2016 US Presidential Elections Thread [Trump Wins] Page 21

Started by Kanzler January 31st, 2016 9:29 PM
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Kanzler

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Couldn't we tax top earners more to cut fewer benefit programs? I don't think anybody disputes that the top 1% have gained a much bigger proportion of GDP growth in the last 30 or so years than the bottom 99%, so perhaps we should redistribute more to take into account the unbalanced growth.

And what kind of benefits could be/are claimed by undocumented migrants?

Livewire

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The Left/Democratic party has had Bernie-esque populist "insurgent" movements intra-party before 2016, look no further than Obama in '08, at Howard Dean's campaign in 04, Bill Bradley in '00, even all the way back to Jerry Brown in 1992 against Bill Clinton. Bernie's moment isn't new per say, at its core, but he can and arguably has changed the game a bit, because his iteration of the idealogical liberal moment has come further than the previous versions. Slate very eloquently sums up Bernie from a more political science-y perspective that i think captures his candidacy very well.

Also, there is no defending Trump at this point, sorry. I really question why, and how, somebody could turn a blind eye to all his gaffes, his racist rhetoric, and all the other smoke and mirrors bullmuk of his masquerading as a political campaign. If you support him in earnest you should be forced to defend all his other policy positions, statements, gaffes, blunders, etc., not cherry pick the ones you think are a major issue right now. (BTW Illegal immigration isn't one of them, sorry, # of illegal immigrants is the lowest it's been in well over a decade, you can google it - because we know the Donald hasn't.)

A really cool way to afford our social programs is to not waste a few Trillion by invading other countries like Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. for oil & hegemony because Dubya had an old score to settle for poppy + VP Cheney was a CEO of a company that made 40 billion in contracts off of Iraq. Raising taxes on people that are 250,000-400,000+ a year, to a more fair level, would not only help alleviate surging income inequality domestically but it would also generate hundreds of billions in tax revenue that the states can use for infrastructure, social programs, etc., that help alleviate poverty and eventually government dependance. Socio-econ 101 folks, it's not hard.
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Trumps entire race is = Lets kill more people, make it harder to have citizenship, without being born, and bring back black slavery.

Hillary race = I am a woman and we had a black man in office and a Jewish Mayor in Ny. Bring them to there Heels....... Blah blah "I would have handled Iraq/Afghanistan differently ( even if I voted for war ).



Bernie Sanders = I am experienced member of congress and is the only one with a clean record. I will save money and everybody will be happy with me.

..................................................

In short both Rodham and Trump are N-word hating people who could careless about proverty stricken people being denied anything at all. Remember when Clinton was in office they legalized private prison houses that caused innocent teenagers to be violated. And by N-word it could mean any non-European race group at all because that is how stupid they are. Vote for Hillary or Trump is a vote to screw up the nation.



The worst part about Donalds Trump entire race is the hat he is wearing. I like that hate and everything it means. He took those words and make them look like something from "Mandingo".

Kanzler

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The days of deadly ignorance will end, and they will end soon if I’m elected. As president I will give our intelligence community, law enforcement and military the tools they need to prevent terrorist attacks. They don’t have those tools now.

(APPLAUSE)

We need an intelligence gathering system second to none. Second to none. That includes better cooperation between state, local and federal officials, and with our allies, very importantly. I will have an Attorney General, a Director of National Intelligence and a Secretary of Defense who’ll know how to fight a war on radical Islamic terrorism.
From Trump's speech about the Orlando shooting.

Oh my god. Is he calling for ramping up mass surveillance and will the American public buy it?

Also from the same speech:

When I’m elected I will suspend immigration from areas of the world where there’s a proven history of terrorism against the United States, Europe or our allies until we fully understand how to end these threats.
Seems like a shift from "a total and complete ban of Muslims". He made a nod to Muslim-American communities in the same speech. This sounds quite reasonable, to be quite honest. It's not directed at a religious group, but at hotbeds of terrorist activity. It's more nuanced and more presidential.
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Generally, Sanders' allegiance to his own beliefs and candidacy shouldn't be expected to give way to allegiance to the 'Democratic Party,' which politically speaking is considerably less defined or meaningful a thing to believe in, and which he has not always participated in. There might be a further case of aggravation there, as he was going up against somebody whose primary claim was their family's history in the Democratic Party, which is hardly flattering.

