Is PC for Beginners? Should It Be? Page 2

Started by Kikpanther January 27th, 2016 9:37 PM
  • 5314 views
  • 48 replies

GreyBidoof

You used a Master Ball on the GreyBidoof!

Age 26
Male
Goldenrod City, Johto
Seen June 14th, 2020
Posted November 29th, 2018
774 posts
9 Years
[...] but anecdotal evidence is only that. Anecdotal.


I think we can all see that the majority of the RPs here are made and joined by the same people. Whether it be because of cliques or because of intimidated beginners, that has to be a sign of a problem, right?
Let's take a look, then!


As for the RPs made for certain people thing:

*DISCLAIMER: These lists are taken from the OP so please take into account any name changes. All of these lists are from RPs that are closed for applications/started/were made in 2015.

Spoiler:


STAR WARS: Jedi Outcasts
GMed by Fire

Members:
Jegretis
Oddball_
SV
Godzil
Lord Sphear
The Last Sentinel
JohnnyMustang
Legend
gimmiepie
Greiger
aeternum

As the Dust Settles
Gmed by circuit

Members:
Lord Sephear
Ice Goddess
JohnnyMustang
Foxrally
Shak
Godzil
Pikachu
Infinite
GreyBidoof
Varys
Legend
Geras32
Aiden
aeternum
SkyisUmbreon
Yukari
Nagi
Ice
Himika
Deceptio

Trumpets
GMed by Varys

Members:
Fire
ShaymieTheShaymin
LinearAxel
Dragon
Loki
Fennekin210
The Nero
Desinishon
dud190
FireSnow
killer150
Frozen Heart
Crescent Moon
Legend

Redux: The Sinnoh Stories
GMed by gimmiepie

Members:
vsich4
STARDU5T
Icy
Sheraku
Aeternum
Gelius3
Julius Caeser
TheSignWriter
Disclosed
Ice
Aiden
Chicken Fingers
Himika
Ice Goddess
Foreal
Pikachu

Once Upon a Time: An Adventure in Storybrooke
GMed by Merlin

Members:
Cheshire Cat
Godzil
Varys the Galvantula
Wizardman11

Gunpowder
GMed by gimmipie

Members:
GreyBidoof
aeternum
Foxrally
Ice
Shak
Sir General Admiral Fancy Swank
Machomuu
Lord Sephear
JohnnyMustang
Merlin

Astra Story
GMed by aeternum

Pikachu
Aiden
Omicron
Fairy
DLMuerte
Milotic
Davepetasprite^2
Wizardman11
Hopeless Masquerade

Poke-Ronpa: Year One-Dispair
GMed by STARDU5T

Members:
Tokio
Disclosed
Godzil
Vsich4
Grieger
Ozymandias

Shifting Sands
GMed by EternalSushi

Members:
Daydream
Greiger
Disclosed
Godzil
Plumbum
Jegretis
Cheshire Cat
Kikpanther

Legends Of The Past: An Unova Journey
GMed by Frozen Heart

Members:
Himika
Legend
Deceptio
Dragon
Nagi
Lucifer-San
Shak
Nakuzami
Under_Score

Crossroads; Retribution - ACT II
GMed by Fire

Members:
Dragon
Sir Bastion
Himika
Legend
Grieger
Foxrally
drunk ¬_¬
{Swan}
Shak
Geras32

Hidden Village
GMed by Merlin

Members:
<Challenger>
Andydemon
Godzil
Wizardman11
Bacteriophage

Take Off
GMed by The Prince of Sweet Sorrow

Members:
GastlyGibus
Plumbum
Turnip
Grieger
MurkMire
Kikpanther
SV
Pterosauria


There's variation here and there, but I think you can see there is a lot of the same people. It may not be intentional (and technically it's not against the rules) but it's happening.
So, from of this list, we have:

- 13 roleplays
- 10 different GMs
- 143 player characters (Assuming each player only had one. I think I counted this right)
- 74 individual players.

Don't believe me? Here's the players list you provided, without repeated names.

Spoiler:
Fire
Jegretis
Oddball_
SV
Godzil
Lord Sphear
The Last Sentinel
JohnnyMustang
Legend
gimmiepie
Greiger
aeternum
circuit
Ice Goddess
Foxrally
Shak
Infinite
GreyBidoof
Varys
SkyisUmbreon
Yukari
Nagi
Ice
Himika
Deceptio
ShaymieTheShaymin
LinearAxel
Dragon
Loki
Fennekin210
The Nero
Desinishon
dud190
FireSnow
killer150
Crescent Moon
STARDU5T
Icy
Sheraku
Gelius3
Julius Caeser
TheSignWriter
Disclosed
Chicken Fingers
Foreal
Merlin
Cheshire Cat
Sir General Admiral Fancy Swank
Machomuu
Omicron
Fairy
DLMuerte
Milotic
Davepetasprite^2
Hopeless Masquerade
Tokio
Ozymandias
EternalSushi
Daydream
Plumbum
Kikpanther
Lucifer-San
Nakuzami
Under_Score
Sir Bastion
drunk ¬_¬
{Swan}
<Challenger>
Andydemon
The Prince of Sweet Sorrow
GastlyGibus
Turnip
MurkMire
Pterosauria


In addition, none of the RPs had an identical player list.

It would seem that rather than "variation here and there", that each group is it's own entity, with a unique player list and theme.

That's the statistical data that's been provided so far.

You were saying, then?



Friends for Infinity
RPT | Titans | Theme Song | Pair

"Doofin' it up."

art by the churiffic Infinite

Jauntier

Where was your antennas again?

Male
USA
Seen April 6th, 2018
Posted December 23rd, 2017
690 posts
7.8 Years
So this thread got me a lot of notifications so--happy day!--people actually care. At least a little bit. I was partially afraid no one would respond, but you guys proved me wrong. I am a bit disappointed in the direction the discussion went, however. I do like that we're discussing this whole clique issue but it was not the point of this thread, more so the point of it. The fact that it became such a big topic makes me think that I may have hit a sore spot in the aforementioned clique, but I think all of that can be solved while making PC a better place for beginners. Also I'd like to apologize for taking so long to respond. I have a lot of responsibilities (that I'm currently ignoring to respond to this) that I have to fulfill.
You're disappointed in the direction of the discussion because the majority disagree with you, I take it.

And then you think it's because a specific "clique" decided to come bumrush you all at once because you just really struck some kind of nerve, you think.

You end with restating your terminal solution of "just make PC a better place."

I will only address your response to me. Everyone else can hold their own, but there's not much to hold against:

Again, the parts I deleted I already answered.

As for the rest of this... I have to be honest I am confused by a lot of what is written here. So I'll try to take this one point at a time. Honestly, these leftover parts have me a bit disappointed that this is the most liked post. I was much more pleased by other responses to this, dissenting or not.
If my post has so much agreement to it, then perhaps you should consider why, if you can move beyond yourself to do so. Your sole confusion while many others understand clearly enough to agree shows an obvious disconnect. My post is in the same vein as the others. Most of the people in this thread agree with each other. Unfortunate that that agreement is not in agreement with you.

Your first point about no guides on a roleplay website. What? So you're saying that we shouldn't have roleplay guides because the people who write them don't know how to write well anyways? Is that what you're saying?
I did not say there should be no guides. I said I personally do not recommend guides to beginners because in my experience, it's the blind leading the blind. That is to say, the people who put forth these guides write just about as well as their peers, with just as many flaws and faults. And yet, they often try to assert their way of writing as the better way, and are not comprehensive in the way that encourages branching out from these guidelines they purport like rules. Serebii's role-playing forum is a great example of how thinking so highly of one's skill and putting forth guides in an effort to have others improve their writing can actually pigeonhole users who are not confident in their abilities.

Even if the author of the guide isn't putting in such a tone in their writing, you do have users who just think guides are book and law anyway, and their way of learning because they are so dependent is through emulating as closely as possible what the guide says. That's an issue of a deeper root.

I honestly hope not. Even if (in your opinion frankly) the guide isn't from the hand of God, anything that can help someone improve is helpful. You don't need to be the best selling author to make a guide. And suggesting that someone have to read through entire RPs to improve is also a bit ridiculous.
I can already tell you're going to shove a lot of words in a lot of mouths.

My entire post is my opinion, so you don't have to remind me or others from this point on that our responses are our opinion.

No, you don't have to be a best-selling author to write a guide. Like I said in this post, the problem can come from people who are not apt to write one comprehensively or flexibly.

Where did I say people should read through "entire RPs to improve"? Not me. Did you read through my entire post? But really, if someone can't be arsed to read the original post of the IC role-play and the character apps to see what people are doing already, then they're just lazy. I have read children's books longer than the RP plot and the linked pages from its accepted applications list. Is reading that little so ridiculous? The answer is and will always be "no."

First of all, if the guides won't be good enough then why would the RPs be good enough?
How do you jump to these conclusions? Writing is a cumulative skill, a building of everything you've learned in practice, from the basics of grammar, mechanics, and syntax to reading comprehension and critical thinking. I don't suddenly read one or two guides on a Pokemon website to make a good role-play post. Writing to inform requires a different set of skills than writing to entertain. The presence of guides do not cause whatsoever "good enough" RPs--some standard that is specific only to you since what you think is "good enough" may very well be different from someone else's "good enough." Guides do not cause role-plays to be any better or worse overall. Again, I'll remind you, writing is a cumulative skill. What you bring to a role-play is what you've been shaping over years.

