RMT The Jumbo combo

Started by TheWailingWalrein January 27th, 2015 6:38 PM
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Seen February 1st, 2015
Posted January 30th, 2015
9 posts
8.3 Years
Now as my name should imply, I am a fan of the Water/Ice type Walrein. I recently traded for a Snorlax. I have a theory that Waldron and Snorlax would make a perfect duo. A Bulky Special attacker and a Bulky Physical attacker. I was wondering what y'all would think of my theory and how to correct it as needed. Much Obliged

Xairmo

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Posted February 18th, 2015
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Hmm just off the top of my head, they do both have a shared fighting weakness. Furthermore it would help to know the sets you're proposing for both of them and the sets for the rest of the team they'd be placed on. Also it would be nice to know Singles or Doubles or OU/UU.
Seen February 1st, 2015
Posted January 30th, 2015
9 posts
8.3 Years
Hmm just off the top of my head, they do both have a shared fighting weakness. Furthermore it would help to know the sets you're proposing for both of them and the sets for the rest of the team they'd be placed on. Also it would be nice to know Singles or Doubles or OU/UU.
Walrein: Ice Beam, Surf, Rest, and Scald. Leftovers.
Snorlax: Body Slam, Rest, Mega Punch, and Crunch. Possibly Chesto Berry
Battling: Preferably singles

PlatinumDude

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Walrein: Ice Beam, Surf, Rest, and Scald. Leftovers.
Snorlax: Body Slam, Rest, Mega Punch, and Crunch. Possibly Chesto Berry
Battling: Preferably singles
Walrein functions best in the hail that's brought by (Mega) Abomasnow. However, the main problem with the two, as well as Snorlax, is that both are weak to Fighting. If you happen to include all three at once, that's bad.

Walrein can't learn Scald. Here's a better set it should run, even though Abomasnow is a mandatory teammate for it, due to the hail inflicting passive damage to the opponent, as well as it activating the Ice Body ability between turns:
-Substitute
-Protect
-Blizzard/Surf
-Roar/Toxic
Nature: Bold
EVs: 232 HP/168 Def/108 Spe
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Ice Body

Mega Punch isn't that useful on Snorlax because not only does it have a chance to miss, but it also doesn't really do anything else. Body Slam is the preferred STAB move for a chance to inflict paralysis, while Return is another option for more power at max happiness. Snorlax should carry one STAB move at a time, generally; the only exception is Self-Destruct, which lets it nuke a non-Ghost/Rock/Steel Pokemon for massive damage; this is best used when Snorlax is on :
-Curse
-Body Slam/Return
-Rest
-Sleep Talk/Earthquake/Crunch
Nature: Careful
EVs: 144 HP/188 Def/176 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat

or
-Return/Body Slam/Double-Edge
-Pursuit/Crunch
-Earthquake
-Fire Punch
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk/88 Def/168 SDef
Item: Choice Band
Ability: Thick Fat

or
-Return/Body Slam
-Pursuit/Crunch
-Earthquake
-Fire Punch/Crunch
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Def/4 SDef
Item: Assault Vest
Ability: Thick Fat

Can you prove why Snorlax and Walrein work well together? I highly doubt they do because of their shared Fighting weakness.

Seen February 1st, 2015
Posted January 30th, 2015
9 posts
8.3 Years
Walrein functions best in the hail that's brought by (Mega) Abomasnow. However, the main problem with the two, as well as Snorlax, is that both are weak to Fighting. If you happen to include all three at once, that's bad.

Walrein can't learn Scald. Here's a better set it should run, even though Abomasnow is a mandatory teammate for it, due to the hail inflicting passive damage to the opponent, as well as it activating the Ice Body ability between turns:
-Substitute
-Protect
-Blizzard/Surf
-Roar/Toxic
Nature: Bold
EVs: 232 HP/168 Def/108 Spe
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Ice Body

