Alola Forms Page 11

Started by blue August 1st, 2016 5:11 AM
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Bobbylicious

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Poor JWittz hasn't heard about the Riddle Leaks and how one of those leaks crossed out Kanto Pokémon that aren't getting an Alolan forms, which are unfortunately on his list (Lapras, Dragonite, Wigglytuff, and Machamp).
Such a shame really. I really liked his ideas for Lapras and Dragonite. The rest I didn't really like (though I give him kudos for making Golem be more unique than the original designs who just want lava flowing through the cracks). His original fire-Jynx design was also really cool, and much more original that his mermaid-Jynx, would have loved to see some proper art from that design, and it kind of makes me want to see Jynx get an Alola form like that, however unlikely it may be. Rapidash was also really cool so I wouldn't mind seeing something like that if it gets one.


That aside, out of the Pokemon still in the running for Alola forms, there aren't really that many I want (apart from the afore mentioned Jynx and Rapidash). The Ekans/Oddish line are really the only ones I want now. But in saying that, I don't really have all that of a creative stride to me, and I just can't see any of them getting different forms and changing types, so if I were to see some more Pokemon get Alola forms, I would probably like them seeing their designs. I just wish the list wasn't so condensed, some of the crossed out Pokemon I think could have really cool designs - such as Omanyte, Kabuto, Lapras, Dragonite, Drowzee, and Tauros.

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Technically, any given Pokemon could be in the game in both forms. It's still a possibility. For example, it may be possible to have both a Meowth and an Alolan Meowth in this game. Maybe.
Well, it has been confirmed that a non-Alolan Form can be transferred to Sun & Moon and stay as it is. But the thing to know is, if a Pokemon has appeared in Sun & Moon trailers, promotional material and footage in the normal form it's safe to assume that Pokemon won't get an Alolan Form.
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blue

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Well, we did have the overworld model for normal Meowth in one of the very first trailers which was a few weeks prior to the Alola form announcement. I suppose it's just as easy to obtain the normal form of the Pokemon as it is the alolan, that would explain why the protag's mother owns a normal Meowth.

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Well, we did have the overworld model for normal Meowth in one of the very first trailers which was a few weeks prior to the Alola form announcement. I suppose it's just as easy to obtain the normal form of the Pokemon as it is the alolan, that would explain why the protag's mother owns a normal Meowth.
The protagonist and his/her mother moved to Alola from Kanto, which is likely why the mother has a non-Alolan Meowth.
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Poor JWittz hasn't heard about the Riddle Leaks and how one of those leaks crossed out Kanto Pokémon that aren't getting an Alolan forms, which are unfortunately on his list (Lapras, Dragonite, Wigglytuff, and Machamp).
What the leaks have crossed out shouldn't have any bearing on that video as it is just titled "10 wanted Alola forms"
Nothing in the title has anything to suggest they would be likely or are still possibilities.
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Well, it has been confirmed that a non-Alolan Form can be transferred to Sun & Moon and stay as it is. But the thing to know is, if a Pokemon has appeared in Sun & Moon trailers, promotional material and footage in the normal form it's safe to assume that Pokemon won't get an Alolan Form.
Well, we did have the overworld model for normal Meowth in one of the very first trailers which was a few weeks prior to the Alola form announcement. I suppose it's just as easy to obtain the normal form of the Pokemon as it is the alolan, that would explain why the protag's mother owns a normal Meowth.
The protagonist and his/her mother moved to Alola from Kanto, which is likely why the mother has a non-Alolan Meowth.
Yeah, exactly. So exceptions like that do exist. The same sort of situation could be in place for say, that Pichu, or any given gen-1 Pokemon in Sun/Moon revealed material.