Second, not everyone has the time to read an entire RP and imitate what they see to improve when a guide works just as well. I really don't even like the implication that writers who want to get more skilled should just copy the things more skilled players do. While borrowing what you like is always helpful, writing style is a big factor to anything you produce that's written. You shouldn't just copy what someone else does on the false pretense that since that person is good you have to write like them to get better. Unless you're talking strictly grammar and the rules of the English language (or whatever language you're writing in) that's just completely untrue.
"Or whatever language you're writing in?" How about English. How about I'm talking about Pokecommunity's supposed issue, and PC is a site written in English. Don't turn this issue that you brought up into a scope that is wider than The Roleplay Theatre.

If you don't have the time to read, like I said, the original post and character applications, or even just a couple IC posts, then that's your problem. Don't read, then. Jump in. You either have enough confidence, eagerness, apathy, or obliviousness to join a role-play, regardless of whether or not it's "advanced" or for "beginners." Good. That's a non-issue. Otherwise, people time-manage, people ask GMs about posting deadlines, and people pick role-plays that if it's already started seem to have a pacing that would suit them.

You don't have to copy what people do. What did I say about making writing peers and connecting with others? There is nothing offensive about finding an element of someone else's writing you enjoy and employing or putting your own twist to it in your own writing next time. This synthesis is natural. This is how people learn about ways of writing they otherwise wouldn't have thought of or come across themselves: through reading and analyzing.

Also, I don't understand how thinking someone is a better writer than you is seeking to join an exclusive crowd? Is it because the word "elite" is being used or??? Just because you want to get to the level of a more skilled RPer doesn't make you "bourgeois-seeking" or whatever analogy you were making here.
You said: There is an air of elitism and clique-ishness here that says "if you're not in the group, you're not in anything". I addressed that. I did not say that merely thinking someone is better at writing by one's perception is in turn they looking for the in-crowd. That wasn't even relative to your statement of elitism and cliques, when you're talking about being a part of social circles. Nothing about writing. You're conflating things and confusing yourself. You should re-read my post because I cannot explain it any clearer than that.

As for the elitism here I'm just gonna address it now since I skipped over it in previous posts. I made this comment because I remember commentary about being better writers from people here in the forum. Maybe that is just a feeling I got from the forums after I heard that. I don't know, but that's where it is coming from. And it was a while ago as well, so I'm not saying the people/person who said it didn't change their minds.
This doesn't concern me.

So for the 90% thing, not really sure where the "those people don't count" thing came from. I never even said that. If that's what you got out of it, sorry. I more meant to say that if you're within the clique you're more likely to say it's not a problem. That's what people do, especially if they feel attacked by something. Honestly, by some of the comments, I think people thought I was trying to attack whoever I thought was in the clique. Maybe in some attempt to tear them down, but that is far from the true. However, being in a clique somehow mean your opinion doesn't matter. If that was the case why would I even post the thread?
Some people aren't very good at reasoning. Some people can't predict the possible consequences of their words and expect people to agree with them, and when people explain very well how they don't, some people express a general disappointment and admit a lack of understanding as to why or how, and try to counter a number of people at once in an effort to stand their ground, badly confusing themselves in the process, having things go over their head and the like.

Case in point: in saying that anyone who disagrees with your point on cliques is 90% likely to be in that clique, you just mindlessly alienated anyone who disagreed with you on an unfounded, assertive assumption. And then you want to say, well, why would I post this thread if their opinion didn't matter--the opinion that I just dashed by accusing opponents of not understanding the problem, because they're comfortable in their position as the problem? The problem, so you don't get lost, being cliques?

I mean, 90% is a lot. I think it was clear that was more of an exaggeration than an actual testament to the problems in the RPC. Especially since this discussion isn't even supposed to be ABOUT the clique thing in the first place. Honestly, it was just supposed to be a supporting point. After that I think you just went even way more off base. I don't think anyone here is an RP activist and the whole "especially on a subforum for pretending to be a Pokemon Trainer, for instance". This is just? What? I really don't understand this inclusion and honestly this sounds a bit elitist. Is there something wrong with being on a subforum about Pokemon? Because you make the idea of having a clique here sound ridiculous and silly. Like having a clique is more worthy in a "more sophisticated" or "more realistic" RP setting. I honestly really hope this is not what you meant.[/i]
Obviously you exaggerated the numerical value of your bogus "statistic." That's not the point. The point is that you are claiming that people who disagreed with your statement had a large probability of being ignorant of the issue because they were involved in it, or in other words, implying they were a part of the problem.

I went off base, you say? I respond to what I understand accordingly. It's alright to take the blame every once in a while and say that you worded something improperly, because I took what you wrote as you wrote it and replied, and a number of people agreed with my interpretation, so perhaps it's not me being way off base as it is you didn't explain yourself well.

You think it's elitist that I am not bothered to pursue a clique on a forum for pretending to be a Pokemon Trainer? Ha ha. You want to know why it sounds silly? Because it is. You were complaining about Pokecommunity's The Roleplay Theatre having the feel of a clique, Kikpanther, and now you want to turn around and say I'm sounding elitist for not wanting to be a part of a clique on a Pokemon forum.

To quote: If that was the case why would I even post the thread?
If I were so elite about a Pokemon subforum, I wouldn't even be here, Kikpanther.

You can't strawman me with that Something wrong with being on a Pokemon subforum? Even worse, somehow you're trying to say that I think cliques are for sophisticated internet sites. You put up a strawman and then you tied a fishing pole to it to dangle a red herring. I have not read something this confused in a while. I seriously encourage you go back and reread my post.

I'm also really hoping you just had bad word choice for the bolded part next. I bolded this because this part was a shocking to me with what you said. Are you really implying that someone might not be good at roleplaying because they have a disability, don't pay attention in their English classes, or need to review elementary level worksheets? Seriously? You can't be serious and I really hope you're not.
You said there are "very little resources that help unskilled writers get better".

A learning disability does make it hard to, you know, utilize resources that help unskilled writers get better. Yes, that's right, people like that exist, people who have learning disabilities and difficulties that will make it more of an obstacle to hone their writing. Yes, it's shocking that I acknowledged them, isn't it? They aren't a demographic so often considered.

If you don't pay attention in English class or you know you're struggling with some topics and don't seek tutorship, yes, that level of writing carries over in someone's role-play. Writing is a cumulative skill.

Now you're being facetious. What does elementary mean? If you're offended that people sometimes need to go back and review some rudimentary or foundational aspects of English grammar, mechanics, and even syntax, then get off your high horse. Even I go back sometimes to refresh my memory on things like parts of speech, phrases, and clauses.

You do not need to actively bully someone to be an elitist. The things you say and the things you do determine that as well and this frankly sounds really elitist to me. Honestly, it does. I'm even more shocked that you would use a guide off of another RP site as possible help even though you already said it doesn't help. Or even imply that someone could easily find or even need to find scholarly articles on creative writing techniques as an alternative to members of the RP forum they're already on giving out advice. Roleplay forums may not be obligated to do anything, but that doesn't mean it's not a good thing to do. What's wrong with being helpful and improving the site as a whole?
What I said about elitism: True elitism in an rp group is shunning or actively shaming people however they can, only letting in their designated crowd of people while they make it a point to call themselves superior, or imply you are inferior with some shady tactics or outright blatancy to prevent the plebians from trickling in.

Again, your quote about how there aren't any resources for writers on Pokecommunity's The Roleplay Theatre, I said a Pokemon subforum is not obligated to creating writing guides for "beginners". I shared my experience and reasoning even in this post as to why I'm hesitant about user-written guides. Then I provided examples of where someone could get the help they needed if someone really wanted to have a guide on how to improve their writing. This chain of response is not difficult to understand unless you're intentionally attempting to twist my words against me. And yes, people can find scholarly articles on writing on the internet. Professors make their money from publishing academic journals online. You can find .PDF files of many topics if you type in the right keywords. You can even log on to your local library's database and peruse or order books and articles to loan. Nothing is out of reach. We live in an age of information. Utilize it or keep finding excuses.

And like I've said before, yes, getting connected to people is also a responsibility of the person who wants to be involved. However, saying "oh well too bad for you" or assuming that person is fragile or infantile is pretty insulting when giving out an extra helping hand isn't backbreaking work and something the members have said they would do anyways.
You just agreed with me that connecting with other people is also the responsibility of the person involved. Good. Agree that ultimately the initiative lies with them since other people are not checking every profile of the names viewing the board to ask if they are trying to join a roleplay and are a "beginner." It isn't backbreaking work to be new and approach role-plays either.

"I thought your argument with your bae..."? What? I'm not sure if this is supposed to be sass or sarcasm but I really need you to hold it back. I do have a name you can call me by. Unless this is some jab at the fact that we're friends? In which case this is even more confusing.
I read signatures. I quoted "your name" in the same post. Restating what you two call your own relation is not a sarcastic sassy jab. I really need you to hold it back.

