God or Human? Page 3

Started by Splash July 31st, 2014 2:48 AM
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elnoor

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Seen February 8th, 2015
Posted September 19th, 2014
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Jesus claims to be the son of god, yes. Multiple times. He does not claim to be god, for god is a separate entity.

The Trinity is not mentioned anywhere in the Bible.

The Trinity is considered on of the Catholicism's sacred mysteries, basically, there is no explanation of it. It is something that is meant to be a faith based personal belief alone. There are many who have some very complicated explanations of it. If you want, I suggest reading this essay from Stanford.

The Trinity, in theological terms, is a hypostases. Which appears in quite a few religions throughout history.

Believers would say it is vague because it is meant to be built on faith, not logic. You are just, well, you're just supposed to believe and not ask questions.
Ok I understand in many religions some things you just have to believe in as it is part of believing in the unseen or unknown but don't you think it should at least be mentioned in the bible even if not explained. Doing my research it is believed that some priests came up with the trinity and it was never really taught or mentioned by Jesus. Who was Jesus specifically sent to? meaning was he sent to a specific time and people ( like Moses and those before him). The thing that I really never understood is historically speaking that is, it seems he was sent specifically to the children of Israel as he was from amongst them.

Phantom

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Posted September 18th, 2017
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Ok I understand in many religions some things you just have to believe in as it is part of believing in the unseen or unknown but don't you think it should at least be mentioned in the bible even if not explained. Doing my research it is believed that some priests came up with the trinity and it was never really taught or mentioned by Jesus. Who was Jesus specifically sent to? meaning was he sent to a specific time and people ( like Moses and those before him). The thing that I really never understood is historically speaking that is, it seems he was sent specifically to the children of Israel as he was from amongst them.
Taken from Matthew 15: 21-28 NIV

Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.”

Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.”

He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.

He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”

“Yes it is, Lord,” she said. “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.”

Then Jesus said to her, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed at that moment.

elnoor

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villege hidden in the leaf
Seen February 8th, 2015
Posted September 19th, 2014
143 posts
8.8 Years
Taken from Matthew 15: 21-28 NIV
Ok if he Jesus was sent to the people of Isreal at that time how can he possibly be proclaimed as God or son of God for the entire world. Should it not be proclaimed that he came to the entire mankind not just a specific people from a certain part of the world. Does that make sense or not? The way it seems is he is a prophet just like the ones before him who we're sent to their people. Another thing I don't understand is he is from the children of Isreal so obviously the original text was in that language making all the bibles just translations without the original to compare to. A lot of things are lost in translation is it not possible people can mis understand the context of text because there does seem to be a lot of contradictions. The bible should be the word of God and that's it, it does not need authors and people adding and taking out what they please in a way would that not go agianst the original message. How can I for certain know this is the truth if it is mentioned clearly that the bible was written by people who never even met him. This religion is the largest in the world yet what is the number of Jewish people who believe in him if he was sent to them? And for those who don't believe do they just believe in the creator without a son?

AFeralFurry

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Seen November 29th, 2014
Posted September 18th, 2014
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Coming from a non-religious person, I think he was human. An awesome as hell human that did the best he could to make the world a better place, in his mind, and try to help people, but a human nonetheless.
I'm a bisexual furry, and I'm proud of it!

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In the Bible it talks about how Jesus was declared to be God's Son, but also a human representation of God Himself. So although people may believe that makes him a god or God. It is more of a representation of Him in human form (at least that's what I believe). Meaning that he is as close to being God as a human will ever achieve.

Phantom

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Age 32
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Minnesota
Seen September 18th, 2017
Posted September 18th, 2017
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Ok if he Jesus was sent to the people of Isreal at that time how can he possibly be proclaimed as God or son of God for the entire world. Should it not be proclaimed that he came to the entire mankind not just a specific people from a certain part of the world. Does that make sense or not? The way it seems is he is a prophet just like the ones before him who we're sent to their people. Another thing I don't understand is he is from the children of Isreal so obviously the original text was in that language making all the bibles just translations without the original to compare to. A lot of things are lost in translation is it not possible people can mis understand the context of text because there does seem to be a lot of contradictions. The bible should be the word of God and that's it, it does not need authors and people adding and taking out what they please in a way would that not go agianst the original message. How can I for certain know this is the truth if it is mentioned clearly that the bible was written by people who never even met him. This religion is the largest in the world yet what is the number of Jewish people who believe in him if he was sent to them? And for those who don't believe do they just believe in the creator without a son?

