God or Human?

Started by Splash July 31st, 2014 2:48 AM
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Posted November 28th, 2014
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I guess religiously he'd be a demigod. Born of god and human so..
Realistically Jesus was human. I personally don't believe Jesus had any fancy superpowers but that he was a vastly generous and heretical man. Mortal as any of us, maybe he was a slippery fellow too to convince the world he had died only to remerge several days later.

Lusus

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Some catholics told me he is a god, other catholics told me he is a human. I even had 1 catholic tell me that he was a god and then few months later he told me he was a human.

The whole thing is confusing, but the most popular belief is that he is a human and that he is god's soon.

The Serious Table

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As a spectating agnostic, I think Jesus is a God. Christians have told me that there's God the father, God the Son and the Holy Spirit, all which are the holy trinity. I'd guess that if you're a part of the holy three, you must be a God amongst other Gods who have the same Godly status as each other. Therefor Jesus is a God.. I'd guess.

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Some catholics told me he is a god, other catholics told me he is a human. I even had 1 catholic tell me that he was a god and then few months later he told me he was a human.

The whole thing is confusing, but the most popular belief is that he is a human and that he is god's soon.
The official Catholic theology is that he is both God and human at the same time. The Trinity is supposed to be 3 persons within one God, all the same person but separate at the same time. It's intentionally confusing because it's meant to be seen as the "divine mystery" and proof that God is beyond the comprehension of humans. You know:

God from God, light from light, true God from true God,
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Well, when I ate part of him he tasted more like saltines and wine rather than a human or a god.
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He was a normal human being, nothing like Superman or Hercules and whatnot.
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Jesus probably existed, but he didn't do any of the miraculous horse♥♥♥♥ the bible says he did.
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Some of you seem a little confused. Jesus was Gods son, but Jesus is still part of the Trinity. They are one God made of Jesus, God the Father, and the Holy Spirit. Jesus was 100% God and 100% human. Not 50% and 50%. He must have been this way to save everyone from our sins. Jesus wasn't the result of God having you-know-what with Mary (younger children may be on the websit). Mary was conceived by the Holy Spirit not physically (I don't know how God did it, all I know it was that he had you-know-what with her. Remember: Jesus sent down from Heaven and was always existent, just not as a human yet. I hope that clears stuff up for you guys.
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The Void

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As a Catholic, I believe in the hypostatic and dyophysitic union of Jesus as God and human at the same time.

But since Christians differ in beliefs, allow me to explain:

Both Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Christians believe that Christ had two inseparable natures: divine and human. The correct terminology for this is "hypostatic union", and was adopted by the First Council of Ephesus and then reiterated by the Council of Chalcedon.

The Oriental Orthodox, on the other hand, rejected the Council of Chalcedon in favor of miaphytism (belief in the union of both natures without separation), while the Assyrians also schismed with the Church, and went for monophytism (one nature of a synthesis of divine and human).

Mainstream Protestants generally believe that he was God and human, but this still varies from denomination to denomination since there are like, 20000 different branches of Protestantism.

Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus was purely human with extraordinary powers.

Tek

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Can't... not... Chime in.

I hold it to be true that Jesus was fully human and fully divine. This is unavoidable, as I also hold it to be true that we are all divine beings on a human journey. It seems quite clear to me that the entire process of evolution, from geosphere to biosphere to noosphere to theosphere, is simply the Divine awakening to itself. The Mystery - Spirit - is the Ground, Process, and Goal, unfolding moment to moment.


Fundamentally, the only difference between men like Jesus or Buddha and most of us is that they consciously manifested their divine nature.

There are a number of New Testament scriptures that point to this, incidentally, even despite the sanitization performed on the document by the early Church. It's interesting to note that Indian people generally would not bat an eye at this assertion of man's innate divinity, but many other Christians have violent negative reactions. Or deep concern at my obvious deception by Satan.
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Jesus, if he ever did indeed exists, and I have serious doubts about that (not even his supposed day of birth make sense if people did any real research on it), if born today and gathered a flock of people to him just as the Jesus in the bible supposedly did, would be called a cult leader and would quickly find himself either in prison, dead from the gun of a federal agent, dead from a ritualistic suicide (along with many of his followers), or locked away in a padded room in insane asylum somewhere.
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Tek

