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Nah

Age 27
Female
Seen 1 Hour Ago
Posted 2 Hours Ago
This was a really well-written article and really hits on all the good and bad of X/Y's story. :)
Normally I....kinda have a hard time reading really long posts, but this was one of those times I did bother to read the whole thing.

One small thing that can be said with the issue of the player character and voice/choice is that another alternative (and the better one in my opinion) would be to have more dialog options and more responses from the other characters, similar to like Bethesda games or Mass Effect, where you tend to get multiple dialog options throughout entire conversations and the NPCs you're talking to will react differently according to what you choose (and this is on top of the varying actions players may take throughout the game too). That would not only help with the voice/choice issue, but also make the player character a better self-insert and even possibly give the other primary characters more growth too.

One other thing I can think of is why does the friend group seems to be so obsessed with the player character, someone they just met? Why do they all compare themselves to you, especially in regards to Pokemon battles when that's not the goal for 3 of the 4? In my 2 playthroughs of the game I always felt like I was crushing their souls, but through no fault of my own. This is a detail that could've been expanded upon in the story too.

I was not aware till now though that in X Lysandre threatens to give the player and co. immortality after his final loss. I only have Y and just assumed it was the same in both, that he threatens to kill them at that point with the weapon as one last desperate attempt to have his genocidal plan succeed.

It's so sad that the main story of X/Y turned out the way it did, especially considering the Looker missions and Gen 5.....
paired to a bottle of booze

Rivvon

Age 26
Female
USA
Seen 3 Days Ago
Posted 1 Week Ago
2,637 posts
12.6 Years
This was a really well-written article and really hits on all the good and bad of X/Y's story. :)
Normally I....kinda have a hard time reading really long posts, but this was one of those times I did bother to read the whole thing.
Thank you! It really means a lot.

One small thing that can be said with the issue of the player character and voice/choice is that another alternative (and the better one in my opinion) would be to have more dialog options and more responses from the other characters, similar to like Bethesda games or Mass Effect, where you tend to get multiple dialog options throughout entire conversations and the NPCs you're talking to will react differently according to what you choose (and this is on top of the varying actions players may take throughout the game too). That would not only help with the voice/choice issue, but also make the player character a better self-insert and even possibly give the other primary characters more growth too.
More options that spanned across a sizable number of emotional responses would have certainly alleviated some of the issues posed with the current system of dialog response. But at the same time, I can see why Game Freak may want to shy away from that, since Pokémon games are predominantly designed for a single playthrough and players would miss the subtleties of each response--in which case, no options at all would be the best option to take. But I do agree that, for the way Pokémon portrays their protagonists, an "all or nothing" approach is best when it comes to handling dialog options.

One other thing I can think of is why does the friend group seems to be so obsessed with the player character, someone they just met? Why do they all compare themselves to you, especially in regards to Pokemon battles when that's not the goal for 3 of the 4? In my 2 playthroughs of the game I always felt like I was crushing their souls, but through no fault of my own. This is a detail that could've been expanded upon in the story too.
I agree with this as well, and I touched upon it lightly, especially in regards to Shauna: why are her memories with the player so important, rather than with her family or her other friends? It just serves to make her (and, similarly, the other friend characters) feel more intrusive and forced rather than real friends.

It's so sad that the main story of X/Y turned out the way it did, especially considering the Looker missions and Gen 5.....
XY has really solid underlying themes and great concepts for characters that sadly weren't executed to the best of their ability, and it definitely does bring a lot of disappointment when seeing just how far they could have been taken, when compared to not just gen 5 but their own Looker Episodes.

Female
Seen August 7th, 2018
Posted July 23rd, 2017
69 posts
6.2 Years
As I read through the article, I'm relieved I'm not the only one who thinks Kalos has a false beauty. It looks beautiful on the outside, but it's actually dirty and brutal on the inside which caused me become scared from it and... caused me to hate this region from this games.

About the bond theme... I don't know if I understand the article, but it summarized most of the problems I suffered through my two X plays (one normal play and one nuzlocke). About the obsession of our "friends" wanting to show us everything or comparing themselves to us despite having their own distinct goals... It's annoying. Really, I want to bond with them in the beginning since as the player character was supposed to be new in Kalos, but they show up too often for smalltalk which reaches a point to become annoying. Which brings to my main problem, which the article brought up: the illusion of choices.

