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View Poll Results: Are you for or against the ability to toggle the swear censor?
For 81 77.14%
Against 24 22.86%
Voters: 105. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1    
Old July 26th, 2014 (1:27 PM).
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I imagine you've had this thread before but I've not seen it in my tenure here; feel free to lock the poop out of this thread and redirect me to some thread that's already covered all of this before, but seriously, is there a reason why these swear censors are absolutely mandatory with no way to disable them at all? I know absolutely nothing about doing any sort of coding or anything, I'm not even sure how one would go about doing this at all, but there must be a way to have a toggle that a user can switch off at will in order to be able to curse and see their fellow members' cursing. it's a major hindrance to me because I curse a lot and I want to be able to do that without fear of my point being muddied because of someone's inability to comprehend exactly what I'm saying.

have it disabled from the start, that's probably the best way -- and then someone can choose to switch them off at their own will. is that a bad thing?
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Old July 26th, 2014 (1:42 PM).
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I think the main reason for it not being an option is to discourage people from swearing excessively in posts because it would no longer be filtered. That said, I agree and it's something I think we should have an option for. With COPPA now enforced here, we are all of mature age where if we want to see these words there shouldn't be an issue. Swearing is allowed in moderation on the battle server(and I assume IRC?). So I don't see an issue with having a toggle on/off switch as long as there would be some rule about excessive swearing.

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Old July 26th, 2014 (1:47 PM).
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Even though I am a person who does swear a lot, I'm against this idea. The only reason I am is because if the option is out there, then a lot more people are going to swear in their posts, increasing the frequency of posts that contain the censors for people who choose not to use that option. If you're a 13 year old and every post you come across has censor bars in it, then it could discourage the user from contributing to the discussion, or even worse, the person's parents come in and see all the censors themselves and decide that the user shouldn't be on a site like such that uses a lot of provocative language.

I don't see what the difference really is between the censors and actually seeing them written out. I think most people can make heads or tails of what the censor usually entails anyways.
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Old July 26th, 2014 (1:51 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elheroeoscuro View Post
Even though I am a person who does swear a lot, I'm against this idea. The only reason I am is because if the option is out there, then a lot more people are going to swear in their posts, increasing the frequency of posts that contain the censors. If you're a 13 year old and every post you come across has censor bars in it, then it could discourage the user from contributing to the discussion, or even worse, the person's parents come in and see all the censors themselves.

I don't see what the difference really is between the censors and actually seeing them written out. I think most people can make heads or tails of what the censor usually entails anyways.
we're big boys and girls, as Castform said the COPPA thing is also relevant, and I'm pretty sure that the majority of 13 y/os are going to be some of the ones who are going to be swearing the most, to be QUITE honest. I think this reason is kind of baloney simply because I don't think the lack of censors is going to really cause everyone to just drop 60 f-bombs a post.

if, like you say, people can more or less make out what the post is saying anyway with the censors, then it's not going to stop them from joining in on the discussion anyway if they reeeeaally don't want to see curse words, which I imagine is a chunk of the forum's population that you're overestimating.
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Old July 26th, 2014 (1:51 PM).
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Swearing isn't much of an issue here on PC, and I don't often see people doing it much (except for maybe in threads such as Dear Anonymous). If the filter were to be lifted, as Matt said above, it could encourage people to begin to swear more often and potentially offend people who are sensitive to curse words. Yes, it's the internet, but anything and everything can happen on it. Just sayin.
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Old July 26th, 2014 (1:53 PM).
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Originally Posted by Zach View Post
Swearing isn't much of an issue here on PC, and I don't often see people doing it much (except for maybe in threads such as Dear Anonymous). If the filter were to be lifted, as Matt said above, it could encourage people to begin to swear more often and potentially offend people who are sensitive to curse words. Yes, it's the internet, but anything and everything can happen on it. Just sayin.
if people start to abuse the lack of censors, then it wouldn't be too hard to just crack down on excessive swearing or, if need be, just put mandatory censors back on. the way I see it, doing this for like a week or two just to get a feel for it is a win-win situation, because if it fails, then no one's ever going to really pester about it again and if it doesn't, that crowd's happy.
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Old July 26th, 2014 (1:56 PM).
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Another suggestion I could possibly think of is perhaps allowing members to choose whether or not curse words get censored by an option in their User Control Panel. However, I'm not sure if that could be implemented or not, and of course have the option on by default when guests are browsing the forum.
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Old July 26th, 2014 (1:58 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maccrash View Post
we're big boys and girls, as Castform said the COPPA thing is also relevant, and I'm pretty sure that the majority of 13 y/os are going to be some of the ones who are going to be swearing the most, to be QUITE honest. I think this reason is kind of baloney simply because I don't think the lack of censors is going to really cause everyone to just drop 60 f-bombs a post.

