Mawa

The typo Queen

Age 30
Female
Canada
Seen August 13th, 2020
Posted March 1st, 2020
Hum... I feel this can be a debate.

Listen, I'll won't take part in any of this. I don'T want to start a fight with Apple Lovers :p


Buuut..


I know privacy is really important. But National security is important too. I wonder if the government is gonna take time to search in someone's phone with no reason.

We already don't have any privacy on our phones. (Take a look of what the apps ask and all the stuff).

If the FBI has, for some reason, a warrant to check my phone, and I have nothing to hide, I'l show them, no?

But like I said, it is a debate. I am only exposing another side of view :)
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donavannj

Age 32
Male
'cause it get cold like Minnesota
Seen 5 Hours Ago
Posted 1 Week Ago
22,513 posts
18.2 Years
More backdoors is the last thing we need in our devices and software. I applaud Apple for this decision. It won't make me switch to them, but it is, in my opinion the correct thing to do both from a PR standpoint and a doing right by the customer standpoint, since such a tool could be used very maliciously and would allow police bypass the processes that police agencies need to go through to get information from accounts, even for the simple petty pickpocket.
whoops

mew_nani

Pokécommunity's Licensed Tree Exorcist

Female
Far Lands
Seen May 28th, 2019
Posted August 25th, 2018
1,839 posts
13.4 Years
Something I don't understand; couldn't they brute force their way into the device? Why do they need Apple to unlock it for them? iDevices are difficult to deal with and hack into but not impossible, and if it's just locked with a passcode can't they just guess their way in?

I get they need to get into the phone because it may contain contacts and such but lets face it; those contacts are probably public to some extent already. Everybody knows this guy was talking with known terror suspects and it's easy to find out where they are online.

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1946 - 2017

mew_nani

Pokécommunity's Licensed Tree Exorcist

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Seen May 28th, 2019
Posted August 25th, 2018
1,839 posts
13.4 Years
The problem is that there is an infinite amount of possible passwords for a device. If they attempt to bruteforce their way in, they run the risk of locking out the device for long periods of time, something they don't have much of.

In addition (I wasn't aware of this,) in newer versions of iOS, if the incorrect password is entered too many times, the device will wipe and reset itself to preserve the user's privacy. Because the data contained on the phone is literally a matter of national security, they can't run the risk of it being deleted.
Ah I see. That's an incredibly haphazard feature but I can see why they would need help. Still if in normal cases a phone can be tapped into to look for clues... eh I guess the problem isn't so much that the FBI is asking for Apple for help in this instance because it is legal to look at a suspect's phone as long as they have a warrant, but that they want Apple to make them a tool so they can just hack into any iDevice they wish. It's very concerning that they would use a terrorist's phone as leverage for a power grab of this magnitude.

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1946 - 2017

Legendary Silke

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Seen December 23rd, 2021
Posted April 22nd, 2020
5,925 posts
12.5 Years
This is probably the kind of thing that we probably aren't really prepared for. When I look at this, it's basically one of these dilemmas that, well, there probably isn't a good solution. You don't want to set a dangerous precedent in any way...

Though I guess I think Apple is doing the right thing by refusing to backdoor.

mew_nani

Pokécommunity's Licensed Tree Exorcist

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Seen May 28th, 2019
Posted August 25th, 2018
1,839 posts
13.4 Years
I figured Trump would be for forcing Apple to open it up. Guy's a blowhard and doesn't really think things through when he says them. A man with that level of arrogance and complete lack of understanding towards the implications this has is a dangerous man indeed as not only does he fail to understand how dangerous the FBI with a shiny new backdoor can be, but refuses to listen to reason as he seemingly can't understand the opposing point of view.

