timemagetim

Timemagetim

Male
Seen January 21st, 2015
Posted January 13th, 2015
41 posts
8.4 Years
So I had a competitive OU team that i had been running with for several months at this point that is partially unusable now. I used to run:

Spoiler:
Cinccino (F) @ King's Rock
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Tail Slap
- Bullet Seed
- Rock Blast
- Knock Off

Venusaur (M) @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Energy Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Frenzy Plant
- Synthesis

Sableye (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Confuse Ray
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Foul Play

Umbreon (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Curse
- Moonlight
- Toxic
- Payback

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Grass Knot
- Scald
- Ice Beam

Togekiss @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Roost
- Dazzling Gleam
- Air Slash



This team served me well and i never wanted to change it. However with Greninja soon to be banned (as it should be) I will need to change it up. I also want to drop the Togekiss because she isn't preforming as well as I had hoped. I am taking any suggestions as to what pokemon I should replace them with. I hope to keep the first four and find some decent replacements for the other two. Any suggestions for what might be handy would be appreciated.

Any ideas for tweaks on the first four already here would also be appreciated.
Pokemon Breeder, Berry master, Ghost type enthusiast, Hoarder.

PlatinumDude

Nyeh?

Age 29
Male
Canada
Seen July 31st, 2020
Posted May 30th, 2020
12,958 posts
12.7 Years
While Cinccino does make a good Skill Link abuser, its frailty makes it a suboptimal choice. Diggersby, on the other hand, packs plenty of power thanks to its Huge Power ability. While it's not that fast, it has priority Quick Attack to snipe faster threats. Its bulk, while not the best, is enough so it doesn't roll over and die to any decently-powered attack:
-Swords Dance
-Return
-Earthquake
-Quick Attack
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Focus Sash
Ability: Huge Power

or
-Return
-Earthquake
-U-turn
-Wild Charge/Knock Off/Fire Punch
Nature: Adamant/Jolly
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Item: Choice Scarf
Ability: Huge Power

Sableye is only good in its Mega Evolution. Its Mega Evolution is bulkier and status moves can't touch it thanks to Magic Bounce. Regular Sableye isn't that bulky, really:
-Calm Mind
-Dark Pulse/Shadow Ball
-Will-o-Wisp
-Recover
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef
Item: Sablenite
Ability: Prankster

Whatever Umbreon can do, Sylveon can do better:
-Wish
-Protect
-Hyper Voice
-Heal Bell
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP/220 Def/36 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate

Protean is the sole reason why Greninja is good. Simply changing it up to Torrent isn't doing you any favors because Greninja itself may get banned, but Protean won't. Why? Because while Protean is a good ability, the only other Pokemon who has it is the relatively subpar Kecleon. So until Greninja is banned, here's the best set for it to use:
-Hydro Pump/Low Kick
-Ice Beam
-Gunk Shot
-Dark Pulse/Hidden Power (Fire)/Grass Knot
Nature: Naive
EVs: 40 Atk/216 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Protean

Leftovers is the preferred item on Togekiss so that it has steady recovery.

As for your other two members, either Ferrothorn or Heatran can take the first slot, as both have Stealth Rock and synergize well with Sableye:

Ferrothorn:
-Stealth Rock/Spikes
-Leech Seed
-Power Whip/Protect
-Gyro Ball/Thunder Wave
Nature: Relaxed
EVs: 252 HP/88 Def/168 SDef
Item: Leftovers/Shed Shell
Ability: Iron Barbs

Heatran:
-Lave Plume
-Toxic
-Taunt/Roar
-Stealth Rock/Protect/Earth Power
Nature: Calm
EVs: 248 HP/192 SDef/68 Spe
Item: Leftovers

or
-Fire Blast/Lava Plume
-Stealth Rock
-Taunt
-Toxic
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe or 248 HP/8 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Air Balloon/Leftovers

or
-Overheat/Fire Blast
-Flash Cannon
-Earth Power/Hidden Power (Ice)
-Stone Edge/Ancient Power
Nature: Timid
EVs: 28 HP/4 Def/252 SAtk/228 Spe
Item: Choice Scarf

or
-Magma Storm
-Earth Power
-Taunt
-Toxic
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SAtk/4 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Leftovers/Air Balloon

I don't know about the second slot, really.

timemagetim

Timemagetim

Male
Seen January 21st, 2015
Posted January 13th, 2015
41 posts
8.4 Years
While Cinccino does make a good Skill Link abuser, its frailty makes it a suboptimal choice. Diggersby, on the other hand, packs plenty of power thanks to its Huge Power ability. While it's not that fast, it has priority Quick Attack to snipe faster threats. Its bulk, while not the best, is enough so it doesn't roll over and die to any decently-powered attack:
-Swords Dance
-Return
-Earthquake
-Quick Attack
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Focus Sash
Ability: Huge Power

or
-Return
-Earthquake
-U-turn
-Wild Charge/Knock Off/Fire Punch
Nature: Adamant/Jolly
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Item: Choice Scarf
Ability: Huge Power

