Hello everyone and welcome to my
uber singles team guide
hopefully with this guide you can
either make your gameplay improve
or you can learn a thing or two
from my standpoint
so without any further small talk
let's begin shall we?
one note i should probably start this
on is the fact i will be using
pokemon showdown to demonstrate how
you might want to start out.
disclaimer aside, let's jump right
into it.
For starters you might want to
find a type coverage chart online,
google is your friend here guys.
What this allows you to do is
make a team and see how little of
a weakness gap you can make.
A good example is having minimal
ground weakness. A lot of powerful
ground type users exist, but not
all of them are actually ground type
a good example of this is
altaria with earthquake.
I will put a spoiler containing
the team comp i'll be focusing on
down below. --v
Spoiler:
Gengar-Mega @ Gengarite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Sludge Bomb
- Icy Wind
With Gengar, his damage potential is key in singles because he has a very high speed and damage output, so focusing on things such as Taunt and Destiny Bond aren't really required, as having better type selection is more important for taking
out unprepared threats.
Bronzong @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Ancient Power
- Rest
- Substitute
It was so difficult finding a useful steel type that fit the coverage i was looking for, but with Bronzongs astounding defensive stats, and his access to levitate and Ancient Power made it all the more better for me. This Bronzong is sort of a decoy in a sense. the trick here is to have it go first (if possible) at least for a turn. you can do one of 2 things here,
1. if they have a bulky wall sort of deal going on, or something rather unpredictable, your usual safest bet is to throw out an
ancient power because of the 10 percent increase to your five base combat related stats (besides HP obviously) because what this kind of does is make some players overthink what type of moveset you're going with, allowing you to potentially make them switch out and possibly waste a good resource.
2. Setting up Substitute acts sort of like a mini protect that you can spam, making it way useful with resto chesto. even if you just need the heal and you already ate your berry it takes 2 turns to awaken every time you use rest at below %100 HP.
You guys can also keep in mind that if this sort of strategy does not work for you, you can always make adjustments to what you prefer. Bronzong is very slow, so be careful to not overextend on some plays. Keep him out as long as you think you're able to.
Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Mach Punch
- Seed Bomb
not much to say here, standard Toxic Orb Breloom for singles.
Slowbro @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Scald
- Slack Off
- Thunder Wave
Ahh Slowbro, you have had quite the streak of being overpowered my old friend.
Remember Generation 1's SPECIAL Stat? And how much differently more significant Amnesia was on Mewtwo, Slowbro, and Snorlax alike? Those were some interesting times.
Fire Blast is here to keep Grass users in check, Scald is Scald, Slack Off, and Thunder Wave is standard from here on out.
Salamence @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Crunch
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- Zen Headbutt
I was browsing the GTS on ORAS and Searched for Salamence at like, 1:00 in the morning and found one who was just looking for any Latios, needless to say i made an easy trade :) sort of an unrelevant story, but it contributes to why i made this specific moveset.
The moveset that the salamence i received had this same moveset apart from draco meteor being dragon claw in my game.
Having this moveset usually can result in OHKO's if done correctly and timed perfectly. Can usually sweep at least 2-3 pokemon in a few turns if he has no other counters to deal with.
Volcarona @ Focus Sash
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fiery Dance
- Giga Drain
- Bug Buzz
- Quiver Dance
As some of you already might've guessed it, Volcarona has a notorious echo behind his name. He's arguably the best bug type in the game. While he has a 4x weakness to rock, his literal existence can make players rage quit. Standard moveset for cancerous fire bug here, but your choice between sitrus berry and focus sash.
a basic example of an anti ground
moveset. this team also has a lot of
good type coverage overall if you
play a battle out correctly.
Just keep in mind that you won't win
every time and this game is based on
RNG (Random Generated Numbers), and by certain
stats of course.
now in terms of weakness coverage,
one thing to keep in mind, is not
how many pokemon are weak to one
specific typing, for example mine
being fire with bronzong and breloom
but how you can cover that weakness
and make your opponent either flunk
or mispredict your next course of '
action.
let's take a great example like
Talonflame, analyze how you can make
a good outplay into your favor.