And the argument still is that the forum isn't friendly to beginners. If there aren't Beginner RPs to join then where do they go? Off site? Your point didn't prove anything except that we might potentially be losing members for the forum. I would think the problem was solved if I wasn't also convinced that we want people to stay in the RPC.
I suppose you could make your own, then. You have demonstrated that you do not understand the opposing rhetoric as to why other people do not A) see or believe there is such a thing as "beginner" and "advanced" role-plays by whatever criteria you have or have not offered, B) believe there is an air of elitism and clique culture, C) believe there needs to be doting or a concerted forum effort to find and create these "beginner"-tier roleplays for people who let themselves get shy or intimidated.

Okay, next bolded part. WOW! I'm not a fan of reservations either, but this was totally uncalled for. Reserving a spot doesn't make someone lazy or uninspired or whatever you were trying to say by this. This is extremely insulting to anyone who likes using and allowing reservations and I really think you should have thought this through before you said it. I think this part is just as, if not more, elitist than the last bolded section. Not reserving doesn't somehow make you the better person and reserving doesn't make you detrimental to an RP as you implied.
"Reserving a spot doesn't make someone"--

This is where we stop. You with rephrasing something to become a causation, again. How you get to this point is a mystery. I'd offer you to reread my post again to understand what I said, but I'm beginning to think you can't.

And I think Quest may have worded this part a bit poorly here or maybe that was how he felt about it. With how quickly people are accepted here on RPC, a full set of reservations almost guarantees that the RP is going to be full straight away. People rarely drop or miss their reservation so another person can jump in. It's even less likely that you'll be accepted despite a reservation. Not signing up because of that isn't a weakness or whatever you are trying to imply here.
I think at this point I'm writing for the reader and not specifically to whom I'm responding. If you read my previous post, you see my points about, right? I didn't imply the last line in any way, shape, or form, no? Good. I'm glad you understand that I was stating an issue I've found specific to sustaining reserves, my feelings about sustained reserves as a GM and as a player, and how I feel it could be avoided by doing away with them.

With 50+ RPers here in the RPC (according to Ice's post) I don't think it's unrealistic to expect to see more than a couple of faces around here. Especially with the high level of traffic the entire site gets. I think it's really really hard to believe that out of the thousands of people on PC, less than 100 have the desire to RP.
You get upwards a thousand guests on PC looking at any and everything, not necessarily members and just browsing for their own reasons, unable to post. Then we have a couple hundred registered and logged in users doing the same thing, but posting. Yes, it's believable that a handful of these members are into something as niche as writing role-plays. PC doesn't sell itself on posting role-plays. It's a giant source to go to for ROM hacks and tools and resources concerning them. That is, if not one of, its major appeals.



If I must be so frank--as if I wasn't before, this thread, much like the responses I addressed, is confused, and may even so quickly perceive offense. I feel this was a venting thread that tried to make itself look like it was open to discussion. Instead, it's buffeting, only to turn right back around and re-assert the first post and proposals. Circular. Unproductive. So since this has the fanning of a vent thread, the original poster should just outright tell everyone what she wants to happen since she will not hear other propositions trying to figure out what would please her. And I do say what would please her because the tide of this thread is noticeably against her, as in making this thread, she is taking on the stance to advocate for new players where new players have said to her that they were welcomed just fine, and old players who returned said they got over themselves and then felt welcomed.

To the person who managed to get through all the rubbish of back and forth and you ended up here, let me tell you, don't be afraid to take the first step and reach out. Moderators or role-players whose posts you've read and admire, have some confidence to ask some questions and make a peer. The only person who can make yourself known is you.

gimmepie

Age 27
Male
Australia
Seen 7 Hours Ago
Posted 16 Hours Ago
Just in addition to all these other points, can I point out that there actually are resources for new or struggling RPers? They're located in the Starter Pad - a location I personally feel should be a rather obvious place for beginners to check out (although this is something we are looking into).

For anyone who hasn't noticed these resources they can be found here.
RPWLA&MVGGaming Journal

SV

See You Space Cowboy

Male
Seen February 7th, 2022
Posted June 26th, 2019
3,393 posts
12.1 Years
Hi, I'm SV.

I'm still around PC and the RPT as a Roleplayer, though I wouldn't say I'm as active as I once was. Kikpanther's pique activity was at about the same time mine was. At that time, one could argue it was pretty, as the phrase was used here, 'elitist'. That's because there actually were groups who excluded and who tried to create more advance RPs to play among friends or certain people.

Kikpanther doesn't visit PC as often as she used to, but she still pops on here, and her coming here and believing that it still has traces of this 'elitism' might have something to it.

In my opinion, 'elitism' or 'cliques' may not exactly be the right words to describe it, but the RPT has definitely evolved. Single posts are a thing of the past in many roleplays. Not entirely for the wrong reasons, and not entirely for the negative. True we do have skype groups now, and pads for joint posts. These are actually pretty great things. It makes communication easier and posts go by faster.

But there is an element of exclusion to them. Not everyone is going to be receptive to skype groups, and pads. It took our very own gimmepie a while for him to get on skype for our One Piece skype group, for example. Others in my RPs refused to get skype, or to use JPs, and relied on single posts. Most of these happened to be newer players. I wouldn't say all, but it happens.

So the real problem comes in when we do run into a roleplayer who wants to join an RP, but doesn't want to go through the process of getting a skype or joining pads for whatever reason that may be. Obviously, a GM should accommodate, right? But you can run into various problems because of that. Conflicting posting, exclusion of people doing singles and those in joint posts, not enough info about what's going on. The GM could act as the liaison between the two sects, but you can already see a problem here.

Or we can try to get them to join in the skype, jp fun. This could be intimidating. I've seen it happen before. Some leave the RP because of it. I wouldn't say this happens often. Usually, people are more than happy to join in on the fun this way. Take it from the fresh faces who posted here, for example. But let's not deny that there is some difficulty with meshing these two different RPing styles.

Is this cliques or elitism? I don't really think so. Maybe in a sense, but what we really have is two different evolving systems that are converging on one another. It's a system of convenience versus a system of preference. They won't always mix together.

Possible solutions? Maybe give people heads up (as I'm sure many do) about skype groups and joint posting. Try to get new people more comfortable with it too. Show them examples, be supportive maybe! Honestly, I don't think it should be made into as big of a conversation as we made it here. Not that this wasn't entertaining to read (well, the parts I did read. You guys write a lot). We could also try to accomodate those who don't want to be apart of the skype stuff but still want to be in the RP. Again, I'm sure good GMs already do this, but hey, worth mentioning again.

If any of my ideas were repeated previously or if this doesn't entirely relate to the topic at hand, apologies. I just wanted to state a few things on my mind as well.

-My name's SV, and I approve of this message.


A Legend once told me that roleplaying is about bringing people together and celebrating creative vision.
Paired with the Artsy Infinite and the Spectacular Shak

Ice

Seen October 16th, 2022
Posted February 3rd, 2020
3,448 posts
8.8 Years




Let's take a look, then!




So, from of this list, we have:

- 13 roleplays
- 10 different GMs
- 143 player characters (Assuming each player only had one. I think I counted this right)
- 74 individual players.

Don't believe me? Here's the players list you provided, without repeated names.

Spoiler:
Fire
Jegretis
Oddball_
SV
Godzil
Lord Sphear
The Last Sentinel
JohnnyMustang
Legend
gimmiepie
Greiger
aeternum
circuit
Ice Goddess
Foxrally
Shak
Infinite
GreyBidoof
Varys
SkyisUmbreon
Yukari
Nagi
Ice
Himika
Deceptio
ShaymieTheShaymin
LinearAxel
Dragon
Loki
Fennekin210
The Nero
Desinishon
dud190
FireSnow
killer150
Crescent Moon
STARDU5T
Icy
Sheraku
Gelius3
Julius Caeser
TheSignWriter
Disclosed
Chicken Fingers
Foreal
Merlin
Cheshire Cat
Sir General Admiral Fancy Swank
Machomuu
Omicron
Fairy
DLMuerte
Milotic
Davepetasprite^2
Hopeless Masquerade
Tokio
Ozymandias
EternalSushi
Daydream
Plumbum
Kikpanther
Lucifer-San
Nakuzami
Under_Score
Sir Bastion
drunk ¬_¬
{Swan}
<Challenger>
Andydemon
The Prince of Sweet Sorrow
GastlyGibus
Turnip
MurkMire
Pterosauria


In addition, none of the RPs had an identical player list.

It would seem that rather than "variation here and there", that each group is it's own entity, with a unique player list and theme.

That's the statistical data that's been provided so far.

You were saying, then?
Building off of this, this is only the active RPer list. A lot of RPs have people come and go a fair bit. Gunpowder for example, has been really "beginner" - friendly. It was the first RP for me and aeternum, but we're just the new blood that stuck. There have been over 20 players or so in that RP from all different amounts of experience. Other RPs had this too. Stars of Sinnoh mixed experienced people and new people, Redux is bringing us a lot of incredible new faces, I've heard Trumpets allowd for it too. The thing is, the new people that stick quickly become regulars, join multiple RPs and after a week or two you're just part of the RPT. They show up on the list multiple times, because they quickly joined different RPs after their first appearance.