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Jesus, if he ever did indeed exists, and I have serious doubts about that (not even his supposed day of birth make sense if people did any real research on it), if born today and gathered a flock of people to him just as the Jesus in the bible supposedly did, would be called a cult leader and would quickly find himself either in prison, dead from the gun of a federal agent, dead from a ritualistic suicide (along with many of his followers), or locked away in a padded room in insane asylum somewhere.
That is basically what happened back then, too, if we assume the story to be more or less accurate. Jesus declared himself King of the Jews. Everyone assumed he would be leading a revolution against the Romans. And when he did not, the Jewish people turned him over to the Romans, and left him to die and rot.

Besides that, is your argument that Jesus would break the status quo, therefore he is insane or something? Because it seems to me that the average person is quite sick of the status quo, and would like very much to see change.

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Jesus, if he ever did indeed exists, and I have serious doubts about that (not even his supposed day of birth make sense if people did any real research on it), if born today and gathered a flock of people to him just as the Jesus in the bible supposedly did, would be called a cult leader and would quickly find himself either in prison, dead from the gun of a federal agent, dead from a ritualistic suicide (along with many of his followers), or locked away in a padded room in insane asylum somewhere.
Like Tek mentioned, that's pretty much how the Bible puts it.

Because Jesus had already attracted quite a crowd of followers, the Jewish high priests wanted to have Jesus killed for blasphemy. However, they could not kill him themselves because it was Passover, and they did not want any blood to be shed at that time. So they handed him over to King Herod, who thought he was just some insane cult leader, and sent him away to Pilate.

The highest form of Roman punishment at the time was crucifixion, and so it only made sense for the high priests to demand for Jesus to be crucified.

As for his birthday, you're completely right that it isn't December 25. In fact, no one is truly sure of the exact date and month of his birth (although the year is certain). The Western Church under Constantine assimilated Christmas into December 25 in order to compete with the festival of the Roman sun god.
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NyxShooter

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Hmm. This is an intresting question which I haven't debated about in a long time. The prospect of Jesus being a god is not very farfetched, being the supposed son of god but was born to the Virgin Mary. Philosophy entitles whether one is a man or a god depending on their actions rather than their supposed birth-right.

No man can self-title himself as a god, if he does no one will believe him. Back onto the topic of Jesus, he has done quite benevolent deeds according to the bible, however there is no true evidence of him actually doing these things. The safest thing to assume is that Jesus was a man, and not a god.

Say you're a rich man, you have a son. You gained your money and everything entitled to you through hardwork and academics. Your son, being spoiled, has no intrest in academics and is confident his father can carry him through the hard-ships of life. The father dies, not entitling anything to his son. His son is broke. You're entitlment does not secure you a position of x. Only you can put yourself in said position.
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Megan

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Jesus could be both and neither of them at the same time.

Take a random guy, give him a couple of people who like him a little bit too much, add another person, who envys him and soon they come up with the idea of a person who is the son of god. So while the person is still the same, more and more people start believing that he's some savior who can turn water into win; even this random guy himself could start believing that.

And believe is, were everything starts.
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Aisu

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These complicated answers gave me a headache, holy crap. Anyhow I believe that Jesus is man and not man as well. He was born of two regular humans yet our run-of-the-mill average male cannot rise from the dead. So yeah, man and divine.

moon

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I guess religiously he'd be a demigod. Born of god and human so..
Realistically Jesus was human. I personally don't believe Jesus had any fancy superpowers but that he was a vastly generous and heretical man. Mortal as any of us, maybe he was a slippery fellow too to convince the world he had died only to remerge several days later.
This is mainly my belief as well. Nothing I have seen in the world has ever convinced me that it's possible for a man to do what the book called the Bible claims that Jesus did. I won't say he didn't exist at all though, it's been proven from old records that a man called Jesus of Nazareth lived, no?

Well, when I ate part of him he tasted more like saltines and wine rather than a human or a god.
I have experienced this as well 8)

It is safe to assume that he existed and was most certainly human. Anything beyond that, and it becomes much less certain.
Of course it becomes uncertain; the main question is if you want to believe what the book and religions say or if you don't.

Can't... not... Chime in.

