RMT Please rate my "Power of the Grace" team

Started by TriforceCourage September 8th, 2014 7:47 PM
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  • 4 replies

TriforceCourage

Male
Pokemon Day Care
Seen November 26th, 2014
Posted November 26th, 2014
59 posts
8.7 Years
Okay so this team is based off of using Serene Grace to boost effect likeliness. This is for Rating Doubles so i can use Jirachi.
Im using 3 different Serene Grace pokes:

Togekiss @ Life Orb
Ability: Serene Grace
- Air Slash
- Thunder Wave
- Roost
- Dazzling Gleam
Nature: Modest
Evs 252 SpA/252 Sp/4 Hp
This is my sweeper set. I have 2 other bulky Serene Grace pokes so i needed a sweeper.

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Serene Grace
-Soft Boiled
-Seismic Toss
-Stealth Rock
-Thunder Wave/Toxic
Nature: Bold
Evs 252 Def/252 SpD/4 Hp

Bulky poke #1 chose this cause this is dependant on keeping Serene Grace on the field and who better but Chansey on steroids?

Dunsparce @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
-Glare
-Rock Slide
-Headbutt
-Roost
Nature: Careful
Evs 252 Def/252 Hp/4 SpD

Bulky poke #2 again same concept as Chansey but more capable of taking out pokes whole staying in there. I chose to invest in Defense more cause of Fighing weakness such as Meinshao and MegaBlaziken, also i can take a few hits from Garchomp as well. Now onto the non serene gracers

Honchkrow @ Scope Lens
Ability: Super Luck
-Sucker Punch
-Foul Play
-Brave Bird
-Steel Wing/Night Slash
Nature: Adamant
Evs 252 Atk/252 Sp/4 Hp

Gotta love the Lucky Scopes Krow, high crit ratio and nice movesets, only thing is i cant decide weather or not to keep steel wing or night slash, night slash is a guarantee crit with serene grace, scopes, and Super luck, and it has field covrage but i already have 2 other dark type moves so not sure, what do you think?

Nidoking @ Choice Band
Ability: Poison Point
-Earthquake
-Poison Jab
-Megahorn
-Stone Edge
Nature: Adamant
Evs 252 Atk/252 Sp/4 Hp

Earthquake field coverage STAB, Poison Jab STAB chance to poison and boosted by seren grace, Stone Edge high crit and chance boosted by serene grace and Megahorn for high damage.
Lastly....

Aggron @ Aggronite
Ability: Sturdy
-Earthquake
-Thunder Wave
-Stone Edge
-Iron Head
Nature: Impish
Evs 252 SpD/252 Hp/4 Def

Earthquake field coverage, Thunder wave to slow em down, iron head to para flinch and STAB, and Stone Edge high crit chance boosted by Serene Grace and STAB. Hes a big metal giant and can handle pretty much anything.

One question though, does anyone know if Super Luck ability covers the whole field or if it just works on Honchkrow? Other then that rate and comment on my team let me know what you think.
Dangerous knowledge is still knowledge and therefore useful.

August 29th 2014: Completed XY National Pokedex. Own all 719 Pokemon.

I used to be an adventurer like you until I took an Ice Spike to the face

Currently On break from XY and ORAS until i can buy a new 3ds I dont have a Friend Code anymore, so please refrain from asking about it. Thanks.

PlatinumDude

Nyeh?

Age 29
Male
Canada
Seen July 31st, 2020
Posted May 30th, 2020
12,958 posts
12.7 Years
In doubles, Protect is a staple because it lets you do things like scout for attacks or give a partner time to take out an opponent. Doubles formats are different from singles formats, and the team you're using appears to be geared for Singles. Some moves, like Stealth Rock, are unsuitable for doubles teams.

The doubles environment is too fast-paced for Togekiss to Roost up, so Protect should be in the last slot. Life Orb also comprises its bulk, so consider giving it Leftovers or Sitrus Berry.

Natural Cure is the preferred ability on Chansey, as your set currently has no moves to take advantage of Serene Grace whatsoever. Just because something has Serene Grace doesn't mean it should use it. Entry hazards aren't that useful in doubles, since you rarely switch in that environment. Instead of Stealth Rock, you can use Heal Pulse to heal a teammate.

