Windows 10! Page 7

Started by Starry Windy July 27th, 2015 5:20 AM
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Posted October 19th, 2017
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Terrible example. One should actually read the lines instead of between them someday, and that image actually makes zero sense when you think about what they actually do. A lot of the options do exactly what they say, and these data collection is required for the features to work as expected. Or they wouldn't be there, you know? (I cringe a bit every time someone relinks that image, because it's extremely biased against Microsoft without adequate justification.)
Oh I'm sorry. I didn't realise you worked for Microsoft and knew exactly what they were doing because you've seen the source code.
Oh wait, you don't. So you can't know. We're not biased against Microsoft; we just have standards that their proprietary software does not even come close to meeting. "Reading between the lines" shows exactly what they're capable of. The irrefutable fact is that they have backdoors in Windows that you can't disable. You just have to trust that they're using it like they say they are.
Sure you can disable the keylogger, and all the other privacy invasions, but what about the stuff that you can't?

Feel free free to be part of the botnet all you want, but don't tell other users it's safe and private - it's not and no amount of deflection is going to change that.

Also why do I have to change my SSID to end with "_optout". How am I supposed to have an SSID that ends in both "_nomap" and "_optout".

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Alexander Nicholi

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Yeah, I’ve never really been the kind of guy to support privacy invasion, or consumer ignorance either.

Twiggy, I hope you realize that by saying such-and-such anti-privacy thing “goes back to [Windows OS before 10]” you’re creating a snowball effect that worsens your argument. Just letting you know.

Totally crystal clear
Lovely Ben Franklin quote right there. Though, I always remembered it as, “Those who sacrifice guaranteed liberty for promised security deserve neither.” I’m sure Microsoft is happy to tell us how good a job it’s doing with all of our information :P
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Legendary Silke

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Oh I'm sorry. I didn't realise you worked for Microsoft and knew exactly what they were doing because you've seen the source code.
Oh wait, you don't. So you can't know. We're not biased against Microsoft; we just have standards that their proprietary software does not even come close to meeting. "Reading between the lines" shows exactly what they're capable of. The irrefutable fact is that they have backdoors in Windows that you can't disable. You just have to trust that they're using it like they say they are.
Sure you can disable the keylogger, and all the other privacy invasions, but what about the stuff that you can't?

Feel free free to be part of the botnet all you want, but don't tell other users it's safe and private - it's not and no amount of deflection is going to change that.

Also why do I have to change my SSID to end with "_optout". How am I supposed to have an SSID that ends in both "_nomap" and "_optout".
Yeah, I’ve never really been the kind of guy to support privacy invasion, or consumer ignorance either.

Twiggy, I hope you realize that by saying such-and-such anti-privacy thing “goes back to [Windows OS before 10]” you’re creating a snowball effect that worsens your argument. Just letting you know.

Lovely Ben Franklin quote right there. Though, I always remembered it as, “Those who sacrifice guaranteed liberty for promised security deserve neither.” I’m sure Microsoft is happy to tell us how good a job it’s doing with all of our information :P
Fine. I think I'm not a good debater anyway.

Though, if this merits only a small section in short takes in one of Paul Thurrott's articles...

I'm still in the firm belief that it's just the Internet being the Internet that's overanalysing things.

Watch them patch it out if it's of any indication (enough complaining tends to do that, good or bad). And if we shouldn't trust Microsoft, maybe we shouldn't trust anyone else, too. Double standards, double standards. And do we even have a proof that Windows 10 is a genuine privacy intrusion after it's properly set up, anyway? (No, telemetry isn't.)

Feel free to not believe any word I've said and think I work in Microsoft. I'm done talking about Windows 10 and privacy, other than how to configure it. I'd appreciate it if we dropped it right here, right now. (Perhaps spinning this off in another thread is better.)

On another topic...

Two weeks into Windows 10, I think I'm picking up the pace I used to have. 8.1 was OK, but I think I vastly prefer 10 by a long shot.

Qibli

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hmm is it possible to run 10 on VirtualBox I just want to enjoy those apps I missed without replacing my OS?
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Qibli

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I want to use it, but the key already occupied on my computer before the rollback.
Post Sig coming soon.
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Legendary Silke

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I want to use it, but the key already occupied on my computer before the rollback.
Ah, then you really shouldn't try to transfer it. I don't think you're supposed to use this kind of key in VMs, anyway.

I wonder when we'll see retail Windows 10 media? Right now it seems like everyone just tells people to get a copy of Windows 7 or 8.1 and upgrade from there instead. It's a bit of an extra step.

Qibli

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So i should just use 7 on VM and get the free upgrade. Seems legit
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obZen

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I'm waiting to get my msdnaa account renewed at school, then I'll try it in Virtualbox.
I've yet to try it past an older preview, but I'm assuming that Microsoft still hasn't solved its hidpi issues in Windows 10? Can anyone confirm?


