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Old April 3rd, 2005 (12:37 PM).
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Spike Razzor Spike Razzor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion Heart
No, HP Ice on Arcy can stop more than just Salamence.

Get on Smogon and battle some real players.
Its can't use it to its advantage afterwards, stop arguing like you know something. Are you gonna HP Ice a ground type? No, cause Arcanine will faint after a STABed Quake. You gonna HP Ice Aerodactyl? No, cause its outspeeds you first, Slides, and then finishes you off.
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Old April 5th, 2005 (11:18 PM).
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It all depends on who you are against.

Arcanine is able to take a hit, and he can deal back some pretty nice damage.

In certain situations, letting a pokemon die to take off some HP, to allow for another pokemon to go for the kill is necessary, which is an area I can see Arcanine being used in.

Incase you didn't realize, Ice is SE against more than Ground, Arcanine has both the Speed and Special Attack to take on the Dragons, actually, I'm going to run the test now.

Max Sp.Atk Arc HP Ice against Salamence (Stock Standard, 217 Sp.Def):

Minimum Damage 87%
Average Damage 95%
Maximum Damage 103%

Note most people have no Sp.Def EV's, which makes a guarenteed OHKO.

Against Dragonite (Stock Standard, 257 Sp.Def):

Minimum Damage 74%
Average Damage 80%
Maximum Damage 87%

Even that's a 2HKO.

It'd definately scare the opponent off.

A stock standard Arcanine with 217 Def, is 2HKO'd by a Max Atk Salamence's EQ.

If you get lucky and are able to hit Sal after he's been weakened, Arcanine could make great use of his Sp.Atk, after all, it IS 328 with Nature.

How about Flamethrower/HP Ice/Crunch/Extremespeed.

I'd personally prefer Roar over Crunch though.
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Old April 5th, 2005 (11:23 PM).
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Or like my Toxicing Arcanine.

Arcanine (M) @ Quick Claw
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 140 Atk / 252 Spd / 118 SAtk
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Extremespeed
- Overheat
- Protect
- Toxic
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Old April 5th, 2005 (11:29 PM).
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Not bad, but I don't think Arcanine needs the Speed.

He has Extremespeed...

But a quick toxic could be nice.
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Old April 5th, 2005 (11:31 PM).
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That's to get in an Overheat or Toxic before it get's KO'ed.
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Old April 5th, 2005 (11:35 PM).
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I think with an EV re-adjustment, you could use that set quite well.

By EV adjustment I mean, it really doesn't need all that much Speed, or Attack... or even Sp.Atk :P

It could do with some defenses, some Speed to outrun the slower pokemon, enough Sp.Atk so it can break Subs, and enough Attack to finish pokemon who are getting low on health (Around 13%ish).

I would make an EV spread but I have a bit of a headache, the last few days have made me think too much >_<
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Old April 6th, 2005 (6:25 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion Heart
It all depends on who you are against.

Arcanine is able to take a hit, and he can deal back some pretty nice damage.

In certain situations, letting a pokemon die to take off some HP, to allow for another pokemon to go for the kill is necessary, which is an area I can see Arcanine being used in.

Incase you didn't realize, Ice is SE against more than Ground, Arcanine has both the Speed and Special Attack to take on the Dragons, actually, I'm going to run the test now.

Max Sp.Atk Arc HP Ice against Salamence (Stock Standard, 217 Sp.Def):

Minimum Damage 87%
Average Damage 95%
Maximum Damage 103%

Note most people have no Sp.Def EV's, which makes a guarenteed OHKO.

Against Dragonite (Stock Standard, 257 Sp.Def):

Minimum Damage 74%
Average Damage 80%
Maximum Damage 87%

Even that's a 2HKO.

It'd definately scare the opponent off.

A stock standard Arcanine with 217 Def, is 2HKO'd by a Max Atk Salamence's EQ.

If you get lucky and are able to hit Sal after he's been weakened, Arcanine could make great use of his Sp.Atk, after all, it IS 328 with Nature.

How about Flamethrower/HP Ice/Crunch/Extremespeed.

I'd personally prefer Roar over Crunch though.
CB Mence, dead, no matter what its Ev's are. Sorry Lion, you lose.
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Old April 6th, 2005 (6:29 PM).
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If a CB Mence decided to not predict a switch, and attempted to kill Arcanine, the opponent isn't to smart.

If it Quakes, I whip out Gengar, if it Slides, I whip out TTar and Dance.

Obviously, you don't lead with an Arcanine, it's best to lead with a pokemon you can setup.
Meaning, I will know Mence's set.

Sorry Spike, you lose.
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Old April 7th, 2005 (11:36 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion Heart
If a CB Mence decided to not predict a switch, and attempted to kill Arcanine, the opponent isn't to smart.

If it Quakes, I whip out Gengar, if it Slides, I whip out TTar and Dance.

Obviously, you don't lead with an Arcanine, it's best to lead with a pokemon you can setup.
Meaning, I will know Mence's set.

Sorry Spike, you lose.
You failed because you introduce a whole team now. Its between two Pokemon, not six. Mence over Arcanine a good 99.9 percent of the time. You cannot see a CB Mence coming so that nubby HP Ice Arc loses. You don't need to send bad rep because you failed, its just makes you seem lamer than you already are. Bad enough you whin and pretend you didn't battle me before, but then again, 5-0 my favour makes you look bad =\.
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Old April 7th, 2005 (6:14 PM).
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Pokemon battles are made up of more than 2 pokemon, for those of you who didn't know that, Spike.
No need to complain about the bad rep either, you deserved it.

