The existence of God Page 3

Started by KorpiklaaniVodka February 29th, 2016 10:24 AM
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ShinyUmbreon189

VLONE coming soon

Age 31
Male
Chicago
Seen December 17th, 2022
Posted July 7th, 2019
1,461 posts
11.2 Years
If God is real and I somehow make it to him I'm going to beat his ass for putting me through this crap. I don't believe in religion because I feel religion was created by man to keep us divided. So imo, God is more of an energy rather than a person. There's negative energy in the world and there's positive energy. I'm convinced the positive is battling the negative and the evil we have inside us is the negative while the good we have in us is the positive so therefore we are battling ourselves on a daily basis. Now, I also believe Jesus was a real person and that we walked on this earth but I'm not convinced he is the son of "God". There's too many religions one can follow and if God exists all those religions have the same God if there can only be "one God". That's enough evidence to have my mind set on "religion is bullmuk".

KorpiklaaniVodka

KID BUU PAWAA

Age 24
Male
Eastern Europe
Seen September 26th, 2016
Posted September 26th, 2016
3,318 posts
9.9 Years
If God is real and I somehow make it to him I'm going to beat his ass for putting me through this crap. I don't believe in religion because I feel religion was created by man to keep us divided. So imo, God is more of an energy rather than a person. There's negative energy in the world and there's positive energy. I'm convinced the positive is battling the negative and the evil we have inside us is the negative while the good we have in us is the positive so therefore we are battling ourselves on a daily basis. Now, I also believe Jesus was a real person and that we walked on this earth but I'm not convinced he is the son of "God". There's too many religions one can follow and if God exists all those religions have the same God if there can only be "one God". That's enough evidence to have my mind set on "religion is bull****".
I share a lot of your thoughts. I too think Jesus was a real person, but was transformed into a God by propagandists. Polytheistic mythologies are less cancerous than christianity in my opinion.
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curiousnathan

Male
Australia
Seen October 18th, 2020
Posted October 5th, 2020
7,753 posts
13.6 Years
I don't think the complexity of this world was created by mere chance. I just can't think of how the universe with all of its intricacies have come to be due to pure fluke. I do think there's a higher being or creator of some sort. I do not however, believe that I should get on my knees and worship it, or not love the people who I love, because of it.

Alex

what will it be next?

Seen December 30th, 2022
Posted December 26th, 2022
6,407 posts
16.4 Years
I'm agnostic. I believe the root of religion has good intentions: they are made to give purpose in life, and to encourage kindness amongst each other. Unfortunately, narrow-minded people give religion a bad name. Most atheists and agnostics I know are some of the most open-minded people who do not care about your beliefs.

So no, I don't believe there is a God. I'm not completely closed to the idea just because there's no way to definitively prove either end of the argument. But, I'm totally OK with whatever you choose to believe - especially if it helps you lead what you feel is a more fulfilling life.

I also pity anyone who gets heated about this topic. It is simply out of our bounds of knowledge. Don't waste your energy over it.

Wicked3DS

Until the very end.

Age 31
Male
New Jersey
Seen February 24th, 2022
Posted October 5th, 2021
4,592 posts
9.7 Years
I share a lot of your thoughts. I too think Jesus was a real person, but was transformed into a God by propagandists. Polytheistic mythologies are less cancerous than christianity in my opinion.
Personally I believe that Christianity itself isn't cancerous, but narrow-minded religious zealots are.

KorpiklaaniVodka

KID BUU PAWAA

Age 24
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Seen September 26th, 2016
Posted September 26th, 2016
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Personally I believe that Christianity itself isn't cancerous, but narrow-minded religious zealots are.
Narrow-minded religious people are ridiculous and should just be ignored. Especially when they are after your money.
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Toweleeeie

Don't Forget to Bring a Towel

Rehab
Seen April 4th, 2016
Posted March 21st, 2016
5 posts
7.2 Years
I grew up in what I guess you could describe as an "evangelical" family. I remember being forced into attending church my whole childhood in agony. As I got older I found myself dumbfounded by some of the things that were preached and believed. Once I graduated high school and went off to college I never set foot in a church again. This experience instilled a fascination in religious beliefs, philosophy, and a passion for science. I have since spent much time researching various religious topics, especially biblical as per my upbringing.

I think that when pondering this question you have to define for yourself what specifically do you mean when you say, "god." If by "god" you simply mean some greater 'force' or 'being' existing outside of our observable universe then that is not necessarily a falsifiable assertion. However, when people begin to more narrowly define the parameters for "their" god's existence the question does indeed become one that may have a probability assigned to it.