I hold it to be true that Jesus was fully human and fully divine. This is unavoidable, as I also hold it to be true that we are all divine beings on a human journey. It seems quite clear to me that the entire process of evolution, from geosphere to biosphere to noosphere to theosphere, is simply the Divine awakening to itself. The Mystery - Spirit - is the Ground, Process, and Goal, unfolding moment to moment.

Fundamentally, the only difference between men like Jesus or Buddha and most of us is that they consciously manifested their divine nature.
Wow, I do like what you're saying. What I do believe is that we are more than just flesh and brainwaves, so every human being should have a divine side. It's still hard to believe if you have a scientific brain and have been brought up in a secular country with no state religion, but if there's anything I want to believe, it would be something like this. Jesus might have been able to manifest some part of himself that most people don't.

These complicated answers gave me a headache, holy crap. Anyhow I believe that Jesus is man and not man as well. He was born of two regular humans yet our run-of-the-mill average male cannot rise from the dead. So yeah, man and divine.
That is, of course, if you want to believe that he actually rose from the dead. This part of the story is a bit too far-fetched and I've been wondering what possible explanations there could be for people seeing him after his presumed death. Perhaps he faked it. Perhaps some part of him actually lingered on our Earth and could interact with the disciples and other people. Or perhaps God actually revived him.

If I'm going to answer the original topic though, putting my skeptical thoughts aside and go by what I've learned growing up, I'd say Jesus is a part of God himself just as the holy spirit is. They are one but in three forms, and as Jesus is human, he has a physical brain and a bit of personality of his own. So he was both a man and divine. That's how I've understood the "stories" at least.
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I have a hard time believing anything the bible has written down. The bible is just a collection of fanciful tales full of sex, debauchery, war, death, impossible ordeals, mythical creatures, and massive plot-holes; so, pretty much the basic formula for any popular teen novel these days.

Besides the fact that the bible is hard to consider factual in any way, it's not even written firsthand. The books held inside were written decades, perhaps even centuries later. Over time, rumors, and embellished hear-say is form fitted to entertain the reader. It is a fantasy book, and nothing more. I doubt Jesus truly existed in the way the bible portrays him. I find the whole mess the equivalent of Mel Gibson riding up and down the rank and file of his Scotsman, they claim that William Wallace is ten feet tall, laser beams from his eyes, and lightning shoots out his arse. ridiculous, right?

Nothing more than the overactive imaginations of old men sitting in caves.

So no, Jesus was most certainly not, a god. Nor do I find credibility that he actually existed in the first place.

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I'm not religious, so I don't know how good my output is, but in a strictly speaking personal sense, I view Jesus as a very influential human.

In a religious sense, I would assume that Jesus contained both traits of a human and divinity.
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Honestly, you'd be hard-pressed to find a historical (as in, outside of the bible) mention of Jesus ANYWHERE around his supposed lifespan. The 1st century was not an era where no history was written down. In fact, we have the work of contemporary writers and historians that describe events all throughout the era that Jesus supposedly lived. Yet, none of these contemporary historians give one mention to Jesus, or a supposed Messiah. (Josephus, a Romano-Jewish scholar who recorded Jewish history in the 1st century would certainly have wrote about Jesus, or the cult developing around such a figure, but the one page that mentions a messiah is widely regarded to be a fake, forged by early church leaders a few centuries later.)

Furthermore, the Romans kept records of official business, such as state executions. The crucifixion of an anarchist leader would've certainly made a list SOMEWHERE.

The bible itself leads credence to the fact that the entirety of the New Testament was fiction. First of all, the first complete writings of the gospels appeared in the 4th century. The early church decided on the four we now know as canonical, as numerous other gospels existed. (There were as many gospels as there were early christian cults.) It's generally agreed that the gospels were rewritten several times before then (and transcribed, which is not error-free, countless more times), which could have entirely changed the meaning of certain passages. The gospels themselves are not written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. They were written after Jesus and his apostles had died, and then attributed to those authors. The earliest dates for their writing start at Mark's which was completed around the Fall of Jerusalem, in the late 60s CE-early 70s CE. Mark is widely agreed to have been written first, but the text was completed years after the last apostles would have died; at around the end of the first century. The Jews were also involved in a long and bloody conflict at this time, and there's no doubt that by the time Mark was completed, most if not all of the eyewitnesses of Jesus' supposed acts would've died of natural causes (most) or by Roman sword (some). This rules it out, and by proxy the later gospels too, as a primary source for the Jesus tale. Another nail in the coffin (or cross) is the simple fact that Mark has the geography of Judea completely wrong. Mark references towns in the wrong places; has Jesus and Friends make direct trips that, if following the directions given by Mark's gospel, would have made them do numerous, ridiculous backtracking and add countless days onto their supposed journey. It's clear just by reading the text that none of the authors who contributed to the Mark gospel were from Jesus' neck of the woods. They are so unfamiliar with the terrain that it borders on insanity.