For instance, my bronzong has max
HP, and max defense. but his ability
is levitate, so i would NOT be able
to tank a flare blitz in this case.
if it was heatproof then he could
easily.
but sacrificing something as
valueable as levitate for something
like heatproof doesn't make certain
team comps have to worry about it
and i bet a lot of people are going
to see my next solution to it pretty
obvious.
slowbro is
literally a wonder drug for
Talonflame haters. he has a superb
move set, great type coverage,
high defense, and crazy OHKO
resistance from physical damage.
not to mention having his own
recovery is absolutely awesome.
I went over defenses first for this
guide because it is the more
important thing to be focusing on
in some areas, simply because
leaving something like a landorus t
out against for instance a Mamoswine
with ice shard after landorus already
went. you want to have good outs
to something problematic but at the
same time you want to keep what
sweepers you have left.
now we can go into offenses and
such. but before we go there, there
is one more thing i should mention.
this guide is probably not going
to help you in vgc / double formats
because when it comes to vgc, it is
a lot more difficult (for me) to
make a good outcome against primals
because of how vgc's rules work.
VGC's 2016 format is consisted of ;
being able to run 2 legendaries in
any party, 2 of the same item cannot
be used, specific time limits, yada
yada not as important. Having 2
legendaries is fine and all, but for
some reason it is actually a lot more
challenging for more diverse team
coverages, and instead becomes easier
with building against certain outcomes
and specific movesets / gimmicks.
you can have a bulky slow type of pokemon, but if a smeargle
dark voids both of your pokemon,
you have one of two options
switch out and lose either whatever
advantage you had, or just waiting
it out and risk a KO. it's super
unhealthy, and can only be countered
with certain things. if you feel
otherwise, i am not opposed to you,
i just have a different standpoint
on what i prefer playing. Glad we
got that across civilly.
moving forward here,
offense is detrimental for sweeping
teams when they least expect it, or
overthink a situation.
this is where switches come in. as
obvious as it may feel, switching
in and out of certain situations is
key into staying alive or making a
comeback but is also very risky.
one thing very difficult with making
certain team comps is knowing what
is going to counter you hardest,
having 2 physical sweepers of any
useful movepools is really awesome
to start with, and having 2 special
sweepers can make anything unprepared punished hard.
We'll start with physical attackers,
with physical attackers you want to
do something rather less known for
most. Having at least 1 bulky max
hp sweeper on your physical damage
roster, - preferably with access to
priority moves like Mach Punch.
Breloom fits this job very well,
just keep him away from talonflame
and ice.
the next type of physical sweeper
you should at least try to have 1
of is something with very high speed
and very high base damage output.
Salamence can fit this case very well
due to his access of both physical
and special attacks that benefit him
greatly.
should probably use choice scarf
or assault vest with a moveset like
this depending on outspeeding something
or making you have a better chance
against special attacks.
as for special attackers, you can
run just about anything that fits
your type coverage, as for me, i
prefer using mega gengar and
volcarona, because they both can
become severe problems if left un-
checked.
Be sure to let me know if i did an
alright job on giving you guys ins-
ight on uber singles and maybe some-
thing more. i hope you all learned
at least something from getting this
far in the wall of text.
Have a good day everyone! Be sure
to leave criticisms down below!
Pokemon Moon FC:
0834-5665-4914 (if a deformed Mii is what you see, you did it right)
I'll have you know that Ubers is a totally different environment from OU and below. For starters, the Pokemon found there are incredibly powerful, like Primal Groudon (which should be in just about every serious Uber team because of how stupidly good it is).
Bronzong is a terrible option in Ubers. Ancient Power as a sole attack isn't doing it any favors, given its low PP and mediocre base power without STAB. Primal Groudon, as mentioned earlier, is one of the best defensive Pokemon to fall back on:
-Stealth Rock
-Precipice Blades/Earthquake
-Lava Plume/Stone Edge
-Roar/Dragon Tail/Thunder Wave
Nature: Relaxed
EVs: 252 HP/56 Def/200 SDef
Item: Red Orb
The only use for Thunderbolt is to hit Ho-Oh, and that's about it. Better offensive trapping Gengar sets below:
-Shadow Ball/Focus Blast
-Sludge Wave
-Taunt/Protect
-Destiny Bond
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Gengarite
The first set utilizes Destiny Bond to let Gengar take an opponent down with it. The second set uses status moves that are spread by the above Primal Groudon set to its advantage with Hex.