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I really, really, really, REALLY love Alola!Vulpix! I want one of my own. Hopefully it's not a Sun Exclusive because I'm getting Moon. I like Alola!Meowth, too. The only one that I don't like is Alola!Raichu. I guess I just don't think Raichu needed an Alola form. I mean, mice don't really have a lot of variety in terms of region. Foxes and cats do, so it makes sense for them to have a regional form. I don't know. Alola!Raichu just doesn't sit well with me for some reason.
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I really, really, really, REALLY love Alola!Vulpix! I want one of my own. Hopefully it's not a Sun Exclusive because I'm getting Moon. I like Alola!Meowth, too. The only one that I don't like is Alola!Raichu. I guess I just don't think Raichu needed an Alola form. I mean, mice don't really have a lot of variety in terms of region. Foxes and cats do, so it makes sense for them to have a regional form. I don't know. Alola!Raichu just doesn't sit well with me for some reason.
Well, trading and the GTS is a thing. Besides, they weren't even mentioned as version exclusives in their reveal trailer.

idk, I don't think Vulpix would be Sun exclusive, or else it would've been mentioned as such in the previous Version Exclusive trailer, wouldn't it?

That being said though, it is worth wondering whether or not there are going to be version-exclusive Alola forms.
That is making me interested as well, if some Alola Forms will be version-exclusive. Ninetales and Sandslash could be potential counterparts, but they weren't revealed as version-exclusive so I might end up ruling that out.
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Hikamaru

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I personally think Version-exclusive Alola forms would probably be likely, depending on how many Game Freak decides to introduce into the games. If we have a sizeable amount, then it wouldn't be too far out of left field to make some Sun-exclusive and others as Moon-exclusive.
That makes me think, is there any Alola Forms you want to see revealed in next Tuesday's trailer?
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I don't think Alolan Vulpix/Ninetails will be version exclusive, although it is possible. As I believe it was a version exclusive with Arcanine. Pretty early on, it is fairly easy to get fair trades on the GTS. I know with XY, I did a lot of trading for version exclusives. And if you use this site, you can definitely get the trades you need.

I still say we will have at least 10 more. Having 20 on the 20th Ann Game, I think is a nice little thing to do. I still really don't want to count any out, but if we were to get 10 more, I think these would be good. (Note this is taking into account most of everything we have seen with normal forms in case they are confirmed not to have one)

I am also going to go up to 15 more, as I can't choose and some lines may not be completely included similar to Marowak and Execcutor.

Spoiler:
Persian
Primeape
Tentacool
Tentacruel
Omanyte
Omastar
Kabuto
Kabutops
Seel
Dewgong
Bellsprout
Weepinbell
Victrebell
Weezing
Arbok


I would love for Manky and Primeape to get some love. They are a line that I think is sometimes forgotten and the only reason I usually remember it is because Ash had a Primeape. And even then, I forget he caught one sometimes. So I would really really love to see them get a Alolan.

blue

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I could think of a whole bunch of Pokemon beyond the first generation that I'd love to see get an Alolan form, but at this stage it doesn't seem likely. I do love the concept of these forms and there are still a couple of Kanto Pokemon that I'd like to see with one. Parasect and Porygon spring to mind.

Charlie Brown

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If we're going to get Alola forms of Pokemon from other generations, a sequel or a third game (assuming that happens) to Sun & Moon would be the perfect opportunity to do so.
If Alolan forms represent how different Pokémon adapted to different environments, the only way I can see many new Alolan forms appearing in a third game is if there are significantly different areas we can explore in a third game/sequel (which is definitely a possibility!).

But actually that begs the question, from a history point of view, I wonder why only Kanto-native Pokémon have adapted with new forms in Alola. Surely Johto-native Pokémon would too, since Kanto and Johto are geographically connected.

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If Alolan forms represent how different Pokémon adapted to different environments, the only way I can see many new Alolan forms appearing in a third game is if there are significantly different areas we can explore in a third game/sequel (which is definitely a possibility!).
This. I honestly don't think they can make any areas that are so drastically different that it warrants Pokémon who are already in the region to suddenly change. I'd personally rather get Sinnoh remakes rather than a third version or sequel to SM, so that the actual change in location can warrant some non-gen 1 pandering.

But actually that begs the question, from a history point of view, I wonder why only Kanto-native Pokémon have adapted with new forms in Alola. Surely Johto-native Pokémon would too, since Kanto and Johto are geographically connected.
One of the major problems I have with Alola forms at the moment. It's so unrealistic to think that Pokémon form Johto, which is right next to Kanto (there are some gen 2 Pokémon that originally could only be found in Kanto, at that), don't need to adapt while all these Kanto Pokémon are adapting. And they've shown some gen 4 Pokémon in Alola as well; you're telling me a Pokémon from a super-cold climate didn't need to adapt to this hot, tropical climate at all? Sure, Alola, sure.