I also have some comments about how Kikpanther distuingshes between "advanced" and "beginner", because it's honestly hard for me to put the RPs here in those categories, considering the traits aren't once that go together all that much. My break is ending though, so I can't go into detail until later, haha, or my boss'll get mad.

jombii

Crobat is ProBat

Male
Philippines
Seen June 28th, 2019
Posted April 13th, 2019
3,412 posts
8.9 Years
However, I don't think PC likes to behave like a space for beginner RPers. Instead, we have a lot of advanced RPs that intimidate our less skilled members and make it hard for them to improve and branch out.
At first, if you're really new to the area, I understand you would feel intimidated since everybody seemed to know everybody. You would stalk a player's profile and you would see another player having lengthy conversations about things that are not RP-related. You would see how are you's in real life and join long-existing conversations on Skype. However, this has been formed through a bond of thousands of RPs. Just jump into one, know the area, meet some people. All of us are more than willing to help new players. We can't make them take the fall, but we sure can catch them.

Also, I designed Trumpets to be really beginner friendly. While I am not really the most easily-accepting GM, I tried to point out flaws on SUs and areas on improvement. If that isn't helping out in learning the straws around here, I don't know what is.

Kikpanther

Not a beginner that's for sure

Female
Louisiana
Seen December 18th, 2020
Posted May 4th, 2020
674 posts
14.1 Years
Posting a lot earlier than I expected to. This is really just an attempt to get the thread on the topic it should be: Making RPC a better place for Beginners/Improving RPC.



So, from of this list, we have:

- 13 roleplays
- 10 different GMs
- 143 player characters (Assuming each player only had one. I think I counted this right)
- 74 individual players.

Don't believe me? Here's the players list you provided, without repeated names.

Spoiler:
Fire
Jegretis
Oddball_
SV
Godzil
Lord Sphear
The Last Sentinel
JohnnyMustang
Legend
gimmiepie
Greiger
aeternum
circuit
Ice Goddess (Not accounted for)
Foxrally
Shak
Infinite
GreyBidoof
Varys
SkyisUmbreon (Hasn't participated in RPC since Dec. but posted in Meta Journey earlier this month)
Yukari (has not participated in RPC since As the Dust Settles)
Nagi
Ice
Himika (Not accounted for)
Deceptio
ShaymieTheShaymin
LinearAxel
Dragon
Loki
Fennekin210
The Nero
Desinishon
dud190
FireSnow
killer150
Crescent Moon
STARDU5T
Icy (Not accounted for, possibly a dummy account)
Sheraku
Gelius3
Julius Caeser (Not accounted for)
TheSignWriter
Disclosed (hiatus)
Chicken Fingers
Foreal
Merlin
Cheshire Cat (Not Accounted for)
Sir General Admiral Fancy Swank (Not accounted for)
Machomuu (last RPC post Dec. 31st)
Omicron
Fairy
DLMuerte (has not participated in the RPC since Jan 1st. Before that was absent since Nov. 23)
Milotic (Not accounted for, possibly a dummy account)
Davepetasprite^2 (Has not participated in RPC since Jan. 13th)
Hopeless Masquerade (Not accounted for)
Tokio
Ozymandias (Posted in to commend FAHS Jan 26th. Before that had been absent since Oct. 30)
EternalSushi
Daydream
Plumbum
Kikpanther
Lucifer-San
Nakuzami (has not posted in the RPC since Jan 16)
Under_Score (Not accounted for)
Sir Bastion (Not accounted for)
drunk ¬_¬
{Swan}
<Challenger>
Andydemon
The Prince of Sweet Sorrow (Not accounted for)
GastlyGibus
Turnip
MurkMire
Pterosauria


In addition, none of the RPs had an identical player list.

It would seem that rather than "variation here and there", that each group is it's own entity, with a unique player list and theme.

That's the statistical data that's been provided so far.

You were saying, then?
I was told that I didn't really display this information correctly. I really just took all of the threads from the first page and put them together, but this apparently wasn't a good idea since the people in older threads are not active on the RPC anymore.

I've edited the list in the quote. Some names are taken out because they're only found in Odyssey. Other than that, names crossed out are people who have not been active in the RPC for at least a month. Marks have been put on other names for notable absences. Names labeled not accounted for are users that for some reason no longer exist. The ones labeled dummy are because the user statistics did not match what is shown on the forum (for example, Icy was shown not to have visited the forum since 2005).

I think this cuts down the list of unique users quite a bit. I found this information using the search user function (http://www.pokecommunity.com/member.php?username=(usernamehere)). I was going to add more information, but I realized it wasn't helpful.


------

Gimmiepie I'm addressing your post here since I accidentally deleted what I said. I really don't want to write it again so here's the important stuff:

What I mentioned in this thread:

-Stickied welcome thread so new users can show their faces.
-Public RPT chat either through Skype or a client like Discord. Allows for meeting new people, having discussions, and passing ideas easily.
-Updated RP guides and more created RP guides. Update existing ones with more detail, I'm sure the authors have new experiences they can share to help others by now. A wider range of topics would help not only beginners but existing members as well
-Encourage the creation of more beginner RPs. If they're made by advanced rpers, having an environment for positive growth should happen (not required ofc).

Things I didn't mention but still can be done:

-More RPC-wide events (like the RPOs) that encourage meeting new people, collaboration, and all that good stuff.

I think that was it. If I remember more I'll put it in this thread (I might have had one or two more) another time.

-SNIP SNOP-
I'm choosing not to continue this with you for reasons, one of the biggest being that I don't believe letting it go on and on will really help the discussion out. If you for whatever really REALLY want a response I'd suggest trying to Skype thing or use another medium altogether.

I also have some comments about how Kikpanther distuingshes between "advanced" and "beginner", because it's honestly hard for me to put the RPs here in those categories, considering the traits aren't once that go together all that much. My break is ending though, so I can't go into detail until later, haha, or my boss'll get mad.
The way I distinguish advanced is beginner is from what I have observed from other RPing mediums. It's more of an easier way to say "unkilled writer" and "skilled writer" than anything. If the connotation of beginner and advanced is really that bad you and no one else is obligated to use it of course. It's just a convenient way to quickly get the point across.

Also, I designed Trumpets to be really beginner friendly. While I am not really the most easily-accepting GM, I tried to point out flaws on SUs and areas on improvement. If that isn't helping out in learning the straws around here, I don't know what is.
You're doing fine. :)



Okay so that's all of the responses for now. Maybe it's because I'm tired, but if I didn't respond to something it's because I didn't think it necessarily warranted a response.
Anya Odile // Bae'd to Quest // The Frozen Gate

gimmepie

Age 27
Male
Australia
Seen 7 Hours Ago
Posted 16 Hours Ago
-Snip-
I'll get back to you on your individual requests later, for now I'm just going to point out your list is still flawed. Firstly, you've forgotten to account for name changes having disregarded several people that have been active but have simply changed their names.

Secondly, your treating people who haven't been active for a week or so the same as people who have been absent for months, that makes no sense when many of the active RPs are quite slow moving.

Thirdly, people who have only just returned obviously still count just as much as anyone else. You yourself being case-in-point.
RPWLA&MVGGaming Journal

Ice

Seen October 16th, 2022
Posted February 3rd, 2020
3,448 posts
8.8 Years
-snip-
I'm going to address multiple of your statements, and I'm going to also suggest you talk to some people that have been more active here because things that you propose are either happening, being discussed, or have been publically rejected as bad ideas. The crossed out version of your members list is also wrong, as multiple of those people are actually still active here.

The welcome thread does in fact already exist, in the form of the starting pad. Any questions are free to be asked there, related to technicalities, or just to get to know the place. And on top of that, as long as a thread doesn't take on a DCC-like nature, there isn't much of a limit as to what threads can be. There is a lot of possibility for newer people to talk to others her and get their name out there.

Writing a guide is a lot of work, and being in RPs already added onto that doesn't make it so that a lot of people have both the will and time to do so. I personally would love for there to be more guides, but realistically, people share the reasons as to why I haven't made one: time, motivation, and trust in personal skill. But I do encourage anyone to make guides! If you feel there is a need for them, I'm going to suggest you make them yourself, because otherwise they won't appear. If the visible need for it is small, there won't be much provided, as people don't see the need to write these guides. Past guides and resources have not been that active, and tend to sink to the bottom quickly. The last resource we had here has not been used, and the last guide has a very low amount of views, even though it was advertised for a while, and is now intergrated in the starting pad. While the things are really nice to have, because they absolutely will help someone, I don't think they will actually serve a purpose for the biggest part of the people that visit here.

Using your definition of beginner RP, I can actually pick out a lot of them. Keep in mind that posts being longer than a paragraph or two does not mean they have to be, and I can't see a single one that actually has a minimum post length, so that's a factor I don't account for. Post length is really just personal preference.