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Alexander Nicholi

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Sorry for dragging an old topic through the mud but...

If that's the case, and you think that companies invading your privacy is that big of a concern, you might as well also stop using your Android and iOS devices, as well as stop using e-mail, Facebook, or anything else that's online. Heck, you might as well completely abandon your entire online life as you know it and go back to the 80s when this wasn't as commonplace (That even includes tossing your fancy smartphones away and getting a more basic flip phone or Nokia if any carriers still allow them). Even move off the grid so that bills and payments cannot be traced back to you. Go cash-only, do under-the-table jobs. That way you don't have to file a tax report every April. Many other companies have been doing it for years (And the sad part is that a lot of people that talk about this stuff use sites like Facebook, which actually probably hand out more information than MS would!!!). The fact that MS is doing it (Some of it is for legit reasons as stated in the article Twiggy linked - for actually enhancing the user experience) doesn't mean that it's bad, it's that they're last to the punch with something that everyone else is already doing. Besides, why are you so concerned over privacy? You should only be super-concerned if you have something to hide. Otherwise, the NSA and all those government programs couldn't give two muks about a random citizen that browses Facebook and plays Farmville all day.
You can’t say that, unless of course you work for the NSA and feel like joining Snowden with their league of whistleblowers who spoil their secrets. Also, Snowden’s documents reveal a lot about how much they in fact do care about your random average citizen, but of course you’ve never read them so you’re just talking nonsense about that.

I laughed a little at your proposition. You can’t justify taking it lying down by saying we have to take it to begin with. “Don’t give in without a fight.” I highly suspect that if people actually cared about their privacy this wouldn’t be happening.

In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with Windows 10. A lot of the stuff I don't like I've disabled. I do value my privacy with intimate details, but I have nothing to hide. The people that are warning users of these "privacy invasions" are the kind of people that wear tinfoil hats all the time, they think that they're constantly being spied on and stuff like that.
You can’t “have nothing to hide” without knowing what they’re looking for, lol. Basic logic says that much. The fact of the matter is you don’t even know who these “third parties” are so you have no safety with your information whatsoever.

tl;dr: There's no 100% safe OS that won't track you or capture anything you say.
Bullmuk. Try installing Linux and reading about the definition of “free software.” If you're wondering, it’s simply software that you control, not vice versa.

There may be extensions that can block cookies, but anything that is put on the internet can somehow be traced back to you. You are never safe and never will be. If you truly want to have everything private, you would be best off moving off the grid and living off the land or doing cash-only jobs under a false name.

[/2¢]
Tor much? How on Earth do you think Edward Snowden succeeded in exposing the mass spying network the National Security Agency set up if this absurd proposition that “you can never be safe” was true?

Let’s liken this to a corrupt policeman. You’re suggesting we give ourselves up to the whim of this corrupt policeman simply because we can’t run away from him short of becoming mountain men. What I’m suggesting is that we come together to confront the corrupt policeman and hold him to higher justice, and use allies (Linux, Tor, using your head) to protect ourselves as much as we can (no, we cannot 100% protect ourselves) until we’re able to do so, so we get both proper privacy protection and a Windows operating system. It’s obviously the more logical solution, no?

inb4 someone tries to refute and back out lol
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You can’t say that, unless of course you work for the NSA and feel like joining Snowden with their league of whistleblowers who spoil their secrets. Also, Snowden’s documents reveal a lot about how much they in fact do care about your random average citizen, but of course you’ve never read them so you’re just talking nonsense about that.

I laughed a little at your proposition. You can’t justify taking it lying down by saying we have to take it to begin with. “Don’t give in without a fight.” I highly suspect that if people actually cared about their privacy this wouldn’t be happening.
Citing Snowden is a moot point because, as someone who worked for the NSA, he knew very well how to avoid being tracked by them, something that the average user may not have access to.

And, quite frankly, every high-selling commercial OS has privacy issues. Google is even worse than Microsoft in this regard. Team Fail definitely has a good point. I'd be willing to say that most privacy advocators are probably the people with the most skeletons in the closet, since there's no real reason to be such a staunch privacy supporter if you have nothing to hide. If you do have something to hide, however, it can be eventually found out, and the legal system has means to access your data. Doing bank transactions is a liability, surfing the web is a liability. Cops are everywhere as snitches.

Do you think that, if I started posting Nazi or terrorism supporting bullmuk for example, the police wouldn't even try to find out who I am, where I live, and so on? They can investigate me if they want, and they have the means to find out. If I'm openly commiting a crime, no amount of "privacy" excuses will save me. Encryption, VPNs, Tor, masked emails only delay the process. You WILL leave a footprint somewhere, because hey, we're human and make mistakes, and, when they find it, your whole privacy setup is compromised.

