RMT Help Me Counter Some Threats?

Started by ShivaDF April 17th, 2015 7:40 PM
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ShivaDF

The Scooter-riding Artist

Seen August 24th, 2017
Posted July 26th, 2017
482 posts
13.7 Years
So... I'm just getting into competitive battling and my team and I are doing well, but there are two pokémon that I have a lot of trouble countering: Manaphy and Scizor. If one or both of these pokémon is on my opponent's team, especially if paired with a Gale Wings Talonflame, it's like I can't do anything. Can you help me with the weak spots on my team? I guess I don't really need to say this, but it's standard battle format.

Dr. Death (Absol) (M) @ Absolite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 244 Atk / 6 Def / 6 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Superpower
- Sucker Punch
- Pursuit
- Swords Dance

Magic Bouncer and speedy physical attacker. Pretty self-explanatory.

Galanthia (Froslass) (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 2 HP / 252 SpA / 2 SpD / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Ice Beam
- Shadow Ball
- Destiny Bond
- Spikes

Suicide lead, sets up Spikes, glass cannon.

Luka (Clefable) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 16 SpA / 120 SpD
Modest Nature
- Moonblast
- Moonlight
- Cosmic Power
- Stored Power

The star of my team. If given time to set up, she takes out pretty much anything. However, when I come up against a Scizor paired with Gale Wings Talonflame, or if Manaphy uses Tail Glow, she never has time to bulk up. If you're wondering why she has Moonlight instead of Soft-Boiled, it is because I've always felt like in-game, it is so hard to get that move on Clefable that I personally don't use it.

Asperatus (Dusknoir) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Ice Punch
- Shadow Sneak
- Substitute
- Focus Punch

Bulky SubPuncher. He quickly takes out the Kami trio and Ferrothorn. If he goes down, Clefable generally deals with the rest of the pokémon. I know many people say offensive Dusknoir is not viable, but it is working for me so far because nobody expects it. If possible, I do not want to replace this pokémon.

Uropygi (Gliscor) (F) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 6 Def / 200 SpD / 50 Spe
Careful Nature
- Acrobatics
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Roost

Self-explanatory again. Takes out Heatran if Dusnoir doesn't. Not a Substitute build, though. I like to be able to attack Flying-types so i have an attack other than Earthquake.

Supercell (Starmie) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 245 HP / 10 Def / 4 SpA / 4 SpD / 245 Spe
Calm Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Rapid Spin
- Reflect Type
- Recover

Reflect Type Starmie. I use Reflect Type to deal with Electric-type pokemon, and I try to use Thunderbolt to take out Talonflame, but again, if Scizor is also on my opponent's team, it always takes Starmie out.

I would appreciate any critique!
Also, this is so lame, but where do people get their animations from?! XD

PlatinumDude

Nyeh?

Age 29
Male
Canada
Seen July 31st, 2020
Posted May 30th, 2020
12,958 posts
12.7 Years
What's the deal with some of your Pokemon's EV spreads?

While Superpower does let Absol run through Ferrothorn more easily, it's not that necessary due to the Steel nerf; Steels are now hit neutrally by Dark (and Ghost). Moreover, thanks to the OR/AS move tutors, Knock Off, Superpower and Play Rough are now legal on it:
-Swords Dance
-Sucker Punch
-Knock Off/Baton Pass
-Play Rough/Baton Pass
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Absolite

If you intend to make Froslass a suicide lead (and that's not very easy to do with team preview), it must run a Timid nature to outspeed as much stuff as you can:
-Spikes
-Taunt
-Destiny Bond
-Icy Wind/Ice Beam/Shadow Ball
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Focus Sash
Ability: Cursed Body

Unaware Clefable does fine against Manaphy, as it can ignore its Tail Glow boosts. It has an even better chance of doing so with a Calm nature and 84 Special Defense EVs. While Stored Power seems tempting to use, it takes a bit too much time to get going; Mega Latias does Stored Power abuse much better because of its better bulk:
-Calm Mind
-Moonblast
-Moonlight/Wish
-Heal Bell/Protect/Flamethrower
Nature: Calm/Bold
EVs: 252 HP/172 Def/84 SDef or 248 HP/252 Def/8 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Unaware

or
-Stealth Rock
-Moonblast
-Fire Blast/Thunder Wave
-Moonlight
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP/172 Def/84 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Unaware