Honchkrow has no use for Foul Play, as its Attack is rather good enough to let it deal damage on its own:
-Sucker Punch
-Brave Bird
-Night Slash/Superpower/Tailwind
-Protect
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk/4 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Dread Plate/Black Glasses/Charti Berry/Wacan Berry/Sitrus Berry

Special Nidoking is better than physical Nidoking because virtually all of Nidoking's special moves benefit from Sheer Force, which is the very ability that made Nidoking viable in the first place. Physical Nidoking only has Poison Jab, Rock Slide and the elemental punches as Sheer Force-compatible moves, but they're weaker than Earth Power, Sludge Bomb/Wave and Ice Beam/Thunderbolt/Flamethrower. Also, a Sheer Force-boosted Earth Power outdamages Earthquake. Poison Point is useless in comparison and Nidoking isn't bulky enough to take advantage of it. The below sets may go against the team's purpose, but the way you're currently using Nidoking isn't the most effective way to use it:
-Sludge Wave/Sludge Bomb
-Earth Power
-Ice Beam
-Protect
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force

or
-Sludge Wave/Sludge Bomb
-Earth Power
-Ice Beam/Fire Blast
-Thunderbolt/Fire Blast
Nature: Timid/Modest
EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Choice Scarf
Ability: Sheer Force

I don't think Mega Aggron has a place in doubles, given that it struggles against common spread moves in Earthquake and Heat Wave, even with Filter. Even then, there are better spreaders of Thunder Wave out there, like Meowstic, Klefki Whimsicott (who have Prankster) or Gyarados (who has offensive presence in addition to Intimidate support to help sponge physical hits):

Meowstic (male):
-Quick Guard
-Psychic/Fake Out
-Safeguard/Charm/Helping Hand
-Thunder Wave/Charm/Swagger/Helping Hand
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP/88 Def/168 SDef
Item: Mental Herb/Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster

Klefki:
-Reflect
-Light Screen
-Thunder Wave/Safeguard
-Foul Play
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP/64 Def/192 SDef
Item: Light Clay
Ability: Prankster

or
-Safeguard
-Swagger
-Foul Play
-Protect/Thunder Wave
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP/164 Def/92 SDef
Item: Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster

Whimsicott:
-Tailwind
-Encore/Taunt
-Helping Hand/Moonblast/Giga Drain
-Protect
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 HP/40 Def/216 Spe
Item: Sitrus Berry/Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster

Gyarados:
-Waterfall
-Taunt
-Protect
-Thunder Wave/Icy Wind
Nature: Impish
EVs: 252 HP/208 Def/48 Spe
Item: Sitrus Berry
Ability: Intimidate

Super Luck only works on whoever has the ability; in that case, Honchkrow.

TriforceCourage

Male
Pokemon Day Care
Seen November 26th, 2014
Posted November 26th, 2014
59 posts
8.7 Years
In doubles, Protect is a staple because it lets you do things like scout for attacks or give a partner time to take out an opponent. Doubles formats are different from singles formats, and the team you're using appears to be geared for Singles. Some moves, like Stealth Rock, are unsuitable for doubles teams.

The doubles environment is too fast-paced for Togekiss to Roost up, so Protect should be in the last slot. Life Orb also comprises its bulk, so consider giving it Leftovers or Sitrus Berry.

Natural Cure is the preferred ability on Chansey, as your set currently has no moves to take advantage of Serene Grace whatsoever. Just because something has Serene Grace doesn't mean it should use it. Entry hazards aren't that useful in doubles, since you rarely switch in that environment. Instead of Stealth Rock, you can use Heal Pulse to heal a teammate.

Honchkrow has no use for Foul Play, as its Attack is rather good enough to let it deal damage on its own:
-Sucker Punch
-Brave Bird
-Night Slash/Superpower/Tailwind
-Protect
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk/4 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Dread Plate/Black Glasses/Charti Berry/Wacan Berry/Sitrus Berry

Special Nidoking is better than physical Nidoking because virtually all of Nidoking's special moves benefit from Sheer Force, which is the very ability that made Nidoking viable in the first place. Physical Nidoking only has Poison Jab, Rock Slide and the elemental punches as Sheer Force-compatible moves, but they're weaker than Earth Power, Sludge Bomb/Wave and Ice Beam/Thunderbolt/Flamethrower. Also, a Sheer Force-boosted Earth Power outdamages Earthquake. Poison Point is useless in comparison and Nidoking isn't bulky enough to take advantage of it. The below sets may go against the team's purpose, but the way you're currently using Nidoking isn't the most effective way to use it:
-Sludge Wave/Sludge Bomb
-Earth Power
-Ice Beam
-Protect
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force

or
-Sludge Wave/Sludge Bomb
-Earth Power
-Ice Beam/Fire Blast
-Thunderbolt/Fire Blast
Nature: Timid/Modest
EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Choice Scarf
Ability: Sheer Force

I don't think Mega Aggron has a place in doubles, given that it struggles against common spread moves in Earthquake and Heat Wave, even with Filter. Even then, there are better spreaders of Thunder Wave out there, like Meowstic, Klefki Whimsicott (who have Prankster) or Gyarados (who has offensive presence in addition to Intimidate support to help sponge physical hits):

Meowstic (male):
-Quick Guard
-Psychic/Fake Out
-Safeguard/Charm/Helping Hand
-Thunder Wave/Charm/Swagger/Helping Hand
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP/88 Def/168 SDef
Item: Mental Herb/Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster

