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  #1    
Old January 21st, 2004 (1:31 PM).
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Iveechan Iveechan is offline
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    Lately I have noticed several members leaving... I myself left at one time, and I'm considering doing it again (well, I came back for a stupid reason). A common reason I have noticed is "I just don't feel wanted here". This may seem superficial to some, but some people do feel an emotional connection to forums. Even though we can't see one another, we know that we are conversing with other people, and this gives us a chance to "socialize" when we ourselves are dis-satisfied in real life with our social lives. Not to mention everybody here has a common interest.

    Can't say that this is the absolute blame, but I feel that part of the problem may be the MOTM, pair up, and other such threads. You can b*tch at me all you want saying how these are fun and crap, but I think that some members get the feeling of being excluded. So yeah, there's jealousies. So they move on and never look back. Once again, this may not be the cause of members leaving, that's why this is a discussion.

    Obviously, we can't please everyone, but there should be an effort made to make the community more of a nice visiting experience and less of a "status" type place. It's going to take a lot more than banning political/sex topics and making clubs. So discuss; is there a problem, or it it all in their heads?
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      #2    
    Old January 21st, 2004 (1:45 PM).
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    Arwen Arwen is offline
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      Well overall... PC have the less people leaving. PE2K has way too much people leaving and they aren't strict on Polical or sexual topics, I belive...

      But, PC is just not mature enough for these topics. Even if we banned Polical or Sexual Topics... there will still be flaming..

      We are banning them because the staff is conserned about it because excessive flaming and etc.
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        #3    
      Old January 21st, 2004 (2:48 PM).
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      Kairyu Kairyu is offline
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        So are political/sex topics completely banned here at PC? Or just heavily restricted?

        Anyway, I'm really trying at not being the thorn in your side mods/admins. But is it not what a forum is all about? Discussing, arguing about everything and anything you want, you know a public meeting place. I won't say it is appropriate to talk about that here at PC, Arwen said already most of the members are not mature enough to discuss such things. I mean we got enough topics floating around here anyway.

        About the members leaving, you are right about one thing Iveechan. This is just my opinion buuuut with all the clubs, MOTM, and romance games there is alot of competition of attention around PC. Personally, I think its almost worse than having political flame-wars. Some members would take it so seriously that they would go as far as making, "I'm gonna leave PC" threads becuase of said lack of popularity. Yes it is fun to partcipate and even read through these kind of topics but it all comes with a price. It is a problem, but not a big one but I'm sure you all know that.
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          #4    
        Old January 21st, 2004 (3:23 PM). Edited January 21st, 2004 by Frostweaver.
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        Frostweaver Frostweaver is offline
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          sexual, political and religious topic are (very unfortunately) completely banned... it wasn't in the past but it's banned now due to the fact that members cannot handle the topic maturely without insulting another person's opinion. Look, if a simple "what do you like and what you don't like" topic got into a flame war, I see that it's impossible for PC to handle even more controversial topic such as homsexual vs heterosexual, creation vs evolution and etc. The ban on these topic must stand.

          MOTM do play a part in making members leave. They never feel wanted or unnoticed because "i got so little votes". However the fact that someone can get so stressed out over a few votes is rather awkward to me, but this possibility is inevitable. My stand on MOTM is neutral. I remember 22sa saying that MOTM should take out all the "favorite ______" categories, as looking at those results you may get the other perspective of "all the other people suck except for these:". So... MOTM is certainly something to debate about. Perhaps we should divide MOTM possible participants by time they joined and etc... voting for "favorite male member" for example, gives older member such a great advantage compare to new members. So perhaps by dividing MOTM into two subgroups of "Old PC members" and "New PC members" (these are just for examples) will help the situation out a bit.

          EDIT: Though the above sounds so negative for MOTM... keep your mind on this too. In the real world we have marks from school. Some people will be depressed because his/her marks are lower than another person, or are relatively low compare to others. This is an exact parallel of MOTM. Just because what you achieved doesn't show up very pretty in relative comparison to others, that doesnt mean you're worthless and not welcomed by PC, just like how your marks reflect on nothing for your intelligence or smarts. But if some members cannot handle this fact, I wonder how they will survive in the real life in the future. If they cannot even handle a little fun online poll that has absolutely no effect on your life unlike MOTM's real life parallel called "school marks", well we can't do anything about it. And life is never smooth sailing. We cannot possibly bend everything to your favor. Sometimes you have to be the one to change, not everything else around you changing for you. Blunt and harsh, but the absolute truth.

          Getting upset over pairup thread is impossible for me to comprehend. It is a very easy thing to do for new members to participate in (simply by signing up and play matching game). Not to mention, in fact most of the recent pairups are all new members. Lately pairup thread didn't do much pairing due to a shortage of female members (until very recently) so that's why not much pairing is done. But if new members are interpreting this fact of female member shortage as "no one likes me" then we can't really do much about this.