The enter key says, "Hello." It misses you. :P

Well, that's the thing, Jewish people don't believe in him? At least not the son of god part. That's, you know, part of being Jewish.

*note I do not argue for religion, see my sig. *points*

Livewire

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Posted August 2nd, 2019
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If you want the Christian answer, it's far less complicated than you all are making it. He is a God in a Human body. You lot are assuming to be human you cannot be god, and vice versa.
Well that's because those are mutually exclusive things; you cannot be both at the same time, biologically speaking. Jesus, along with the other demigod/half-god archetypes you see in mythology are conveniently free from this conundrum.

AxeBeard McBeardAxe

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Posted October 24th, 2014
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Well that's because those are mutually exclusive things; you cannot be both at the same time, biologically speaking. Jesus, along with the other demigod/half-god archetypes you see in mythology are conveniently free from this conundrum.
"Biologically speaking"? That statement makes no sense in this context. Regardless, and again this is a Christian viewpoint, Jesus is the son of God, and yet is God. Though these are mutually exclusive things, to be all human and yet all God, Jesus was. Just like the trinity, where God is all of all three persons of the trinity. Though it makes (to us) no sense, Christianity believes it is so, and can be so because God is above what our human minds understand and what are sinful fallen world dictates to be possible.

Livewire

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Posted August 2nd, 2019
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"Biologically speaking"? That statement makes no sense in this context. Regardless, and again this is a Christian viewpoint, Jesus is the son of God, and yet is God. Though these are mutually exclusive things, to be all human and yet all God, Jesus was. Just like the trinity, where God is all of all three persons of the trinity. Though it makes (to us) no sense, Christianity believes it is so, and can be so because God is above what our human minds understand and what are sinful fallen world dictates to be possible.
A flesh and bone, biological human being cannot be a deity in the sense that a deity is well, a deity. God's don't age, get cancer, and die. In most religions and mythos, they tend to be above human failings and aren't bound by the rules of biology. (Organisms are created, mature, decline and die, hopefully after reproducing and spreading their genetic codes, etc.)

Though these are mutually exclusive things, to be all human and yet all God, Jesus was.
Two events are mutually exclusive if they cannot occur at the same time. An example is tossing a coin once, which can result in either heads or tails, but not both.
Can't be simultaneously both and neither at the same time. In reality, that is. Belief systems tend to sidestep that fact, because they're beliefs and you can believe whatever you want, regardless of its veracity.

AxeBeard McBeardAxe

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A flesh and bone, biological human being cannot be a deity in the sense that a deity is well, a deity. God's don't age, get cancer, and die. In most religions and mythos, they tend to be above human failings and aren't bound by the rules of biology. (Organisms are created, mature, decline and die, hopefully after reproducing and spreading their genetic codes, etc.)





Can't be simultaneously both and neither at the same time. In reality, that is. Belief systems tend to sidestep that fact, because they're beliefs and you can believe whatever you want, regardless of its veracity.
I wouldn't call it sidestepping, as that implies ignoring the fact when it is indeed addressed. Also, just because Gods tend not to be affected by biological phenomena doesn't make them, by definition, UNABLE to be under such effects, as well as the fact that giving such definitions is a very "one size fits all" assumption to make when what is true of one god doesn't have to be (an often isn't) true of another. Anyways, you refer to humans as only a body. Our BODIES age, get cancer, and die. But not necessarily ourselves. Note, however, I say necessarily. No side of this giant and complex argument can provide anything to verify it's beliefs in a way that can not be reasonably argued against. Discussion on it is fine, an interesting way to pass time. Arguing over it is absurd, and often ends with everyone at each others throats. Ultimately it's easier to just say "**** it, you lot believe what you want, I don't care!" and be done with it.

On a side note I for some reason got 5 notifications all telling me you replied to me. How disappointing, I thought I was popular, lol.