You can individualize the character's looks and how you interpret the character and intention is up to you. The player character is supposed to be our game avatar - a self-insert. And my intention to come to Kalos was catching new Pokémon (in this way I have a similar goal like Trevor), challenging the League and learning about the region's legends and lore. I want to befriend the region, but... it seems it's own twisted head and manipulates our player like it is a cosmic plaything. It treats you as a Chosen One for learning Mega Evolution (with the message: "To become stronger, you have to sacrifice everything what's dear to you.") while you have to earn style in Lumiose City in the hard way. So... It doesn't agree with your intentions and character unless it's the same (or similar), which... infuriates me. I have to think about the Tower of Mastery when we are given the choice who will master Mega Evolution and it end between us and the rival. And... it caused a chain reaction which the rival challenges us frequently and becomes more frustrated while trying being our friend. I was infuriated by the frequency, especially if I'm about to challenge a gym. But he/she helped us in the Flare Crisis and in Victory Road... I felt sorry and wanted to apologize him/her for not realizing it before. I wished I could gave the Mega Ring to the rival back when we were at the Tower of Mastery... Only to see he/she got another Mega Ring in postgame while in the plot it's said there's only one Mega Ring. I snapped out because I felt betrayed and that's unforgivable for me!

The reason? I felt my team back then aren't ready yet (my Kanto starter haven't evolved into their final form yet to use it) and I wanted to focus on my League Quest, catching new Pokémon and learning more about the legends. The game however doesn't allow me to make this choice. And there's another stinger: After the 7th badge I wanted to go to Snowbelle City for the last badge and buying new clothes (if they would suit me and I found this collection good), but no, the game forces me to stop Team Flare before I can go to Snowbelle City! For a petty reason of roadblocking which should be no big problem!? This forcing was one of the reasons I hate Super Mystery Dungeon (I think it's much more worse than XY, since SMD has a partner character which the story likes to surround around despite there are restrictions - which caused me not to buy the game). Which summarizes the problem: it doesn't give you a choice actually when the reveal comes it was a illusion all along!

Which brings me to Lysandre. Somehow I sympathize with him since I agree somehow behind this beautiful world lies a brutal and cruel world which wants to break you along with the bonds. But like Prof. Platan said, even his thoughts may be right, his actions may be not right and how damn right he was when Lysandre announced a genocide. And yet he regrets it. I interpreted he tried to hope it shouldn't go like this, but he felt he has no other choice but to make a genocide with the Ultimate Weapon (again it brings to the "No Choice" problem, since AZ had wished it shouldn't go like this - in this case Floette taking part in the war and dying, which triggered a chain reaction which leads to destruction and realization what he had done). Just why? He said the world has become impure due humanity fighting each other for limited resources (sadly the Pokémon has to suffer from these fights) - and he wished it shouldn't go like this. Just like Lysandre sadly said: "But conflicting egos drive this world - things doesn't always go the way you want."

It leads to my conclusion I feel there's a painful theme beneath the curtains in Kalos: You can't choose the way how you want. I understand it while I believe we can carve our way despite circumstances - it just needs time (which brings me to another point surrounding the game development of XY later) and a strong will. But the game wants you to believe you have no choice and if you realize the afterwards it's already too late to change. You are lured into a beautiful illusion only to discover it's not. You can hope to change, but circumstances (like being a Cosmic Plaything of sorts) prevents you to a point you have no choice but to act in blind rage. But... when's done, you realized our actions caused even more destruction and... destroying yourself in spirit. Your dream is destroyed due a illusion, because we fell into it!

