Moveset Help & Other Questions (FAQ in first post) Page 7

Started by Zeffy March 22nd, 2015 5:47 AM
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PlatinumDude

Nyeh?

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Posted May 30th, 2020
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I just got my diancie and think I got a decent one on my second reset
Nature - naive
According to online iv calculator 3 ivs are 30-31 (hp - special atk - special defense)
Other iv are atk 10-11, defense 14-15, speed 22-23

Good enough? Or should I keep trying?
Keep trying. Good Attack and Speed IVs are important too. A 31 Speed IV is highly preferred so Mega Diancie outspeeds as much as possible.

Nah

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sri has this stall Mega Charizard X team....dunno the details of it but I think it's pretty cool
Nah ンン
“No, I... I have to be strong. Everyone expects me to."

Anti

return of the king

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this question is awfully broad. i am not up-to-date with the metagame right now, but both zards have always had pretty diverse builds, especially x. zard teams tend to be really anal about hazard control, but they can do a lot.

x can work on literally any archetype except rain. nah mentioned zard x stall, which is more of an xy thing but remains functional nonetheless, and given its utility offensively (and even defensively), it can fit on different variations of offense. it's become pretty chic to pair it with serperior on more aggressive builds since zard is a magnet for the stuff that serperior can use as the starting point for its contrary leaf storm avalanche.

as for y, it's a little less stylistically diverse, but i would take platdude's list with a grain of salt. (birdspam is dead and has been dead for many months, every team needs a rocker and a bisharp check anyway, etc.) it is paired with pursuit a lot though, but zard y teams are going to be putting a lot of pressure on altaria in particular, and it's nice to have some good pivots b/c it's slow enough to be easily revenge killed or otherwise pressured by offensive pokemon.
Why are the beautiful sick and divided like myself?

PlatinumDude

Nyeh?

Age 29
Male
Canada
Seen July 31st, 2020
Posted May 30th, 2020
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12.7 Years
this question is awfully broad. i am not up-to-date with the metagame right now, but both zards have always had pretty diverse builds, especially x. zard teams tend to be really anal about hazard control, but they can do a lot.

x can work on literally any archetype except rain. nah mentioned zard x stall, which is more of an xy thing but remains functional nonetheless, and given its utility offensively (and even defensively), it can fit on different variations of offense. it's become pretty chic to pair it with serperior on more aggressive builds since zard is a magnet for the stuff that serperior can use as the starting point for its contrary leaf storm avalanche.

as for y, it's a little less stylistically diverse, but i would take platdude's list with a grain of salt. (birdspam is dead and has been dead for many months, every team needs a rocker and a bisharp check anyway, etc.) it is paired with pursuit a lot though, but zard y teams are going to be putting a lot of pressure on altaria in particular, and it's nice to have some good pivots b/c it's slow enough to be easily revenge killed or otherwise pressured by offensive pokemon.
Well, I was a bit used to the X/Y meta when I came up with that Charizard Y team suggestions, but w/e.

Anyway, as Anti mentioned, Mega Altaria is a big roadblock to both Charizards, as it resists most of its commonly used moves. Excadrill is a nice teammate (as I already suggested) for dealing with it, and also provides Rapid Spin support. Choice Band/Swords Dance Scizor also handles Mega Altaria that lack Flamethrower/Fire Blast; the former set in particular is a good offensive pivot to get Charizard in safely with a slow U-turn.

Gandhi Savage

OJAMA DELTA HURRICANE

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Garchomp's role evolved a lot from when I started playing (BW2) till when I stopped in early ORAS. It was almost always used as an SD Sweeper when I'd come up against it, and now it seems like it's used way more in a Defensive Stealth Rock set which I find pretty strange, I've never tried it though. I prefer an offensive Chomp though, and it's Mega can be amazing wallbreaker, if it didn't get a Speed nerf it'd most likely be Ubers, it'd be a monster lol.
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Personally I run my Chomp as a dual role pokemon. Swords dance, stealth rock, Earthquake, and dragon claw.

Whenever I see a garchomp in a team I always send out a pokemon that will outspeed and OHKO it, because it's popular as a lead right now. They seem to have this combination going with rough skin and rocky helmet. Really great when going against life orb brave bird.
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Posted November 30th, 2016
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Okay, someone needs to explain this one to me:

This battle I was in had a Sylveon that completely devastated my team. The odd thing is that this Sylveon does nothing but spam Hyper Voice and does more than 50% damage to any Pokemon it wants. I have a Lapras with 31 IV and 252 EV to both HP and Special defense, this thing did 55% of it's total HP to it. Even against a Mega Freaking Audino with 31 IV, 252 EV to HP and 200 EV to Special Defense, it still did more damage than 50% of it's total HP, Then I sent a Gengar, still did 89% of it's max HP despite being resistant to Fairy moves.