Sableye is only good in its Mega Evolution. Its Mega Evolution is bulkier and status moves can't touch it thanks to Magic Bounce. Regular Sableye isn't that bulky, really:
-Calm Mind
-Dark Pulse/Shadow Ball
-Will-o-Wisp
-Recover
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef
Item: Sablenite
Ability: Prankster

Whatever Umbreon can do, Sylveon can do better:
-Wish
-Protect
-Hyper Voice
-Heal Bell
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP/220 Def/36 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate

Protean is the sole reason why Greninja is good. Simply changing it up to Torrent isn't doing you any favors because Greninja itself may get banned, but Protean won't. Why? Because while Protean is a good ability, the only other Pokemon who has it is the relatively subpar Kecleon. So until Greninja is banned, here's the best set for it to use:
-Hydro Pump/Low Kick
-Ice Beam
-Gunk Shot
-Dark Pulse/Hidden Power (Fire)/Grass Knot
Nature: Naive
EVs: 40 Atk/216 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Protean

Leftovers is the preferred item on Togekiss so that it has steady recovery.

As for your other two members, either Ferrothorn or Heatran can take the first slot, as both have Stealth Rock and synergize well with Sableye:

Ferrothorn:
-Stealth Rock/Spikes
-Leech Seed
-Power Whip/Protect
-Gyro Ball/Thunder Wave
Nature: Relaxed
EVs: 252 HP/88 Def/168 SDef
Item: Leftovers/Shed Shell
Ability: Iron Barbs

Heatran:
-Lave Plume
-Toxic
-Taunt/Roar
-Stealth Rock/Protect/Earth Power
Nature: Calm
EVs: 248 HP/192 SDef/68 Spe
Item: Leftovers

or
-Fire Blast/Lava Plume
-Stealth Rock
-Taunt
-Toxic
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe or 248 HP/8 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Air Balloon/Leftovers

or
-Overheat/Fire Blast
-Flash Cannon
-Earth Power/Hidden Power (Ice)
-Stone Edge/Ancient Power
Nature: Timid
EVs: 28 HP/4 Def/252 SAtk/228 Spe
Item: Choice Scarf

or
-Magma Storm
-Earth Power
-Taunt
-Toxic
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SAtk/4 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Leftovers/Air Balloon

I don't know about the second slot, really.
while i appreciate the effort you didnt do much helping. telling me better mons or movesets for the pokemon i want to keep wasnt much use. Sableye is much more useful prior to its mega evolution because of its prankster ability getting priority confuse ray, will-o-wisp and recover, telling me what to run on a pokemon that im trying to replace because its getting banned is a bit unhelpful. I really do appreciate the effort you went to but you answered none of the actual questions i was hoping for.

to clarify for anyone else i want to find replacements for greninja and togekiss. and am unlikely to replace the other actual pokemon that i use.
Pokemon Breeder, Berry master, Ghost type enthusiast, Hoarder.

PlatinumDude

Nyeh?

Age 29
Male
Canada
Seen July 31st, 2020
Posted May 30th, 2020
12,958 posts
12.7 Years
while i appreciate the effort you didnt do much helping. telling me better mons or movesets for the pokemon i want to keep wasnt much use. Sableye is much more useful prior to its mega evolution because of its prankster ability getting priority confuse ray, will-o-wisp and recover, telling me what to run on a pokemon that im trying to replace because its getting banned is a bit unhelpful. I really do appreciate the effort you went to but you answered none of the actual questions i was hoping for.

to clarify for anyone else i want to find replacements for greninja and togekiss. and am unlikely to replace the other actual pokemon that i use.
Non-Mega Sableye can still be used, but it pales in comparison to its Mega Evolution because the former isn't that bulky even when invested, as I mentioned before. The only reason you should use regular Sableye is only if you have a Mega slot taken up. You can always hold off of Mega Evolving Sableye until the right moment. Confuse Ray isn't a useful attack because confusion can easily be cured by switching out.

If Greninja were to be banned, Latios, Gengar, Mega Lopunny, Mega Sceptile, Mega Gallade, Mega Aerodactyl, Mega Diancie and Mega Metagross are decent replacements:

Latios:
-Draco Meteor
-Psyshock
-Surf/Hidden Power (Fire)/Earthquake
-Defog/Roost
Nature: Timid/Hasty
EVs: 252 SAtk/4 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb

or
-Draco Meteor
-Psyshock
-Defog/Tailwind/Hidden Power (Fire)
-Trick
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SAtk/4 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Choice Scarf

Gengar:
-Sludge Wave/Sludge Bomb
-Focus Blast
-Destiny Bond/Taunt/Substitute
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SAtk/4 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Focus Sash/Black Sludge

or
-Substitute
-Shadow Ball
-Will-o-Wisp
-Taunt/Sludge Bomb/Sludge Wave/Disable
Nature: Timid
EVs: 28 HP/148 SAtk/80 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Black Sludge

or
-Hex
-Taunt
-Will-o-Wisp
-Sludge Wave/Sludge Bomb/Substitute
Nature: Timid
EVs: 8 HP/248 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Black Sludge