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1946 - 2017

Pinkie-Dawn

Vampire Waifu

Age 30
Male
California
Seen February 16th, 2021
Posted May 16th, 2019
9,528 posts
10.5 Years
Did Apple also try to realize that their consumers may also be at risk from another terrorist attack, and that San Bernadino attacker's device may contain important evidence to track down these terrorists? Privacy is important, yes, but would you go so far to protect the identity of someone who may have a connection to the same people the government is trying to stop?

mew_nani

Pokécommunity's Licensed Tree Exorcist

Female
Far Lands
Seen May 28th, 2019
Posted August 25th, 2018
1,839 posts
13.4 Years
Did Apple also try to realize that their consumers may also be at risk from another terrorist attack, and that San Bernadino attacker's device may contain important evidence to track down these terrorists? Privacy is important, yes, but would you go so far to protect the identity of someone who may have a connection to the same people the government is trying to stop?
It's important to stop terrorists, I agree, but forcing Apple to make a backdoor causes two problems. The first is that it establishes that a government agency, and by extension the government itself, can now just order a company do to something, whether it be creating a piece of software, or making a specific product, and can punish said company if they refuse to comply. Very communistic in nature. The second problem is that it puts a backdoor in that the FBI (and by extension the government, again) can abuse later to look into your private data on your iDevice whenever it wishes. I don't know if the FBI got a warrant for this, I'm assuming they did, but power breeds abuse and corruption, and it isn't like anyone is going to stop them if they just decide to start spying on you as you text to other people or play Angry Birds. After all we already know they were spying on phone calls illegally and nothing was done about it.

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1946 - 2017

Pinkie-Dawn

Vampire Waifu

Age 30
Male
California
Seen February 16th, 2021
Posted May 16th, 2019
9,528 posts
10.5 Years
Bolded statement is not Apple's job. Apple is a hardware/software manufacturer, and that's that. If Apple doesn't have the keys, then there's nothing the government can really do, and they should suck it up. It's a cruel reality, but Apple isn't willing to risk the millions of iOS users by making any sort of a backdoor, and I agree with that.
It kinda is, because no consumers = no money, and companies will only care if they're making less money. They don't want their current/future customers killed from a terrorist attack. This too is part of the cruel reality we live in, unless we wish to make it cruel than it is.

mew_nani

Pokécommunity's Licensed Tree Exorcist

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Seen May 28th, 2019
Posted August 25th, 2018
1,839 posts
13.4 Years
It kinda is, because no consumers = no money, and companies will only care if they're making less money. They don't want their current/future customers killed from a terrorist attack. This too is part of the cruel reality we live in, unless we wish to make it cruel than it is.
You're talking about a manufacturing company, not a police force. By that logic Apple should also be responsible for all the people who got mugged and murdered over an iPhone because after all, no consumers = no money. Their job is to make things that make people feel happy. We already have several forces dedicated to keeping us safe, we don't need Apple joining in and giving away all our info in the process.

Donald Trump is the kind of person that's "Open mouth, insert foot here" and doesn't understand just how technology (Or anything in general) works but talks anyway. Do remember that he said that he'd turn off the internet recently as if there's some kind of on/off switch.
I had no idea he said such a thing. Why do people support this guy?! I'm a conservative/libertarian and even I think the guy is bad news. He's as much a big government guy as any of them and he has no clue what he's doing. That man's liable to get us all killed over a silly mistake or slight; we don't need him in office.

I support:

R.I.P Isaac J. Southerland Jr.
1946 - 2017

Mawa

The typo Queen

Age 30
Female
Canada
Seen August 13th, 2020
Posted March 1st, 2020
The thing is, if the FBI had asked for just the one phone to be unlocked by Apple, rather than ask them for a backdoor into the phone, I think it could have ended differently.
Oh I thought it was for one person only! So yeah it's different...
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donavannj