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Charlie Brown

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This. I honestly don't think they can make any areas that are so drastically different that it warrants Pokémon who are already in the region to suddenly change. I'd personally rather get Sinnoh remakes rather than a third version or sequel to SM, so that the actual change in location can warrant some non-gen 1 pandering.
Yessss I agree. And some of the Alola forms currently I don't really see why they had a need to adapt to life in Alola - mainly Alolan Meowth, whose supplied reason (something about being more cunning iirc) doesn't really make that much sense for an adaptation to occur.

One of the major problems I have with Alola forms at the moment. It's so unrealistic to think that Pokémon form Johto, which is right next to Kanto (there are some gen 2 Pokémon that originally could only be found in Kanto, at that), don't need to adapt while all these Kanto Pokémon are adapting. And they've shown some gen 4 Pokémon in Alola as well; you're telling me a Pokémon from a super-cold climate didn't need to adapt to this hot, tropical climate at all? Sure, Alola, sure.
Yeah again I definitely agree. I feel like these might be more fanservice with the reasoning attached, rather than the other way around. Sure there's that evolution/adapting to the environment aspect to them but I feel like there's not a whole heap of thought put into which Pokémon get Alola forms and how that relates to the wider Pokémon ecosystem that we've been talking about. It's more like "cool Alola forms for adaptation/environmental reasons, let's choose these Gen I Pokémon for their marketability and because we can do cool things with them", not so much "let's choose Pokémon from very different climates that would have a need to adapt to the environment in Alola.

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Yessss I agree. And some of the Alola forms currently I don't really see why they had a need to adapt to life in Alola - mainly Alolan Meowth, whose supplied reason (something about being more cunning iirc) doesn't really make that much sense for an adaptation to occur.



Yeah again I definitely agree. I feel like these might be more fanservice with the reasoning attached, rather than the other way around. Sure there's that evolution/adapting to the environment aspect to them but I feel like there's not a whole heap of thought put into which Pokémon get Alola forms and how that relates to the wider Pokémon ecosystem that we've been talking about. It's more like "cool Alola forms for adaptation/environmental reasons, let's choose these Gen I Pokémon for their marketability and because we can do cool things with them", not so much "let's choose Pokémon from very different climates that would have a need to adapt to the environment in Alola.
Although I agree, I also beg to differ. The choice of Alola forms was probably to try whether Poke-fans would respond well to 'refreshing' or redesigning Pokemon instead of introducing new ones and to have a lesser need to introduce newer Pokemon. We're very close to the #1000 Pokemon mark and I feel people would be less interested if they did hit that mark or go beyond it. It's just a theory but I think it's plausible. :)
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I think that it's a very strong assumption to make that Alola forms are simply fanservice in the guise of a game mechanic. Even as someone who generally looks through things from a cynical lens, we don't know why Kanto Pokemon seem to be this one exception, and what makes them so different that they get Alola forms while Pokemon from other generations don't.

Could it be fanservice, especially towards those players who have picked up a 3DS for the first time because of Pokemon GO? Perhaps, I'm not outright dismissing the possibility entirely, I'm just personally being very wary myself of what this could mean for games beyond S/M. It's going to feel really really odd if S/M are going to be left as one set of games with about ~15-20 (throwing out a random number, here) Alola forms while future main game series don't really have or incorporate this kind of mechanic, which is the very reason why I'm thinking it's a possibility for S/M to have a third game or a sequel to remedy this issue before moving on to a different generation, entirely.
I think I agree with your point of Alola Forms and species-exclusive Z-Moves mainly appearing to be exclusive to 1st Gen Pokemon is fanservice as well. There was something in CoroCoro that mentioned something like "Pokemon you met in GO will get special forms in Sun & Moon".