Tek

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If you want the Christian answer, it's far less complicated than you all are making it. He is a God in a Human body. You lot are assuming to be human you cannot be god, and vice versa.

And he is held to be the only one who is both human and divine. That's the traditional doctrine, anyway. Which - if you have a mythic-membership/conformist worldview - is held as true because it is sanctioned by authority figures within the church. Or as Phantom said, it's:

...built on faith, not logic. You are just, well, you're just supposed to believe and not ask questions.
Yet, as a Christian, I feel the imperative to follow Jesus' example. The Biblical story shows Jesus rejecting the parts of his Jewish tradition that were outdated or inadequate, and incorporating the better parts of the tradition into a new understanding (See Matthew chapter five; "You have heard it said... but I say to you...").




The Biblical stories were composed by people coming primarily from a Red-warrior worldview and an Amber-mythic worldview. However, modern humanity is primarily Orange-rational and Green-pluralistic. Therefore, it is only appropriate to take a rational and post-rational (pluralistic) approach to Christianity.


I don't really get upset hold a grudge when people reject the Bible on logical grounds; this represents a leap forward in human understanding. As we move forward even farther, we can begin to appreciate the Bible as a useful tool for understanding human cognitive evolution.


However, I vehemently reject the notion that religion, of all the world's institutions, is fundamentally unable to move upwards through the stages of growth. Religious and non-religious folk alike mistake the Amber level of spirituality for the entire spiritual line of development.




In keeping with this, I believe - based on my own spiritual inquiry and transpersonal experiences, and the confirmation of those who have taken up the same methods of introspection - that we are all spiritual beings on a human journey. I believe, as Jesus did, that we are all gods:


"(Jesus said,) I and the Father are one.
The Jews took up stones again to stone him.
Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from the Father; for which of these do you stone me?
The Jews answered him, For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy; and because thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, 'I said, ye are gods?'"
John 10:30 - 10:34


Jesus claims to be the son of god, yes. Multiple times. He does not claim to be god, for god is a separate entity.

See above passage; Jesus' answer only makes sense if he is rebutting their accusation by claiming that all men are gods.




And again, from the gospel of John:


"They are not of the world even as I am not of the world.
Sanctify them in the truth: thy Word is the truth.
As though didst send me into the world, even so I sent them into the world.
And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they themselves may also be sanctified in truth.
Neither for these only do I pray, but for them also that believe in me through their word;
that they may all be one; even as thou Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us: that the world may believe that thou didst send me.
And the glory which thou hast given me I have given unto them; that they may be one, even as we are one;
I in them, and thou in me, that they may be perfected into one; that the world may know that thou didst send me, and lovedst them, even as thou lovedst me."


John 10:16 -10:23


Sorry for the long quotation, but I want to give some context to the statement "that they may be one as I and the Father are one. The Amber lens sees the above passage as an imperative to spread the message of the Bible, and an assertion that we are to "place our faith in Christ", which basically means to accept that we are guilty and Jesus took our punishment for us.


But I reject the guilt-trip. I understand the above passage to be Jesus' recognition that every human being has the capacity to be a Christ. Furthermore, it is quite clear to me that the divine Word manifests differently in the various cultures of the earth, and that all spiritual paths are valid.






A flesh and bone, biological human being cannot be a deity in the sense that a deity is well, a deity. God's don't age, get cancer, and die. In most religions and mythos, they tend to be above human failings and aren't bound by the rules of biology. (Organisms are created, mature, decline and die, hopefully after reproducing and spreading their genetic codes, etc.)

Can't be simultaneously both and neither at the same time. In reality, that is. Belief systems tend to sidestep that fact, because they're beliefs and you can believe whatever you want, regardless of its veracity.

This is true if you define a 'divine being' as some sort of superhuman hero with magical powers, which is certainly a common understanding. However, when you understand the Divine to be the Ground of Being, the Empty space from which all forms issue forth moment-to-moment, then it is quite clear that we are all "participants in the divine nature."

Black-Tigress

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Is Jesus a God or a Human? Let me see your ideas
Jesus was a human who was brought to Earth by the spirit of God and through Mary.

The body of a human, with the spirit and supernaturalism of God.

At least that's what I believe from what I've read, you know.
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