Here's a particularly cruel way to have Mega Gengar trap and eliminate targets:
-Perish Song
-Protect
-Taunt/Disable
-Substitute/Disable
Nature: Timid
EVs: 248 HP/84 SDef/176 Spe
Item: Gengarite
This set focuses on trapping opponents with Perish Song, then stalling out the turns before Gengar's own perish count hits 0; when Gengar's perish count hits 1, that's when it should get out of the battle.
Breloom is a particularly poor sleep inducer in Ubers because of its extreme frailty and terrible Speed by Uber standards. Darkrai is superior because it's faster and hits (slightly) harder:
-Dark Pulse
-Nasty Plot/Thunder
-Sludge Bomb/Thunder
-Dark Void
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb
Slowbro /could/ work in Ubers, but the extreme presence of Primal Groudon makes this a difficult task. Primal Kyogre is a better bulky Water Pokemon to turn to because it can get rid of Desolate Land with Primordial Sea. This is somewhat shaky, since Kyogre can risk getting hit hard by Precipice Blades on the switch:
-Calm Mind
-Origin Pulse
-Ice Beam/Blizzard
-Thunder/Hidden Power (Ground)
Nature: Modest
EVs: 172 HP/252 SAtk/84 Spe
Item: Blue Orb
or
-Scald
-Ice Beam/Roar
-Rest
-Sleep Talk
Nature: Bold
EVs: 248 HP/248 Def/12 Spe
Item: Blue Orb
or
-Waterfall
-Earthquake
-Ice Beam
-Thunder Wave
Nature: Adamant/Brave
EVs: 248 HP/252 Atk/8 SDef
Item: Blue Orb
Mega Salamence is superior to its regular counterpart in just about every way possible. This is because of the former's massive physical bulk and Aerilate, an ability turns Normal moves into Flying ones. This makes Salamence threatening to even Fairy Pokemon, as they risk getting hit hard by Aerilate Return/Double-Edge. Your Mega slot is already taken up by Gengar, so Mega Salamence is a no-go. Rayquaza is a harder-hitting substitute:
-Dragon Dance/Swords Dance
-Dragon Ascent
-Extreme Speed
-Earthquake/Waterfall/V-Create
Nature: Adamant/Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Lum Berry/Charti Berry
or
-Draco Meteor
-Dragon Ascent
-Extreme Speed
-Earthquake/V-Create
Nature: Naive
EVs: 252 Atk/40 SAtk/216 Spe
Item: Life Orb
or
-Dragon Ascent
-V-Create
-Earthquake
-Extreme Speed
Nature: Jolly/Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Choice Band
You can also use Normal Arceus as one of the best revenge killers in the game:
-Swords Dance
-Extreme Speed
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge/Shadow Claw
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb
Volcarona is just terrible in Ubers. It's walled by Ho-Oh, another common Uber threat, and has plenty of common weaknesses. If you want a mid/late-game special boosting sweeper, Xerneas is your best bet, as it has the bulk and typing to do its job:
-Geomancy
-Moonblast
-Focus Blast/Hidden Power (Ground)
-Thunder/Aromatherapy
Nature: Modest
EVs: 184 HP/28 Def/252 SAtk/44 Spe
Item: Power Herb
Yes, Geomancy takes 2 turns to fully set up, but the Power Herb removes the charge turn (only once).
