2nd Gen GEN 2 are bad starters?

Started by MrFox1993 May 15th, 2016 10:06 AM
  • 7774 views
  • 54 replies
Male
Seen May 19th, 2016
Posted May 18th, 2016
7 posts
7 Years
So I was playing PokeMMO earlier today and the channel I was in got into a argument and what gen is the best and it ended buy someone staying the gen 2 starters are bad so I'm just wondering what everyone opinion is on what's the best starters in all gens of Pokémon personally I enjoy gen 1+2 what do u think?

Mawa

The typo Queen

Age 30
Female
Canada
Seen August 13th, 2020
Posted March 1st, 2020
Well for me they are the best starters! But this generation is my favorite, these games are my favorite.
I mean, totodile is awesome!
I miiiiight be back?
And why am I not a supporter anymore >.<
Male
Obscure cities, that are dark.
Seen July 4th, 2016
Posted July 4th, 2016
611 posts
8.5 Years
Realistically the starters became more regularised and simplistic by R/S/E, and generally quite cutesy by D/P/Pt. Perhaps they're mourning the lack of this? In any case, G/S/C's starters aren't particularly bad by comparison to the others, and generally have an underpronounced look which is quite effective in the context.
When it dawns that Keats' idea of 'negative capability' is basically reducible to the public perception of Lucario.


Crizzle

Legend

Age 28
Male
USA
Seen February 3rd, 2023
Posted April 11th, 2020
943 posts
8.1 Years
If you ask me, Gen 2 starters are the best. Gen I and Gen III have good starters, but nothing beats Totodile and Cyndaquil, not to mention their awesome evolutions. Chikorita's okay too for those who like a more feminine Pokemon.
Pokemon Savage Silver
Check out the crappy hacks that I made:

Credit to Corazon(or whatever he calls himself now) for banner.
Pokemon CAWPS
Pokemon Outlaw

Gandhi Savage

OJAMA DELTA HURRICANE

Age 27
Male
Ireland
Seen July 28th, 2022
Posted April 2nd, 2019
699 posts
12.3 Years

Well I really dislike Chikorita so if they're coming at the starter set from that angle then I completely understand! However, I am a massive fan of both Cyndaquil and Totodile - they're like the ideal starter Pokémon: the perfect mix of cute and cool.

-under construction
twitter youtube instagram podcast
Female
Seen April 22nd, 2018
Posted March 2nd, 2018
895 posts
8.4 Years
I think it's because none of the Gen 2 starters have secondary types that cause them to be seen as underwhelming. Monotype Pokémon usually need extremely good stats and/or movepools to overcome the many drawbacks of having no secondary type.

And, none of them really have the stats or movepools that would do that. Typhlosion is a special attacker with mostly physical attacks (both GSC and HGSS), and Feraligatr is a physical attacker with mostly special attacks (GSC). The less said about Meganium, the better, especially when you consider that its own region's gym lineup renders it almost completely useless.

Imperator161

Seen February 5th, 2023
Posted July 31st, 2020
1,415 posts
14.7 Years
Competitively, the gen II starters aren't that great. It's a combination of the typing (I don't mind monotype starters, but they aren't unique enough to stand up against other "better" Pokemon of their types in a competitive situation), stats (not the best), and movesets (many of which didn't match their stats). Some of this improved after the physical/special split, when Feraligatr's movepool shifted from almost entirely special to more heavily physical, but there's nothing particularly amazing about the gen II starters in battle, especially when you consider them in their original form. Couple that to the fact that they still don't have megas, and most people haven't thought much about the gen II starters in a while.

That said, aesthetically, favorite starters are a matter of preference, and then gen II set is my second-favorite (after gen I). I like their designs (but I think I like simpler designs overall), and any one of them is good enough for getting through the main GSC game. I used the Totodile line and fell in love with it, and I've always loved how Typhlosion can learn Thunderpunch to take out water types (and the TM is available at the department store and not in game corner coins, which makes it that much better).
Diamond FC: 1504 2172 1147
White FC: 1721 2860 5156
3DS XL FC (X): 2466-2669-5197

Hikamaru

Age 30
Female
Australia
Seen January 24th, 2019
Posted September 4th, 2018
50,214 posts
12.2 Years
While these starters aren't badly designed, it's a combination of no dual-types and bad movepools that make the Johto starters underwhelming compared to other regions' starters. Then there's the Gym Leaders being completely unfavourable to Chikorita, making it one of the worst starters to use.
Gone forever for personal reasons.
Visit my Tumblr page if you wish to contact me.

http://daikenkki.tumblr.com/
Female
Seen April 22nd, 2018
Posted March 2nd, 2018
895 posts
8.4 Years
I think a big thing that inadvertently helped Cyndaquil and Totodile in GSC was a lack of decent Fire and Water types before the postgame.