Matthew and Luke were written around the same time, and are based on Mark and another source document commonly dubbed as "Q", of which none survives to the present day. They fix Mark's flagrant abuse of geography, but clock in at about 80-100 CE, which remove them even further from Jesus' supposed life and death.

John was the last gospel written, and Jesus' attitude and personality is noticeably changed in this one. John's gospel is probably the one that contains the most supernatural elements, and is widely discredited for being written by multiple authors in stages, and clocking in almost 100 years after Jesus' supposed death.

If that hasn't given you some food for thought about the authenticity of the whole tale, why not chew on some big contradictions between the gospels? The sentences below are shamelessly copy-pasted from another source, as I can't be arsed to retype my notes.

How many generations were there between Abraham to David? Matthew 1:17 lists fourteen generations. Matthew 1:2 lists thirteen generations.
Who was the father of Joseph? Matthew 1:16 The father of Joseph was Jacob. Luke 3 :23 The father of Joseph was Heli.
Matthew 2:15, 19 & 21-23 The infant Christ was taken into Egypt. Luke 2:22 & 39 The infant Christ was NOT taken to Egypt.
When was Christ crucified? Mark 15:25 "And it was the third hour and they crucified him." John 19:14-15 "And it was the preparation of the Passover, and about the sixth hour; and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your king…Shall I crucify your king?" John 19:14-15.
Did Judas keep the gold he got for handing over Jesus, buy a field, and die (by falling and having his bowels burst out) in it as in Acts 1:18? Or did Judas throw the gold away and hang himself as in Matthew 27:5?

Would contemporary authors, eye-witnesses, or the people experiencing the events in Jesus' life directly have made these sorts of mistakes? Perhaps one could dismiss the lineage errors, but the hour and day in which one's messiah is crucified seems difficult to mess up if one was actually there. These are not the only internal inconsistencies found in the text, by the way. A careful reading of the New Testament would reveal dozens more.

It is my researched opinion that Jesus was not human, nor was he a god. There's no historical evidence that Jesus existed at all.

Livewire

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Assuming he is an actual historical figure - a man who spearheaded a radical off-shoot sect of Judaism that threatened social order and the "establishment" and subsequently died for it, and became a messianic figure because the new fledgling religion needed him to be so, to justify its existence and message. And subsequent generations of followers filled in the gaps at the Council of Nicaea and during the writing of the gospels in the second, third and fourth centuries C.E.

Awfully convenient of a brand new radical religion, trying to win over converts, that its chief prophet just happens to also be the son of god and this faith happens to be the "true" faith of the one true God. Look at it through the lens of a purely social/political movement, and things will begin to make sense and you'll see it for what it really is - Constantine's method of controlling his vast empire with a common, universal faith to unite his subjects under.

CelticsPhan

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Jesus was absolutely human, but he could either be God's only Son, or even a metaphorical figure. Since Jesus was and is such a role model to us humans, he could very well be just a character from an egregious story.

The fact that he was divine could've been added on by whomever this part of the New Testament was written so that people could conclude his character. I'm a Catholic Christian and the rest, so my opinion on the matter is obvious. If the Bible is truly a test of belief for humans, then Jesus is truly God's Son, or at the least a prophet of God.

I just watched the Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya (anime with a suggested god as a main character), and that makes me think: wouldn't it be better if Jesus really was a God after all? It gives me a lot to look forward to and figure out when it's time for my life to end.

The answers here don't surprise me; there isn't a lot of proof or evidence in this world that suggests Jesus' divinity or even his existence. And if the world universally agreed or somehow figured out Jesus, we'd neglect religion as a whole and continue on with our short mortal lives.
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