To put things bluntly, Dusknoir sucks. It doesn't have a good Ghost STAB and it's not that strong. Its good defenses are let down by its bad HP. Clefable can't be the only thing that checks/counters Manaphy, so Grass and Electric Pokemon like Ferrothorn, Raikou, Amoonguss, and Thundurus are good backups against it. Thundurus also has a nice bonus of resisting most of Scizor's commonly used moves and can pressure it with Thunderbolt:

Ferrothorn
-Spikes/Stealth Rock
-Leech Seed
-Gyro Ball/Thunder Wave
-Power Whip/Protect
Nature: Relaxed
EVs: 252 HP/88 Def/168 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs

Raikou:
-Thunderbolt
-Volt Switch
-Hidden Power (Ice/Grass)
-Shadow Ball/Extrasensory
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SAtk/4 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Choice Specs/Assault Vest

Amoonguss:
-Spore
-Giga Drain
-Clear Smog/Sludge Bomb/Hidden Power (Fire)
-Foul Play/Sludge Bomb/Hidden Power (Fire)
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP/136 Def/120 SDef
Item: Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator

Thundurus:
-Thunderbolt
-Hidden Power (Ice)
-Focus Blast/Psychic/Taunt
-Thunder Wave/Taunt
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Leftovers/Life Orb
Ability: Prankster

or
-Nasty Plot
-Thunderbolt
-Hidden Power (Ice/Flying)
-Thunder Wave/Focus Blast/Substitute
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Leftovers
Ability: Prankster

or
-Thunderbolt
-Hidden Power (Ice)
-Knock Off
-Superpower/Thunder Wave
Nature: Naive
EVs: 76 Atk/180 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb

Gliscor can stall break very effectively; a specially defensive Swords Dance variant lets Gliscor muscle past Mega Sableye. While Fling + Acrobatics seems tempting, Fling becomes a wasted moveslot once the Toxic Orb is flung away:
-Swords Dance
-Earthquake
-Knock Off/Facade
-Roost
Nature: Careful
EVs: 252 HP/200 SDef/56 Spe
Item: Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal

Scald is preferred on Reflect Type Starmie because the 30% burn chance outweighs the extra power Thunderbolt has (when Starmie is neither Water nor Electric). Not only that, Scald has good coverage by itself, while running Thunderbolt as a lone offensive attack leaves you walled by Ground Pokemon. Reflect Type's main use is to make Starmie not bait against Ferrothorn (as Grass/Steel resists itself), Tyranitar and Bisharp (Dark happens to resist Dark, so Starmie won't become Pursuit bait this way). That way, once Starmie Reflect Types either of them, it can proceed to spam Scald to fish for a burn on any of them:
-Scald
-Rapid Spin
-Reflect Type
-Recover
Nature: Timid
EVs: 248 HP/8 Def/252 Spe
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure

And as for how to deal with Scizor, a Fire Pokemon is your best friend here. An example here is Volcarona, which appreciates Starmie's Rapid Spinning duties:
-Quiver Dance
-Bug Buzz/Hidden Power (Ground)
-Fire Blast
-Giga Drain
Nature: Timid
EVs: 72 HP/252 SAtk/184 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Lum Berry
Ability: Flame Body

ShivaDF

The Scooter-riding Artist

Seen August 24th, 2017
Posted July 26th, 2017
482 posts
13.7 Years
Thank you very much!

Absol
-Swords Dance
-Sucker Punch
-Knock Off
-Play Rough
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Absolite

Clefable
-Calm Mind
-Moonblast
-Moonlight
-Heal Bell
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP/172 Def/84 SDef or 248 HP/252 Def/8 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Unaware

I suppose I'll need Heal Bell on Clefable because everyone wants to poison it.