Klefki:
-Reflect
-Light Screen
-Thunder Wave/Safeguard
-Foul Play
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP/64 Def/192 SDef
Item: Light Clay
Ability: Prankster

or
-Safeguard
-Swagger
-Foul Play
-Protect/Thunder Wave
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP/164 Def/92 SDef
Item: Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster

Whimsicott:
-Tailwind
-Encore/Taunt
-Helping Hand/Moonblast/Giga Drain
-Protect
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 HP/40 Def/216 Spe
Item: Sitrus Berry/Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster

Gyarados:
-Waterfall
-Taunt
-Protect
-Thunder Wave/Icy Wind
Nature: Impish
EVs: 252 HP/208 Def/48 Spe
Item: Sitrus Berry
Ability: Intimidate

Super Luck only works on whoever has the ability; in that case, Honchkrow.
I think you completly missed the point of my team bro, i agree protect is a wise decision, heal pulse i will proabably make room for, but this team is based off of Serene Grace usage, making the best if the secondary effects. I chose my team as is and its going to stay as is. I dont want other pokes or for you to rebuild my team and im prettu sure i didnt ask for that. Chansey has serene grace because its a serene grace team other wise i would use natural cure. Honchkrow has super luck and scope lens because its attacks are based off high damage and high crit ratio. Aggron may be slow but it packs a huge defense and can take several earthquakes and heat wave hardly touches it, and with my SpD investment it becomes a stable brick wall that makes up for its slow speed. This team is designed to slow down the fast pace doubles and give my pokes time to make use of those serene grace secondary effects. For example:
1. Aggron can t-wave, both pokes and still have health to use earthquake and/or iron head at least 2 times
2. Togekiss can out speed pretty much all of its threats while it t-waves or para flinches.
3. Honchkrow packs a massive punch sweeping out alot of threats with high crit damage.
4. Chansey sits, stalls, heals, supports, and can maybe deal a bit of damage as it goes with seismic toss.
5. Dunsparce paraflinches while takes a massive load of damage then roosts and the party starts all over.
6. Nidoking not so sure about. Honeslty he will probably be replaced for something of better value to my team. It was just something i had scrapped together for testing purposes. Maybe a prankster poke would do. Like sableye to ready for ORAS.
Dangerous knowledge is still knowledge and therefore useful.

August 29th 2014: Completed XY National Pokedex. Own all 719 Pokemon.

I used to be an adventurer like you until I took an Ice Spike to the face

Currently On break from XY and ORAS until i can buy a new 3ds I dont have a Friend Code anymore, so please refrain from asking about it. Thanks.

PlatinumDude

Nyeh?

Age 29
Male
Canada
Seen July 31st, 2020
Posted May 30th, 2020
12,958 posts
12.7 Years
I think you completly missed the point of my team bro, i agree protect is a wise decision, heal pulse i will proabably make room for, but this team is based off of Serene Grace usage, making the best if the secondary effects. I chose my team as is and its going to stay as is. I dont want other pokes or for you to rebuild my team and im prettu sure i didnt ask for that. Chansey has serene grace because its a serene grace team other wise i would use natural cure. Honchkrow has super luck and scope lens because its attacks are based off high damage and high crit ratio. Aggron may be slow but it packs a huge defense and can take several earthquakes and heat wave hardly touches it, and with my SpD investment it becomes a stable brick wall that makes up for its slow speed. This team is designed to slow down the fast pace doubles and give my pokes time to make use of those serene grace secondary effects. For example:
1. Aggron can t-wave, both pokes and still have health to use earthquake and/or iron head at least 2 times
2. Togekiss can out speed pretty much all of its threats while it t-waves or para flinches.
3. Honchkrow packs a massive punch sweeping out alot of threats with high crit damage.
4. Chansey sits, stalls, heals, supports, and can maybe deal a bit of damage as it goes with seismic toss.
5. Dunsparce paraflinches while takes a massive load of damage then roosts and the party starts all over.
6. Nidoking not so sure about. Honeslty he will probably be replaced for something of better value to my team. It was just something i had scrapped together for testing purposes. Maybe a prankster poke would do. Like sableye to ready for ORAS.
Serene Grace is a tough play style to build around in doubles. I still get the point of the team; it's just that there are better options than Mega Aggron in doubles formats. The other problem I see with Mega Aggron is that pre-Mega Evolution, it's seriously weak to Fighting, Ground (4x for both) and Water and it can't fit in its STABs, Earthquake, Protect and Thunder Wave all in one set. If you lose Earthquake, you lose out on damaging Steels. If you lose Protect, you lose the ability to Mega Evolve safely. Give up a STAB and you lose coverage. Gyarados is the better alternative over Mega Aggron, as it has a better defensive typing to use without having to Mega Evolve, can spread paralysis with Thunder Wave and cause a potential flinch with Waterfall.