The ones that fit your definition are:
Pokemon Mystery Dungeon
Melodies of Gandala
Redux: The Sinnoh Stories
Trumpets: Hoenn chronicles
Once Upon a Time
And of course, Pokemon Trainer Academy

I'd include Gunpowder on that list too, but that one doesn't anymore, since it's not open for sign ups anymore. For a long while, though, that did fit the definition completely. But even without Gunpowder, the list of RPs that suit your definition is 6 long, which is a good number, I'd say, considering there 15 RPs that have had posts this month.

We just had an event, actually! It didn't get that many actual posts in, but initial enthusiasm was great, and I loved writing for it. The way I set it up was as a test run for an event system in which we get rid of winning. Basically, events go from player v. player to player v. the rp, in a way that awards points for making posts. It takes away the competitive edge, allowing people to try it out without being scared of not being up to par and therefore not achieving anything, or feeling like they had lost. The new version just awarded points for creativity, posting, and interacting, and the emblems people received were santa getting fitter and in better shape the more points people got. There's a goal, but there is no winning state, allowing for people to casually enjoy it, and they can be as unexperienced or experienced as they are without fear of losing. We certainly wanna do more events and continue the frequency that has been said by previous years. Too many events just burn people out, in all honesty.

We've actually had an RPOlympics this year, the turn-out, partly do to me own fault, was just very bare, and the events were generally more suited for FF&W than the RPT in my honest opinion. If it'll return is something I don't know, it might do in another form, or just at another time period than it was last year, we'll see. It's not like we have a huge need for events currently, as we're always working on something, but as I mentioned above, you don't want to oversatifsy the section. Personally, I'm not huge on the RPOs because of their scale, and prefer something more cooperative and allows for more casual participation, that doesn't overload people with the sudden appearance of multiple events.

The way you distinguish between beginner and advanced is not something I'm against in concept, it's just that the classifications you've made are things I don't agree with. The RPs I've seen with shorter posts are the ones that are actually quite plot heavy, and require a lot of dedication, while the longform RPs for example allow for a more casual RPing experience. I don't think post length has anything to do with it. I've discussed it earlier today, albeit not here, but I think it's honestly just subject matter. People that make an account specifically for the RPT are probably in search of a pokemon RP, and did not join in the hope of there being a magic cowboy or supernatural historic RP here. People that join for other parts of the forum and decide to check the RPT out later might be less inclined to be specifically out for a PokeRP. They might be, but they might also just check the section out for the notion of RPing, and not for RPing on a pokemon forum. What I notice is that the Pokemon RPs attract new blood more easily than the Other RPs, no matter what classification they would receive.

moon

they/them
Seen 11 Hours Ago
Posted 23 Hours Ago
37,443 posts
15.5 Years
-Stickied welcome thread so new users can show their faces.
We have that in the Starting Pad. Perhaps it could be made less intimidating though? We have an idea up for discussion about that right now, so this isn't something we're not thinking of in the forum lead.

-Public RPT chat either through Skype or a client like Discord. Allows for meeting new people, having discussions, and passing ideas easily.
Sharing ideas and discussing RP things was exactly what the Theatre was created for! The reason all the roleplaying is now done in subforums is so that we can have a bigger spot than one stickied "DCC" to discuss general things in. You can basically make a thread on anything RP related here, even of the casual friendly kind. Heck, I've made "one-liner" RPs in the Theatre just to bring some coziness and we had lots of fun imo c: a Skype chat, I don't see as necessary for the reasons you state here. Which might also explain further why there was just a big friend group consisting of roleplayers from here, rather than an officially sanctioned extention of the RPT. But the skype group thing too is being considered atm, so let's hope we can decide something that is the best for our community.

-Updated RP guides and more created RP guides. Update existing ones with more detail, I'm sure the authors have new experiences they can share to help others by now. A wider range of topics would help not only beginners but existing members as well
If you think there should be guides, make guides! And tell your friends to make them c: it's not the job of the moderators to supply lengthy resources for the RP community, rather it is certainly up to each and every individual to helo out with that and push others in the right direction if they see that a change shiuld be made. Basically: be the change you want to see.

-Encourage the creation of more beginner RPs. If they're made by advanced rpers, having an environment for positive growth should happen (not required ofc).
Again, be the change you want to see. Talking about it in a thread like this might help some, of course, as it makes people aware of a solution to a possible problem. Let's hope it does help and people keep it in mind c:

-More RPC-wide events (like the RPOs) that encourage meeting new people, collaboration, and all that good stuff.
This, I'd say are constantly working on! We have several ideas in store, and any RPT member is welcome to suggest events of course, so we can fit them into our event schedule~


All in all, I don't think the problems you have touched upon are big enough to be riled up about, but there is also nothing wrong with always striving towards a better section. Let's hope something good comes out of this.
paired with Ivysaur

Kikpanther

Not a beginner that's for sure

Female
Louisiana
Seen December 18th, 2020
Posted May 4th, 2020
674 posts
14.1 Years
Now that I've actually gone to sleep I've come back to address some things that I forgot to re-add to my previous post. I had written a reply to JohnnyMustang that got deleted but forgot to rewrite what I left out. Sorry to Mustang for that, didn't mean to disregard your statements. I'll also rewrite what I had to gimmiepie before the deletion in the same reply.

I also forgot to add in another statement that was deleted. If anyone still has an issue with whatever point or answer to a statement from the previous conversation, please send me a private message either through here or Skype to further discuss it. Or make another thread. If you don't have my Skype then you can get it from someone else on the forum. I really don't want to put it here.

If you're already doing it; then what's the problem? You said that main point of the thread was that there wasn't a beginners RP.

You can't expect a general enthusiasm just by making a thread. As I said; creating a roleplay takes a lot of time. I'm pretty sure everyone wants their RPs to be as cool as it can be.

Also, I know of absolutely 0 beginners intimidated by the "advanced RPs" I was one of them, and I one of four other users that saw a ropleplay they liked and automatically applied for it. Two of them being non-native english speakers, as I am. I would like to know where are you getting the idea that new users feels intimidated by said RPs. What I do know is that some feels intimidated by the use of CSS.

What I can say is that maybe, GMs should be a little more flexible about grammar and stuff; given that the PokeCommunity is a world wide forum and there will be new users that do not speak english very well, like me.
The point of the thread was that RPC isn't as beginner-friendly as it should be, not that we don't have any beginner threads. If I just wanted at least one then, yes, making one myself would have instantly solved the problem.

When it comes to beginners being intimidated by advanced RPs, the initial start of the thread was based on my observations elsewhere. People who don't consider themselves skilled writers and don't have the same confidence as you or others who just jump into RPs do find advanced RPs intimidating. I have seen this throughout my time RPing. This issue might not be as common on PC but that isn't true for a lot of RPing websites. We don't know where our new RPers are coming from. For whatever reason they're intimidated, the point is that they are intimidated and we should give them the confidence boost that they need to really integrate into RPC.

I'd like to go into say that this is the problem with anecdotal evidence. It's useful and it shouldn't be disregarded entirely, but anecdotal evidence rarely disproves a claim. The argument here is that RPC doesn't actively encourage intimidated beginners to really get into the forum. If you were never an intimidated beginner (or new member to the forum or whatever we're going by) then your experience doesn't necessarily make the claim untrue. It's evidence against the claim, but it doesn't disprove anything. What I said would really be in trouble if everything that came out of this was purely hypothetical and not a single person ever felt intimidated by the RPers here on the forum. However, about as many people who were intimidated by PC when they came around have spoken up just as the people who aren't intimidated. The fact that people spoke up about being intimidated helps my case. Sure, the members were able to integrate into the RPC eventually by their own confidence, but (for the most part, if I remember correctly) they did this on their own, not because they were encouraged by the RPC which further helps what I'm saying. I don't think that it would be unreasonable to say that if these members didn't possess their level of confidence they may not have been as connected in the RPC. The point of this thread is to help members who are not as confident as you, not cater only to the ones who are.

The biggest argument in this thread against this is that it's not anyone's fault if a user lacks the confidence to become part of the RPC community. That's true, but I think it's a bit insensitive to leave them on their own when a few changes to the forum could give them the confidence to get into the community. Especially if everyone is as willing to help as they say they are. I don't think we need to wait for someone to put themselves out there before we try to encourage and befriend them.

I'll get back to you on your individual requests later, for now I'm just going to point out your list is still flawed. Firstly, you've forgotten to account for name changes having disregarded several people that have been active but have simply changed their names.

Secondly, your treating people who haven't been active for a week or so the same as people who have been absent for months, that makes no sense when many of the active RPs are quite slow moving.

Thirdly, people who have only just returned obviously still count just as much as anyone else. You yourself being case-in-point.
I'm sorry but I don't think this can really be counted as a genuine statement. The edited list I received was made out to be accurate by both GreyBidoof and Ice. It was called the active users list. If that was the case, all of the information on it should be accurate. If there is a known name change or duplicates then that should be edited into the list to reflect the reality of the membership for the RPC. If you consider me a member who only just returned you can't honestly expect me to know every single name change that may or may not be on the list or know which RPs are slower than others. I showed where I got my information from. Based off of the searches the re-edited list is accurate. People who are crossed out that have logged in the forum recently are crossed out because they haven't posted in the RPT for over a month, which I stated. I don't think you can honestly be considered an active member in the forum if you have been absent for a month unless you've been working on a single post for an entire month. I haven't crossed out any other names other than those, so I don't understand where you got the "treating people who have been gone for a week the same as people who have been gone for months" idea from. People who have notable lengths of absences (which are all over a week with the exception of one person) have their last post noted. They aren't crossed out. They're still considered somewhat active members, but it reflects the current state of the membership here if they have been absent for a long time.