So tell me, what happened? And before anyone tells me that it's a Choice Spec'd Sylveon, I promise that I will make a Sylveon with 31 IV 252 EV Special attack with Modest Nature right now with a choice spec, and it will NOT do nearly that much damage to my same exact Pokemon; just to prove them wrong.

Emboar

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Okay, someone needs to explain this one to me:

This battle I was in had a Sylveon that completely devastated my team. The odd thing is that this Sylveon does nothing but spam Hyper Voice and does more than 50% damage to any Pokemon it wants. I have a Lapras with 31 IV and 252 EV to both HP and Special defense, this thing did 55% of it's total HP to it. Even against a Mega Freaking Audino with 31 IV, 252 EV to HP and 200 EV to Special Defense, it still did more damage than 50% of it's total HP, Then I sent a Gengar, still did 89% of it's max HP despite being resistant to Fairy moves.

So tell me, what happened? And before anyone tells me that it's a Choice Spec'd Sylveon, I promise that I will make a Sylveon with 31 IV 252 EV Special attack with Modest Nature right now with a choice spec, and it will NOT do nearly that much damage to my same exact Pokemon; just to prove them wrong.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Lapras: 229-270 (49.3 - 58.1%)

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Mega Audino: 195-231 (47.5 - 56.3%) -- 82.8% chance to 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Gengar: 197-232 (76 - 89.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

lol
Male
Seen December 14th, 2016
Posted November 30th, 2016
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252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Lapras: 229-270 (49.3 - 58.1%)

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Mega Audino: 195-231 (47.5 - 56.3%) -- 82.8% chance to 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Gengar: 197-232 (76 - 89.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

lol
1. If this is true, why doesn't everyone have this Pokemon?

2. Making a Sylveon to test this theory.

3. How do you stop this Sylveon other than Physical Pokemon that can outspeed and OHKO? (Trick Question, most Pokemon can't OHKO a Sylveon with certain builds.)

Nah

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1. If this is true, why doesn't everyone have this Pokemon?

2. Making a Sylveon to test this theory.

3. How do you stop this Sylveon other than Physical Pokemon that can outspeed and OHKO? (Trick Question, most Pokemon can't OHKO a Sylveon with certain builds.)
Despite the seemingly absurd power of Specs Sylveon, it's slow, and there's still a number of Pokemon that can handle those Pixilated Hyper Voices and threaten it:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 164 SpD Mega Scizor: 119-141 (34.6 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
96+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 308-366 (78.5 - 93.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 128-151 (42.5 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 606-714 (154.5 - 182.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 144 SpD Mega Venusaur: 105-125 (28.8 - 34.3%) -- 3.4% chance to 3HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jirachi: 101-119 (25 - 29.4%) -- guaranteed 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 66-78 (20.4 - 24.1%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

There's more than that, like Ferrothorn and Amoonguss too. And none of those are uncommon. While some of them do have to watch out for Psyshock or Hidden Power Fire, Sylveon being locked into one move because of Specs makes it easier to deal with. Not to mention that Heatran, one of the most commonly used Pokemon, doesn't care about those 2 moves either (and running HP Ground makes it lose to Ferrothorn and Scizor).
Nah ンン
“No, I... I have to be strong. Everyone expects me to."

Anti

return of the king

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Seen March 6th, 2022
Posted January 17th, 2022
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1. If this is true, why doesn't everyone have this Pokemon?

2. Making a Sylveon to test this theory.

3. How do you stop this Sylveon other than Physical Pokemon that can outspeed and OHKO? (Trick Question, most Pokemon can't OHKO a Sylveon with certain builds.)
Well, this is a pretty good example of how a Pokemon can seem better on paper than it is in practice. Sylveon is threatening, but people don't use it for a variety of reasons. It is very slow and physically frail, so getting it into a battle safely and firing off its attacks is easier said than done. It just isn't adept at pushing tempo since so many Pokemon can force it out. (Think Heatran, Ferrothorn, Charizard X, Charizard Y, Talonflame, Venusaur, Excadrill, Metagross, Victini, Scizor, Chansey, Gengar, Lopunny, Bisharp, Hoopa-Unbound, Volcarona, Magnezone...) Being a slow choice-locked Pokemon is no fun. Also, offensive teams that can't switch into it get to choose what Sylveon kills, which limits its impact. Sylveon is only getting in safely once or twice per game against stronger offenses, but if it manages to come in on a non-boosted Thundurus but the offense has an Azumarill at 10%, Sylveon's huge damage output is going to be irrelevant.