The conclusion I have come to is that no, god(s) do not exist, at least none that have ever been postulated throughout human history. Honing in on Judaism/Christianity, I see too much in their respective holy books that would be in conflict with reason and reality; too much in conflict with a supposed omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent being, and too many paradoxes arising out of that situation. I also see too much ambiguity in the places that are typically used as proofs for belief.

Anything that lies in that scope spoken of earlier of the non-specific non-personal outside force cannot have any probability assigned to its existence, but then, they are a non-personal force our acknowledging their existence wouldn't really matter.

Now, when working into the consequences of belief in god(s), namely religion, my opinions vary. I don't see any problem with spirituality or religion in general, where I do however see a problem is when religious dogma is maintained when evidence points towards its nonsensical-ness, pushed on children, and used to denigrate other members of our species. As long as you can maintain a spirituality while simultaneously maintaining reason and an open mind you're probably in a good boat with me.

I think these critters migrated from down south.

KorpiklaaniVodka

KID BUU PAWAA

Age 24
Male
Eastern Europe
Seen September 26th, 2016
Posted September 26th, 2016
3,318 posts
9.9 Years
I grew up in what I guess you could describe as an "evangelical" family. I remember being forced into attending church my whole childhood in agony. As I got older I found myself dumbfounded by some of the things that were preached and believed. Once I graduated high school and went off to college I never set foot in a church again. This experience instilled a fascination in religious beliefs, philosophy, and a passion for science. I have since spent much time researching various religious topics, especially biblical as per my upbringing.

I think that when pondering this question you have to define for yourself what specifically do you mean when you say, "god." If by "god" you simply mean some greater 'force' or 'being' existing outside of our observable universe then that is not necessarily a falsifiable assertion. However, when people begin to more narrowly define the parameters for "their" god's existence the question does indeed become one that may have a probability assigned to it.

The conclusion I have come to is that no, god(s) do not exist, at least none that have ever been postulated throughout human history. Honing in on Judaism/Christianity, I see too much in their respective holy books that would be in conflict with reason and reality; too much in conflict with a supposed omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent being, and too many paradoxes arising out of that situation. I also see too much ambiguity in the places that are typically used as proofs for belief.

Anything that lies in that scope spoken of earlier of the non-specific non-personal outside force cannot have any probability assigned to its existence, but then, they are a non-personal force our acknowledging their existence wouldn't really matter.

Now, when working into the consequences of belief in god(s), namely religion, my opinions vary. I don't see any problem with spirituality or religion in general, where I do however see a problem is when religious dogma is maintained when evidence points towards its nonsensical-ness, pushed on children, and used to denigrate other members of our species. As long as you can maintain a spirituality while simultaneously maintaining reason and an open mind you're probably in a good boat with me.
What do you think of the concept of Hell?
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Toweleeeie

Don't Forget to Bring a Towel

Rehab
Seen April 4th, 2016
Posted March 21st, 2016
5 posts
7.2 Years
What do you think of the concept of Hell?
Haha, I think it was one of the most ingenious marketing schemes ever invented. I find it interesting that if you really scrutinize the Bible, "Hell" as it is imagined in the modern day as an other dimensional pit of eternal burning torture is not even discussed.

I think that teaching children that they'll go to hell or that their friends from school will if they commit a grave sin or even simply do not worship the same god is psychological abuse. I also find discussions of morality interesting when coming from those who use the threat of hell, because I think it's debatable how 'moral' you really are if the only thing keeping you from murdering someone is fear of punishment.

Finally, if discussing the concept itself, I also would have a few questions. Like, if you believe 'the devil' or 'demons' torture you in hell, why would they torture you for doing bad things which they'd like you to do? If it's god doing the torturing, wow... that god is a ****. And why is it fiery? It's some other dimensional spirit realm, why do spirits experience burning? Is hell an oxygen rich environment?

I think these critters migrated from down south.
Male
England
Seen June 2nd, 2022
Posted September 11th, 2018
501 posts
7 Years
At a young age I was a Christian. My school believed it and told me it, and my parents taught me it just because I wasn't old enough and they wanted me to be happy believing in Heaven or whatever. I became an athiest for quite a while. Later, I started calling myself agnostic instead, and now I'm kind of edging more towards the term atheism, because I am becoming increasingly less inclined to subscribe to the whole "be open to all possibilities thing".