If you're using Rayquaza over Arceus, use the last team slot for Rapid Spin/Defog support to get Stealth Rock off the field. Fairy Arceus can do this viably:
-Judgment
-Defog
-Earth Power/Toxic
-Recover
Nature: Bold/Timid
EVs: 248 HP/204 Def/52 Spe
Item: Pixie Plate
Origin Giratina also works well as a Defogger, as it can also be paired with Hex Mega Gengar to keep up offensive pressure with status and Hex:
-Hex
-Draco Meteor
-Thunder Wave
-Defog
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 Def/244 SAtk/12 Spe
Item: Griseous Orb
Tl;dr, you don't seem to have adequate knowledge of the Ubers metagame. Have a good, long read at this forum here and see which Pokemon work and which ones don't.
Edit: if you really want more Ground immunities, Yveltal, Ho-oh, and Lugia are viable options. Remember that they need Rapid Spin/Defog support, too:
PlatinumDude, there are actually lower-tiered Pokemon that fare very well in Ubers. I peaked #1 on Pokemon Showdown's Ubers ladder under two different names with a team that features Bronzong; it is far from a terrible Pokemon in the tier.
-This format is difficult/obnoxious to read, please fix that.
-I don't see how this is an Ubers-specific guide. There's no mention of any common Uber tier pokes (other than literally one mention of Mega Gengar in the sample team) or anything about the Ubers metagame in general.
-The majority of your advice basically comes down to "cover type weaknesses and have 2 physical sweepers+2 special sweepers on your team", and team-building ain't anywhere near that simple.
Nah ンン
“No, I... I have to be strong. Everyone expects me to."
Originally Posted by GoldenAltaria
[ Original Post ]
PlatinumDude, there are actually lower-tiered Pokemon that fare very well in Ubers. I peaked #1 on Pokemon Showdown's Ubers ladder under two different names with a team that features Bronzong; it is far from a terrible Pokemon in the tier.
I'm aware of this. I'm just giving some examples of good Uber-tier Pokemon.
That being said, this is a better set for Bronzong to use outside of a mediocre Calm Mind set:
-Stealth Rock
-Gyro Ball
-Toxic
-Protect/Skill Swap/Trick Room
Nature: Sassy
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Skill Swap may seem like a weird option, but it lets Bronzong set up Stealth Rock in front of the Magic Bounce users Mega Sableye and Mega Diancie.
To elaborate for the OP, Skarmory, Tyranitar, Excadrill, Klefki, and [email protected] are better examples of viable non-Ubers:
This plays similarly to Skarmory's OU set, but it lacks offensive moves completely, mainly because Skarmory is way too weak by Uber standards to damage anything.
The main niche of this set is to allow Excadrill to beat Origin Giratina and Ghost Arceus, common Defog users and Rapid Spin blockers. Mold Breaker also ignores Magic Bounce completely to set up Stealth Rock.
or (must be paired with Tyranitar)
-Earthquake
-Iron Head
-Rapid Spin/Rock Slide
-Swords Dance/Rock Slide
Nature: Jolly/Adamant
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Air Balloon
Ability: Sand Rush
or
-Draco Meteor
-Psyshock
-Grass Knot
-Thunder/Hidden Power (Fire)
Nature: Timid/Modest
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Soul Dew
The Latis are capable of using Soul Dew in Ubers, making them viable options there. Soul Dew is banned in OU because it essentially gives them a free Calm Mind boost.
I touched upon Mega Sableye and Mega Diancie as Magic Bounce users. They work well in Ubers because of said ability stopping common hazard leads like Speed Deoxys and Greninja:
Diancie:
-Diamond Storm
-Moonblast
-Earth Power
-Protect/Heal Bell/Calm Mind
Nature: Timid/Naive
EVs: 80 Atk/252 SAtk/176 Spe
Item: Diancite
or
-Diamond Storm
-Moonblast/Toxic
-Heal Bell
-Protect
Nature: Bold/Impish
EVs: 248 HP/124 Def/136 Spe
Item: Diancite
The former set is similar to how Diancie would play in OU if you're interested in that, while the latter lets you take advantage of Diancie's ability to check Ho-oh and Mega Salamence lacking Earthquake.
To add to what Nah said, there isn't a fixed style for building teams. Yes, covering weaknesses is important, but some Pokemon are better for certain play styles than others. For example, Chansey and Blissey (yes, they are viable in Ubers) are better in stall teams than offensive ones because of their passiveness and momentum-killing in said offensive teams.