The bond between trainer and Pokémon causing Mega Evolution? WRONG! The bond is necessary to tame Mega Evolution, otherwise the Mega Evolved Pokémon would go berserk! Some XY episodes showed mastering Mega Evolution is not a easy task since Korrina's Lucario tended to become berserk until she mastered it. I'm speculating myself the Mega Stones are crystallized souls of Pokémon who died in the Kalos war and want to be free from this "prison". When a Pokémon Mega Evolves, the corresponded soul tries to take over no matter that - unaware they slept many centuries as if they time traveled into a future which they don't recognize. The other soul would try to restrain it and it would cause to become berserk, because there's a fight on the inside. The bond between trainer and Pokémon is necessary to tame the old soul and in turn it grants the evolved Pokémon it's spirit power - both souls become synched (I don't mean Ash-Greninja, there's more synching than Mega Evolution). Maybe that's why Prof. Platan failed the challenge in the Tower of Mastery and required us to research it (and his plan came too well, but it needed more time than thought, because we weren't told about consequences). But why we aren't told? I think it has to do with a fear the truth will come into light, so this technique is hidden in Kalos very well. In Hoenn however it's not that paranoid since the Elite Four can utilize Mega Evolution as well. And in Alola there are veteran trainers in the battle facilities who had mastered Mega Evolution as well Z-Moves.

Or there's a fear this power will causing history to repeat - namely the Ultimate Weapon, but in a smaller scale. Or if this power can fall into wrong hands. But I'm saying myself the truth will come out one way or another - we can only delay it.

Lucario being the first Pokémon who Mega Evolved? I can only accept it if it's a regional discovery. The first Pokémon who Mega Evolved was Rayquaza whose discovery must be at least 1.000 years ago (I dunno which years exactly, but I thought it was 2.000 years ago since I thought the first meteor came 3.000 years ago and 1.000 years later it was used as a channel to convert humanity's prayer into power for Rayquaza). The discovery in Kalos was around 200 years ago (dunno if it's right). And unlike the others Rayquaza Mega Evolves differently, in a "natural" way since it eats meteorites and converts it into power.

Now to my point about the game development. According a interview the game engine for the 3DS had to be made from scratch and every Pokémon must be newly drawn AND animated. I can image it has eaten so much time there's not enough time to polish the story and characters to be fleshed out (excluding the Looker episodes, which are great), because the game engine had to be recreated and must be stabilized. I'm only thinking about DP, where battles, saving and surfing are painfully slow and had to be fixed with Platinum - maybe the time for the 3DS engine was to prevent another DP. But... it lead to another disaster in a different way - namely there was not enough time to polish the story before the deadline and there's no choice but to leave it in a "incomplete" state in a writings perspective. So in a way the "No choice" problem in the game seeped from the developed due desperation. But at least they tried.

...This post has become long... But despite Kalos was left in it's incomplete state I'm praying it can be fixed. Or... I dunno if the story felt hollow in purpose (as well the Mohn problem in SM, since the Skull/Aether Conflict surrounding Lillie had become personal for me gradually (mostly because Team Skull took the opportunity to act while I did the Ghost Trial and I felt upset being tricked out while Acerola was shocked. And I was tricked again with the lure to Po Town while Lillie was kidnapped. And I took Gladion's warning seriously) and I wanna help her, Gladion and Lusamine to reunite them with Mohn, but... want he? He may have lost his memory and doesn't complain). We just don't know...

Desert Stream~

4 million years

Female
Seen August 8th, 2019
Posted June 24th, 2019
wooooow that was long. I haven't read everything yet, but I skimmed it and I agree with most of the points in the article (although I like some features a bit better or worse then the article makes them out to be)

Overall, it was really well written, and included some stuff I would never have thought of. Good job!
https://discord.gg/nqfg9UE Please join I need members ;_;

Rivvon

Age 26
Female
USA
Seen 3 Days Ago
Posted 1 Week Ago
2,637 posts
12.6 Years
You can individualize the character's looks and how you interpret the character and intention is up to you. The player character is supposed to be our game avatar - a self-insert. And my intention to come to Kalos was catching new Pokémon (in this way I have a similar goal like Trevor), challenging the League and learning about the region's legends and lore. I want to befriend the region, but... it seems it's own twisted head and manipulates our player like it is a cosmic plaything. It treats you as a Chosen One for learning Mega Evolution (with the message: "To become stronger, you have to sacrifice everything what's dear to you.") while you have to earn style in Lumiose City in the hard way. So... It doesn't agree with your intentions and character unless it's the same (or similar), which... infuriates me.
This is a very interesting point, and I can understand why that would be frustrating to you in your playthrough. Although there generally has to be some semblance of linearity in order to keep the story progressing, it could definitely be an interesting approach to have a Pokémon game that allows for more individualized exploration of the region. Although, it may come at the expense of a stronger storyline, depending on how that's handled.

