours Ago
37,443 posts
15.5 Years
If you've watched the movies and the games' lore, it's more likely that Mew once lived in abundance like any pokémon. Kind of like the first fish rising from the ocean :3 Then they evolved into every species there is today, 'cept for legendaries.

With this as base, I like the OP's theory!
paired with Ivysaur

Enchantzii

Luv

Female
United States
Seen July 29th, 2014
Posted July 6th, 2014
9 posts
8.9 Years
This is the question that baffles the minds of the greatest Pokemon philosophers out there - Which One Came First? I'm here to share my theories and views of the subject. Just to clarify, the evidence I present is canon in-game, in the anime, etc. So, let's begin!
To start things off, I shall share some Pokedex entries. In Silver, it clearly states that "(Mew's) DNA is said to contain the genetic codes of all Pokémon, so it can use all kinds of techniques." Notice how it states all, which may include Arceus. However, this doesn't necessarily mean that it came before it, though. Moving on, Arceus's Pearl entry says "It is told in mythology that this Pokémon was born before the universe even existed." Also, Black and White shares that "It is said to have emerged from an egg in a place where there was nothing, then shaped the world." Very interesting... that it merged from an egg. However, what could have laid that egg? Perhaps it could have been formed over time... or created by Mew!
Now my theory starts to take off. Mew did create Arceus... and Arceus formed the world (it never stated that it created the universe, though, which we can just leave as a plot-hole for now)! Although not mentioned quite as clear earlier, evidence in the Pokemon Universe proves that Mew may just be the ancestor of all Pokemon, making it older than Arceus.
Is there information to prove my theory wrong? Do you have your own? Be sure to respond your thoughts in the comments below!
Male
Seen May 27th, 2015
Posted April 8th, 2015
67 posts
9.5 Years
This is the question that baffles the minds of the greatest Pokemon philosophers out there - Which One Came First? I'm here to share my theories and views of the subject. Just to clarify, the evidence I present is canon in-game, in the anime, etc. So, let's begin!
To start things off, I shall share some Pokedex entries. In Silver, it clearly states that "(Mew's) DNA is said to contain the genetic codes of all Pokémon, so it can use all kinds of techniques." Notice how it states all, which may include Arceus. However, this doesn't necessarily mean that it came before it, though. Moving on, Arceus's Pearl entry says "It is told in mythology that this Pokémon was born before the universe even existed." Also, Black and White shares that "It is said to have emerged from an egg in a place where there was nothing, then shaped the world." Very interesting... that it merged from an egg. However, what could have laid that egg? Perhaps it could have been formed over time... or created by Mew!
Now my theory starts to take off. Mew did create Arceus... and Arceus formed the world (it never stated that it created the universe, though, which we can just leave as a plot-hole for now)! Although not mentioned quite as clear earlier, evidence in the Pokemon Universe proves that Mew may just be the ancestor of all Pokemon, making it older than Arceus.
Is there information to prove my theory wrong? Do you have your own? Be sure to respond your thoughts in the comments below!
This is a very interesting theorie that i would like to give my own view on, now you used pokedex entries from the game which gives you evidence to back up your theorie which is always needed, but let me state something. Now if Arceus hatched from a egg, and the egg was created by mew, then why can't Mew lay eggs on it's own in the day care center? Mew is also genderless meaning that it couldn't have laid the egg. Now you could state Mew just created it, but why would Mew create a egg instead of Arceus itself? I think the egg had always been their, and when Arceus hatched he made the world and everything, and the first pokemon he created was Mew, and because of this he based all other pokemon off of mew,since Mew was the very first one.
Gerald the Theorist solving the world of pokemon since 1996.
Male
Seen May 27th, 2015
Posted April 8th, 2015
67 posts
9.5 Years
So i have been skimming the forums and i have noticed that people are debating who came first Arceus or Mew, Since Arceus is consider the god of pokemon, and Mew is consider the ancestor of all pokemon,so i thought i share my views on this.

Lets Look at their Pokedex entries first, Mews Silver pokedex entry states "Its DNA is said to contain the genetic codes of all Pokémon, so it can use all kinds of techniques." Take note it does not say that Mew created the other pokemon,but has the genetic codes of all pokemon.

Now lets look at Arceus from Pokemon X, "According to the legends of Sinnoh, this Pokémon emerged from an egg and shaped all there is in this world." Now many people will state that since it emerged from the egg this proves Mew came first, but does it really? Lets look at it this way, lets say the egg had always been their,which you could say isn't possible but that would also be stating it wouldn't be possible for Mew to always be their. Lets say Arceus hatched and he created the universe and everything,and then he made the world of pokemon, from here people who believe Arceus came first think he went ahead and made Mew and everything,but lets not forget Palkia, dialga, and Giratine.