You seem to have extensive knowledge of the meta; this is an excellent guide, PlatinumDude! It makes me happy that someone else appreciates Ubers as much as I do! The only thing I would add to this guide besides more Pokemon is perhaps a note about Speed creeping. While the spreads that you have provided are definitely viable, I tend to run a few more Speed EVs at the cost of a small power or bulk dip, as long as I don't miss out on any 2HKOs or OHKOS/don't allow my opponent to OHKO or 2HKO me with a specific attack. For example, Smogon's Latias spread makes it such that Lati is outsped by Landorus-I by 1 point. Pulling 8 EVs out of Latias' Special Attack won't hurt it in the long run, and while Landorus-I isn't used very often, it's nice to have insurance in that regard. Such creep also lets you outpace other Latiases in a pinch, which is also quite helpful.
-This format is difficult/obnoxious to read, please fix that.
-I don't see how this is an Ubers-specific guide. There's no mention of any common Uber tier pokes (other than literally one mention of Mega Gengar in the sample team) or anything about the Ubers metagame in general.
-The majority of your advice basically comes down to "cover type weaknesses and have 2 physical sweepers+2 special sweepers on your team", and team-building ain't anywhere near that simple.
- If I am pointing out why this is singles related only then I'm going to keep my input on VGC to further explain my standpoint.
-Having Ubers on your team alone can be counted as an Uber team, I'm making a team that is unorthodox for ubers but still works decently well sense I don't really see Primals and such running around.
- If you found pieces of information either misleading or not specific enough then maybe you can either quote or say what more I should cover more of.
As for lacking anything above psuedo-legendary, I try to make more of an effort to use less legends simply because I prefer having a challenge, and i deem legendaries to be countered pretty easily if mis used, so i tend to stray away from them in general.
Pokemon Moon FC:
0834-5665-4914 (if a deformed Mii is what you see, you did it right)
I'm aware of this. I'm just giving some examples of good Uber-tier Pokemon.
That being said, this is a better set for Bronzong to use outside of a mediocre Calm Mind set:
-Stealth Rock
-Gyro Ball
-Toxic
-Protect/Skill Swap/Trick Room
Nature: Sassy
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Skill Swap may seem like a weird option, but it lets Bronzong set up Stealth Rock in front of the Magic Bounce users Mega Sableye and Mega Diancie.
To elaborate for the OP, Skarmory, Tyranitar, Excadrill, Klefki, and [email protected] are better examples of viable non-Ubers:
This plays similarly to Skarmory's OU set, but it lacks offensive moves completely, mainly because Skarmory is way too weak by Uber standards to damage anything.
The main niche of this set is to allow Excadrill to beat Origin Giratina and Ghost Arceus, common Defog users and Rapid Spin blockers. Mold Breaker also ignores Magic Bounce completely to set up Stealth Rock.
or (must be paired with Tyranitar)
-Earthquake
-Iron Head
-Rapid Spin/Rock Slide
-Swords Dance/Rock Slide
Nature: Jolly/Adamant
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Air Balloon
Ability: Sand Rush
or
-Draco Meteor
-Psyshock
-Grass Knot
-Thunder/Hidden Power (Fire)
Nature: Timid/Modest
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Soul Dew
The Latis are capable of using Soul Dew in Ubers, making them viable options there. Soul Dew is banned in OU because it essentially gives them a free Calm Mind boost.
I touched upon Mega Sableye and Mega Diancie as Magic Bounce users. They work well in Ubers because of said ability stopping common hazard leads like Speed Deoxys and Greninja:
Diancie:
-Diamond Storm
-Moonblast
-Earth Power
-Protect/Heal Bell/Calm Mind
Nature: Timid/Naive
EVs: 80 Atk/252 SAtk/176 Spe
Item: Diancite
or
-Diamond Storm
-Moonblast/Toxic
-Heal Bell
-Protect
Nature: Bold/Impish
EVs: 248 HP/124 Def/136 Spe
Item: Diancite
The former set is similar to how Diancie would play in OU if you're interested in that, while the latter lets you take advantage of Diancie's ability to check Ho-oh and Mega Salamence lacking Earthquake.