While having a third version would be great to expand this feature, the issue is that Game Freak ditched third versions entirely due to wanting to be unpredictable. This was why we had 7th Gen announced as the next games after OR/AS instead of the Z version everyone was expecting.
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Hikamaru

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I don't think we ever had an official statement on this. All I remember is them being unpredictable, which is why we had B2/W2 come after B/W instead of a third version.
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Rivvon

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I think that it's a very strong assumption to make that Alola forms are simply fanservice in the guise of a game mechanic. Even as someone who generally looks through things from a cynical lens, we don't know why Kanto Pokemon seem to be this one exception, and what makes them so different that they get Alola forms while Pokemon from other generations don't.
But can you genuinely think of any reason as to why Kanto Pokémon would be the only Pokémon to need to adapt to Alola that ultimately wouldn't sound like just an excuse to try to cover up the fact that it's just fanservice? It really is nonsensical, from a logical point-of-view, for Kanto Pokémon to be the only ones who need to adapt when Kanto and Johto are connected. And like MarinoKadame brought up, gen 1 Pokémon are not only the ones exclusively getting Alola forms, but they're also the ones exclusively getting species-specific Z-Moves. I don't think any in-game reason given by Alolan Professor Oak can cover the fact that these forms are first and foremost gen 1 pandering fanservice.

Could it be fanservice, especially towards those players who have picked up a 3DS for the first time because of Pokemon GO? Perhaps, I'm not outright dismissing the possibility entirely, I'm just personally being very wary myself of what this could mean for games beyond S/M. It's going to feel really really odd if S/M are going to be left as one set of games with about ~15-20 (throwing out a random number, here) Alola forms while future main game series don't really have or incorporate this kind of mechanic, which is the very reason why I'm thinking it's a possibility for S/M to have a third game or a sequel to remedy this issue before moving on to a different generation, entirely.
I really don't think that many people who picked up the gen 1-only Pokémon GO are going to so easily drop a couple hundred dollars for a system nearing the end of its life just for one $40 game... Not to mention the GO craze is dying pretty fast...

As for a third version to SM, is it really that likely for the games which are meant to celebrate the series's 20th anniversary to get a third version with more content to overshadow them in a year or two? Even if the possibility is there, is that what fans would want? Especially after XY didn't get a third version despite drastically needing one, at that. The same logic many people used for why they're glad we never got "Z" would be appropriate: SM should have had all the content possible from the beginning. Them being the anniversary titles makes this even more imperative. Personally, at this point, I would be very unhappy if I were to get Sun or Moon and then a year later Pokémon Supernova is announced and it's just SM but with the Alola forms I wanted to see to begin with (read: non-gen 1).

And I mean, would it really be that odd if SM were the only games to have regional differences? Not that I think they will be--I'm still hoping for DPP remakes with "Sinnoh forms," after all. But I mean, everyone seems really certain that there won't be any more new Mega Evolutions despite only being around for 2 sets of games and the concept itself being more far-reaching than "Alola forms" (there's only one Alola, after all).


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Ehhhh. Fair point here, actually. It's one of my biggest concerns with B/W, after all--the fact that B2W2 should've been what BW was all along and such. It's a possibility I mentioned nonetheless; surely those people who would be unhappy with not seeing their Pokemon have an Alola form this generation would be fine with seeing those Pokemon get a chance at a sequel or third game? Sure, a third game would imply that Sun and Moon are unfinished games (this argument can apply for X and Y also but not interested in getting into that debate, lmao), but I'd rather have a generation that feels as complete as possible features-wise and with a variety of Pokemon, even if it takes a third game or a sequel
Hmm, B2W2 is definitely different in terms of narrative to BW so they definitely need to be separate games, but if you mean the gameplay content, then yeah, BW could definitely have benefitted from the features added in B2W2.

But in regards to SM, since gen 6 was dropped in such a haphazard fashion, I'd honestly rather just leave Alola behind and move onto bigger and better things if they fail to deliver a fair variety of new Pokémon, forms, and the like. Why stick around in Alola longer than we have to if it couldn't give us the regional variations and whatever other things we wanted the first time around? That was a lot of peoples' logic when it came to skipping over a third version to XY and I think it can easily apply here. SM is going to give us access to Zygarde Complete so I'm sure a future, non-Alola game can give us access to new forms of non-gen 1 Pokémon. ...That is, if Game Freak ever decides they're worth their time to make...