Arceus is consider the trio master of the creation trio and the lake guardians(more on them later) The creation trio was made after Arceus created the universe with Palkia the Master of Space, Dialga the Master of Time, and Giratina the Master of Antimatter. Now you might be wondering why i am pointing this out but it is stated he made them right after he created the universe, if he did this why did he give Mew all the genetics of pokemon and not these guys? It is also stated he created the lake guardians who represent spirit before he fell into eternal slumber, with this in mind we can assume he made these guys last so they could, along with the creation trio keep the world in balance so he could fall into his eternal slumber.

Now lets Look at Mew the pokedex entries he has all state he has all the genetics of pokemon, would this also mean Arceus genetics? Why would Arceus give Mew his genetics as well since their would be risk Mew could use it to overthrow Arceus, which may sound stupid, but look at Giratina he was banished because of his violence so it's not like that couldn't have happened.

Lets look at the evil teams, Team Rocket was able to clone Mew Creating Mewtwo but when team Galactic tried to call and control the creation trio they failed, if Mew was the first pokemon out their then how could a evil organization be able to capture and clone him, but not the creation trio? One would assume Mew Would make all the pokemon weaker than him, not stronger.

I have bored you enough with text so here's my conclusion, i think Arceus came first theirs just more facts based off of it, now their holes in the theory either came first but i think Arceus still takes it,the only facts we get from Mew is that he has all the genetics of Pokemon while Arceus is the trio master of two trios and also is stated to have created everything. Although the debate is still open this is just my conclusion based off my research.
Gerald the Theorist solving the world of pokemon since 1996.

Brendino

The Ruins of Alph
Seen 3 Days Ago
Posted April 6th, 2023
8,567 posts
13.4 Years
Appreciate your theories and ideas on the matter, but you should have just posted in one of the existing threads discussing the matter rather than creating an entirely new one. I'm going to move your thread over there, so feel free to continue your discussion in that thread!

MERGED.

GhastlyGastly

Crazy Pokémon Lady

Female
Lumiose City
Seen October 12th, 2015
Posted October 5th, 2015
128 posts
10.3 Years
I have just recently noticed something.
Alright, you know how Arceus is the God of all Pokemon and Mew is the ancestor of all Pokemon? And then everyone's just confused on who created who and who was first? Well, it's possible they might be in relation to real world claims of creation. Mew being the scientific part and Arceus being the religious part. You get what I'm saying? o.o I seriously want people to know about this.

MOD EDIT: We've had three seperate threads in the past week all discussing theories surrounding Arceus and Mew- please keep all discussion in this thread rather than creating new ones. Thanks!
I've thought of it in those terms for a long time now :pink_smile:
Although I have my own theory on Mew (see the Mew thread in my signature), I've been convinced that the myth of Arceus is mere myth for quite some time. Nobody created the Pokémon universe but Satoshi Tajiri, haha :pink_giggle:
Male
Australia, NSW
Seen September 18th, 2018
Posted August 18th, 2014
24 posts
9.5 Years
YES, wait no. The story goes Arceus Created the pokemon that Created the world, Making pokemon like Palkia, Dialga, etc. This would also mean he created mew; So if you want to get technical and say Mew is the creator of the world; Arceus still is due to being the maker of mew.
Seen August 22nd, 2014
Posted August 22nd, 2014
17 posts
8.7 Years
What really adds an interesting wrinkle to the theory is that the idea (if you're going by PokeDex entries as a basis for the theory, anyway) would suggest that Mew, due to having the genetic make-up of all Pokemon, would also have the DNA of Arceus. Due to Mew's comparisons to Ditto and the suggestion there that somehow Ditto may be a failed Mew clone, Ditto's ability to transform also suggests that Mew can do the same (something backed up by evidence in the games, obviously).

So what's to say Mew and Arceus aren't just two different sides of the same coin? I.e. one in the same.
Male
Seen July 14th, 2015
Posted July 14th, 2015
1 posts
7.8 Years
A little late with this, but I was just giving it some thought. Bear with me and keep an open mind:

What if Arceus and Mew came from that same "egg" in the story? In science, we all learned that it takes a single cell to first begin the development of any living organism. That cell contains all the DNA needed to make things happen. If that "god cell" was in "a place there was nothing" wouldn't that be considered an egg of sorts? Now moving on with that; let's say the aspect of Mew was the cytoplasm and Arceus could be considered the cell membrane. Mew and Arceus were just a blobby thing in the same mush and not even Pokemon yet. When cell division occurred, Arceus and Mew separated into their own cells. I would think that a sort of meiosis happened where Arceus received one half of the "god cell" genes giving it the ability to change element types and give form to nothingness, while Mew received the other half of it allowing it to learn all the Pokemon moves and possessing all Pokemon genetic makeup. Arceus then shapes the universe and makes them "official" Pokemon. I'd like to think of it metaphorically as Mew received all the sounds of language but Arceus gave the sounds shape i.e. the letters of the alphabets.

From there, things happened as the storyline states because Mew would still posses all the genetic material Arceus does when he creates Dialga, Palkia and Giratina. Mew still has the DNA of every Pokemon and Arceus still created the universe. Neither came FIRST because they both existed in the same genetic pudding until cell division occurred.