My current stance: If there is no empirical evidence to suggest something exists, it does not exist. You can try to find empirical evidence to prove it exists, but until you do, for all intents and purposes, it does not exist.

I treat people telling me that a God exists the same as I would treat them telling me that there is a unicorn living in the core of the Sun, our major political figures are all alien reptiles and the Earth is flat.

The only difference, and I mean the only difference, is that one has been consistently accepted for such a long time that people just believe it because everybody else told them to.

If you are religious, consider this. Why do you follow your religion, and not another? If you are not a Christian, what makes your religion more real than Christianity? If you are a Christian, what makes your religion more real than Islam, Hinduism, Judaism and so on? The point I am making is that most of these religions will have just as much evidence as you do. They have a holy book, they have teachings, they have morals. They have people who have claimed to have inner experiences, and they have large cultures dedicated to their individual faiths.

So why is yours better? As the very intelligent Richard Dawkins said "We are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further."

So really, we atheists are just the same as the theists (religious people) out there. The only difference is that we deny one more God (or quite a few more, if you follow a polytheistic religion). So why do you believe in your God(s), then? I think I can identify a few reasons:

Your background - family, friends, your general society. If you grow up in the US you might be a Christian, if you grow up in India, you might follow Hinduism. But you cannot argue that you would still follow the same religion you do now no matter what circumstances you were born in - you could be an atheist, or follow a completely different religion, had you been born elsewhere, in a different family. This kind of hurts the validity of your religion. If this is your reason for following your religion, then you accept that you do not follow your religion because it is true, you follow your religion out of coincidence. But I'm sure you have more reasons, I'll try to go through as many as I can.

It has been followed for a long time. Sure, but so have all of the others. Your religion may have been accepted for so long that it must be true, but so have so many others. This argument doesn't work, but many people simply accept that their religion has been going on for too long to be false.

You have had some kind of experience of God. So here's another one. There's not really a fully factual way for me to disprove any claims of a spiritual experience. But then, the burden of proof dictates that I'm right and you're wrong anyway, since you can't prove you have. Look, I'm not calling you a liar. You may well genuinely think God has spoken to you in some way. But I highly doubt it. The human brain is not perfect, it can be fooled. You can see things that aren't real. Sometimes you think you hear your name, and you're only in a house with one other person. They have no idea what you're talking about, they didn't call you. Weird. Yeah, weird. You just can't trust your senses all the time. If you do, you're placing far too much value on your own abilities to perceive things, because you are simply not as accurate as you think you are. This isn't just me grasping at straws making up the idea that you hallucinate whenever you claim to have a spiritual experience. The fact of the matter is that this kind of thing does happen - people's minds are wrong sometimes, they muck things up and make you imagine things.

Miracles. Come on now, miracles cannot be proven to be real. Here's the thing. The universe has existed for 14 billion years, our galaxy about 13.6, the solar system and Earth about 4.5. Us evolved humans have been plodding about for about 200 000 years. In that time, it would be incredibly unlikely for incredibly unlikely things not to happen. In fact, absolutely no 'miracles' happening in that time would be a miracle in itself. Wacky stuff happens sometimes, that doesn't mean somebody made it happen.

You don't believe the universe/the stuff in it/life could be created by chance. See above. Crazy stuff. They reckon time was created during the big bang, you know. Which is weird. We don't know how exactly the big bang happened - we have some ideas, but we haven't proven any of them yet. We just know that everything, to our knowledge, was created when it happened. And there was nothing before that, we think. At least, if there was something before that, it ended, and that led to the creation of something new. So whether we assume that there is only, has only ever been and will only ever be one universe, or we assume that a universe is created as the last one dies, we know that there is a hell of a lot of time for crazy things to happen. When you're literally dealing with an infinite amount of time, saying that anything is impossible is preposterous.

You just want to believe it. Whether you're scared of nothingness or just like the thought of a creator who's looking after you and is saving you a spot in Heaven, this is one of my least favourite arguments, if not my least favourite of all, in favour of religion. It just doesn't make sense to me. I mean, I can understand it, but I'm the kind of person who doesn't want to believe something just because it sounds nice. I want to believe the truth and what is most likely to be the truth. I don't want to live in a bubble of happy thoughts that probably aren't real. And you should think that way too. At least, I think so. This argument seems around the same vein as believing unicorns exist. Because unicorns are cool, right?