Mega Punch isn't that useful on Snorlax because not only does it have a chance to miss, but it also doesn't really do anything else. Body Slam is the preferred STAB move for a chance to inflict paralysis, while Return is another option for more power at max happiness. Snorlax should carry one STAB move at a time, generally; the only exception is Self-Destruct, which lets it nuke a non-Ghost/Rock/Steel Pokemon for massive damage; this is best used when Snorlax is on :
-Curse
-Body Slam/Return
-Rest
-Sleep Talk/Earthquake/Crunch
Nature: Careful
EVs: 144 HP/188 Def/176 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat

or
-Return/Body Slam/Double-Edge
-Pursuit/Crunch
-Earthquake
-Fire Punch
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk/88 Def/168 SDef
Item: Choice Band
Ability: Thick Fat

or
-Return/Body Slam
-Pursuit/Crunch
-Earthquake
-Fire Punch/Crunch
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Def/4 SDef
Item: Assault Vest
Ability: Thick Fat

Can you prove why Snorlax and Walrein work well together? I highly doubt they do because of their shared Fighting weakness.
In all honesty I'm looking for relevancy in Walrein. He's my all time favorite pokemon. The only 2 that come close are Blastoise and Venasaur. I just wanna know if there's something there for Walrein, if there is a hidden terror inside of him. Could he have a chance on a competitive team?

PlatinumDude

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Posted May 30th, 2020
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In all honesty I'm looking for relevancy in Walrein. He's my all time favorite pokemon. The only 2 that come close are Blastoise and Venasaur. I just wanna know if there's something there for Walrein, if there is a hidden terror inside of him. Could he have a chance on a competitive team?
Simply put, no. The nerf to weather mechanics (perma-weather abilities like Sand Stream and Snow Warning) in Gen VI hurt the stalling Walrein set's usefulness, as permanent hail was what made it effective on dedicated hail teams. And speaking of dedicated hail teams, they're practically nonexistent because Snow Warning now lasts 5 turns (8 with Icy Rock).

Seen February 1st, 2015
Posted January 30th, 2015
9 posts
8.3 Years
Simply put, no. The nerf to weather mechanics (perma-weather abilities like Sand Stream and Snow Warning) in Gen VI hurt the stalling Walrein set's usefulness, as permanent hail was what made it effective on dedicated hail teams. And speaking of dedicated hail teams, they're practically nonexistent because Snow Warning now lasts 5 turns (8 with Icy Rock).
What would you suggest as a good water type with plenty of use and power in today's competitive scene?

PlatinumDude

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Seen July 31st, 2020
Posted May 30th, 2020
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What would you suggest as a good water type with plenty of use and power in today's competitive scene?
Water Pokemon to turn to are Azumarill, (Mega) Slowbro, (Mega) Gyarados, Keldeo, Wash Rotom and Starmie:

Azumarill:
-Waterfall
-Play Rough
-Aqua Jet
-Knock Off/Superpower
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 164 HP/252 Atk/92 Spe (Choice Band) or 240 HP/252 Atk/16 SDef (Assault Vest)
Item: Choice Band/Assault Vest
Ability: Huge Power

or
-Belly Drum
-Aqua Jet
-Play Rough
-Knock Off
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 92 HP/252 Atk/164 Spe
Item: Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power

Slowbro:
-Calm Mind
-Scald
-Psyshock
-Slack Off
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP/80 Def/176 SDef
Item: Slowbronite
Ability: Regenerator

or
-Scald
-Psyshock/Fire Blast/Ice Beam/Foul Play
-Thunder Wave/Toxic
-Slack Off
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP/232 Def/24 SDef
Item: Leftovers/Slowbronite
Ability: Regenerator

Gyarados:
-Dragon Dance
-Waterfall/Earthquake
-Crunch
-Earthquake/Taunt/Substitute
Nature: Adamant/Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate

or
-Waterfall
-Thunder Wave/Dragon Tail/Roar
-Rest
-Sleep Talk
Nature: Impish
EVs: 248 HP/116 Def/136 SDef/8 Spe
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate

or
-Dragon Dance
-Waterfall
-Bounce
-Substitute/Taunt
Nature: Adamant/Jolly
EVs: 88 HP/220 Atk/4 Def/196 Spe
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate

Keldeo:
-Substitute
-Calm Mind
-Scald
-Secret Sword
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Leftovers

or
-Hydro Pump
-Secret Sword
-Scald
-Icy Wind/Hidden Power (Electric)
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SAtk/4 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Choice Specs/Choice Scarf

Wash Rotom:
-Volt Switch
-Hydro Pump
-Will-o-Wisp
-Pain Split
Nature: Bold/Calm
EVs: 248 HP/216 Def/44 Spe (Bold) or 248 HP/216 SDef/44 Spe (Calm)
Item: Leftovers

Starmie:
-Scald
-Rapid Spin
-Reflect Type
-Recover
Nature: Timid
EVs: 248 HP/16 Def/244 Spe
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure

or
-Hydro Pump
-Psyshock/Thunderbolt
-Ice Beam
-Rapid Spin
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SAtk/4 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure/Analytic

Polar Spectrum

I'm still here; watching. Waiting.