But I do agree that it's kind of silly, in the grand scheme of things, for Mega Evolution to essentially be handed to the player on a silver platter, but it's actually quite a challenge to become "stylish enough" to enter the Lumiose Boutique. Lysandre says I'm the "Chosen One!" I can achieve Mega Evolution! Why can't you let me buy some clothes?

I wished I could gave the Mega Ring to the rival back when we were at the Tower of Mastery... Only to see he/she got another Mega Ring in postgame while in the plot it's said there's only one Mega Ring.
To be honest, I don't remember exactly what was said to establish why the rival gets their own Mega Ring, but it does undermine the way Lysandre tried to use the Mega Ring as an example of "limited resources." "So, tell me. The Mega Ring, did you share it? ... When there is only one of something, it can't be shared. When something can't be shared, it will be fought over." But that's the only example of limited resources in the game and in the post-game your rival ends up with their own. Not to mention that Diantha has a Key Stone inlaid into her necklace before the credits roll.

The bond between trainer and Pokémon causing Mega Evolution? WRONG! The bond is necessary to tame Mega Evolution, otherwise the Mega Evolved Pokémon would go berserk! Some XY episodes showed mastering Mega Evolution is not a easy task since Korrina's Lucario tended to become berserk until she mastered it.
I have heard that the anime takes a slightly different approach to the explanation of Mega Evolution, but in my mind, although I can appreciate that the series has branched into various forms of media, whatever is in the anime is in the anime, and what's in the game is what's in the game. Aside from maybe, maybe the implication that Lysandre forced Gyarados to Mega Evolve (which is certainly not clear in its own right), there has never been a case, in the games, of anyone being able to achieve Mega Evolution without strong bonds. Perhaps the lore of Mega Evolution could have been more interesting had they included what the anime did, but ultimately the anime's handling of the lore is separate from the games'.

Now to my point about the game development. According a interview the game engine for the 3DS had to be made from scratch and every Pokémon must be newly drawn AND animated. I can image it has eaten so much time there's not enough time to polish the story and characters to be fleshed out (excluding the Looker episodes, which are great), because the game engine had to be recreated and must be stabilized.
While I can understand this, at the same time I don't think it's the absolute best justification. Generally (not always, but generally) the script writers are separate from the programmers, modelers, etc. And the script writers showed they can write a good script, even if it doesn't have a lot of fancy visual bells and whistles, through the "Looker Episodes." Even if, say, the main storyline was lacking a bit visually, or if you wanted to make an argument about level design or any other area, the writing and execution of the characters is still weak. Unless the writers also work on other fields (which, truth be told, I'm not sure of myself), their output doesn't have any relation to the other groups and what they had to produce. The only thing that could potentially affect them is if there was a time issue.

Ho-Oh

used Sacred Fire!

Age 27
Female
Seen August 22nd, 2019
Posted July 26th, 2019
...this is awesome. I had no clue Kalos had a post game lmao. I just hung out at the Friend Safari forever...

...then again that time was an odd time in my life so it makes sense that I didn't know about it. I must complete that story arc! ...soon.

But awesome writeup, a lot of the stuff I didn't have any clue about which is super cool :)

Rivvon

Age 26
Female
USA
Seen 3 Days Ago
Posted 1 Week Ago
2,637 posts
12.6 Years
...this is awesome. I had no clue Kalos had a post game lmao. I just hung out at the Friend Safari forever...

...then again that time was an odd time in my life so it makes sense that I didn't know about it. I must complete that story arc! ...soon.

But awesome writeup, a lot of the stuff I didn't have any clue about which is super cool :)
Thank you! You should absolutely play the Looker Episodes when you get the chance! They're quite phenomenal and showcase very strong storytelling in a small amount of time.

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