Remaining inconspicuous also involves a good degree of self-control and avoiding getting into sensitive situations. If you don't do that, no "privacy" will save you from the consequences.


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Alexander Nicholi

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Citing Snowden is a moot point because, as someone who worked for the NSA, he knew very well how to avoid being tracked by them, something that the average user may not have access to.

And, quite frankly, every high-selling commercial OS has privacy issues. Google is even worse than Microsoft in this regard. Team Fail definitely has a good point. I'd be willing to say that most privacy advocators are probably the people with the most skeletons in the closet, since there's no real reason to be such a staunch privacy supporter if you have nothing to hide. If you do have something to hide, however, it can be eventually found out, and the legal system has means to access your data. Doing bank transactions is a liability, surfing the web is a liability. Cops are everywhere as snitches.
I went over this before about “Having nothing to hide,” but apparently since you didn’t catch that I’ll go ahead and
You can’t “have nothing to hide” without knowing what they’re looking for, lol. Basic logic says that much. The fact of the matter is you don’t even know who these “third parties” are so you have no safety with your information whatsoever.
Do you think that, if I started posting Nazi or terrorism supporting bullmuk for example, the police wouldn't even try to find out who I am, where I live, and so on? They can investigate me if they want, and they have the means to find out. If I'm openly commiting a crime, no amount of "privacy" excuses will save me. Encryption, VPNs, Tor, masked emails only delay the process. You WILL leave a footprint somewhere, because hey, we're human and make mistakes, and, when they find it, your whole privacy setup is compromised.

Remaining inconspicuous also involves a good degree of self-control and avoiding getting into sensitive situations. If you don't do that, no "privacy" will save you from the consequences.
Lol, advocating for privacy is far from advocating for crime. Nice try though. No one cares about criminals, they take what they can get. And those arguments against criminals are nice, except governments are well known to gratuitously abuse their power, and have countless times in the past gone out to not only prosecute and convict non-criminals, but even people advocating or protesting in the name of what most people consider good or charitable. That's a rock-solid reason to not give them any more than they need to keep the peace.


And since this topic is supposed to be about Windows, not governments and crime, I’ll reiterate that your phone conversations, chat logs, photos, videos, keystrokes, and webcam being Microsoft’s analytical guppie for statistics aggregation isn’t acceptable. It’s worth noting that most people simply don’t give a muk, though. Ever wondered why politics suck?

And as for whether privacy is valuable: Knowledge is power. The more you know, the more powerful you are in relation to what you know. That is a truth. So by giving up all of your information you’re giving Microsoft and whoever else buys your info from them a stupidly large amount of power over you. Comfortable?
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Mana

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Still waiting for the update on this end ;-;. Forever waiting. Kind of glad I'm not one of the first to get it though!

Legendary Silke

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Posted April 22nd, 2020
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Still waiting for the update on this end ;-;. Forever waiting. Kind of glad I'm not one of the first to get it though!
Going to guess that you managed to at least reserve it?

Mana

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Going to guess that you managed to at least reserve it?
Yeah I'm just waiting for the notification, I reserved aggeeees ago so a bit disappointed that its taking so long o_o I was expecting a day or two.

Legendary Silke

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Yeah I'm just waiting for the notification, I reserved aggeeees ago so a bit disappointed that its taking so long o_o I was expecting a day or two.
Try checking Windows Update for new updates. Sometimes that is all it takes to make the computer think "oh, that's right!"

Legendary Silke

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http://www.pcauthority.com.au/News/407894,microsoft-can-disable-your-pirated-games-and-illegal-hardware.aspx

Guess which operating system I'm never getting...
I bet people will work around that somehow. :)

That, or it ends up being unenforceable.

Actually, Windows Central just updated and it appears to be yet another non-issue as it's the wrong EULA. (the one tied to Windows itself isn't, the Services Agreement is, but that means that it's referring to XBL and Store content.)

Rukario

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Just one small question in regards to privacy: Why does cortana need to send your data (i.e. what it has "learned" about you ) to Microsoft?



I see no reason what so ever, other than to add to MS's userdata database available to anyone with the right amount of money in their wallet or a gov agency..

No thanks. Annomymouse machine data and hash's is one thing (and can be useful if a program crashed, etc) but detailed search, browsing, what you watch,and so on habits nope. no way.

Mana

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http://www.pcauthority.com.au/News/407894,microsoft-can-disable-your-pirated-games-and-illegal-hardware.aspx

Guess which operating system I'm never getting...
This feels somewhat ironic.

>Microsoft spying on me!
>Actually doing illegal things that negatively impact on Microsoft (/other gaming companies).