If the list of active users was inaccurate the moment GreyBidoof gave it to me I don't see how you could expect for it to be suddenly accurate when I edit it based on the information I was given. I also don't see how you could expect me to know who changed their name when and to what if you think that I've only just returned to the forum. Honestly, I've been on the forum since at least 2013 and since the creation of the RPT Chat on Skype I've only really tried to keep up with people's Skype names. I only keep up with usernames if they're someone I regularly talk to. Even if I was posting as often as everyone else, if I don't talk to everyone on the forum regularly, I'm not really sure how I'm expected to keep up with every single name change.


...

The welcome thread does in fact already exist, in the form of the starting pad. Any questions are free to be asked there, related to technicalities, or just to get to know the place. And on top of that, as long as a thread doesn't take on a DCC-like nature, there isn't much of a limit as to what threads can be. There is a lot of possibility for newer people to talk to others her and get their name out there.
The welcome thread exists within the Starting Pad, but it goes largely unnoticed. If you look at the thread you'll see that the only introductions there are from returning members, not new members. That makes me think that people don't see it as a welcome thread or don't notice it unless they've been here since about mid-2015. You could also argue that people don't want to introduce themselves, but I think that would be better proved by making a dedicated Welcome thread (preferably one that directs them to our resources) apart from the Starting Pad. Other than that I only see that the Starting Pad has been used for general questions about the rules (which makes me think they should be updated (if they already haven't been) to include those answered questions) more so than anything else.

The Starting Pad's lack of activity may also be because it's not properly advertised. As much as I love the idea for the Meta Thread, I think a list of rules and guidelines is a much more important link for users to see no matter where they are in the forum.

E: For the statement about talking to more active members, I don't really see where the things you listed have been talked about publicly. I might not post everywhere but I do look at the threads. I know a lot of this happens in the RPT Chat which is why I think it should be more public. A lot of creativity happens there.


Writing a guide is a lot of work, and being in RPs already added onto that doesn't make it so that a lot of people have both the will and time to do so. I personally would love for there to be more guides, but realistically, people share the reasons as to why I haven't made one: time, motivation, and trust in personal skill. But I do encourage anyone to make guides! If you feel there is a need for them, I'm going to suggest you make them yourself, because otherwise they won't appear. If the visible need for it is small, there won't be much provided, as people don't see the need to write these guides. Past guides and resources have not been that active, and tend to sink to the bottom quickly. The last resource we had here has not been used, and the last guide has a very low amount of views, even though it was advertised for a while, and is now intergrated in the starting pad. While the things are really nice to have, because they absolutely will help someone, I don't think they will actually serve a purpose for the biggest part of the people that visit here.
I honestly don't think a guide being a lot of work to make is really a good excuse not to make one. Nothing good comes without hard work, after all. I'm sure someone might be willing to make one if the need for one was advertised. As for trust in personal skill, that can easily be backed up by research if it must be. If we aren't all confident that the information will be accurate then we can have a requirement that guides need to have some backing behind it (out of site guides, for example) to be posted. What would be even less work is to find a list of guides online. There are thousands of writing help guides out there and you can find really good ones with a little digging. We could easily link to these guides to help out users who don't know where to start. Whether it be with their own writing or with how to research RP guides for whatever they need.

The low amount of views may owe to the low amount of users we have, but I don't think that's a good reason not to make the guides. The guides will help anyone who views them and that should be good enough. All of the guides don't have to be about grammar and syntax. There are many more aspects to RPing (as you know) that can help beginners and current members with their RPing skills.


Using your definition of beginner RP, I can actually pick out a lot of them. Keep in mind that posts being longer than a paragraph or two does not mean they have to be, and I can't see a single one that actually has a minimum post length, so that's a factor I don't account for. Post length is really just personal preference.

The ones that fit your definition are:
Pokemon Mystery Dungeon
Melodies of Gandala
Redux: The Sinnoh Stories
Trumpets: Hoenn chronicles
Once Upon a Time
And of course, Pokemon Trainer Academy

I'd include Gunpowder on that list too, but that one doesn't anymore, since it's not open for sign ups anymore. For a long while, though, that did fit the definition completely. But even without Gunpowder, the list of RPs that suit your definition is 6 long, which is a good number, I'd say, considering there 15 RPs that have had posts this month.
As I said before, the definitions of beginner/advanced/intermediate are based on what I have seen in other RP spaces. Even there these definitions are not strict rules. Beginner RPs don't have to fit every single point to be a Beginner RP. Some Beginner RPs are Beginner RPs because they're targeted towards beginners. Other Beginner RPs are Beginner RPs because they're made by someone who has never made an RP before/doesn't have a lot of skill in making an RP.

I'm pretty sure I stated this before but the definitions I listed were general, not absolute.

I'm glad that we have some Beginner RPs on the forum now. Though I do know we have Beginner RPs. Maybe I didn't make this totally clear, but I'm more focused on the active encouragement of the creation of Beginner RPs. Not just that they exist. That means though the forms of guides on making an RP/world building/plot building/NPC building to help people who don't really know how to make an RP start off strong. I also mean that in more advanced RPers making Beginner RPs that focus on plot and improvement. Obviously, I don't mean they have to do this. Anyone can make whatever RP they want to. That's why I have been focused on encouragement and not force.

Though I do kind of think we need a new PTA. I know Yellow is trying to keep it alive but it doesn't look like posts come in as often as they used to? It is sad to see the end of a legacy but I think it might be ending. =/


We just had an event, actually! It didn't get that many actual posts in, but initial enthusiasm was great, and I loved writing for it. The way I set it up was as a test run for an event system in which we get rid of winning. Basically, events go from player v. player to player v. the rp, in a way that awards points for making posts. It takes away the competitive edge, allowing people to try it out without being scared of not being up to par and therefore not achieving anything, or feeling like they had lost. The new version just awarded points for creativity, posting, and interacting, and the emblems people received were santa getting fitter and in better shape the more points people got. There's a goal, but there is no winning state, allowing for people to casually enjoy it, and they can be as unexperienced or experienced as they are without fear of losing. We certainly wanna do more events and continue the frequency that has been said by previous years. Too many events just burn people out, in all honesty.

We've actually had an RPOlympics this year, the turn-out, partly do to me own fault, was just very bare, and the events were generally more suited for FF&W than the RPT in my honest opinion. If it'll return is something I don't know, it might do in another form, or just at another time period than it was last year, we'll see. It's not like we have a huge need for events currently, as we're always working on something, but as I mentioned above, you don't want to oversatifsy the section. Personally, I'm not huge on the RPOs because of their scale, and prefer something more cooperative and allows for more casual participation, that doesn't overload people with the sudden appearance of multiple events.

The way you distinguish between beginner and advanced is not something I'm against in concept, it's just that the classifications you've made are things I don't agree with. The RPs I've seen with shorter posts are the ones that are actually quite plot heavy, and require a lot of dedication, while the longform RPs for example allow for a more casual RPing experience. I don't think post length has anything to do with it. I've discussed it earlier today, albeit not here, but I think it's honestly just subject matter. People that make an account specifically for the RPT are probably in search of a pokemon RP, and did not join in the hope of there being a magic cowboy or supernatural historic RP here. People that join for other parts of the forum and decide to check the RPT out later might be less inclined to be specifically out for a PokeRP. They might be, but they might also just check the section out for the notion of RPing, and not for RPing on a pokemon forum. What I notice is that the Pokemon RPs attract new blood more easily than the Other RPs, no matter what classification they would receive.
Was the event you just mentioned stickied? Admittedly I only have time to really look through PC on the weekends because of my schedule, but I haven't seen anything about an event. Maybe I just didn't notice it? And did it not get a lot of posts because other people didn't notice it or because there wasn't a lot of interest?

And I know we've done an RPO for last year. I participated in it. I was using it more as an example than to say we should do it now. I understand the existing problems with the RPOs.


I also disagree that subject matter has much to do with post length. I don't think people would be less inclined to make long posts just because it's about Pokemon. I also disagree many people don't come here because they don't want to RP about Pokemon since we have a pretty good amount of non-Pokemon RPs. Sometimes that becomes the majority. If the problem might be that people don't want to RP Pokemon then I think the RPC should better advertise that any type of RP is allowed here, not just Pokemon.

-Stickied welcome thread so new users can show their faces.
We have that in the Starting Pad. Perhaps it could be made less intimidating though? We have an idea up for discussion about that right now, so this isn't something we're not thinking of in the forum lead.
I don't think it's intimidating as it is unnoticed.