He's usually been considerably too mild for somebody running against somebody, especially someone who's comparatively a conservative, and allowed them mostly off the hook.
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Mewtwolover

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Oh my god. Is he calling for ramping up mass surveillance and will the American public buy it?
Yes, he is using 1984 as an instruction manual, "an intelligence gathering system second to none" means Orvellian mass surveillance because otherwise that kind of system wont work. The American public has bought mass surveillance before and it will do it again if the circumstances are right, remember that the Patriot Act was passed almost without protests after the 911.
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Ivysaur

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According to the HuffPost Pollster, the support for Trump has hit an 11-month low in the last few days, with Clinton 5 points clear on average. Keep an eye for the response to his terrifying reaction to the Orlando murders. If the fear leads unafilliated/doubting republicans to embrace him, then this election may be much more trascendental than it seemed at first- if someone wins on a campaign based on hatred, racism and fear, the US will be plummeting into a very, very dark and scary place. If the public repudiates him, it should show as well- and, in that case, I really wouldn't want to be a Republican downballot candidate.
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What I'm not seeing being discussed much about Trump is the fact that he wants to effectively throw out the Constitution and impose an Orwellian police state. Deportation squads, "opening up the libel laws" to destroy freedom of the press, torturing people "even if it doesn't work", purposeful killing of civilians in the Middle East, etc.

People talk all the time about the racist crap he spews and they should, but there should be more focus than there is about the blatantly tyrannical policies that he is proposing to enact on Americans in general. It needs to be emphasized that Trump may scream and cry about the PC police all day and night, but when it comes down to it he IS the PC police. He's sued Bill Maher and the Onion for making jokes about him. The fact that even after all this muk he claims to be all for freedom of speech is despicable. He isn't for freedom of anything.

Kanzler

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What I'm not seeing being discussed much about Trump is the fact that he wants to effectively throw out the Constitution and impose an Orwellian police state. Deportation squads, "opening up the libel laws" to destroy freedom of the press, torturing people "even if it doesn't work", purposeful killing of civilians in the Middle East, etc.

People talk all the time about the racist crap he spews and they should, but there should be more focus than there is about the blatantly tyrannical policies that he is proposing to enact on Americans in general. It needs to be emphasized that Trump may scream and cry about the PC police all day and night, but when it comes down to it he IS the PC police. He's sued Bill Maher and the Onion for making jokes about him. The fact that even after all this **** he claims to be all for freedom of speech is despicable. He isn't for freedom of anything.
I agree. His remarks on the media, on civilian casualties in war, on mass surveillance are much more sinister than just saying something racist.

Esper

California
Seen June 30th, 2018
Posted June 30th, 2018
So how do people feel about the information that the classified emails on Clinton's server where drone kill orders? Or the thing with Rajiv Fernando getting a seat on the security advisory board apparently because of donations to the Clinton Foundation? Relevant? And what about the ongoing scandals of Mr. Trump including the Trump University fiasco and allegations of his short changing bunches of people who worked for him? Any of this going to change anyone's minds?

Kanzler

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So how do people feel about the information that the classified emails on Clinton's server where drone kill orders? Or the thing with Rajiv Fernando getting a seat on the security advisory board apparently because of donations to the Clinton Foundation? Relevant? And what about the ongoing scandals of Mr. Trump including the Trump University fiasco and allegations of his short changing bunches of people who worked for him? Any of this going to change anyone's minds?
No one cares.

Seriously though, I don't know if most people are going to give it much thought - at least the classified emails. I don't know too much about drone kill orders myself but my hunch is that the average American doesn't really care about what that is. As for Trump University I don't think anybody's made a ruckus about that even though it's been on the radar for several months now. Maybe a killer TV ad might shine a light on it, but so far there's no real attention.

