Level Up! You are now Level 25!

Started by Dragon March 13th, 2015 7:44 AM
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Dragon

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Posted October 24th, 2022
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I was wondering what you guys think about a general level up system, whenever you play games such as MMOs, or any other game that has a level up system (besides pokemon).

First of all, do you like the concept of "leveling up"? Does it teach you things, beyond the aspects on how to actually play the game? Because, some people have been wondering that, as you level up, your knowledge and experience also kind of "levels up" with the game, as the character in question goes stronger. However, with my experience, some games with a level up system require me to grind so much just to meet with the game's standard expectations, and.. sometimes I'm just a little iffy about that.

And that brings me to my next point - do you feel that a level up system isn't quite necessary for games that come to mind? I've heard that sometimes, people don't like the level-up system in WoW, and hey, sometimes I don't really much care for the level up system in Leauge of Legends.

Well, just to re-literate the topic of this thread... What do you think of a level-up system? Do you feel that they are unnecessary for particular games that come to mind? Would you say that leveling up is worth it in most, or just in few cases? Any other thoughts?


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Sylphiel

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Seen March 28th, 2023
Posted January 9th, 2023
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I honestly don't mind such a system, since levels can and do give people something to strive for. Although in the case of MMOs, the main problem isn't so much the concept of levels, it's that the companies seem to prefer putting all the good content at endgame, so gaining levels could be seen as just some extraneous process getting in the way of reaching what the game is actually about. Some people just want to be able to do what the MMO is known for - usually dungeons and raiding, I guess - without having to spend a few days leveling up their character just to meet the requirement. I don't blame them, really. Once the initial experience of a game is gone, then any subsequent leveling up is just...work, really.

Although it's good for some games. One that comes to mind instantly is Diablo 3. Used to be that you leveled, and then...once you hit the max level, that was it. You just ground out the hardest difficulty until your eyes bled for that gear that made your character only slightly stronger for the chance to be able to grind out the next act for more gear. There was no noticeable progression by then. Then they added paragon levels, which are basically extra levels after you hit the official limit, and...arguably, that helped to make the game better. Instead of just grinding out gear, you get to see your character still able to grow stronger, and the levels are a nice indication of that.

Sometimes it's the simple things like that that help, haha.

Personally: I don't mind leveling systems in games. Because like I said, it's basically a nice number to show what you can strive for. Or at least give a nice marker as to when you can do things. "Oh you should be at least this level to fight this boss" is a lot simpler than "oh you need this and that and whole long list of things". Yeah. Or maybe I'm just used to such a system, and I've pretty much just adopted a "well that's just how it goes" mentality.

Foxrally

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I'll say this - grinding sucks. Being a former (and still now, but to a lesser extend) avid MMO player, I can't tell you the hours I've wasted on pointless grinding of mobs in a single area, or grinding of crafting/farming XP. While leveling up itself is exciting, since it opens up new features, abilities and possibly locations for your character, it can be extremely boring to get to. My dislike for grinding is probably one of the reasons I play Smite a lot - it's a MOBA and therefore not grind-y at all.

One of the best MMOs I've played is DCUO (DC Universe Online). It has a leveling system, but that is based more on missions completed rather than mindless grinding. The storylines up to level 30 are enticing and genuinely interesting, and are combined with amazing voice acting and fun gameplay.

On the other hand, there are some very grind-y games that have I have still enjoyed, such as Wakfu and Toontown. One game that I absolutely DESPISE for its horrendous quests and leveling system is Eden Eternal. Seriously, screw that game and send it to hell. The quests are repetitive, the storyline sounds like a school assignment, and the leveling is oh-so-slow.

Games like Age of Wushu that contain no leveling system are a mix for me. While they remove the grinding, they ultimately remove the best way for a player to determine their power and ranking against others - though most of these games have other systems to compromise.
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I have nothing against levelling systems persay. They're a tried-and-true method of developing your character in video games that lack a difficulty setting and get progressively more difficult as time goes by - typically RPGs, of course - and they work fairly well in practice...although in games like Resonance of Fate, where levels mean absolutely nothing at all, I do wonder why they bother including them.

Sometimes I think levelling systems are included just for the sake of being included - when strategy and tactics are more important, they often feel redundant to me. A levelling system, to me, should go hand-in-hand with every other system to indicate character progression...like in Disgaea, where you need to be both insanely highly levelled and have equipment with stats in the billions in order to overcome stronger bosses. Levels help you get stronger, but they're not everything.