What if you wanted to transfer Alola Ninetales to [insert Gen VIII region here] via Pokebank? Would it still be Alola Ninetales? Same logic goes for any other Alola Pokemon, really. It's this kind of stuff that's a real head-scratcher, for me. It's for this reason that I don't think forms in their entirety are going to be ditched. At least with Megas you have an item that allows the Pokemon themselves to Mega Evolve, so it's not really based on region, whereas my concern is what direction Game Freak will go in subsequent generations now that they've introduced region-specific forms. Are Sinnoh forms really going to be a thing? What about [Insert Gen VIII region here]'s forms? Is that going to be a thing too? etc.
It's true that we don't know all the details about Alola forms, but I think you may be overthinking their general complexity here.

Here's an official screenshot of a Pokémon Bank account connected to Pokémon X:

Notice the Pokémon with the kind of grayed-out background? Those originate from gen 7, and can't be transferred backwards into gen 6--so, the usual transfer limitations.

Here's an official screenshot of a Pokémon Bank account connected to Pokémon Sun:

Notice how both a regular ol' Vulpix and Alolan Vulpix can be sent into Sun. I think it's safe to say that this point towards Alola forms being, well, a form difference, which means they can be traded from game to game (and transferred into newer generations), but with limitations on how they are obtained. Even if we never see regional differences outside of Alola, I'm certain we'll be able to transfer and use (and probably even breed) Alola forms in future generations.

As for "Are Sinnoh forms really going to be a thing?" well, you tell me: will we ever get new Mega Evolutions?


A Dream of Your Own: The Formulas of Unova—Black & White
Introduction | Part I: The Components of Unova

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Spoiler:
Hmm, B2W2 is definitely different in terms of narrative to BW so they definitely need to be separate games, but if you mean the gameplay content, then yeah, BW could definitely have benefitted from the features added in B2W2.

But in regards to SM, since gen 6 was dropped in such a haphazard fashion, I'd honestly rather just leave Alola behind and move onto bigger and better things if they fail to deliver a fair variety of new Pokémon, forms, and the like. Why stick around in Alola longer than we have to if it couldn't give us the regional variations and whatever other things we wanted the first time around? That was a lot of peoples' logic when it came to skipping over a third version to XY and I think it can easily apply here. SM is going to give us access to Zygarde Complete so I'm sure a future, non-Alola game can give us access to new forms of non-gen 1 Pokémon. ...That is, if Game Freak ever decides they're worth their time to make...


It's true that we don't know all the details about Alola forms, but I think you may be overthinking their general complexity here.

Here's an official screenshot of a Pokémon Bank account connected to Pokémon X:

Notice the Pokémon with the kind of grayed-out background? Those originate from gen 7, and can't be transferred backwards into gen 6--so, the usual transfer limitations.

Here's an official screenshot of a Pokémon Bank account connected to Pokémon Sun:

Notice how both a regular ol' Vulpix and Alolan Vulpix can be sent into Sun. I think it's safe to say that this point towards Alola forms being, well, a form difference, which means they can be traded from game to game (and transferred into newer generations), but with limitations on how they are obtained. Even if we never see regional differences outside of Alola, I'm certain we'll be able to transfer and use (and probably even breed) Alola forms in future generations.