Age 32
Male
'cause it get cold like Minnesota
Seen 5 Hours Ago
Posted 1 Week Ago
22,513 posts
18.2 Years
It kinda is, because no consumers = no money, and companies will only care if they're making less money. They don't want their current/future customers killed from a terrorist attack. This too is part of the cruel reality we live in, unless we wish to make it cruel than it is.
By this logic, Ford, Toyota, GM, Honda, et al, should just give the fbi and other police agencies a copy of your car keys because sometimes people use their cars to go commit a murder. Or that the builder who built your house or the real estate agent who sold you your house should give the FBI a key so they can pop in and investigate your stuff without a warrant. The IPhone is your private property once you purchase it.
whoops

Tsutarja

Age 28
he / him
Florida
Seen 4 Hours Ago
Posted 6 Days Ago
27,325 posts
13.2 Years
This decision by Apple gave me more respect for them as a company. I am glad that they choose to value security for all of their customers considering that the US government could use such power against us as citizens if the order were to go through.

Mewtwolover

Mewtwo worshiper

Age 38
Finland
Seen 1 Hour Ago
Posted 3 Days Ago
1,141 posts
15.8 Years
This seems like Microsoft would support Apple and Google's endeavor's here. Hoping to hear from Satya Nadella himself at some point, though.

edit: it seems that they do support Apple.
That's hard to believe when we know that Microsoft is actively colluding with the NSA and Windows 10 is spyware OS directly from NSA's wet dreams.

Did Apple also try to realize that their consumers may also be at risk from another terrorist attack, and that San Bernadino attacker's device may contain important evidence to track down these terrorists? Privacy is important, yes, but would you go so far to protect the identity of someone who may have a connection to the same people the government is trying to stop?
“Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.” -Benjamin Franklin
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Dter ic

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Age 26
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Seen December 15th, 2018
Posted July 9th, 2018
741 posts
10.7 Years
Ultimately this issue boils down to the indiscriminate nature of encryption. It doesn't allow 'special access' to specific people like the government agencies because the entire point of encryption is to allow private communication between the people who are allowed to do so. Any sort of backdoor would defeat the purpose of encryption to begin with. (for users privacy's sake) Who is to say only the people who wanted the backdoor can use it? Even criminals themselves could use backdoors to steal private information if they wanted.

The danger of requiring a backdoor could affect every tech company if Apple gave into the order - the FBI might next want to demand every company install a backdoor and would therefore lead to a major issue of privacy for every consumer in the world.

Tsutarja

Age 28
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13.2 Years
Well, as long as McAfee's doing it within legal constraint, then maybe? I don't think Apple (or the federal government) would respond well to him though if he were to actually pull it off.

Sopheria

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深き海の彼方
Seen July 19th, 2022
Posted December 17th, 2017
4,904 posts
9.5 Years
It's already been said, but yea, what I find most unsettling about this is that they're asking Apple to give them a backdoor to access any and all iOS devices. They already have the power to access the data on a device, as long as they have a warrant (provided it's even accessible to the company and isn't hashed or something). But getting a backdoor to encrypted data is overkill, and it strikes me as an opportunistic attempt to take advantage of the situation in order to increase their surveillance capabilities.

Did Apple also try to realize that their consumers may also be at risk from another terrorist attack, and that San Bernadino attacker's device may contain important evidence to track down these terrorists? Privacy is important, yes, but would you go so far to protect the identity of someone who may have a connection to the same people the government is trying to stop?
But if you look at it from Apple's perspective, imagine if they did give the FBI what they're asking for. That would put the iPhone in the position of being the only phone on the market that the FBI can spy on. Android sales would skyrocket, iPhone sales would plummet--at least to some degree. All in all, privacy is something customers care about, and if customers don't get it from Apple they'll simply go elsewhere.
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Legendary Silke

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Seen December 23rd, 2021
Posted April 22nd, 2020
5,925 posts
12.5 Years
The only thing I can think of is "well, if only FBI had asked for something else... namely, access to just this phone"

Then again, I don't think there's a "perfect" answer to this kind of problem, to be honest.