Morals. Just adding this one on reading the above post. Come on now, you believe in God because you have morals? Well, did you know that morals can be explained in evolution? Think of it this way. Humans need to survive. That is the goal. That is what evolution does - it lets us adapt to survive. Evolution is not conscious, that's just how it works, scientifically. I'm not explaining it here. Anyway, what's a good way to survive and keep the species going strong? Well, killing each other ruthlessly, stealing their stuff and destroying their property is not a good start. No, that's sooner to get you killed back, or just drive the whole species into extinction. With this theory, we can suppose that at some point, there lived humans with no morals. Fortunately, they all died, because giving zero tosses about what anybody else thinks or feels is not a good way to be accepted. Humans are cooperative beings. They need to help each other. The ones that didn't died off, and only the ones who were nice and helpful to others could pass on their genes. Of course, we occasionally get outliers who seem to have no morals even these days, but that can't be helped - that happens all across nature. Evolution dictates one thing, but there will always be odd ones out.

Sorry if this response was a bit raw around the edges, it's really the first time I've been able to vent pretty much all of my main thoughts about religion into one argument. This is a pretty controversial topic to begin with though, so I doubt it's an issue. Please ask any questions if you disagree or are unsure about something I've written, I like a good religious debate.

I did not expect this to be so long.
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ARKA9

The evolved police dog.

Male
Pewter City
Seen February 1st, 2021
Posted February 28th, 2017
133 posts
8.4 Years
As a indian hindu (which i am proud to be) i must say that in our religion there is a lot of stuff which has not to be and is total crap. I think that god exists but cannot be achieved by idol worship or all ritual stuff (no offense for those who believe in this). I do not fear god and think that if he is our creator , would never set a "hell" for us.
I think of god as a mentor who can help in bitter times. I think of god as a friend on whom i can trust and complain. I do not think bad for those who do not believe in god , as most of my friends and even my brother do not believe in god. But still i do feel the presence of God. If you go by our mythology... you can find some illustrations which are being now proven scientifically. As a legend goes...

A god once in their childhood though of the sun as a giant mango. Due to their mischievous nature they flew towards the sun to eat it. The sun, alarmed by this, hits him on the face with his weapon.... After this a lot of stuff happens which i am not writing here....

This story may sound very inscientific to you (also to me) but a famous poet of that time wrote about the glory of this god in his poem. Now the scientists of this century... decipher the poem and tell us that the poem tells us the exact estimate of the distance between that sun and the earth during the summer equinox (remember the legend? ).

How could have a poet calculated the distance at that time? Though this is not enough proof for the existence of god but still I believe it.

A great Indian mathematician Srinivasa Ramanujan had given the proof of most of his theories as follows:

"I dont know, just some goddess appears in my mind, tells me the theory. I just write it on a paper and publish it"

His equations are now being proven by mathematicians all over the world.
If he was speaking the truth about this then we may say that god really exists.

PS: I totally agree with ShinyUmbreon in his post. What he said is 100% truth to me.
Sorry if i hurt anyone's feelings.
Age 30
Male
The Netherlands
Seen December 31st, 2016
Posted August 29th, 2016
122 posts
6.9 Years
I am an atheist, I don't think there is an all-creating and observing god. And it's true we can't disprove the existence of any god, nor can we prove one exists.

I for one am sure that in time science can and will disprove a god, it won't be in my lifetime but it'll happen. I've always figured that a god was an answer to that we don't understand. Like how Thor became a god; people couldn't grasp how lightning and thunder came to be. It's in our nature to have an explanation for everything that happens and during the time, when humans couldn't figure out how thunderstorms worked: It must be the work of a god and so creating the explanation to how thunderstorms came to be.

So, for a long time we as a species had no clue on how everything was created, thus it must be the work of a god. I know religion is way more than just the "tale" of how everything came to be, but this was an example. I'm also pretty sure that when gods are proven to be non-existant, people will still believe in it or hold on to religion.

Religion is on itself a harmless practice that helps a lot of people, I personally see religion as a guide to life. And if people want to have a religion, whichever one it is, should always be possible. I can be an atheist and you can believe in Allah, God, Buddha or whatever deity you want to believe in, for all I care you believe in the flying spaghetti monster.

And to be totally honest, I've always been interested in believes of others, I find it interesting to find out how for example the Islam works. Even as an atheist, you can learn from religion or how religious people interact with each other and how they use their religion as a red line through life.

I do however hate that religion is used to manipulate people. That is never the point of having a religion in my view. And especially during medieval times religion was used as a power tool of control, which in my view is the worst way to treat a religion.
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gimmepie

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