-Public RPT chat either through Skype or a client like Discord. Allows for meeting new people, having discussions, and passing ideas easily.
Sharing ideas and discussing RP things was exactly what the Theatre was created for! The reason all the roleplaying is now done in subforums is so that we can have a bigger spot than one stickied "DCC" to discuss general things in. You can basically make a thread on anything RP related here, even of the casual friendly kind. Heck, I've made "one-liner" RPs in the Theatre just to bring some coziness and we had lots of fun imo c: a Skype chat, I don't see as necessary for the reasons you state here. Which might also explain further why there was just a big friend group consisting of roleplayers from here, rather than an officially sanctioned extention of the RPT. But the skype group thing too is being considered atm, so let's hope we can decide something that is the best for our community.
While the Theatre generates some nice discussion, I think RPT can be more than just a place that you post discussion topics. What about the community part where you just talk to friends and pass around RP and character ideas casually? It's not really that convenient to make an entire thread about one little idea, especially if it's not that fleshed out and you only want a few opinions before moving on to the next subject. I think making a public chat will also cut down on threads that have nice questions but don't garner much interest outside of a few people. Topics that have a lot of good input will be put in the Theatre when everyone sees how popular the discussion is.

Someone posted earlier that they liked how organic the RPT Chat was versus the forums. Why not give that to everyone? There seems to be a reluctance to "give up" the RPT Chat, but I don't understand why it has to be that way? If there's a friend chat then there's a friend chat. Just make a real RPT Chat also. I don't think we have to lose a potential space to cultivate discussion and friendships just because the majority of the people who would be in that chat would also be in the friend chat.

Honestly, RPs here are leaning more towards discussion on mediums like Skype. The actual thread posting part is becoming obsolete. I'm not saying you have to get rid of it, but I think the addition of an online chat is more in sync with the rest of the forum. I also think that a lot more talking will happen there than in the main RPT.


-Updated RP guides and more created RP guides. Update existing ones with more detail, I'm sure the authors have new experiences they can share to help others by now. A wider range of topics would help not only beginners but existing members as well
If you think there should be guides, make guides! And tell your friends to make them c: it's not the job of the moderators to supply lengthy resources for the RP community, rather it is certainly up to each and every individual to helo out with that and push others in the right direction if they see that a change shiuld be made. Basically: be the change you want to see.
I know it's not up to the moderators to supply anything. I'm not saying they have to do everything themselves. This is a proposal for an initiative to happen throughout the RPC, not just with me. I already said this, but I can't do everything by myself. If there's already the idea that guides are too time consuming to make you can't honestly expect me to make every single guide by myself right? With the 50+ active members here and the amount of people who have said they were willing to help, I don't really think this needs to be limited to just me and a couple of friends. Especially when a dedicated guide source (like a single thread or maybe some kind of newsletter format) as I would like to do would have to be discussed between the mods anyways.

This is about making ideas for us all to participate in as a community. Not things that I can do when I collect the spare time.


-Encourage the creation of more beginner RPs. If they're made by advanced rpers, having an environment for positive growth should happen (not required ofc).
Again, be the change you want to see. Talking about it in a thread like this might help some, of course, as it makes people aware of a solution to a possible problem. Let's hope it does help and people keep it in mind c:
I've already talked about what I am/am not doing in this thread more than once. It ends the same way as the above. I can't do everything by myself.


-More RPC-wide events (like the RPOs) that encourage meeting new people, collaboration, and all that good stuff.
This, I'd say are constantly working on! We have several ideas in store, and any RPT member is welcome to suggest events of course, so we can fit them into our event schedule~


All in all, I don't think the problems you have touched upon are big enough to be riled up about, but there is also nothing wrong with always striving towards a better section. Let's hope something good comes out of this.
I don't think they are either and I'm still not 100% sure why people got upset about this in the first place. This is just a call for change in the RPT. I think if there's a recognized area for improvement (and others have made their own suggestions earlier) then we should try to improve it instead of ignore it.

I'm hoping that this actually turns into an initiative instead of a long thread.
Anya Odile // Bae'd to Quest // The Frozen Gate

Oddball_

Magical Senpai and god of the closet.

Age 24
They/Them
Seattle, WA
Seen 4 Weeks Ago
Posted May 17th, 2019
866 posts
8.5 Years
I'm not going to bother reading each and every post because oh lord this is quite long. But from the original point, you say its not beginner friendly. I join the RP(C)T almost exactly a year ago. I had no idea what I was doing, but I went through, read the rules, looked through some of the current roleplays and then I found one that was just starting. This RP was Begin Again, made by our lovely mod Rika whom is Fire atm I believe. Now this was my first ever Roleplay, however I was able to figure out what I was supposed to do and any problems I did have, I was able to get cleared up by just asking somebody. So from personal experience, I'd say I disagree. If you actually take the time to read the rules and ask questions if you have them its very beginner friendly. You just have to be willing to actually put the effort into learning how to "play" the "game."



Friends for Infinity
Paired to GreyBidoof| Magical Senpai |

"I've learned to be wary of his suggestions... he's consumed my life."

art by the amazing Infinite

Ice

Seen October 16th, 2022
Posted February 3rd, 2020
3,448 posts
8.8 Years
I did in fact point out that your list was wrong. In it's current form it can be used for player count, but not for activity check, because of the recent name changes.

The starting pad actually is as stickied as the meta journey is, and it is pinned to the splash. The only way to get it more advertised is to make it active again, which will bump it up from being a top of the forum to slightly more a top the forum. The guides and different style of "beginner" RPs exist! Creating more RPs in a similar vain might spread the audience thin, which is an acceltable issue when it happens on accident, but I don't wanna promoto an abundance of RPs appearing.

As I said earlier, quick-paced short post RPs are actually way more hardcore, and less suited for beginners than something that requires anywhere from 500 words a post. The interaction works differently, in a way that requires an awful lot of commitment. Posting orders will pop up, IC pace is really high. Short post RPs either need to be low on interaction, or slow paced to be casual. I've heard from people with jobs who just got passed by in interaction, because their financial needs kept them from posting, basically.

I don't expect you to write all guides, luckily, haha, but I don't expect anyone to write guides. I'd say dedication and time is a very good reason not to do something when it's a casual hobby. If someone decides to write a guide, I will praise and advertise it, but I, or the other mods, cannot force people to write guides. We can help them make their guide visible once it exists, but we as mods come in at that stage. Of course we could reward emblems for writing guides, and I would in less than a heartbeat, but it's not a commodity people care for too much. This discussion might motivate someone to write a guide, though, just by bringing up guides, so keep your fingers crossed :p The amount of views is also not because of a low amount of users, for one because there aren't, and two because other threads in the same atmosphere get views that quadruple the counter.

6 RPs that fit your bill out of 15, and up till recently it was 7. That's just shy off 50%, which makes me curious. How many 'beginner' RPs are needed in your optic? I'm always happy to just see an RP in general pop up, no matter the level, so if the balance became so that it was heavily skewed towards "beginner", I wouldn't mind that at all. I don't see an explicit need for them, considering we have a bunch already. The encouragement isn't needed for something that doesn't exist in a shortage. Once there is one, we might look into that.

Yes! The event was stickied, and garnered 4 pages lf activity OOC, with RPCorner veterans joining and people who never RPed before. But, the holidays aren't the best time for people to get out their device and start typing, so it became difficult for some.

I also did not say anywhere that pokemon RPs tend to have shorter posts. I can't see where that came from, looking back at my post. Both Other and Pokémon RPs have had their share of incredibly long and quite short posts. What my paragraph there can be boiled down to is that people who join a Pokémon forum for the roleplay section are looking for Pokémon roleplays. If there aren't many pokemon RPs that are starting up, people are less likely to join. That's something this discussion has made me realize, we need good indication for wether an RP is accepting or not. I also think it's pretty clear we allow non-pkmn RPs, I don't know where that came from all of a sudden.

About casually discussing character and RP ideas, that's something we encourage and allow in the RPT! There actually are 2/3 RP ideas that people wanna discuss here in a fun and casual manner. That's actively happening, and I don't know why you'd say it isn't, if I'm being honest. All discussion is also getting active attention, and that combined with the meta journey is spiking up a lot of casual chit-chat in threads about the subjects. The thread posting part is not becoming obsolete at all, no clue where you got that from. Older threads get revived quite regularly, a new one pops up every two days or so, and the forum is really where I see RPing discussed the most.

Skype/Discord group is something that is being discussed for a while now! That's mod talk, though, not gonna let too much of that spill over.

And no, you can't do everything yourself, but maybe once you start something other people seem to get interested in providing too. Once you make a spark that shows there is interest in the stuff your anecdotally providing us with, other people might see the positive feedback it gets. Currently this thread provides us with the opinion that these changes are needed, but no actual show off it, considering everyone argued against it. Once there is evidence of it, people might change their mind. I think people here, and I will fully include myself in there, just fail to see there is an issue. I don't think anyone is saying that more guides and RPs would be bad, and I'm not assuming you do either, but I do think that people don't see the need for the RPT to heavily focus on that area, considering those resources exist already.

moon

they/them
Seen 11 Hours Ago
Posted 23 Hours Ago
37,443 posts
15.5 Years
Someone posted earlier that they liked how organic the RPT Chat was versus the forums. Why not give that to everyone? There seems to be a reluctance to "give up" the RPT Chat, but I don't understand why it has to be that way? If there's a friend chat then there's a friend chat. Just make a real RPT Chat also. I don't think we have to lose a potential space to cultivate discussion and friendships just because the majority of the people who would be in that chat would also be in the friend chat.