Mewtwolover

Mewtwo worshiper

Age 38
Finland
Seen 1 Hour Ago
Posted 3 Days Ago
1,141 posts
15.8 Years
@deleted post...meant to say accidental double post, but my phone was acting weird...anyway!

Well, this case took a surprising turn.

It seems that John McAfee is offering to decrypt the iPhone. Do you guys think McAfee and his team would be able to pull it off?
It's also possible that FBI can open the phone by using dead terrorist's fingerprints so there might be no need to hack it after all.
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King Elizabello

Male
Providence Kingdom
Seen July 28th, 2016
Posted March 14th, 2016
303 posts
7.5 Years
Sooner or later Apple will surrender and FBI will check about it it's just a matter of time in my opinion. Ofc Apple's CEO is thinking like every company but when it goes to FBI and stuff like that then it's like throwing a pokeball to a pokemon sooner or later it will be caught that's what i think.


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Seen May 29th, 2017
Posted March 12th, 2017
357 posts
7.5 Years
This is the reason why the Government of America will kill itself. It sees itself not as a democracy, but as an oligarchy and it must be abolished it it wants to keep up this kind of tyranny. From it's mukty justice system (where anyone who's rich and can afford a lawyer gets their court sentence decreased by 90%), large amounts of taxes on all classes, ignoring the constitution in favor of a falsified sense of "safety" as well as other ridiculousness (such as Oregon; they shot a protester to death after "reaching for a weapon" even though his weapon was at his holster and he was reaching for his chest) and the fact that Hillary Clinton gets a psyducking free slate and can still run as psyducking president but Edward Snowden does the same muk and is branded a traitor.

The sad fact is they do this muk all the time. While we're too busing looking through the candidates to find the shiniest pile of muk, they're doing muk like slipping in CISA in our budget bills. This government is a psyducking joke. I sincerely hope Apple doesn't give into any other attempt of mass surveillance on their platform.

Megan

She/Her, It/Its
Online now
Posted 2 Hours Ago
17,750 posts
10.3 Years
If there's an order from the FBI to get access to every phone produced by Apple it kind of makes me wonder how good the US security system really is. After all, if you rely on backdoors in devices you already give outsiders an option for an attack.

Needless to say, Apple should not allow such shenanigans. Business is a matter of trust. If you give your customer a device that allows him to store sensible data, then you pretty much have to make sure to give as much safety as possible, or else he won't be your customer for long.
By this logic, Ford, Toyota, GM, Honda, et al, should just give the fbi and other police agencies a copy of your car keys because sometimes people use their cars to go commit a murder. Or that the builder who built your house or the real estate agent who sold you your house should give the FBI a key so they can pop in and investigate your stuff without a warrant. The IPhone is your private property once you purchase it.
You can't live inside an iPhone, though. Not saying that you're wrong, but I feel those examples aren't really comparable.
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donavannj

Age 32
Male
'cause it get cold like Minnesota
Seen 5 Hours Ago
Posted 1 Week Ago
22,513 posts
18.2 Years
You can't live inside an iPhone, though. Not saying that you're wrong, but I feel those examples aren't really comparable.
I think they're comparable because they're private property that contains things that belong to you that can be secured with a key, be it a physical or digital key.
whoops

King Elizabello

Male
Providence Kingdom
Seen July 28th, 2016
Posted March 14th, 2016
303 posts
7.5 Years
What will happen is simple Apple lovers will cry because FBI will probably shut down Apple once and for all and then Steve will revive and slap Cook for not hearing FBI i know it's your company but when it comes to FBI,CIA e.t.c you just have to let it pass that's what i think. It's like when you pass through security check in an airport for example (I think except if you are a priest or something like that you have the right to not be checked) but if you are normal then you can't deny the security check. So sorry Apple lovers but check this site if the most unsatisfying event happens http://www.gsmarena.com/.


By my friend Master Snowy an honorary masterpiece :). Thanks a ton!