          The biggest problem in PC in terms of socializing is the following
          a) PC social square = OC and OC alone
          b) Some members are here for so long that they pretty much form their own little "groups" with other members who joined for just about as equally as long as them, excluding the newer members
          c) new member's terrible fright of posting in the same forum with others who have 2000 more posts as them

          Let's solve the problems bit by bit...
          a) nothing you can do much about this one, but inviting people who are hiding in their own little forum to join OC and chat along with us. This is rather an unimportant issue though if we can get b and c out of the way. Certainly members and moderators alike should try to invite members to join and chat in OC to feel "more welcomed"

          b) biggest problem of all I'll say... some of us know each other for such a long time that of course we'll be really close to one another... sometimes we just use some of the threads as a private chat topic pretty much... those massive amount of role playings within a few of us is one of the many examples of how we grow so close to each other that we're eliminating the slightest chance for newer members to come along and join the topic with us... hopefully there will be lesser posts in the future taht are only addressing to a few particular member, and have more "discussion-like" topics where everyone can pitch in...

          c) one easy solution if we're not afraid to do it: remove post counts
          this way new members won't have the fear of talking to "oh those veterans who know everything". they have no way to tell unless checking at profile (which a lot of us do not do), so they'll drop their own barrier and try to talk with us. It's like member-moderator talk... sometimes members are afraid to express themselves freely because of this "higher authority" aura from members. If we can remove post counts, I'm sure some of the new members will try to be more open towards other members with "high post counts" or "veteran who may possibly be too good for me this unknown new member"
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            #5    
          Old January 21st, 2004 (6:37 PM).
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          Arwen Arwen is offline
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            Heres your answers...

            A) You are just being a coward and not participating in events
            B) You are a heavy poster
            C) you don't like any of the events at PC...

            Well, to get it straight, PC is the #1, kindest, interity (sp?) and respectful forum. Why post Sexual topics and Policial topics that will spark members and start flaming... please don't get down to pe2k forums level... ..

            We want everyone to have the best time here, so don't ruin it...

            BTW: We are still deciding on banning polical and sexual (oriented or anything about homosexuality) from PC.
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              #6    
            Old January 21st, 2004 (6:51 PM).
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            Frostweaver Frostweaver is offline
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              You're really tempting me...


              A) You are just being a coward and not participating in events
              -first of all, it won't hurt to just inform the new members about Other Chat
              -it's not about being a coward... very sure everyone feels a bit frighten to be venturing into "veteran zone" with everyone having 500+ post while you're just 0 post?
              -new members may feel that they don't have enough experience with PC or know anyone well enough to participate in these events. for example, MOTM how the heck do they know who to vote for if they don't know anyone

              B) You are a heavy poster
              -is "heavy poster" suppose to mean anything?
              -once again, I will strongly ask the moderators to consider removing post counts from all members... if post numbers mean anything at all... that will be just as ugly as the real world where money means so much.
              -posting more is important, but not because of post count... posting more lets other PC members a chance to know you better

              C) you don't like any of the events at PC...
              -I cannot possibly imagine a statement like this coming from a modeartor. As a moderator yourself, you should know better than to accuse other members because of their likings. Yes this is very statement is a flame itself but I feel that it's necessary to carry this point out. This is unacceptable for a moderator

              Why post Sexual topics and Policial topics that will spark members and start flaming...
              -handle with care along with respect, and these topics are just fine
              -why do they spark flaming? because of the way of thinking in members. the topic itself is not to be blamed
              -eventually people will have to face these issues, be it real life or PC. I see nothing wrong with discussing them online
              -just because they're controversial and easily flammable, that doesn't mean we just avoid them. Instead of running away, we should actually face this problem and learn not to flame; to learn to accept other people's opinions and to

              please don't get down to pe2k forums level... ..
              -whatever personal opinions you have for pe2k, I do not care. But please have respect for other forums as well. Any PC member should have respect for other people's opinions, likings regardless of ranks. Everyone should hold respect for everything else, inlcuding another forum
              -this grudge for pe2k has lasted way too long in PC. It's fine if you dislike this forum, but please do not insult them here. Save the complaints for Instant Messenger or PM talk
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                #7    
              Old January 21st, 2004 (6:59 PM).
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              John Denver John Denver is offline
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                The S-Mods and Admins have said a lot that we don't ban Sexual and Political topics just because they're sexual or political, they're closed because in those topics there is ALWAYS flaming of some kind...

                Even if the most mature people post mature posts in mature topics, some idiot will come in and flaunt his opinion and call everyone else morons for not believing what he believes in. Those topics are closed because that kind of action is inevitable...

                As far as MOTM's go, the new members need to realize something. The members that get hundreds votes were once new members once, in the same situation as them. Even insanely popular members like Arcanine, Kairi, SA, and Kwesi were once new members....well....maybe not Kwesi

                I don't know how many times I've said this, but I'll say it again

                baby steps...baby steps...