I'd really like input on this, seeing as how I might have overlooked something vital. Oh, and sorry to the moderators for the lateness of this post :3

destinedjagold

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Age 32
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Posted March 24th, 2023
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16 Years
Mew being the scientific part and Arceus being the religious part. You get what I'm saying? o.o
Mind. BLOWN.

'nuff said :3

also, thread locks in 3... 2...

Brendino

The Ruins of Alph
Seen 3 Days Ago
Posted April 6th, 2023
8,567 posts
13.4 Years
A little late with this, but I was just giving it some thought. Bear with me and keep an open mind:

What if Arceus and Mew came from that same "egg" in the story? In science, we all learned that it takes a single cell to first begin the development of any living organism. That cell contains all the DNA needed to make things happen. If that "god cell" was in "a place there was nothing" wouldn't that be considered an egg of sorts? Now moving on with that; let's say the aspect of Mew was the cytoplasm and Arceus could be considered the cell membrane. Mew and Arceus were just a blobby thing in the same mush and not even Pokemon yet. When cell division occurred, Arceus and Mew separated into their own cells. I would think that a sort of meiosis happened where Arceus received one half of the "god cell" genes giving it the ability to change element types and give form to nothingness, while Mew received the other half of it allowing it to learn all the Pokemon moves and possessing all Pokemon genetic makeup. Arceus then shapes the universe and makes them "official" Pokemon. I'd like to think of it metaphorically as Mew received all the sounds of language but Arceus gave the sounds shape i.e. the letters of the alphabets.

From there, things happened as the storyline states because Mew would still posses all the genetic material Arceus does when he creates Dialga, Palkia and Giratina. Mew still has the DNA of every Pokemon and Arceus still created the universe. Neither came FIRST because they both existed in the same genetic pudding until cell division occurred.

I'd really like input on this, seeing as how I might have overlooked something vital. Oh, and sorry to the moderators for the lateness of this post :3
Thanks for your post coolguy, but just so you know, anything that hasn't been posted in for over 30 days is considered a dead thread, and shouldn't be bumped. Normally, I'd close this thread and ask you to post a new one, but I think there are a lot of good theories and ideas in this thread, so I'll leave it open. Just for future reference though, please create a new thread instead of you see any old topic you'd like to talk about, and even link back to the original thread if you'd like. Thanks!

also, thread locks in 3... 2...
ehehe, nope. ;P

I'm just full of surprises, aren't I?

Simon Science

Scientist

Male
Seen December 10th, 2015
Posted October 19th, 2015
26 posts
8.3 Years
Now, ive skimmed the arguments, and in general, it seems to be going like this:
Arceus created the universe and by extention mew.
But the pokedex states that mew has the genetics of all pokemon, and by extention arceus, so mew must have birthed arceus.

Here is where we must point out the most critical flaw in the "Mew came first" scenario.

Dose Arceus...

Even have a genetic code?

Think about it. Sure the legends say it came from a egg but that could just be metaphore. Sure ditto can use its copy ability on it but aigain, we have sources that ditto can copy inanimate objects, and thus dosent need a genetic code to transform. This would actually make scence for most legendaries that cannot breed.Think of heatran, palkia, dialga, giaritina. These pokemon are not animals. Artificial parts atached to their bodies, only one of their kind in existance... So, i will conclude that some legendary pokemon do not have a genetic code, mainly arceus, the dragon trio and the lake spirits to be completley safe. By extention we should include groudon and kyogre who were literally formed from water and magma respectivly. How would they get a genetic code from water and magma? The regi trio? WHat about pokemon that are literally built? arguments can be made for porygon and castform having genetic codes but look at golurk and golett's dex descriptions. What about ghost pokemon? How do you get the genetic code of a ghost?
Scientific!

Tigroid

Now you see me...

Male
In your browser
Seen October 21st, 2015
Posted August 8th, 2015
37 posts
9 Years
[QUOTE=Simon Science;8845978]
Dose Arceus...

Even have a genetic code?

Think about it. Sure the legends say it came from a egg but that could just be metaphore. Sure ditto can use its copy ability on it but aigain, we have sources that ditto can copy inanimate objects, and thus dosent need a genetic code to transform. This would actually make scence for most legendaries that cannot breed.Think of heatran, palkia, dialga, giaritina. These pokemon are not animals... only one of their kind in existance... So, i will conclude that some legendary pokemon do not have a genetic codeQUOTE]


My turn!!!
The above quote brings up (I feel) a very good point. Mew (to my knowledge) is never stated to have created anything. What if mew is nothing more than a "for kicks" project by Arceus? By this I mean Arceus thought something like, "I wonder what I would get if I mixed the DNA of all my creation?". If Arceus did this then we would have a more logical explanation as well as proof to Arceus's sense of humor.


Also, I don't think I want Nintendo to give us the answer... Threads like this always make me smile, ans sometimes the mystery is better before it's solved.
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