I know I battled you once, I can't remember how the battle went it was within my 1st week of battling -_-;

You also changed Salamence to become a CBMence, who's to say it's not a DDMence?

Sal used DD, Arcy HP Iced.
Arcy ESd, Sal died.

1 on 1 it's possible for Arcanine to win.

Without CB, no dance, Arc still wins.

Sal used EQ, Arcy used HP Ice.
Arcy ESd. Sal died.

Now to get back on topic.

What about a Hyper Beaming Tyranitar?

Sub/Beam/Bolt/Crunch or Punch.

I think it could work out if you had another team member put the enemy to sleep or something.

Before Spike complains about the Beams any more than he already has, they are just an idea, we know they can make you lose out, but the extra power does come in handy.
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Old April 7th, 2005 (7:14 PM).
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HP Ice Arcanine isn't common, niether is CB Mence. Thought I would even the odds. This is how easy that Arc loses a battle, see how easy is loses.

Begin Turn #1
Arieru Eisu withdrew Ninjask!
Arieru Eisu sent out Raging Infurnus (Lv.100 Arcanine)!
Arcanine's Intimidate cuts Beautifly's Attack!
---------------------------------
Beautifly used Double-Edge!
(22% damage)
Beautifly is hit with recoil!
---------------------------------
End of turn #1
Metaleon's Beautifly: 259 HP
Arieru Eisu's Arcanine: 78% HP

Begin Turn #2
Arcanine used Heat Wave!
(259 damage)
It's super effective!
Beautifly fainted!
Metaleon sent out Tyrant Dragon (Lv.100 Salamence)!
Salamence's Intimidate cuts Arcanine's Attack!
---------------------------------
End of turn #2
Metaleon's Salamence: 331 HP
Arieru Eisu's Arcanine: 78% HP

Begin Turn #3
Salamence used Earthquake!
(77% damage)
It's super effective!
Arcanine fainted!

Arcanine get Intimidated, so an ES combo before you faint wont work. You have no choice but to HP Ice, but you are too slow and lose. Its one for one, but since noone with a right mind would use HP Ice on am Arcanine to begin with, you're idea falls apart from the very begining. HP Fight is what Arcanine usually has, and its more of a use that HP Ice.
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Old April 7th, 2005 (8:11 PM).
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That wasn't a fair 1 on 1.

First of all, it had damage from Beautifly, secondly, because Sal was switched in it got Intimidated.

Reverse the way it went and make Arc Intimidate Salamence and see what happens.

Why are you arguing? I said get back on topic it's my thread so do it.
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Old April 7th, 2005 (8:24 PM).
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Is this argument neccesary?I thought this thread was about the elemental beams and
movesets that support them,not whether Arcanine can take a hit from Salamence.
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Old April 7th, 2005 (8:31 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion Heart
That wasn't a fair 1 on 1.

First of all, it had damage from Beautifly, secondly, because Sal was switched in it got Intimidated.

Reverse the way it went and make Arc Intimidate Salamence and see what happens.

Why are you arguing? I said get back on topic it's my thread so do it.
Do it any way you like, unless you know Mence is coming you're gonna faint. That added damage, which was a weak, means nothing. 405 + 1.5 @ Weak Def spells OHKO.

Zard @ Leftovers? Lum.
Substitute
Belly Drum
Earthquake/Rockslide/Aerial Ace or HP Fly
Blast Burn
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Old April 7th, 2005 (8:37 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Razzor
Do it any way you like, unless you know Mence is coming you're gonna faint. That added damage, which was a weak, means nothing. 405 + 1.5 @ Weak Def spells OHKO.

Zard @ Leftovers? Lum.
Substitute
Belly Drum
Earthquake/Rockslide/Aerial Ace or HP Fly
Blast Burn
Charizard with that moveset is just begging to be Rock Blasted.:laugh:
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Old April 7th, 2005 (8:38 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MewthreeXL
Charizard with that moveset is just begging to be Rock Blasted.:laugh:
I see you are still having chills from my Armaldo, lol. Zard loses to Rock Blast anyways, might aswell Blast Something to bits lol.

The big 800 posts.
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Old April 7th, 2005 (9:07 PM).
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No,not really.I duplicated that set,and it loses out to proper prediction,and Scarmory,or
Tyranitar,and QA,ES,MP,or any Roarer/Whirlwinder for that matter.
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Old April 7th, 2005 (9:10 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MewthreeXL
No,not really.I duplicated that set,and it loses out to proper prediction,and Scarmory,or
Tyranitar,and QA,ES,MP,or any Roarer/Whirlwinder for that matter.
Ah, I see. Guess anyone can predict these days. Back in GSC some people struggled, but I guess everything now is a bit more predictable.
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Old April 7th, 2005 (11:19 PM).
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Because people are using ONLY standard sets, which means unless it's someone from here, or another place, and you know they don't use standards, you can basically be guarenteed they will do wht you think they will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MewthreeXL
Is this argument neccesary?
No, it isn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Razzor
Zard @ Leftovers? Lum.
Substitute
Belly Drum
Earthquake/Rockslide/Aerial Ace or HP Fly
Blast Burn
This set kinda has Blast Burn out in the open, I know he has protection from the Sub, but I feel Zard needs more than that.
Belly Drumming for 1 physical move seems a little iffy to me.
 

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