Honestly, RPs here are leaning more towards discussion on mediums like Skype. The actual thread posting part is becoming obsolete. I'm not saying you have to get rid of it, but I think the addition of an online chat is more in sync with the rest of the forum. I also think that a lot more talking will happen there than in the main RPT.
You have chosen not to be part of this skype chat, as I understand it, so... I don't quite see how you can be making any claims about it's activity and uses at all?

As for skype vs OOC in RPs, I myself always advocate for important updates and plans in my RPs being discussed in OOC threads where it persists and people can see it. That should honestly be standard.
paired with Ivysaur

gimmepie

Age 27
Male
Australia
Seen 7 Hours Ago
Posted 16 Hours Ago
@kikpanther: I'm honestly failing to see why this discussion is still occurring. Every time I look in here, someone refutes your claims. Be that someone who is experienced and continuously active or someone who is quite new. The outcome is always the same though, everyone else on the planet besides you is wrong.

I appreciate your concern for the Theatre and I urge you and all our members to continue to do what you can to support the community. The fact everyone does their best to benefit the community here on PC is one of the reasons I love it here so much. At this point though, all that is going to happen from here on out is that people will continue to tell you that you're wrong and you'll continue to disagree and nothing will come of it.

As it stands everything you have told us that needs to happen is either already happening or is something that we mods are already discussing outside of the public eye. We have a dedicated place for resources, introductions and rules that is perfectly visible and obviously designed to be somewhere beginners should look - if they choose not to go there and introduce themselves or whatnot then it is their own fault. We are discussing the implementation of an official Skype/Discord room (I would much prefer Skype since I'm already moderating the Official Underground Skype chat amongst being parts of other groups). We have several guides in place and truth be told I am often thinking about writing more and we encourage our regulars to contribute to our resources. We are constantly planning new events, right now we have several events in the works and we often have regulars message us with their own ideas.

Everything you say we need, we have. What's more, we have no real demand for more of it outside of well... just you. I'm not going to close the thread or anything in case anyone has anything new they want to contribute, but personally I feel like we've pretty much come full circle now. Still, you might see some things we've been working on appearing in the near future so keep an eye out for that.
RPWLA&MVGGaming Journal

Mana

Age 31
Male
UK
Seen March 25th, 2023
Posted August 18th, 2021
10,075 posts
14.3 Years
I'm just going to chime in and say that Kikpanther makes good points. Rather than write crazy long posts making out that they're spewing evil lies about everything, look for the truth. Because any and all of the improvements they are suggesting would never hinder the community here, and only serve to help it.

There are flaws in RPT, there are flaws in most areas on PC. Accept that there is truth there rather than working so hard to deny it. I can see the mods are already on that path judging by the new skype thread.

RPT can seem intimidating to some new members. Of course some aren't intimidated, continue to post, and those are the ones replying here. Those who were intimidated and left probably aren't lurking ready to respond :c.

GreyBidoof

You used a Master Ball on the GreyBidoof!

Age 26
Male
Goldenrod City, Johto
Seen June 14th, 2020
Posted November 29th, 2018
774 posts
9 Years
I thought I was done here, until I read the following.

The edited list I received was made out to be accurate by both GreyBidoof and Ice.
Actually, I was refuting your claim that the current roleplays are made up of the same group of people. I did so by quoting a list that you provided yourself, in your previous post. I never mentioned accuracy, only that your own provided information contradicted your claims.

It was called the active users list.
By whom? Here's what I said:

So, from of this list, we have:

- 13 roleplays
- 10 different GMs
- 143 player characters (Assuming each player only had one. I think I counted this right)
- 74 individual players.

Don't believe me? Here's the players list you provided, without repeated names.
I don't see anything about me calling it an "active users list". In the case that you are implying you said that, here was your comment on the previous list of roleplays I sourced the data from:

As for the RPs made for certain people thing:

*DISCLAIMER: These lists are taken from the OP so please take into account any name changes. All of these lists are from RPs that are closed for applications/started/were made in 2015.
[list here]


There's variation here and there, but I think you can see there is a lot of the same people. It may not be intentional (and technically it's not against the rules) but it's happening.
I still don't see any mention of "active users" You were commenting on who was signing up for roleplays. That is not synonymous with being active in the theater, as people still post IC and participate in discussion.

If that was the case, all of the information on it should be accurate.
Based on the information you gave, it was. I was not attempting to provide you with any new statistics or do your research for you, merely pointing out that what you had presented was contrary to your point.

If there is a known name change or duplicates then that should be edited into the list to reflect the reality of the membership for the RPC. If you consider me a member who only just returned you can't honestly expect me to know every single name change that may or may not be on the list or know which RPs are slower than others.
Meanwhile back in my post...

Don't believe me? Here's the players list you provided, without repeated names.
Not sure what that's about then.

I showed where I got my information from. Based off of the searches the re-edited list is accurate.
As many members have pointed out, it isn't.

People who are crossed out that have logged in the forum recently are crossed out because they haven't posted in the RPT for over a month, which I stated. I don't think you can honestly be considered an active member in the forum if you have been absent for a month unless you've been working on a single post for an entire month. I haven't crossed out any other names other than those, so I don't understand where you got the "treating people who have been gone for a week the same as people who have been gone for months" idea from. People who have notable lengths of absences (which are all over a week with the exception of one person) have their last post noted. They aren't crossed out. They're still considered somewhat active members, but it reflects the current state of the membership here if they have been absent for a long time.
Here's the list again, with my own notes added.

Spoiler:
Fire
Jegretis
Oddball_
SV
Godzil
Lord Sphear
The Last Sentinel
JohnnyMustang
Legend
gimmiepie
Greiger
aeternum
circuit
Ice Goddess (Not accounted for) [The irony is that Anivia has responded to you in this very thread. She's far from inactive and has posted in As the Dust Settles recently.]
Foxrally
Shak
Infinite
GreyBidoof
Varys
SkyisUmbreon (Hasn't participated in RPC since Dec. but posted in Meta Journey earlier this month) [Sky is also active in As the Dust settles, and has posted a JP with another user recently.]
Yukari (has not participated in RPC since As the Dust Settles) [Yukari has indeed posted in AtDS, in which her last post is only a week old?]
Nagi
Ice
Himika (Not accounted for) [aka Frozen Heart, has posted recently as well.]

[...]

And the list goes on. I could go all the way down the list and recheck every user, but I don't need to to prove my point. Also note that both players you noted as dummy accounts are users that have both posted in a timeframe that would disagree with your thoughts, so you must have made an error in that regard. Despite this "editing", the list was honestly more accurate before you changed it.


If the list of active users was inaccurate the moment GreyBidoof gave it to me I don't see how you could expect for it to be suddenly accurate when I edit it based on the information I was given. I also don't see how you could expect me to know who changed their name when and to what if you think that I've only just returned to the forum.
Regardless of how accusatory that sounds, I'm going to repeat that I did not give you any information. Rather, I gave you back your own information, but with the RP titles removed and the duplicate players removed, for clarity. As for name changes, I don't think anyone expected you to know them or to go back and try to rework your previous argument using them.

Honestly, I've been on the forum since at least 2013 and since the creation of the RPT Chat on Skype I've only really tried to keep up with people's Skype names. I only keep up with usernames if they're someone I regularly talk to. Even if I was posting as often as everyone else, if I don't talk to everyone on the forum regularly, I'm not really sure how I'm expected to keep up with every single name change.
Honestly this part surprised me, considering the claims you've made about the problems within the RPT. From what I can tell, most of the errors made here were from simply being uninformed about the current status of the RPT. I'd encourage you to hang out with us some more; you'll get the chance to be part of the change you desire, and who knows, maybe your opinions may even change some. There are plenty of beginners and regulars alike who would love to interact with you, I'm sure.



Friends for Infinity
RPT | Titans | Theme Song | Pair

"Doofin' it up."

art by the churiffic Infinite

Swolligator

Butcher of the Sands

Age 31
Male
Syndicate HQ
Seen January 30th, 2017
Posted January 29th, 2017
1,955 posts
13.7 Years
For those of you renouncing that the RPC doesn't have an elitism problem, I'm sorry to say but it always has and it always will. It was there when I first started, I can tell you first hand that I was a major part of it during my tenure here and no doubt it has obviously resurfaced again.

However instead of criticising each other, pointing the blame finger and turning a blind eye, we need to work together as a community to come up with ways to help alleviate such grievances arising and make the RPC better.

This is in no way an intentional means of flaming, more an attempt to turn a negative into a positive. Anyone can play the blame game, but it takes just one person to come up with a solution.

To finish with a quote from mean girls:

" I wish we could all get along like we used to in middle school... I wish I could bake a cake filled with rainbows and smiles and everyone would eat and be happy..."

moon

they/them
Seen 11 Hours Ago
Posted 23 Hours Ago
37,443 posts
15.5 Years
To avoid derailing the original purpose of the thread, I will lock this now. It's of course okay to start up new threads if you feel like you can pinpoint a good topic to discuss in a civil manner though!

(:
-locked
paired with Ivysaur