In other words, you stop Sylveon by putting pressure on it, which is actually pretty easy to do. When it gets in, depending on your team structure, there are ways to check--and exploit--Sylveon and its presence. A lot of bad Pokemon have very impressive damage calculations. Which, by the way, are accurate. I'm not sure what "if this is true" is supposed to mean lol, but if you doubt their accuracy, look up the damage formula and plug it in yourself. Sylveon hits like a truck. It's just held back in other aspects.
Why are the beautiful sick and divided like myself?

Zeffy

g'day

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Seen December 1st, 2022
Posted January 30th, 2021
6,395 posts
14.1 Years
i've had much experience using choice specs sylveon. it annihilates people who are unprepared for an attacking forme of sylveon, but otherwise it just underperforms vs well built teams. echoing what anti said that it has great attacking potential with pixilate hyper voice, but it lacks an actual "push" to be an amazing offensive staple that can rival those other special fairies.
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Posted November 30th, 2016
305 posts
9.8 Years
These are fair and reasonable arguments. However, there is one small fact you all forgot. In a team of 6, how can you carry ALL of the pokemon you need for threats? Not to mention that all these so called "counters" have massive flaws that can easily be dealt with before sending Sylveon out to ruin your day. Not to mention that in a 3v3 battle, predicting whether your opponent will send their Sylveon out or not is a frustrating feat. Lets break down the counters, shall we?

Mega Scizor:
I have one of these, but everyone seems to have HP ice or Fire, so Scizor seems to go down to just about any prepared special attacker, or any physical attacker with Fire Fang or Fire Punch. If I had one of these in my Party, My opponent will most likely have a Pokemon with a fire move to rid of this pest before sending Sylveon out.

Metagross/Mega Metagross:
Knock Off, enough said. Everyone seems to have a Pokemon with this move.

Mega Venosaur:
Talonflame + Brave Bird + Gale Wings. That's it, I'm done.

Jirachi:
1. I don't have one.
2. This Pokemon is banned in Rated Battles.

Heatran:
I have one, and possibly a good counter. But that 4x weakness to ground. . . . Another common coverage type.

Ferrothorn:
1. Same problem as Scizor.
2. Don't have one.

Amoongus:
This is a really sorry counter. It just plain sucks, and so many other Pokemon can easily kill it off. I like the Mega Venosaur idea 100x better.

Charizard X or Y
You are taking up a mega slot for Sylveon? Really?

Talonflame:
Rock moves or Stealth Rock .
I have a Talonflame, but people know better by now.

Excadrill:
This Pokemon has always been a joke to me.

Victini:
Same Problem as Jirachi.

Chansey:
Toxic.

Gengar:
Read my earlier post, this thing just wrecked a Gengar,

Lopunny:
Srsly?

Bisharp:
Who trains a Bisharp?

Hoopa:
Another banned Legendary.

Volcarona:
Left in the landfill with Charizard and Talonflame.

Magnezone:
Shares it's grave with Heatran.

PlatinumDude

Nyeh?

Age 29
Male
Canada
Seen July 31st, 2020
Posted May 30th, 2020
12,958 posts
12.7 Years
These are fair and reasonable arguments. However, there is one small fact you all forgot. In a team of 6, how can you carry ALL of the pokemon you need for threats? Not to mention that all these so called "counters" have massive flaws that can easily be dealt with before sending Sylveon out to ruin your day. Not to mention that in a 3v3 battle, predicting whether your opponent will send their Sylveon out or not is a frustrating feat. Lets break down the counters, shall we?

Mega Scizor:
I have one of these, but everyone seems to have HP ice or Fire, so Scizor seems to go down to just about any prepared special attacker, or any physical attacker with Fire Fang or Fire Punch. If I had one of these in my Party, My opponent will most likely have a Pokemon with a fire move to rid of this pest before sending Sylveon out.

Metagross/Mega Metagross:
Knock Off, enough said. Everyone seems to have a Pokemon with this move.

Mega Venosaur:
Talonflame + Brave Bird + Gale Wings. That's it, I'm done.

Jirachi:
1. I don't have one.
2. This Pokemon is banned in Rated Battles.

Heatran:
I have one, and possibly a good counter. But that 4x weakness to ground. . . . Another common coverage type.

Ferrothorn:
1. Same problem as Scizor.
2. Don't have one.

Amoongus:
This is a really sorry counter. It just plain sucks, and so many other Pokemon can easily kill it off. I like the Mega Venosaur idea 100x better.

Charizard X or Y
You are taking up a mega slot for Sylveon? Really?

Talonflame:
Rock moves or Stealth Rock .
I have a Talonflame, but people know better by now.

Excadrill:
This Pokemon has always been a joke to me.

Victini:
Same Problem as Jirachi.

Chansey:
Toxic.

Gengar:
Read my earlier post, this thing just wrecked a Gengar,

Lopunny:
Srsly?