In other news, Senator Murphy successfully opened the door to votes on gun control measures after a 15 hour filibuster. Do you think gun control/rights might become one of the salient issues of this election?

Esper

California
Seen June 30th, 2018
Posted June 30th, 2018
In other news, Senator Murphy successfully opened the door to votes on gun control measures after a 15 hour filibuster. Do you think gun control/rights might become one of the salient issues of this election?
Well, we might get some more talk about it, but I doubt it will go anywhere. If 20 dead children can't make people care, if a similar attack last year (San Bernardino) won't get people to change, then 49 mostly gay, mostly Latino people certainly won't. Maybe, maybe they'll agree to something weak about stopping anyone on a no-fly list, but that's the most I expect to see from this pack and I hardly expect it. There's too much gun group lobbying and too much pro-gun sentiment.

It might be useful for each side of the gun debate as a litmus test though. I don't know if that would be good for those who want change because any senator worried about reelection might not want to look "soft" on guns and what's needed is to have some from the pro-gun camp to move to the gun control camp.
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Nobody cares about Gun control. That was because of Job related issues.

Anti-privacy as with Snowden is a real issue.

Bradass1987 showing the genocidal joke of the Afganistan/Iraq war with the slaughter of innocent camera men and a small body boy. The ambulance was delayed.

All I can Sanders is the lesser evil and that is all that matters. If you could find one wrong thing with Sanders as with Ashley Williams to Hillary or Trump and his court case that discriminates non-Europeans, Trump and his hoar wives which he claims to have come with false visa in order to get into his wallet. Trump and his anti-immigration rant.

There is not one thing that is wrong with Sanders................asides for his visit to Dark Vader/His Shadow AKA the Pope. I hope he did not perform the kiss on him. Same with Osamabama having a talk with him as well. Sanders is the only hope for an anti-war, anti-privacy, and justified nation

Esper

California
Seen June 30th, 2018
Posted June 30th, 2018
Okay, so no one seems to care about the email server thing, but what about the one particular email (stolen by those Russian hackers, I believe) that shows the DNC strategy to "Use specific hits to muddy the waters around ethics, transparency and campaign finance finance attacks on HRC"?

https://twitter.com/MatthewKick/status/743418063937220608/photo/1

And the study at Stanford that shows election fraud?

States that are at risk for election fraud in 2016 systematically and overwhelmingly favor Secretary Clinton. We provide converging evidence for this claim.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6mLpCEIGEYGYl9RZWFRcmpsZk0/view?pref=2&pli=1

Ivysaur

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Okay, so no one seems to care about the email server thing, but what about the one particular email (stolen by those Russian hackers, I believe) that shows the DNC strategy to "Use specific hits to muddy the waters around ethics, transparency and campaign finance finance attacks on HRC"?

https://twitter.com/MatthewKick/status/743418063937220608/photo/1

And the study at Stanford that shows election fraud?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6mLpCEIGEYGYl9RZWFRcmpsZk0/view?pref=2&pli=1
About the first line, they are talking about a strategy we could call "pots and kettles" in case any Republican candidate (most of whom were funded by the same sort of billionaires, or possibly even worse) tried to hit Clinton for taking Wall Street money. Obviously, by then Clinton was more or less unopposed- there was no serious declared rival, Biden seemed like her only possible serious challenger and Sanders was floundering on about 10% in the polls. Note the full email is about strategies vs "GOP candidates", not against other Democratic challengers.

About the second study, there are some points to note: it is perfectly possible that the states with no paper trail in the study (18, if I read correctly) happened to be the ones that, demographically (I'm thinking the South) were expected to go massively in her favour, paper trail or not. I think there is also an important factor to look at: polls have called almost every race correctly, and by margins that aren't really that bad considering the uncertainty primaries usally carry. Except in Michigan (where the one surprisingly beating the polls was Sanders), essentially every other state got the winner suggested by polls and demographic makeup, which means that if there was fraud, they must have been in cahoots with every pollster out there. And they didn't do it too aggressively either, because her results, despite the "fraud", match surprisingly well her expected targets set before the primaries even started, just looking at the demographic makeup of each state.