if, like you say, people can more or less make out what the post is saying anyway with the censors, then it's not going to stop them from joining in on the discussion anyway if they reeeeaally don't want to see curse words, which I imagine is a chunk of the forum's population that you're overestimating.
The thing is though not everyone acts like "big boys and girls," and by lifting the censors it will, like you say, promote that it's okay for 13 year olds - and people in genearl - to profusely swear on the site. The censors are put in place so that it will overall hinder the amount of swearing that actually does go on. I understand that you and probably many others might want to have an option that allows this to go through, but in the end it all comes down to it being a sensitivity issue, where you are going to be more prone to tick people off my having an excessive amount of swearing in posts in general.
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Old July 26th, 2014 (1:58 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zach View Post
Another suggestion I could possibly think of is perhaps allowing members to choose whether or not curse words get censored by an option in their User Control Panel. However, I'm not sure if that could be implemented or not, and of course have the option on by default when guests are browsing the forum.


I think that is what maccrash was suggesting in the OP(but I may be wrong here)
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Old July 26th, 2014 (2:01 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Castform View Post
I think that is what maccrash was suggesting in the OP(but I may be wrong here)
that is exactly what I was suggesting! I'll respond to the rest later; about to go out to dinner
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  #11    
Old July 26th, 2014 (2:02 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Castform View Post
I think that is what maccrash was suggesting in the OP(but I may be wrong here)
Whoops, didn't see that last sentence there. I thought it was just mainly a suggestion to keep it off entirely by default with no option to enable it.
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Old July 26th, 2014 (2:30 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elheroeoscuro View Post
The thing is though not everyone acts like "big boys and girls," and by lifting the censors it will, like you say, promote that it's okay for 13 year olds - and people in genearl - to profusely swear on the site. The censors are put in place so that it will overall hinder the amount of swearing that actually does go on. I understand that you and probably many others might want to have an option that allows this to go through, but in the end it all comes down to it being a sensitivity issue, where you are going to be more prone to tick people off my having an excessive amount of swearing in posts in general.
For the record, IRC doesn't have censors. It also used to be known as one of the least "nice" places on PC. But there is rarely an issue with swearing too much. It's used for emphasis and if someone uses swearing against someone else then they're kicked/banned if it's persistent, but that's not common at all. With that in mind, I don't know why lifting censors here would cause people to profusely swear. We have a test case in the IRC that proves it won't cause that.

Of course, this is PC and I highly doubt this will actually go through because I remember the last censor conversation. I just wish I could change the censor to something less bulky and space-consuming like stars or hyphens.
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  #13    
Old July 26th, 2014 (3:20 PM).
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    Would've been more impressed if you're said "I swear we've had this thread before" but the moment has passed. Ah well.

    Yes - Matt (maccrash) is saying that the OPTION to remove them is there. Obviously, have them up in the first place.

    I swear occasionally, censored or not. I don't see why this shouldn't be a setting, it's probably one of the easier things to work into the coding if there aren't already settings in the ACP.

    I've been on a forum with children under 13 that makes the censors optional for 13+ members, and given that we don't even HAVE under-13 members, I feel it's not an unreasonable request.

    Words that some people have a grudge against are still words, and language is a toolbox where every last word matters. My English teacher in my last two years of school used to encourage effective use of profanity, when appropriate, and it does make sense.

    Some people are always going to fail to use words, but I can assure you, if they're using censored words poorly, they're probably not doing a good job with the rest of the words they could be using either.

    tl;dr: please just let this happen without hassle and fuss
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      #14    
    Old July 26th, 2014 (7:53 PM).
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      While I personally am against it, I'm going to say that I really wouldn't mind regardless of what conclusion is reached. I wouldn't turn the filter on anyway.
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      Old July 26th, 2014 (7:57 PM).
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      I'm on the fence about this. On one side, it does seem logical and fair to permit users to be able to turn off the filter. It's a form of customization, which most if not all people would like. My problem with this, and Matt mentions it above, the ability to visually see curse words may promote a person to use them more. Even with the filter up, seeing a whole bunch of ♥♥♥♥s can come off as extremely discouraging and even taboo to the younger crowd here. We aren't all late teenagers, keep that in mind.