Bisharp:
Who trains a Bisharp?

Hoopa:
Another banned Legendary.

Volcarona:
Left in the landfill with Charizard and Talonflame.

Magnezone:
Shares it's grave with Heatran.
Mega slots taken up for a sake to support/counter a single Pokemon isn't a good argument, IMO. A good portion of these Megas are even good in their own right, as seen with the Charizard forms.

Bisharp is only a check to Sylveon; it's not a counter if it can't switch to any one of its moves, particularly Hyper Voice:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 375-442 (137.8 - 162.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

However, Assault Vest variants can:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 192 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Bisharp: 250-295 (78.3 - 92.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Learn more about the difference between checks and counters here: http://www.smogon.com/smog/issue32/checks-and-counters

Anti

return of the king

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Seen March 6th, 2022
Posted January 17th, 2022
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15.8 Years
These are fair and reasonable arguments. However, there is one small fact you all forgot. In a team of 6, how can you carry ALL of the pokemon you need for threats? Not to mention that all these so called "counters" have massive flaws that can easily be dealt with before sending Sylveon out to ruin your day. Not to mention that in a 3v3 battle, predicting whether your opponent will send their Sylveon out or not is a frustrating feat. Lets break down the counters, shall we?

[insert list]
This isn't how actual matches play out though. To use one of the more glaring examples, Scizor's weakness to Fire doesn't magically invalidate that it's a check to Sylveon. No Pokemon matches up well with everything--that's what team support is for. And that's sort of the thing: you mention that Sylveon's teammates can clear the way for it, but the opponent can make plays too, and "just kill Scizor with a Fire move" is quite a simplistic assertion when any Scizor team is going to have at least one check to Heatran, Zards, Talon, etc. It's actually very difficult to make Sylveon a win condition because it is so slow and easily revenge killed (see my previous post + what Zeffy said), and many of the Pokemon you brush off in your list are actually quite good, like Excadrill, Lopunny (hope it goes without saying that I was speaking of its mega evolution), and especially Bisharp.

Sylveon doesn't suck or anything, but Hyper Voice's impressive damage output does not necessarily translate to dominance. It rarely does.
Why are the beautiful sick and divided like myself?

Nah

Age 30
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In a team of 6, how can you carry ALL of the pokemon you need for threats?
The unfortunate reality is that you can't truly prepare for every single threat in the metagame. You can come close, but....
Nah ンン
“No, I... I have to be strong. Everyone expects me to."

Metagross/Mega Metagross:
Knock Off, enough said. Everyone seems to have a Pokemon with this move.
js saying tho, knock off isn't boosted against mega pokemons because of their stone item.
also fyi mega metagross lives a knock off from most relevant and powerful users including weavile and bisharp, and it is plenty powerful to ohko them in return.

PlatinumDude

Nyeh?

Age 29
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Seen July 31st, 2020
Posted May 30th, 2020
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12.7 Years
Hey everyone, I was wondering what the best nature for Electivire would be and why? Thank you for your advice and input, it is greatly appreciated!!! :)
Jolly for pure physical sets, and Naive for mixed sets. Electivire is capable of both roles:
-Wild Charge
-Earthquake
-Ice Punch
-Hidden Power (Grass)/Meditate/Power-Up Punch
Nature: Naive/Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk/4 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb

or
-Thunderbolt
-Flamethrower
-Earthquake
-Hidden Power (Grass)
Nature: Naive
EVs: 4 Atk/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb

The extra Speed from Naive/Jolly is useful, especially when you're using Motor Drive, as Electivire isn't that fast.

Seen April 23rd, 2016
Posted April 3rd, 2016
62 posts
8.7 Years
Jolly for pure physical sets, and Naive for mixed sets. Electivire is capable of both roles:
-Wild Charge
-Earthquake
-Ice Punch
-Hidden Power (Grass)/Meditate/Power-Up Punch
Nature: Naive/Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk/4 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb

or
-Thunderbolt
-Flamethrower
-Earthquake
-Hidden Power (Grass)
Nature: Naive
EVs: 4 Atk/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb

The extra Speed from Naive/Jolly is useful, especially when you're using Motor Drive, as Electivire isn't that fast.
I understand. However, between the two natures would you say that it would be better to decrease Sp. attack or defense? Do any of the two have any use to Electivire really and if so, how? Thank you!

PlatinumDude

Nyeh?

Age 29
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Canada
Seen July 31st, 2020
Posted May 30th, 2020
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I understand. However, between the two natures would you say that it would be better to decrease Sp. attack or defense? Do any of the two have any use to Electivire really and if so, how? Thank you!
If you're not using special attacks, use Jolly. If Electivire is mixed (uses both physical and special attacks), use Naive.