The great debate: are you in or out?

So I'm scrolling around Discussion and Debates, and I'm consciously thinking of the fact that I never really post in the section, but I do like to read the opinions others have on certain matters. This got me thinking of a good thread for GC. Keep in mind that the question does not pertain to Discussion and Debates; rather it's debates and arguments in general (in real life, online, anywhere really).

Are you a person who tries to argue their point, or are you more of a witness, someone who doesn't like to get sucked into debates, but will follow them with legitimate interest. For those who do the former and partake, can you give a reason why, if there is one? Might sound like an odd, and perhaps bad question, but I'll ask it. Similar question to those who avoid debates; why?

I will debate if the debate is fair. Like, if I am with another person and we just talk and take a time to see the point of each other. But I am very frustrated when someone attack my ideas and don't want to see the other side of the medal.
Like the other day, we got into a debate but it wasn't fair at all. I was with 3 of my firends who aren't in the same ideas than me (we study in opposite subjects at college). I litterally felt attacked and they were 3 against me. I hate it!!! You cannot have your ideas and they don't want to heard it, they will only critic you and your ideas about the subject. So I was like "wathever" and I stopped there because I was going crazy (I might have some anger issues).

I belittle the personal in any argument. Ergo, I hold your argument in very low esteem if your reasoning is a personal one. The standpoint "I think X should receive the death penalty because Y relative was victim of Z crime he committed and that's just awful" is the wrong direction to approach anything.

That said, I do enjoy debates in and of themselves... if you can find one. D&D looks like it has some major fucking personal issues amongst its patrons which needs to die before it can prosper. Arguing is so uninteresting to me.

I love a good debate, there's something really fun about a battle of logic. I enjoy trying to outwit an adversary and force them to concede defeat.

Arguments are a bit different, I don't enjoy them I'm just good at them. I'm not the type of person who will let someone shit all over my beliefs with impunity. They are entitled to their opinions and are even welcome to share them, but don't you dare try to force me to abide by them or trample over mine.

I feel like debates are about education and communication but arguments are about control and subjugation.

avoid, observe, enjoy.

generally won't argue with someone because often our views are formed on the ideals we've grown up with/formed over the years so it's more likely to end up with a full blown flurry of words being fired on both sides without anything being taken in from the experience. D&D has done nothing to change my mind on that!

"BUT SURELY YOU SHOULD CHALLENGE THE WRONG IDEALS RATHER THAN SITTING IN THE BACKGROUND WATCHING THE DEBATE/ARGUMENT/etc" well if it was encouraging rape/murder for some reason of course I oppose it. most sane people do! But in the case of ideologies on less clear cut matters I prefer to leave people be even if I disagree with them. Nothing discredits your argument more than a full blown disrespectable spectacle.

For me, I love having a debate with someone. When I can take my time, understand the topic and have my own side to put forward. I like to have my side of a story and I adore hearing other sides. I love being objective as much as is humanly possible to a subject to a debate or situation. Or course, that's not 100%, but as close as I can get. When people present my argument with a hard counter-argument, I love finding ways to keep my point-of-view intact, whilst still accepting the opposing view.

I hate controlling and argument and bullying the opposing side, that's not what a debate is about. I love discussions where two people disagree but the salt is left in the cupboard.

And one thing I absolutely ADORE is when someone attacks a friend or a member of my family. It gives me an excuse to pull out the gloves and really pull the punches. I should say that I love to defend the people I care about, because when pushed, I've found the ONLY person able to stand up to my arguments is my mother XD

Debating and arguing is something I'm good at, never really looking to actively partake in, but do enjoy the majority of the time. I've never lost an argument to anyone but my mother, and debates really force me to think about what I believe and I LOVE that.

I must sound very strange haha

NinjaAiden said:

For me, I love having a debate with someone. When I can take my time, understand the topic and have my own side to put forward. I like to have my side of a story and I adore hearing other sides. I love being objective as much as is humanly possible to a subject to a debate or situation. Or course, that's not 100%, but as close as I can get. When people present my argument with a hard counter-argument, I love finding ways to keep my point-of-view intact, whilst still accepting the opposing view.