Finally, in the final delegate count, Clinton won Sanders by 9.5 points (I'm counting pledged delegates only, not popular vote or superdelegates), which is pretty damn consistent with the margin she's held over him in the polls during the race.

Esper

California
Seen June 30th, 2018
Posted June 30th, 2018
I think we'll have to agree to disagree on the level of underhandedness regarding how the primary election was handled.

Anyway, news from the last few days is that Wall Street would stop giving any money to Clinton if she picked Elizabeth Warren as her running mate. What a statement! If Clinton actually goes ahead and picks Warren after this threat then I think I could feel okay voting for her after all. Even as a somewhat token gesture it would certainly go a long way to showing that she isn't completely controlled by big money. For the sake of future politics in this country I really hope that she does pick Warren.

Kanzler

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Is America ready for an all-woman ticket? Serious question. Seems like a more conservative and potentially more palatable approach is to have a mixed-gender ticket because what if both women PMS and there's no man to counterbalance that?

/sarcasm

Platinum Lucario

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As for me, it would be really nice to see a first female president in the US. I know I live in Australia, but I have been looking at the political system in the US, as well as it's political parties (since I'm really into politics and all).

At the same time, I would've also wished to see Bernie Sanders be the last remaining candidate of the Democratic Party. But there is one thing I am aware of in the US political system: The lack of ballot access for minor/3rd party candidates (which I haven't seen any success, or I might have missed something).

Anyways, I just hope things head in a positive direction. There's still about 4 months before the US elections. And remember, it's not just president that people are voting for, it's also their candidates for the House of Representatives (and the Senate, depending on the area). If I was a US citizen and was voting in this election, I would've been voting for a Green Party candidate if there is one available, but if not... then I'd have to pick the one closest to Green Party's policies, which would be a Democratic Party candidate. But that's just basically my opinion though, and I know everyone's different, and that's okay, I respect that.
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Kiel

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Well Sanders just said he's voting for Clinton. I seriously think the Brexit vote is what forced the issue.

And considering the 2000 elections I wouldn't be surprised.

Ivysaur

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According to PPP, Giant Meteor 2016 would do better than Gary Johnson in a three-way race against Clinton and Trump, hitting an impressive 13%, almost enough to make it to the debates. 7% are not sure.

Anyway, Nate Silver, who called every state correctly in 2012, has launched his 2016 projection site based on poll results, economic data and historic election outcomes: http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/ Clinton is currently winning 80%/20% in odds of winning the election. Keep track of how their chances evolve as the campaign develops.

Esper

California
Seen June 30th, 2018
Posted June 30th, 2018
Yeah, but when Trump took a temporary lead in the polls in May Nate Silver was all "polls fluctuate all the time, don't worry about them" [here] so don't be complacent because he makes it look like Clinton has it in the bag. She doesn't and Trump could easily win just like how something as unthinkable as Brexit happened and surprised everyone. It's much easier to get motivated to vote when you're basically voting with your hate for something, and Trump has a lot more hateful people supporting him.

Ivysaur

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Yeah, but when Trump took a temporary lead in the polls in May Nate Silver was all "polls fluctuate all the time, don't worry about them" [here] so don't be complacent because he makes it look like Clinton has it in the bag. She doesn't and Trump could easily win just like how something as unthinkable as Brexit happened and surprised everyone. It's much easier to get motivated to vote when you're basically voting with your hate for something, and Trump has a lot more hateful people supporting him.
Keep track of how their chances evolve as the campaign develops.
That's precisely what I said. This tracker aggregates polls and even softens them even more with "state fundamentals" (demographics, how it voted in the past, economical data) so it should be even less affected by random polling fluctuation. And yes, she may have it in the bag on July 1st but the elections aren't today, hence why "keep track of it".

And polls suggested Brexit was perfectly possible and polls got Trump's primary win spot-on from the start, even when all the pundits -including Silver- were saying "that's unpossible!", so polls are worth keeping an eye on. Not "THIS latest poll", but all of them as a group.