One reason Squirtle wasn't the greatest choice in RBY (either as the starter in RB or as the gift in Yellow) was because of all the superior Water types you could get later on, such as Gyarados, Vaporeon, Starmie, Lapras, and Slowbro. That wasn't exactly the case in GSC, where the usefulness of most of these Pokémon was nerfed by either the split Special stat (Gyarados, Slowbro), lack of easily available Water Stones (Vaporeon, Starmie), or lack of Ice Beam/Thunderbolt TMs (Gyarados, Starmie, Lapras). Furthermore, the best new Water type, Kingdra, was a trade evolution (and with an item that wasn't even available until after the 8th badge) and possibly even needed to be bred to reach its maximum usefulness (ie. Aurora Beam).

This made Totodile a far more attractive choice in GSC than Squirtle was in RBY. You got it early, it had solid, usable stats, it was guaranteed a good Ice move early on with Ice Punch, and it also had Bite/Earthquake for extra coverage. It also probably did the best against the gyms and E4, overall. Neither of Feraligatr's weaknesses even appeared until Kanto (Surge and Erika), and by then, you likely had other Pokémon to easily deal with those gyms (heck, even Feraligatr itself could do it with Ice Punch/Earthquake).

As bad as the Water type situation was in GSC, though, Fire types had it even worse. Lack of Fire Stones eliminated Arcanine, Ninetales, and even Flareon as options, and Houndoom wasn't available until the postgame. That pretty much left Magmar as the only real alternative to Typhlosion and only in GS, mind you (outside of getting lucky with a Magby from the Odd Egg, Magmar wasn't available until Mt. Silver in Crystal). Sad as it may sound, a Kadabra, Alakazam, or Gengar with Fire Punch was probably the best alternative to Typhlosion.
Seen October 7th, 2018
Posted September 9th, 2018
87 posts
7 Years
I prefer Gen 1 the most, with Gen 2 as second-favorite. Didn't really like the starters much after Gen 2, for whatever reason.
Completed Challenges: Zodiac Challenge (Red) | Time Warp Challenge (Blue: Jurassic Jam | Stone Age | Egyptian Era | Medieval Era) | Solo Challenge (Blue: Blastoise | Red: Nidoking | Raticate) | Body Type Challenge: Quadrupedal (Blue) | Anime Style Challenge (Gold) | Randomized Nuzlocke (Blue) | Mono-Pokemon Challenge (Red: Gengar x3) | No Move Left Behind Challenge (Red) | Gender Fairness Challenge (Gold) | Champion Challenge Master (Blue | Gold)

Hedo

Male
Kanto Region
Seen June 6th, 2016
Posted June 4th, 2016
75 posts
7 Years
Nope, they're not bad at all. Or at least I don't think so.
But I might be a bit biased as Pokemon Crystal was the first one where I beat the elite four which was a reall proud moment for me lol :P

Totodile is actually one of my favorite starters because of the memories I made with it durring that play through.
Skitty is your God now

Hikamaru

Age 30
Female
Australia
Seen January 24th, 2019
Posted September 4th, 2018
50,214 posts
12.2 Years
I have enjoyed every generation of starters except for Torchic so, i can't really choose.
But Torchic is a 3rd Gen starter...

Anyways, agreeing with Betty, the reason why Totodile and Cyndaquil were appealing was the lack of good Water and Fire Pokemon until very late in the game. Chikorita was mainly outclassed by other Grass-types so there was less of a reason to use Chikorita, like how Squirtle wasn't the best pick in the Kanto games due to better Water-type options.
Gone forever for personal reasons.
Visit my Tumblr page if you wish to contact me.

http://daikenkki.tumblr.com/
Age 35
Male
United States
Seen June 7th, 2017
Posted July 28th, 2016
8 posts
7 Years
The Johto starters are unique in their own ways, as they're the only starters to not have any additional typings.

Though in my opinion, the weakest starters are the Unova starters, since I don't find any of them except for Contrary Serperior to be too helpful in the story. Samurott is decent, but the other water starters are better.