Lopunny:
-Fake Out
-Return
-High Jump Kick
-Ice Punch/Healing Wish/Toxic/Encore
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Lopunnite
Ability: Limber

or
-Substitute
-Return
-High Jump Kick
-Baton Pass/Ice Punch/Encore
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Lopunnite
Ability: Limber

Sceptile:
-Leaf Storm/Energy Ball
-Dragon Pulse
-Earthquake/Protect
-Focus Blast/Hidden Power (Fire)
Nature: Naive/Timid
EVs: 4 Atk/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Sceptilite
Ability: Overgrow

or
-Substitute
-Giga Drain
-Dragon Pulse
-Focus Blast
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SAtk/4 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Sceptilite
Ability: Overgrow

Gallade:
-Swords Dance
-Zen Headbutt
-Close Combat
-Knock Off/Ice Punch
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Item: Galladite

Aerodactyl:
-Stone Edge
-Aerial Ace
-Fire Fang/Earthquake
-Aqua Tail/Ice Fang
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 248 Atk/44 Def/216 Spe
Item: Aerodactylite

Diancie:
-Diamond Storm
-Moonblast
-Earth Power/Hidden Power (Fire)
-Stealth Rock/Hidden Power (Fire)/Protect
Nature: Hasty/Naive
EVs: 16 Atk/240 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Diancite

or
-Rock Polish
-Diamond Storm
-Moonblast
-Earth Power/Hidden Power (Fire)
Nature: Rash/Mild
EVs: 64 HP/16 Atk/252 SAtk/176 Spe
Item: Diancite

or
-Calm Mind
-Moonblast
-Earth Power
-Psyshock/Hidden Power (Fire)
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SAtk/4 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Diancite

Metagross:
-Meteor Mash
-Zen Headbutt
-Earthquake/Hammer Arm
-Ice Punch/Bullet Punch/Grass Knot
Nature: Jolly/Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body

or
-Agility
-Meteor Mash
-Zen Headbutt
-Earthquake/Hammer Arm
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 80 HP/252 Atk/176 Spe
Item: Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body

Clefable is a nice replacement for Togekiss. If you didn't pick any of the above Megas, Mega Altaria is also fine:

Clefable:
-Calm Mind
-Moonblast
-Stored Power/Flamethrower
-Soft-Boiled/Moonlight
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef
Item: Leftovers/Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard

or
-Wish
-Protect
-Moonblast
-Heal Bell/Aromatherapy/Thunder Wave
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Unaware

or
-Moonblast
-Fire Blast
-Thunder Wave
-Soft-Boiled/Moonlight
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SAtk
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard

or
-Stealth Rock
-Moonblast
-Fire Blast
-Soft-Boiled/Moonlight
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP/160 Def/96 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard

Altaria:
-Dragon Dance
-Return
-Earthquake/Heal Bell/Substitute
-Roost
Nature: Impish
EVs: 248 HP/136 Def/96 SDef/28 Spe
Item: Altarianite
Ability: Natural Cure

or
-Dragon Dance
-Return
-Earthquake
-Roost/Fire Blast
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Altarianite
Ability: Natural Cure

or
-Hyper Voice/Return
-Flamethrower/Earthquake/Perish Song
-Heal Bell
-Roost
Nature: Bold/Impish
EVs: 248 HP/104 Def/156 SDef
Item: Altarianite
Ability: Natural Cure

or
-Hyper Voice
-Fire Blast
-Earthquake/Heal Bell
-Roost
Nature: Modest
EVs: 20 HP/252 Atk/236 Spe
Item: Altariaite
Ability: Natural Cure

And I'm just wondering, but why are you so keen on keeping Cinccino and Umbreon when they're terrible in OU for the reasons I stated?

If you insist on keeping Umbreon, then use this, as this is a much more better use of its supporting capabilities:
-Wish
-Protect
-Foul Play
-Heal Bell
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize

And if you insist on keeping Cincinno, give it Life Orb; it's not that strong, really.

I can't really rate this team since it doesn't really look like its made to do much in ou, you should look at viability rankings and maybe the current teams that are used so u get an idea and a feel about the current meta at smogon.
I am saying this because things like Wp toge and Cincino are rather bad gimmicks. Needless to say your bird spam weak.
Anyway read up a bit, ladder as much as u can and then we will probably be able to help you better :)

timemagetim

Timemagetim

Male
Seen January 21st, 2015
Posted January 13th, 2015
41 posts
8.4 Years
I want to keep nonmega sableye, Cinccino and Umbreon because I have had excellent luck with all of them. Cinccino utilizing kings rock with skill link gives it a near 50% flinch chance which helps to deal with its frailty. I'm insisting on keeping these pokemon because I'm not actually playing competetively. I'm playing for the fun of it. And these pokemon serve me well.
Pokemon Breeder, Berry master, Ghost type enthusiast, Hoarder.