As for "Are Sinnoh forms really going to be a thing?" well, you tell me: will we ever get new Mega Evolutions?
I don't think Alola forms should concern us that much. They were more of as I said, a point of desperation for TPCi/GF to limit the need for newer Pokémon. Reality-wise the game shouldn't be only introducing Alolan Pokemon exclusive to Gen I. But from a game design POV, it's meant to introduce forms and how well they will generally be received. What better way to do that but to a generation well-loved and known to many? It's not fanservice if you look at it one way but as a fan I understand it's tough, (I would know my brother still has hate for anything after Gen II)
I remember these games are directed towards all audiences, both to older players and to newer players. Pokémon Go introduced many new players into the scene and having to suddenly see 650-700+ more Pokémon (should it go that direction) would be sort of..'wow this is making me lazy plus the guys who know these games are intimidating' thus making em more hesitant to get the new games cause they may think it seems exclusive to older players but really TPCi/GF is really just trying to cater to new audiences (almost every generation)
I seriously think that most Pokémon in this region would be Gen I because it's like a new game/remake to the whole Pokémon series. I mean look at the new Animé; it's also so different from the rest of them.
Still I get where you guys are coming from. :)
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I don't think Alola forms should concern us that much. They were more of as I said, a point of desperation for TPCi/GF to limit the need for newer Pokémon. Reality-wise the game shouldn't be only introducing Alolan Pokemon exclusive to Gen I. But from a game design POV, it's meant to introduce forms and how well they will generally be received. What better way to do that but to a generation well-loved and known to many? It's not fanservice if you look at it one way but as a fan I understand it's tough, (I would know my brother still has hate for anything after Gen II)
I remember these games are directed towards all audiences, both to older players and to newer players. Pokémon Go introduced many new players into the scene and having to suddenly see 650-700+ more Pokémon (should it go that direction) would be sort of..'wow this is making me lazy plus the guys who know these games are intimidating' thus making em more hesitant to get the new games cause they may think it seems exclusive to older players but really TPCi/GF is really just trying to cater to new audiences (almost every generation)
I seriously think that most Pokémon in this region would be Gen I because it's like a new game/remake to the whole Pokémon series. I mean look at the new Animé; it's also so different from the rest of them.
Still I get where you guys are coming from. :)
If they were that "desperate" to limit the number of new Pokémon, why didn't they just make more new Megas instead? And I'd honestly argue that the idea of using gen 1-only Alola forms to "test the waters," so to say, of how well-received such form changes are, is a bad idea. Genwunners are the most stubborn, unreasonable, and nostalgia-biased in their opinions. They would surely look upon these forms and think they're somehow "ruining" the original Pokémon. At least if they were of newer Pokémon, which the genwunners wouldn't have cared for in the first place, there would likely be a more realistic (and reasonable) response as to whether they were liked or not. With that in mind, there's no way to get around the fact that limiting Alolan forms to gen 1 Pokémon is just fanservice.

As one of many who is sick of the gen 1 pandering that's been occurring not just during the year in which the entire series should be celebrated, but also three years ago with XY, I wouldn't believe any reason given for why the Alola forms are only of gen 1 Pokémon as a good enough excuse to overlook that it's a major disappointment. Not only can it not reasonably be explained in-game, but it also destroys a lot of creative opportunities (I can imagine a popsicle-like Alolan Vanillite but I cannot fathom why Vanillite would need to change at all in Sinnoh) just for the sake of keeping the spotlight on gen 1 instead of giving opportunities to Pokémon across all generations.


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I don't think the are intentionally reducing the number. Kalos was a test. So they made fewer pokemon, plus the guy designing them had an artist block. Which is hard to overcome.

We know there will at least be 20 more pokemon. That is probably evolutions alone. And having Alolan Forms would come more to confusing people returning people than new pokemon. This is not at all like a remake. They only reason they are doing this is because it is the 20th Ann.

As for Sinnoh Forms, I extremely very seriously doubt that. Even with remakes, I don't understand why they would have Sinnoh Forms. Nothing has changed in Sinnoh, so it would make no since for them to adapt when they are already adapted. The Regional Variants may only be for new Regions in the future.

They aren't focused on getting people back. Game wise, they don't need them. They need to focus on the new players and the current ones. As the ones who are still playing the games before Go, are probably the more loyal fanbase and will likely continue to stick with the games in the future. Besides, Go has already increased sells for the 3DS and Pokemon games by a lot since Go came out.

They have to stop with focusing on Generation 1. The whole series should be celebrated. And I know a large amount of people are getting sick of all the Gen 1 stuff.

Hikamaru

Age 30
Female
Australia
Seen January 24th, 2019
Posted September 4th, 2018
50,214 posts
12.2 Years
Personally I hope to see a lot more Gen 1 Alolan forms.
I think we'll be seeing nothing but 1st Gen as far as Alola Form candidates go. It's likely a safe bet at this point that it's 1st Gen Pokemon only.
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