      On the topic of places like IRC and The Battle Server permitting cursing, but PC not, I see it this way: both of the aforementioned places are chat sites. Nothing there, to an extent anyway, is permanent, but things on this forum are, till someone decides to remove them. While that might not seem like the most logical argument, think about it this way as well: cursing in general isn't something to abuse. Someone who goes of throwing an f-bomb in the chats, while that may be permissible, isn't exactly going to be received well, I'd think, by others. The same concept holds here.
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      Old July 26th, 2014 (8:52 PM).
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        Eh, a toggle would work and the swear censor is pretty weak (I can bypass it at my leisure). But in a Pokémon discussion forum I wouldn't think people swear a lot/have the need for swearing. Even though mostly swear words used around here are not to offend anybody (but just relate to the topic) I don't know whether we should remove it.

        Then again, it's just a neutral opinion. If a filter is made, I wouldn't use it, but I wouldn't mind seeing a lot of ♥s in posts, if that's a problem.
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        Old July 27th, 2014 (5:47 AM).
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Vital View Post
        On the topic of places like IRC and The Battle Server permitting cursing, but PC not, I see it this way: both of the aforementioned places are chat sites. Nothing there, to an extent anyway, is permanent, but things on this forum are, till someone decides to remove them. While that might not seem like the most logical argument, think about it this way as well: cursing in general isn't something to abuse. Someone who goes of throwing an f-bomb in the chats, while that may be permissible, isn't exactly going to be received well, I'd think, by others. The same concept holds here.
        the fact that it's a chat would actually make it more easy to abuse. it's hard to fit a bunch of f-bombs into a forum post; plus I find chat a way more easy-going type of thing and I swear more often using it.

        the fact that people are saying "oh my goodness with no censors people are gonna start swearing all the time!!!" makes me slap my head. I'm pretty sure a lot of the people here are more mature than you give them credit for and won't do that, and if they do, then infract them or something, idk. really a lot of the "issues" people would have with a toggle-able censor are really preposterous. and like I said, if they're being abused, then just remove the ability to toggle them, and that's that. it's truly not a very difficult thing to enforce anyway.
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        Old July 27th, 2014 (6:33 AM).
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        I think (not speaking for Dipu here) he was talking about the influence of it actually being there. If someone swears in IRC a few people will see it, then it'll scroll into oblivion - it's a passing thing and doesn't really become noticeable if people do it rarely anyway. In a forum post, they stick around, more people see it and often people will reply to swearing with more swearing, in my experience.

        I worry like places like General Chat/D&D would see a sharp incline of swearing, there are plenty of members who swear plenty with the filter. I don't think everyone will start swearing more ~just because~ but it might be a general trend. I really don't feel it's necessary ><. Fighting for swearing would be like fighting for a penis symbol or something - there are plenty of other words to get your feelings across with, so why not just leave the 'bad' ones be censored?

        :)
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        Old July 27th, 2014 (6:35 AM).
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        Well, at least the filter on PC isn't nearly as bad as it is in the actual games. :P

        If every curse word would be censored differently, someone could write a browser plugin that decensores those words on client side, while on server side it would still stay censored.
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        Old July 27th, 2014 (6:42 AM).
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        I found out just yesterday; c h i n k is censored by the filters. Yes; because it's a racial slur - but it can also be used for either an onomatopoeia, or to describe a flaw or hitch in something. Such as; "Aggron's armor is impenetrable - its only ♥♥♥♥♥ is just about any ground our fighting type attack."

        I get why it's censored, kinda. But it's a shame
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          #21    
        Old July 27th, 2014 (6:53 AM).
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Magic View Post
        I think (not speaking for Dipu here) he was talking about the influence of it actually being there. If someone swears in IRC a few people will see it, then it'll scroll into oblivion - it's a passing thing and doesn't really become noticeable if people do it rarely anyway. In a forum post, they stick around, more people see it and often people will reply to swearing with more swearing, in my experience.