To add to what Nah said, there isn't a fixed style for building teams. Yes, covering weaknesses is important, but some Pokemon are better for certain play styles than others. For example, Chansey and Blissey (yes, they are viable in Ubers) are better in stall teams than offensive ones because of their passiveness and momentum-killing in said offensive teams.
I'll be sure to look more into your advice you've given so far! Great builds all around, I just have a set playstyle I'm sort of sticking to, chances are if what I'm currently trying to do doesn't work out I'll make some changes :P
Pokemon Moon FC:
0834-5665-4914 (if a deformed Mii is what you see, you did it right)
Originally Posted by ShinyGyaradosisShiny
[ Original Post ]
- If I am pointing out why this is singles related only then I'm going to keep my input on VGC to further explain my standpoint.
Sorry, I meant that literally the way you typed the OP makes it hard to read, not anything about battle formats.
Having Ubers on your team alone can be counted as an Uber team, I'm making a team that is unorthodox for ubers but still works decently well
That is fine, but since this is a guide, wouldn't it make sense to at least begin with more common/basic stuff and then get into more unorthodox things?
sense I don't really see Primals and such running around
....we are playing the same meta though, right? Smogon Ubers? Cuz In my experience Primals and legendaries are everywhere in Ubers.
As for lacking anything above psuedo-legendary, I try to make more of an effort to use less legends simply because I prefer having a challenge, and i deem legendaries to be countered pretty easily if mis used, so i tend to stray away from them in general.
That's just your personal preference though. If this is a guide for Ubers in general, you need to include the common stuff, ie legendaries.
Unless this is specifically meant to be a "how to succeed while being unorthodox in Ubers" guide. Then that changes things.
Also "and i deem legendaries to be countered pretty easily if mis used" is true of all 'mons, not just legendaries.
Nah ンン
“No, I... I have to be strong. Everyone expects me to."
Hi. I play Ubers. I might as well post a couple of sets, plus some general advice.
ORAS Ubers is a very offensive tier where the only two really good team archetypes are hyper offence and balance. Stall is mediocre at best as there are so many powerful threats that dunk it, but it's workable.
Primal Groudon is mandatory for every serious team. It is just that good. Think of Snorlax in GSC OU. There are so many different sets it can run and roles it can fill: it can be a Stealth Rock setter, Thunder Wave + Swords Dance wallbreaker, a fully physical and mixed Rock Polish sweeper, a Swords Dance wallbreaker, a full-blown special attacker... it is simply that incredible.
Here's a Stealth Rock set:
Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 248 HP / 144 Def / 56 SpD / 60 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch
- Roar
I like to run Speed creep to catch out other Primal Groudon that think I'm running the analysis spread, which trades winning mirror matches for beating Primal Kyogre (which isn't really that difficult in this metagame). I subtract EVs from Defense rather than Special Defense so that Groudon can remain a half-decent Xerneas check. Roar phases out Xerneas that think they can sweep, Earthquake is mandatory STAB, and Fire Punch lets me get past Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Bronzong. You could run Stone Edge in place of Fire Punch if you don't want to be walled by Ho-Oh and Dragon Tail in place of Roar if you want to deal good damage to predicted Latios, Latias, and Giratina-O switch-ins, but then you can't phase out Xerneas.
Something no one has posted is Water Arceus:
Arceus-Water @ Splash Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
Bold Nature
- Recover
- Toxic
- Ice Beam
- Judgment
This is awesome glue for balanced teams. It can't check Swords Dance Primal Groudon, but it beats most other variants thanks to its excellent bulk allowing it to Toxic stall Groudon. Defog is a slash for both Judgment and Ice Beam on the Smogon analysis, but Water Arceus is a crappy Defogger since it does not want to lose either Judgement, which gives it STAB, or Ice Beam, which lets it deter Mega Salamence from switching in and chip Primal Groudon. Use Dragon Arceus if you need a Defogging Arceus forme.