Makes sense they'd do this, really. Surprised they didn't crack down further back, cracked games have been commonplace for like a decade now haha.

Tsutarja

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Honestly, I'm getting tired of the whole "omg microsoft is spying on me that's illegal!!!!!1111!!" issue. I understand that privacy is key to many people (and believe me, it is to me as well), but if Microsoft didn't state that collection of data is in existence, they could get into legal trouble for allowing their users to partake in illegal activities, such as pirating of video games, or torrenting of media.

Legendary Silke

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Seen December 23rd, 2021
Posted April 22nd, 2020
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Just one small question in regards to privacy: Why does cortana need to send your data (i.e. what it has "learned" about you ) to Microsoft?

I see no reason what so ever, other than to add to MS's userdata database available to anyone with the right amount of money in their wallet or a gov agency..

No thanks. Annomymouse machine data and hash's is one thing (and can be useful if a program crashed, etc) but detailed search, browsing, what you watch,and so on habits nope. no way.
Rukario, this actually goes both ways. It'd be actually really handy if, you know, personalization actually sticks when going across multiple machines signed into the same account. Either way, if you don't feel like doing that, you can turn it off and have it be more generic, though it'll also stop some features from working, or have you having to use inferior alternatives. The same information is also being improved to improve the very thing you're using, too.

I think Cortana needs to be that personal in order to be personal in the first place, so yeah. Without that information, it'd be...well, quite generic and unhelpful. (I don't think a personal assistant can even work if it doesn't know anything about you.)

This feels somewhat ironic.

>Microsoft spying on me!
>Actually doing illegal things that negatively impact on Microsoft (/other gaming companies).

Makes sense they'd do this, really. Surprised they didn't crack down further back, cracked games have been commonplace for like a decade now haha.
I'm going to guess that it's probably unenforceable, or if it is, people will get around that really quickly. That, and it appears to be the wrong EULA, anyway.

Either way, more people should spend some time in understanding and (re)configuring privacy-related settings in Windows 10 and I'm sure you'll be a happier person, since you'll have your OS set up exactly the way you like it.

Honestly, I'm getting tired of the whole "omg microsoft is spying on me that's illegal!!!!!1111!!" issue. I understand that privacy is key to many people (and believe me, it is to me as well), but if Microsoft didn't state that collection of data is in existence, they could get into legal trouble for allowing their users to partake in illegal activities, such as pirating of video games, or torrenting of media.
I actually don't think that's exactly what's going on here with the new EULA update.

Legendary Silke

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I doubt that'll stop the FUD if what I've seen on the Internet is of any indication. :)

But, yeah, every bit helps at this point.

Leviathan

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Not to go off piste here or anything, but would anyone happen to know how exactly does one change the default white background for file explorer? I'd like it to be a dark colour instead, to match my theme more. I went looking in the registry but couldn't pinpoint the setting governing it.

Rukario

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Rukario, this actually goes both ways. It'd be actually really handy if, you know, personalization actually sticks when going across multiple machines signed into the same account. Either way, if you don't feel like doing that, you can turn it off and have it be more generic, though it'll also stop some features from working, or have you having to use inferior alternatives. The same information is also being improved to improve the very thing you're using, too.

I think Cortana needs to be that personal in order to be personal in the first place, so yeah. Without that information, it'd be...well, quite generic and unhelpful. (I don't think a personal assistant can even work if it doesn't know anything about you.)
Note

If you want to use Cortana, you must have Getting to know you turned on.

While it may be nice to sync between devices like your pc / lapto and a winphone, by logging in to ohh lets say a MS account.. I still disagree that this info needs to sent to MS. It should all be local, handled at the local level either by usb connecting phone/devices, or via lan wifi. MS has no business knowing wtf you do.

most of these neat new features REQUIRE to login to MS and send your data.. DO NOT WAMT. I want to use these features but only at a local lan or (my) network level.

Alexander Nicholi

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Note

If you want to use Cortana, you must have Getting to know you turned on.

While it may be nice to sync between devices like your pc / lapto and a winphone, by logging in to ohh lets say a MS account.. I still disagree that this info needs to sent to MS. It should all be local, handled at the local level either by usb connecting phone/devices, or via lan wifi. MS has no business knowing wtf you do.

most of these neat new features REQUIRE to login to MS and send your data.. DO NOT WAMT. I want to use these features but only at a local lan or (my) network level.
But Steve, mass data collection is cool! Just give your info up, they won't do anything bad with it, we promise!

I love how people have flatly ignored every point they have no argument against in this discussion. It's as if we didn't even say it, they wen't right back to "it's fine if you're not doing anything illegal" lolol

I stopped reading after the first sentence. Who on earth puts their life's privacy in the hands of how some journalist feels? Is that not insane?
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the beat goes on (ノ^o^;)ノ
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