I hate controlling and argument and bullying the opposing side, that's not what a debate is about. I love discussions where two people disagree but the salt is left in the cupboard.

And one thing I absolutely ADORE is when someone attacks a friend or a member of my family. It gives me an excuse to pull out the gloves and really pull the punches. I should say that I love to defend the people I care about, because when pushed, I've found the ONLY person able to stand up to my arguments is my mother XD

Debating and arguing is something I'm good at, never really looking to actively partake in, but do enjoy the majority of the time. I've never lost an argument to anyone but my mother, and debates really force me to think about what I believe and I LOVE that.

I must sound very strange haha

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nah, you sound quite reasonable tbh.

I'm quite interested to hear what you do when the other person resorts to ad hominem though?

It is important for me to win as many debates as possible in order to not only gain respect from others and raise my chances at becoming mod material for whichever section, but also try make the voices from the minority such as youtubers or my online friends on Skype heard to know whether or not their opinions are justified or not so I could either adopt it or reject it as my own.

Luck Hax said:

nah, you sound quite reasonable tbh.

I'm quite interested to hear what you do when the other person resorts to ad hominem though?

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In all honesty, whenever someone resorts to ad hominem, I will leave the argument. When someone resorts to ad hominem, it is no longer an argument, but simply a fight all about who could insult the other worse. Those situations simply anger me, so I leave them.

If someone were to look to start a fight or argument by insulting me however, I agree with them. 100% of the time I agree with any insult to my being. Because that's who I am. And it more often than not cuts them right off. If someone brings it up in a debate and I then agree, they have no counter-argument, no comeback, because they haven't prepared one, and it ends the argument or debate and I'll take my leave.

I just call people out on their hypocritical bullshit. I don't argue or debate.

I'm the kind of person who doesn't get involved in debates, and never in arguments. I just don't have the energy or the desire to defend my personal views from people anymore. It doesn't matter to me if my opinion coincides with other people's or not: there is always going to be someone who disagrees with me.

I don't see the need to try and force others to accept my view, whether through calm debate or violent argument. The end goal is the same; it's just the manner in which people go about it that changes. Call that cynical, but that's just my view on the whole thing. It's all about asserting one's views, about being right/superior/whatever else, and I don't feel the need to do that anymore. I'm quite happy to admit that sometimes I might not have a full picture about something, or others might have more evidence for their views than I do for mine. It doesn't change anything for me, and I doubt it changes anything for others, so why should I defend my views? If we disagree, why can we not simply agree to disagree?

There are as many views about things as there are people in the world. I'm quite happy to discuss my views with someone on a one-to-one basis and compare ideas without attempting to persuade/brainwash/bully someone into accepting my views, but to defend my point in a wider community, against multiple people? It's just not worth the bother. I don't feel the need to justify my stance to people anymore: I believe what I believe, and people can either accept that or just leave me alone, because I'm not going to be drawn into a pointless debate or argument that ultimately won't change anything.

I'm out lol

I hate arguing and debating, even listening to it drives me insane. The only time I give my two cents is if I see someone who is clearly wrong mindlessly ranting, not even listening to the other person who is right.

I like to discuss things and hear different ideas, but if it starts turning into a debate I kindly tell them they can think whatever they want and leave.

No way man, these debates are just not worth having. I've learned that opinions are more trouble than they're worth, they don't do me any good. Sure I have preferences, but I find the more neutral I am with the people around me, the more I can connect and learn from them. I just want to get to know and love everyone around me, that's the only opinion I need.

I'm kind of the witness. In fact, I don't even like the D&D section. I stick to my own opinions, and I'm not the type of person willing to debate them at all. I've always been terrible at them, so I pretty much steer clear of that place. XD

I must admit, when I see people in an argument I'm not part of, I do go and grab the popcorn, pull up a chair and enjoy the show. Especially when it's on Facebook. Does anyone else get that? Facebook arguments are the most entertaining thing the site offers XD

As many have expressed in this thread, I see no point in disputing the opinions of others. So I am out. It often just ends in a fiery hellpit with nobody agreeing. Even if it is civil, people still aren't going to budge on their views. Maybe they'll budge a tiny bit, but what's the point for so little pay-off? Instead of a debate or outright conflict, I'd rather it'd just be people expressing their views in a casual way, kind of tossing ideas, not trying to prove anything right or wrong.