One of the most common sets on the ladder is:
Arceus-Fairy @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 Spe
Bold / Timid Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Recover
- Judgment
- Toxic / Earth Power
Fairy Arceus beats both Magic Bouncers and all common Defoggers thanks to its Fairy-type Judgement. It has the same bulk as all Arceus formes do, so it can do it reliably and well. Earth Power is usable over Toxic to whack Steel-types, but then you're Ho-Oh bait, which isn't good in a metagame where Ho-Oh is one of the top 5 Pokemon. There is certain opportunity cost to running Fairy Arceus, but hey. If you build your team around it, anything is possible.
A few other things:
- Latias kind of sucks. It faces massive competition with Latios for a teamslot, as the extra special bulk really doesn't make much difference in this metagame - the extra power Latios brings is just too good to pass up. It gets Healing Wish if you must run it, though. It can also check Ground Arceus better than Latios; always run Grass Knot on Latias.
- There are many Arceus formes you should avoid:
• Bug Arceus - loses to 39 million common Pokemon including Ho-Oh and Primal Groudon and must run a Swords Dance set to be remotely useful, which is laughably weak
• Fire Arceus - fried by Primal Groudon, Tyranitar, Blissey + Chansey, most Dragon types; cannot run Recover since it loses to even more Pokemon than it already does if it forgoes a coverage move
• Psychic Arceus - absolute garbage Arceus forme that has absolutely no niche in the tier and loses to pretty much anything good
• Fighting Arceus - provides very little utility outside of checking Extreme Killer Arceus + Darkrai; insignificant niche - although there is a weird set consisting of Judgment / Ice Beam / Stone Edge / Recover that lures things like Ho-Oh; not recommended for new players
• Electric Arceus - invalidated by Primal Groudon and is forced to run dual status to be of any use
• Poison Arceus - complete waste of your Arceus slot that does nothing else aside from check Xerneas; there is always something you can run that does that and more (or more in general)
• Grass Arceus - loses to both Primals and has a mediocre offensive and defensive typing
• Flying Arceus - stallbreaker that loses to stall
• Dark Arceus - stallbreaker that loses to stall slightly less badly than Flying Arceus
• Steel Arceus - meh in general; can't check Xerneas thanks to Fighting weakness, loses to Primal Groudon - only 'good' set is Swords Dance, which has power issues similar to Bug Arceus and must rely on a mediocre STAB typing and move
- The Geomancy Xerneas spread on the analysis is suboptimal. Xerneas now runs 0 HP / 200 Defense EVs instead of 184 HP / 28 Defense EVs so it doesn't get smacked by Latios's Psyshock as much (Modest Latios is in vogue and that spread was devised when Timid Latios was a thing, if I recall correctly).
I could write (a lot) more but I can't be bothered right now. I hope I am of assistance!
Hi. I play Ubers. I might as well post a couple of sets, plus some general advice.
ORAS Ubers is a very offensive tier where the only two really good team archetypes are hyper offence and balance. Stall is mediocre at best as there are so many powerful threats that dunk it, but it's workable.
Primal Groudon is mandatory for every serious team. It is just that good. Think of Snorlax in GSC OU. There are so many different sets it can run and roles it can fill: it can be a Stealth Rock setter, Thunder Wave + Swords Dance wallbreaker, a fully physical and mixed Rock Polish sweeper, a Swords Dance wallbreaker, a full-blown special attacker... it is simply that incredible.
Here's a Stealth Rock set:
Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 248 HP / 144 Def / 56 SpD / 60 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch
- Roar
I like to run Speed creep to catch out other Primal Groudon that think I'm running the analysis spread, which trades winning mirror matches for beating Primal Kyogre (which isn't really that difficult in this metagame). I subtract EVs from Defense rather than Special Defense so that Groudon can remain a half-decent Xerneas check. Roar phases out Xerneas that think they can sweep, Earthquake is mandatory STAB, and Fire Punch lets me get past Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Bronzong. You could run Stone Edge in place of Fire Punch if you don't want to be walled by Ho-Oh and Dragon Tail in place of Roar if you want to deal good damage to predicted Latios, Latias, and Giratina-O switch-ins, but then you can't phase out Xerneas.