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Seen May 29th, 2017
Posted March 21st, 2017
1,663 posts
8.9 Years
If someone tells you that your favorite pokemon has no possible viability competitively, you shouldn't just accept it. The fallacy police can swoop in and tell you it's fallacious for reason of bandwagon or authority appeal fallacies if they speak softly and carry a big smogon copy paste, but you should just be ready to stick to your guns if you love the pokemon enough anyways.


Anywho.

Walrein.

You could try physical, it's got the bulk and sort of has the stabs. Invest in HP and split between Atk and Def; probably impish or adamant. Give it curse, to boost its attack and defense - if you take that route you could make it Brave, and run it on trick room team. The defense investment and curse will work nice to cover its rock and fighting weaknesses. With curse boosted stats, it can make very nice use of Aqua Tail (tutor in ORAS, not sure what your situation is, battle spot singles I hear?) and Ice Fang. Backing that up with possibly Crunch, Iron Tail, or Earthquake, and you could make a run of it. Have it hold leftovers for a longer life possibly, or a life orb for extra punch.

If you want to keep it special, make it modest or quiet to play the most on its higher sp atk since it has no special boosting moves. Obviously, HP and Sp Atk EV's. Also obviously you'll want Ice Beam, Surf OR scald, but not both. Signal Beam is a wild card coverage move, and Icy Wind can slow opponents you can't KO down for teammates. Check its hidden power type- it it has synergy with its other attack types, use hidden power on it. If you run all attacks on it, you could give it a vest, and make it exceptionally bulky. If you don't, and have the fourth move slot, give it rest - and have it hold that Chesto Berry.

Don't let someone tell you there's only one way to play the game, or that things you like can't be used though mate. C'mon. I'll post this again.

The Prism League is BACK BABY - we're operating in Sun / Moon now - come join up!

We're looking for Gym Leaders and Elite 4 members!

Paired with SkyBerries; the berries in the sky.

PlatinumDude

Nyeh?

Age 29
Male
Canada
Seen July 31st, 2020
Posted May 30th, 2020
12,958 posts
12.7 Years
If someone tells you that your favorite pokemon has no possible viability competitively, you shouldn't just accept it. The fallacy police can swoop in and tell you it's fallacious for reason of bandwagon or authority appeal fallacies if they speak softly and carry a big smogon copy paste, but you should just be ready to stick to your guns if you love the pokemon enough anyways.


Anywho.

Walrein.

You could try physical, it's got the bulk and sort of has the stabs. Invest in HP and split between Atk and Def; probably impish or adamant. Give it curse, to boost its attack and defense - if you take that route you could make it Brave, and run it on trick room team. The defense investment and curse will work nice to cover its rock and fighting weaknesses. With curse boosted stats, it can make very nice use of Aqua Tail (tutor in ORAS, not sure what your situation is, battle spot singles I hear?) and Ice Fang. Backing that up with possibly Crunch, Iron Tail, or Earthquake, and you could make a run of it. Have it hold leftovers for a longer life possibly, or a life orb for extra punch.

If you want to keep it special, make it modest or quiet to play the most on its higher sp atk since it has no special boosting moves. Obviously, HP and Sp Atk EV's. Also obviously you'll want Ice Beam, Surf OR scald, but not both. Signal Beam is a wild card coverage move, and Icy Wind can slow opponents you can't KO down for teammates. Check its hidden power type- it it has synergy with its other attack types, use hidden power on it. If you run all attacks on it, you could give it a vest, and make it exceptionally bulky. If you don't, and have the fourth move slot, give it rest - and have it hold that Chesto Berry.

Don't let someone tell you there's only one way to play the game, or that things you like can't be used though mate. C'mon. I'll post this again.

Walrein's Attack is lower than its Special Attack, so I'd rather not waste the higher stat. Walrein is highly ineffective at using Curse because of its bad defensive typing. And for Curse sets, maximum special bulk is preferred (252 HP/252 Special Defense), as you're boosting your physical stats anyways.