I do enjoy to just sit and watch some of the more entertainingly vicious debates. Watching humans is something that is fascinating to me. Whether they're having fun or yelling at each other, I always feel like this strange alien outsider who does not understand their odd ways. When I am frustrated during witnessing a debate, I will talk about those who I think are idiots to my fiance in the safety of my own privacy. Pretty much any view I disagree with is handled in that way. I'll blow off my steam for how stupid I think someone else's opinions are to myself and to close friends. Not to their faces. It's always good to avoid unnecessary strife.

Another reason is that my self-esteem is low enough as is. A debate often shakes me to my core, because I always, always, always, no matter how stupid or evil an opinion might seem, think that there might be some truth to it. People disputing me always makes me doubtful, and I am just far too open to outer influences to handle it. I can't take all of this outer resistance and pressure. It WILL cause me to break. My beliefs are so shaky that you might be able to convince me that the sky is a different color after a lot of hostile prodding. I'm just not sure of anything. There's nothing I trust, and nothing I think is 100% in this world.

Sometimes I will pop in a thread that is more controversial and drive-by with my opinion (because I HAVE to get it out somehow - that stuff bunches up in there), but I almost never follow up on it. My rule of thumb is that if someone says they don't agree with you, don't respond. It'll just cause the kind of back and forth.

i tend to stay away from the discussion but read them and observe how others feel about said topic. i don't bother considering many people are closed minded and once they've got any ideal in their head they continually preach the same thing even when in opposition, there have been many valid points made.

I love arguing/debating/educating etc. That being said, it all has to be in good nature. I don't like forcing my opinion down other peoples' throats--especially if they've made it clear they aren't interested. I always provide a basis for my opinion and it irks me when others do not. I tend to have debates with online people/certain groups and arguments with in person friends. It'd be a debate with the latter group but they don't use much reasoning or logic behind their opinion. I've even legitimately proved stuff they have said wrong and they always simply resort to "Well you're the only one who thinks that so you're wrong!" So nowadays I tend to just leave it be. Ignorance is bliss, is it not?

And no, I'm not claiming to be all-knowing. I enjoy being proven wrong although it doesn't happen much. Which probably has more do with the fact that if I don't know what I'm talking about I tend to not talk about it. A few times online(i.e. Facebook) I've really gotten into it with some people and they block me and report me or simply result to insulting me or providing weakly crafted straw-man/ad hominem arguments.

I love arguing/debating/educating etc. That being said, it all has to be in good nature. I don't like forcing my opinion down other peoples' throats--especially if they've made it clear they aren't interested. I always provide a basis for my opinion and it irks me when others do not. I tend to have debates with online people/certain groups and arguments with in person friends. It'd be a debate with the latter group but they don't use much reasoning or logic behind their opinion. I've even legitimately proved stuff they have said wrong and they always simply resort to "Well you're the only one who thinks that so you're wrong!" So nowadays I tend to just leave it be. Ignorance is bliss, is it not?

And no, I'm not claiming to be all-knowing. I enjoy being proven wrong although it doesn't happen much. Which probably has more do with the fact that if I don't know what I'm talking about I tend to not talk about it. A few times online(i.e. Facebook) I've really gotten into it with some people and they block me and report me or simply result to insulting me or providing weakly crafted straw-man/ad hominem arguments.

I'm a very passionate person who derives joy from the art of debate. I need to get my opinions out there and Lord forbid I ever back down due to fear or whatever. That being said, I know my flaws in this area. I have a tendency to let myself replace sheer reasoning with my emotions and expect everyone else to see things exactly as I am. But once I pull back and return to my typically rational form, I can engage in the debate with a lot more thought and overall enjoy it more.

Overall, I enjoy D&D because it gives me an opportunity to discuss worldly topics instead of the mindless babble that is present throughout most of the other sections. I find it interesting that people are so afraid of sharing their opinion that they'd rather stick to areas that require little to no thought at all.