Given Sableye's mediocre stats all-round, I don't think it's suitable for doubles, as the Fairy weakness it gained is rather nasty. Klefki, Meowstic and Whimsicott are the Prankster users to go to because of their better defensive typing (for Klefki and Whimsicott) or wider utility options in doubles (all three, especially Meowstic).

I already suggested a better Honchkrow set for this reason alone; you may have missed it: it's strong enough on its own not to rely on Foul Play. The set also has Superpower for hitting Steels harder, or a support option to speed up the team for a while in Tailwind; heck, you can even use Thunder Wave instead for more paralysis. Relying on critical hits as a source of damage isn't good either; you only get them 50% of the time. I forgot to mention this bit: while Steel Wing does give Honchkrow an option to hit Fairies, a neutral STAB Brave Bird actually outdamages a 2x super effective Steel Wing:
252+ Atk Life Orb Honchkrow Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Sylveon: 265-313 (67.2 - 79.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Honchkrow Steel Wing vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Sylveon: 208-247 (52.7 - 62.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Unless you're massively afraid of Carbink or Diancie for whatever reason, Steel Wing shouldn't be used.

As I mentioned before, all of your current Chansey's moves don't benefit from Serene Grace at all. Stick to Natural Cure so in the event that Chansey gets crippled by poison or burn, it can simply switch out. If Chansey doesn't have moves that benefit from Serene Grace at all, what's the point of having it in the first place? Time to bring up another example: while Pyroar has Moxie as an ability, its Attack isn't high enough to take advantage of it. Do you see physical Pyroar running around because of Moxie? The answer is no.

TriforceCourage

Male
Pokemon Day Care
Seen November 26th, 2014
Posted November 26th, 2014
59 posts
8.7 Years
Serene Grace is a tough play style to build around in doubles. I still get the point of the team; it's just that there are better options than Mega Aggron in doubles formats. The other problem I see with Mega Aggron is that pre-Mega Evolution, it's seriously weak to Fighting, Ground (4x for both) and Water and it can't fit in its STABs, Earthquake, Protect and Thunder Wave all in one set. If you lose Earthquake, you lose out on damaging Steels. If you lose Protect, you lose the ability to Mega Evolve safely. Give up a STAB and you lose coverage. Gyarados is the better alternative over Mega Aggron, as it has a better defensive typing to use without having to Mega Evolve, can spread paralysis with Thunder Wave and cause a potential flinch with Waterfall.

Given Sableye's mediocre stats all-round, I don't think it's suitable for doubles, as the Fairy weakness it gained is rather nasty. Klefki, Meowstic and Whimsicott are the Prankster users to go to because of their better defensive typing (for Klefki and Whimsicott) or wider utility options in doubles (all three, especially Meowstic).

I already suggested a better Honchkrow set for this reason alone; you may have missed it: it's strong enough on its own not to rely on Foul Play. The set also has Superpower for hitting Steels harder, or a support option to speed up the team for a while in Tailwind; heck, you can even use Thunder Wave instead for more paralysis. Relying on critical hits as a source of damage isn't good either; you only get them 50% of the time. I forgot to mention this bit: while Steel Wing does give Honchkrow an option to hit Fairies, a neutral STAB Brave Bird actually outdamages a 2x super effective Steel Wing:
252+ Atk Life Orb Honchkrow Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Sylveon: 265-313 (67.2 - 79.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Honchkrow Steel Wing vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Sylveon: 208-247 (52.7 - 62.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Unless you're massively afraid of Carbink or Diancie for whatever reason, Steel Wing shouldn't be used.

As I mentioned before, all of your current Chansey's moves don't benefit from Serene Grace at all. Stick to Natural Cure so in the event that Chansey gets crippled by poison or burn, it can simply switch out. If Chansey doesn't have moves that benefit from Serene Grace at all, what's the point of having it in the first place? Time to bring up another example: while Pyroar has Moxie as an ability, its Attack isn't high enough to take advantage of it. Do you see physical Pyroar running around because of Moxie? The answer is no.
I might end up changing it for singles anyways. I started this thread as doubles team because i read several places and was under the impression that serene grace worked for both pokes on my team. But now that i really research into it the mass seems that it only works on the one who has serene grace, explains why i put chansey with serene grace. Im going to close this thread now and start another when i figure out my singles team.
Dangerous knowledge is still knowledge and therefore useful.

August 29th 2014: Completed XY National Pokedex. Own all 719 Pokemon.

I used to be an adventurer like you until I took an Ice Spike to the face

Currently On break from XY and ORAS until i can buy a new 3ds I dont have a Friend Code anymore, so please refrain from asking about it. Thanks.