As I already outlined above, Stallrein is the best way to use Walrein because of the incredible stalling potential in hail, even if the weather mechanics got nerfed.

Polar Spectrum

I'm still here; watching. Waiting.

Non-binary
[Birthplace banned for centralizing childhood]
Seen May 29th, 2017
Posted March 21st, 2017
1,663 posts
8.9 Years
I could respond to that in kind, but I decline. I'm sure the OP as well as myself thank you for your suggestions and perspective.
The Prism League is BACK BABY - we're operating in Sun / Moon now - come join up!

We're looking for Gym Leaders and Elite 4 members!

Paired with SkyBerries; the berries in the sky.

Nah

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Seen 11 Hours Ago
Posted 19 Hours Ago
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Stallrein in hail is arguably the "best" way to use it, but Hail is also a huge rattata to get up and maintain, not to mention that the only two hail summoners have an assload of weaknesses....

Some sorta tank set with max HP investment, Leftovers, and Thick Fat would be the best alternative I can think of. Problem would be which offensive stat to invest in (I don't think it has to stats to go mixed).....Walrein's movepool ain't so good. Gets Frost Breath via TM though which could be fun.

But as for partners, stuff to resist Fighting, Electric, and Grass would be good places to start. Snorlax wouldn't be a terribly good partner in that case since it's really slow and is also weak to Fighting.

First off, I would like to ask: which battle format do you want to use these Pokemon for? Singles? Doubles? Triples? Rotation?
I think he mentioned singles in an earlier post.
Nah ンン
“No, I... I have to be strong. Everyone expects me to."
Male
Seen 1 Week Ago
Posted June 28th, 2022
7,210 posts
15.9 Years
If someone tells you that your favorite pokemon has no possible viability competitively, you shouldn't just accept it. The fallacy police can swoop in and tell you it's fallacious for reason of bandwagon or authority appeal fallacies if they speak softly and carry a big smogon copy paste, but you should just be ready to stick to your guns if you love the pokemon enough anyways.


Anywho.

Walrein.

You could try physical, it's got the bulk and sort of has the stabs. Invest in HP and split between Atk and Def; probably impish or adamant. Give it curse, to boost its attack and defense - if you take that route you could make it Brave, and run it on trick room team. The defense investment and curse will work nice to cover its rock and fighting weaknesses. With curse boosted stats, it can make very nice use of Aqua Tail (tutor in ORAS, not sure what your situation is, battle spot singles I hear?) and Ice Fang. Backing that up with possibly Crunch, Iron Tail, or Earthquake, and you could make a run of it. Have it hold leftovers for a longer life possibly, or a life orb for extra punch.

If you want to keep it special, make it modest or quiet to play the most on its higher sp atk since it has no special boosting moves. Obviously, HP and Sp Atk EV's. Also obviously you'll want Ice Beam, Surf OR scald, but not both. Signal Beam is a wild card coverage move, and Icy Wind can slow opponents you can't KO down for teammates. Check its hidden power type- it it has synergy with its other attack types, use hidden power on it. If you run all attacks on it, you could give it a vest, and make it exceptionally bulky. If you don't, and have the fourth move slot, give it rest - and have it hold that Chesto Berry.

Don't let someone tell you there's only one way to play the game, or that things you like can't be used though mate. C'mon. I'll post this again.

Excuse me sage, im using koffing, fletchinder, cacnea and omanyte in OU and keep losing, i really love them can you help me?
†Kill the unicorn
Just to have its horn
Soon he's just a fantasy†

Polar Spectrum

I'm still here; watching. Waiting.

Non-binary
[Birthplace banned for centralizing childhood]
Seen May 29th, 2017
Posted March 21st, 2017
1,663 posts
8.9 Years
Excuse me sage, im using koffing, fletchinder, cacnea and omanyte in OU and keep losing, i really love them can you help me?


Oh hey, look you're even in that one as a lil' Mime Jr. If your success is continuously held out of your grasp tho young grasshopper; you may want to consider a change of scenery in order to achieve victory with beloved 'mons.
The Prism League is BACK BABY - we're operating in Sun / Moon now - come join up!

We're looking for Gym Leaders and Elite 4 members!

Paired with SkyBerries; the berries in the sky.