What I strongly dislike is that any game that utilizes a level-up system automatically starts calling itself an RPG, though. I wouldn't classify games like Borderlands or even Mass Effect as RPGs...and yet they use a level-up system, which automatically qualifies them as RPGs apparently. It bothers me to see terms like "Shooter RPG" floating around; it's a complete contradiction, and the level-up system isn't really needed to make it work. Sure, it helps you develop your characters, but levels aren't absolutely 100% necessary to do that: you could just as easily get skill points for completing missions, without the levelling aspect - it worked for Final Fantasy XIII which, despite its flaws, had a solid enough development system in the Crystarium. It might work well enough in the game, but it feels out of place.

Satoshi Ookami

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I want it, I must have it, I require it.
Without levels, the game feels empty. It gives me reason to actually grind in the game =D
Optimal level cap is 99 imo just to add.
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Lycanthropy

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I think a level system should only call the levels levels if they are of some direct use, like bonuses to stats as in Pokémon games. If it's just showing the amount of effort you put in the game, I consider it more like a rank.

Levelling is a motivation to play the game, you see yourself (or your characters) slowly improve themselves. This means the level cap shouldn't be too low. During Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones I noticed myself ditching some characters from the team because they reached the cap. This made it unable for them to improve and using them makes them 'steal' experience from other characters.

A level system isn't necessary as system for stat improvement. Final Fantasy II, for example has a system that improves the stats you make use of, giving you the ability for a completele customization for your characters. This is interesting to play with too.
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Qibli

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Generally level system helps balance the game and prevent player progressing on a hard level zones. But when your level 6 and take down a level 7 enemy you can sure take down the foe and get exponential EXP to level. I find grinding bit tiresome, but some quest offers better EXP as reward for completing hard task
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Nolafus

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I like it in some games, but loathe it in others.

It makes a lot of sense to have some sort of leveling up system in MMORPG's like WoW, Runescape, and the like. I spent many hours chopping down trees in Runescape so I could finally chop down the highest level trees and making a fortune selling the logs. I never did get to that point, though.

Anyway, it works in MMORPG's because you feel accomplished after reaching each new level. When you walk around as the highest level in sight, there's a bit of pride that comes with it. You feel powerful, and it makes the hours upon hours of grinding worth it when you beat the biggest monsters in the game.

However, in games like LoL, I never really saw a point in it. Yeah, you did feel accomplished after finally hitting that level thirty mark, but it was more tedious and annoying than anything. I didn't find that much excitement in unlocking the new summoner spells as I level up, simply because I felt like I should have had them already. It's useful for preventing people from jumping into the ranked system right away, but I'd rather just have it open and let all of those people fall down to cardboard seven, haha.
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El Héroe Oscuro

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Although I don't have the most experience with League of Legends, I actually love the leveling up system for that game. As it's such a competitive online game, I really dig the sense of urgency that the game creates as the wider the gap of levels is between teams the easier it is for the game becomes lopsided. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, as it just means that the losing team needs to level up quickly and the winning team needs to quickly tighten its grip and put the nail in the coffin. There aren't a lot of games out there that can recreate that kind of excitement.
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I think that Leveling systems can add to a game, or make it way more tedious. I see this used well in RPGs a lot. You want to get more powerful, you want to make it to level 99 or whatever the max is, you want to be able to kill those trash enemies in one single move, and you feel very satisfied when you do. Additionally, it's a way that the player can feel powerful, especially when they make it to the max level and can go take down end game bosses quickly.

I also love how it's used in Dota 2 and LoL for the exact reasons Matt stated. I think it definitely adds to the overall experience.

But a leveling system can make a game FAR more tedious if it isn't properly balenced. In almost every MMO I've played going up one level is so insanely tedious that it just isn't fun. Some may find the large amounts of grinding that you have to do part of the fun, but I just don't find it any fun. It feels like too much work with not enough payoff. Though that may just be me.

Sonata

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I really like games that don't have a conventional leveling system such as Final Fantasy X and Final Fantasy XIII. You can't just look at your character and say "Oh yeah they're level 76. So I should be able to beat such and such with a little strategy." Though I'd love to play an RPG style game without a leveling system but instead just use items, in game currency and in game feats to "power up", I can't say that I've ever heard of one. People like being able to see themselves progress and have a physical representation of how they stand up to other people/enemies. A game shouldn't have half of its gameplay based around grinding up to a certain point just to beat something so you can do some more grinding.