Though I find that the Hoenn starters are the strongest since I like their designs and their power.

Hikamaru

Age 30
Female
Australia
Seen January 24th, 2019
Posted September 4th, 2018
50,214 posts
12.2 Years
Though in my opinion, the weakest starters are the Unova starters, since I don't find any of them except for Contrary Serperior to be too helpful in the story. Samurott is decent, but the other water starters are better.
You are sorta on the right path there, given the Unova trio have the weakest base stat totals of all the starters and they all face getting outclassed by other Pokemon of their types (but then again, I love Unova and I still love these starters) and for a starter to be considered good to use in-game is not its stats or movepool, but if there are other options of their types that outclass them in terms of stats and movepool and depending on how far into the game those options were available, like what was pointed out regarding Totodile and Cyndaquil.
Gone forever for personal reasons.
Visit my Tumblr page if you wish to contact me.

http://daikenkki.tumblr.com/
People often confuse simplicity with something that is bad. The gen 2 starters are very basic and nothing about them particularly stands out. That said, I find them to be really wonderful Pokemon. I don't think they need a secondary typing or a mega evolution to make them great. I enjoy their designs and have always had a ton of fun using each and every one of them.

Bounsweet

Fruit Pokémon

Seen September 17th, 2018
Posted October 11th, 2017
2,102 posts
15.6 Years
Chikorita is tied with Fennekin as my all-time favorite starter. The fact that it is so "underwhelming" is part of the appeal to me, I like when my team is balanced, and not just a super powerful starter that kinda carries the rest of my team through the game, that takes the challenge out of it.

That said, I like Cyndaquil and Totodile a lot. Totodile was my first starter in Silver, Cyndaquil when I got Gold, but I've just grown much more partial to Chikorita's line since I picked it in Crystla, and I use it exclusively now. I love the fact that it's feminine, because seriously, girls play Pokémon too and sometimes it's nice to have a starter option that feels like it's sort of aimed for the cute/pretty/elegant side. I'm a little put off by gens where all of the final starter evolutions are meant to look super "tough" or macho, like the gen I starters (as much as I've grown to love Venusaur) or to a lesser extent the gen V starters (although Serperior does have a pretty nice design, it's entirely worthless without its HA, meanwhile Meganium at least has some bulk and access to Reflect/Light Screen).
Seen April 17th, 2017
Posted February 3rd, 2017
150 posts
7.1 Years
Competitively? They're not exactly the best of starters compared to some of the other starters we have.

Otherwise? They're great, imo. They're still my favorite starters out of all the generations (though arguably Alola might become my favorites hahaha). Totodile was my first starter so I especially have a soft spots for him and Cyndaquil and Chikorita I also love to bits. I hope one day they get good Mega so they can fend their own competitively, but really even if they don't I wouldn't really give a damn. They'll still be precious to me.
☆彡

Dedenne1

Changing Seasons~

Age 24
Non-binary
Mewni~
Seen September 30th, 2021
Posted March 4th, 2018
6,454 posts
9.6 Years
As far as stats and movesets go id say the starters arent that great. However I love the Cynaquil line (except for typhlosion) as far as design and chikoritas line has great overall designs. Totodile is the only one i can say i dislike just cause idk not that powerful or cute.
-
Playing
Reading
Credit
Haitus
Discord
Seen April 22nd, 2019
Posted April 22nd, 2019
64 posts
8 Years
Chikorita is underrated i feel. Its not the awesome sweeper that the water/fire starter is, and in general SP favors that type of play. But it got lot of tactical use, light screen, reflect, leech seed. Also, , while water types and arguably fire types are abundant, you cant really get a get a solid grass type until late game.

Limey-chan

Batzu

He/Him
Mt Moon
Seen May 27th, 2021
Posted October 31st, 2020
2,523 posts
14.2 Years
I'm quite surprised, reading this thread, that a lot of people share my favourite Gen II starter, Totodile. I was always under the impression that 90% of people liked Cyndaquil; the more you know, I guess!

But anyway, whilst it's true that I didn't quite share the same affection for the Gen II starters that I did for the Gen I originals, I thought they were solid enough Pokemon; both in terms of design and competitiveness. I believe they share their base stats with the other starters, the only real drawback was that they were monotype (though, arguably, this could be seen as an advantage to the Chicorita line, I hated how many part-Poison types there were in Gen I).

tl,dr; I liked them.

Paired with Pigu