Something no one has posted is Water Arceus:
Arceus-Water @ Splash Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
Bold Nature
- Recover
- Toxic
- Ice Beam
- Judgment
This is awesome glue for balanced teams. It can't check Swords Dance Primal Groudon, but it beats most other variants thanks to its excellent bulk allowing it to Toxic stall Groudon. Defog is a slash for both Judgment and Ice Beam on the Smogon analysis, but Water Arceus is a crappy Defogger since it does not want to lose either Judgement, which gives it STAB, or Ice Beam, which lets it deter Mega Salamence from switching in and chip Primal Groudon. Use Dragon Arceus if you need a Defogging Arceus forme.
One of the most common sets on the ladder is:
Arceus-Fairy @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 Spe
Bold / Timid Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Recover
- Judgment
- Toxic / Earth Power
Fairy Arceus beats both Magic Bouncers and all common Defoggers thanks to its Fairy-type Judgement. It has the same bulk as all Arceus formes do, so it can do it reliably and well. Earth Power is usable over Toxic to whack Steel-types, but then you're Ho-Oh bait, which isn't good in a metagame where Ho-Oh is one of the top 5 Pokemon. There is certain opportunity cost to running Fairy Arceus, but hey. If you build your team around it, anything is possible.
A few other things:
- Latias kind of sucks. It faces massive competition with Latios for a teamslot, as the extra special bulk really doesn't make much difference in this metagame - the extra power Latios brings is just too good to pass up. It gets Healing Wish if you must run it, though. It can also check Ground Arceus better than Latios; always run Grass Knot on Latias.
- There are many Arceus formes you should avoid:
• Bug Arceus - loses to 39 million common Pokemon including Ho-Oh and Primal Groudon and must run a Swords Dance set to be remotely useful, which is laughably weak
• Fire Arceus - fried by Primal Groudon, Tyranitar, Blissey + Chansey, most Dragon types; cannot run Recover since it loses to even more Pokemon than it already does if it forgoes a coverage move
• Psychic Arceus - absolute garbage Arceus forme that has absolutely no niche in the tier and loses to pretty much anything good
• Fighting Arceus - provides very little utility outside of checking Extreme Killer Arceus + Darkrai; insignificant niche - although there is a weird set consisting of Judgment / Ice Beam / Stone Edge / Recover that lures things like Ho-Oh; not recommended for new players
• Electric Arceus - invalidated by Primal Groudon and is forced to run dual status to be of any use
• Poison Arceus - complete waste of your Arceus slot that does nothing else aside from check Xerneas; there is always something you can run that does that and more (or more in general)
• Grass Arceus - loses to both Primals and has a mediocre offensive and defensive typing
• Flying Arceus - stallbreaker that loses to stall
• Dark Arceus - stallbreaker that loses to stall slightly less badly than Flying Arceus
• Steel Arceus - meh in general; can't check Xerneas thanks to Fighting weakness, loses to Primal Groudon - only 'good' set is Swords Dance, which has power issues similar to Bug Arceus and must rely on a mediocre STAB typing and move
- The Geomancy Xerneas spread on the analysis is suboptimal. Xerneas now runs 0 HP / 200 Defense EVs instead of 184 HP / 28 Defense EVs so it doesn't get smacked by Latios's Psyshock as much (Modest Latios is in vogue and that spread was devised when Timid Latios was a thing, if I recall correctly).
I could write (a lot) more but I can't be bothered right now. I hope I am of assistance!
I don't necessarily agree with Dark Arceus being a bad Arceus forme. It's usable, but not as popular. How does it lose to stall not as badly as Flying Arceus? Last I checked, it can afford to use mono-Dark effectively, since nothing is immune to it. It can also Perish-trap when your Mega slot is already taken.
But yeah, I'm in agreement that the other Arceus formes on the list you mentioned aren't as good.
This is just my opinion, but sometimes it's okay for Primal Groudon to be slower than Primal Kyogre, so that the latter's weather will be overridden by the former in the event both get into battle at the same time.