        I worry like places like General Chat/D&D would see a sharp incline of swearing, there are plenty of members who swear plenty with the filter. I don't think everyone will start swearing more ~just because~ but it might be a general trend. I really don't feel it's necessary ><. Fighting for swearing would be like fighting for a penis symbol or something - there are plenty of other words to get your feelings across with, so why not just leave the 'bad' ones be censored?

        :)
        it's nothing like fighting for a "penis symbol" because I can't think of any possible scenario in which putting a dick in your post would enhance it in any way. sometimes, swearing is the only way to get your point across; sometimes, it's necessary. like, something can be really good, or it can be really ♥♥♥♥ing good, and I feel like there is a difference and it's an embellishment that's sorely missed with these mandatory censors. of course, that's a bit of a silly example, but I do hope you see where I'm coming from.

        people might start swearing a bit more because, well, duh, but I really, honestly, truly don't think it will be toxic to the community in the slightest. I've noticed that threads like these will normally go on for a little while and then nothing will actually happen, the idea won't even be declined, it just kinda lingers in the air for a couple days then peters out, but I sincerely hope that dosen't happen in this thread. if I'm beating a dead horse here, tell me right now so all my efforts aren't for naught.
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        Old July 27th, 2014 (8:55 AM).
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        I think this is a logical suggestion. Cursing is pretty much allowed here, as long as you aren't doing it to harm someone, and you don't bypass the censor when you do it. The censor is there to protect the people who find profanity to be offensive. There are people who don't need that barrier there because they don't find it offensive. They'll still curse. I see people cursing pretty regularly here. Having the option to remove that protection for those who don't need it there really isn't that big of a deal. It's not like we're removing the censor entirely. We're only allowing it to be removed by those who wish to remove it, and take the time to do so.

        I don't think removing the censor is going to cause people to start sprouting curse words for no reason. People don't just go on here and start cursing for no apparent reason. They only really use it to better express excitement, frustration, and so forth. You can argue that they don't need to be using curse words in the first place, but that's really not the point because no matter how much you make that argument, people will continue to use them for those reasons. And I don't think removing the censor for those folk who don't need it is going to start causing problems between those folk. If so, they know the rules. And they know the consequences of breaking the rules.

        We have infractions and disciplinary actions for a reason, you know.

        This is a really nice community. We have our bad apples, and we all have our bad days, but for the most part, I think the memberbase as a whole can handle the option of choosing not to have curse words censored without losing our cool and acting a fool. Honestly, I think the staff should start publicly displaying some faith in the community. I know, I'm really one to talk, right? But for real. Put a little faith in your members to not act like animals when the overwhelming majority of the members don't really have a problem or history of doing so in the first place.
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        Old July 27th, 2014 (9:04 AM).
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        We've talked about an age-related opt of of the censor, like, if you're an older member over the age of 17-18, then you could toggle the censor off. But anyone else below the age cutoff would still be bound to the censor and any swear words would still come up filtered on their end. I actually really like that idea and it would be great to have that implemented, although I'm not sure how feasible that would be - sounds more like a custom bit of code we'd have to whip up, more so than a VB plugin or something like that.
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        Old July 27th, 2014 (9:10 AM).
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        Quote:
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        We've talked about an age-related opt of of the censor, like, if you're an older member over the age of 17-18, then you could toggle the censor off. But anyone else below the age cutoff would still be bound to the censor and any swear words would still come up filtered on their end. I actually really like that idea and it would be great to have that implemented, although I'm not sure how feasible that would be - sounds more like a custom bit of code we'd have to whip up, more so than a VB plugin or something like that.
        17-18? what? why not, like, 14-15? I'm 16 and swearing means absolutely nothing to me and hasn't since I was like 11; 17-18 seems incredibly excessive, and I know that I'm not the exception, but more or less the rule. I'd like that idea if the age was lowered a bit.
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        Old July 27th, 2014 (9:18 AM).
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        I personally don't like the idea of rules because it assumes that we aren't nice people without them and we only act the way we do because of them - it strips us of our humanity, in a way. It's not like offenders can't be disciplined if censors were removed. Excessive swearing is a no-no, censor or not, and I don't see how what's being advocated in this thread would change that in any way. I also don't see why an age limit has to be enforced on the off-switch. If you're literate enough to use the internet, then you're literate enough to know what such a toggle would do.

        I could go on about how I oppose excessive rules in principle, how it breeds an attitude of dependence on them and unnecessary cynicism towards the community but meh that's just what I think.

        And c h i n k really shouldn't be censored.
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