Gliscor
-Swords Dance
-Earthquake
-Knock Off/Facade
-Roost
Nature: Careful
EVs: 252 HP/200 SDef/56 Spe
Item: Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal

Starmie
-Scald
-Rapid Spin
-Reflect Type
-Recover
Nature: Timid
EVs: 248 HP/8 Def/252 Spe
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure

Volcanroa
-Quiver Dance
-Bug Buzz/
-Fire Blast
-Giga Drain
Nature: Timid
EVs: 72 HP/252 SAtk/184 Spe
Item: Lum Berry
Ability: Flame Body

And Thundrus/Raikou/Ferrothorn.

Now I think all of these are great sets, but are you sure your replacements for Dusknoir can effectively combat a Gale Wings Talonflame with its priority? Or will Starmie be able to do that effectively?

PlatinumDude

Nyeh?

Age 29
Male
Canada
Seen July 31st, 2020
Posted May 30th, 2020
12,958 posts
12.7 Years
Thank you very much!

Absol
-Swords Dance
-Sucker Punch
-Knock Off
-Play Rough
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Absolite

Clefable
-Calm Mind
-Moonblast
-Moonlight
-Heal Bell
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP/172 Def/84 SDef or 248 HP/252 Def/8 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Unaware

I suppose I'll need Heal Bell on Clefable because everyone wants to poison it.

Gliscor
-Swords Dance
-Earthquake
-Knock Off/Facade
-Roost
Nature: Careful
EVs: 252 HP/200 SDef/56 Spe
Item: Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal

Starmie
-Scald
-Rapid Spin
-Reflect Type
-Recover
Nature: Timid
EVs: 248 HP/8 Def/252 Spe
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure

Volcanroa
-Quiver Dance
-Bug Buzz/
-Fire Blast
-Giga Drain
Nature: Timid
EVs: 72 HP/252 SAtk/184 Spe
Item: Lum Berry
Ability: Flame Body

And Thundrus/Raikou/Ferrothorn.

Now I think all of these are great sets, but are you sure your replacements for Dusknoir can effectively combat a Gale Wings Talonflame with its priority? Or will Starmie be able to do that effectively?
Other checks/counters to Talonflame include Heatran and Wash Rotom. As for previous suggestions, Thundurus also helps vs. Talonflame, as it can cripple it with Thunder Wave. Gliscor also fares decently against non-Choice Band Talonflame.

Heatran:
-Stealth Rock
-Lava Plume
-Toxic
-Taunt/Roar/Protect
Nature: Calm/Timid
EVs: 248 HP/192 SDef/68 Spe or 248 HP/8 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Leftovers

or
-Magma Storm
-Earth Power
-Taunt
-Toxic/Solar Beam
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Leftovers/Power Herb

or
-Fire Blast/Magma Storm
-Flash Cannon/Hidden Power (Ice)/Stone Edge
-Earth Power
-Stealth Rock
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Air Balloon

or
-Overheat/Fire Blast
-Flash Cannon
-Earth Power
-Stone Edge/Ancient Power
Nature: Timid
EVs: 28 HP/252 SAtk/228 Spe
Item: Choice Scarf

Wash Rotom:
-Volt Switch
-Hydro Pump
-Will-o-Wisp
-Pain Split/Rest
Nature: Bold
EVs: 248 HP/252 Def/8 SDef
Item: Leftovers/Chesto Berry

skyburial

Orca Hype

Age 32
Male
Colorado
Seen April 17th, 2017
Posted March 15th, 2017
892 posts
8.6 Years
I suppose I'll need Heal Bell on Clefable because everyone wants to poison it.
Alternatively, you can give it the ability Magic Guard, which ignores damage from non-attacking moves.
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PlatinumDude

Nyeh?

Age 29
Male
Canada
Seen July 31st, 2020
Posted May 30th, 2020
12,958 posts
12.7 Years
Alternatively, you can give it the ability Magic Guard, which ignores damage from non-attacking moves.
Clefable really needs Unaware in this team because as the OP mentioned, it originally struggled with Manaphy and Scizor, and with the former, Clefable can ignore Manaphy's Tail Glow boosts and use it as bait for its Calm Minds.