                BOO ya!
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                  #8    
                Old January 21st, 2004 (7:08 PM).
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                Timbjerr Timbjerr is offline
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                I remember when I was a new member...I was pretty much overlooked for like five months before I became really prominant as a high-poster (I thank people like 22sa and Arcanine for making as many posts as they did around that time...it gave me endless nights of posting and friend-making...)

                I'm sure people that are leaving are Frosty's choice number c...they are probably too timid to post regularly with people with 500+ posts. The way I see it, the only way to overcome that is to introduce yourself dynamically and post in every topic you can put a word into...

                or...(just to get the chance to attract more members to my moderation forum) they can hang out in the Pokmon Trivia and games Forum!

                XDDD
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                  #9    
                Old January 21st, 2004 (7:10 PM).
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                John Denver John Denver is offline
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                  and be funny...people love funny people...

                  Spam is bad..shouldn't do it...

                  Make people remember your posts...so they'll reply to YOU!

                  BOO yeah...
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                    #10    
                  Old January 21st, 2004 (7:18 PM).
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                  Arwen Arwen is offline
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                    LOL.. I'm semi popular... not fully crazy popular as Kairi, Andy... and Kwesi.
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                      #11    
                    Old January 21st, 2004 (7:18 PM).
                    Alakazam Alakazam is offline
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                      Quote:
                      Originally Posted by tmbjr
                      I remember when I was a new member...I was pretty much overlooked for like five months before I became really prominant as a high-poster (I thank people like 22sa and Arcanine for making as many posts as they did around that time...it gave me endless nights of posting and friend-making...)

                      I'm sure people that are leaving are Frosty's choice number c...they are probably too timid to post regularly with people with 500+ posts. The way I see it, the only way to overcome that is to introduce yourself dynamically and post in every topic you can put a word into...

                      or...(just to get the chance to attract more members to my moderation forum) they can hang out in the Pokmon Trivia and games Forum!

                      XDDD
                      What are you, Brock? You fall in love with any pretty girl? As Mr. Feeny would say, grow up, man! You aren't going to get a girl by sitting in front of your computer monitor, so go out and explore the world! You'll thank me later.
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                        #12    
                      Old January 21st, 2004 (7:21 PM).
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                      Iveechan Iveechan is offline
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                        ...

                        Why the heck do you keep talking about the banned topics? That's so not the point, it was just a small mention. I've been here longer than Arcanine and Kairi, and I never parade around calling myself a vet or anything. And it's not just new people who are leaving, it's people who have been here longer than me. So we need new theories other than "they are timid of high posters".
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                          #13    
                        Old January 21st, 2004 (7:23 PM).
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                        John Denver John Denver is offline
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                          heh..they don't find PC interesting anymor?

                          they're being hassled by poke-hating friends?

                          many things could be because of it...

                          BOO ya!
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                            #14    
                          Old January 22nd, 2004 (5:56 AM).
                          Alakazam Alakazam is offline
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                            Quote:
                            Originally Posted by Iveechan
                            ...

                            Why the heck do you keep talking about the banned topics? That's so not the point, it was just a small mention. I've been here longer than Arcanine and Kairi, and I never parade around calling myself a vet or anything. And it's not just new people who are leaving, it's people who have been here longer than me. So we need new theories other than "they are timid of high posters".
                            Why the heck? WHY THE HECK!? How about why the $&%#@? Geez, from the email you sent me you seem like one angry chick. We here at PC just want everyone to have a good time, so if there's anything I can do to help, please let me know.
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                              #15    
                            Old January 22nd, 2004 (1:46 PM).
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                            baby*j baby*j is offline
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                              The only reason I am thinking of leaving is because this board allows
                              the bashing of homosexuals.

                              I think it's pretty stupid (and pathetic) if you leave because "you're
                              not a part of the group" or similar reasons. I really couldn't care less
                              that I am not "popular" or in the social clubs here because in my non-
                              computer life, I am.

                              I mean, I was a moderator on another board and I had alot of posts, but
                              before all of that I was NEW. I wasn't scared or intimidated by the moderators
                              or the administrators ... why should I (or anyone for that matter) be??

                              So most of the reasons posted for people leaving don't account for everybody.
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                                #16    
                              Old January 22nd, 2004 (2:01 PM).
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                              Frostweaver Frostweaver is offline
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                                Quote:
                                Originally Posted by baby*j
                                The only reason I am thinking of leaving is because this board allows
                                the bashing of homosexuals.

                                So most of the reasons posted for people leaving don't account for everybody.
                                First of all, just because someone did it that doesn't mean the board supports that. Occassionally there's always someone who breaks the rules =/

                                Secondly, that wasn't bashing but purely just stating what that member likes or dislikes. It's just his or her personal opinion or beliefs. However it will be bashing if any member puts his or her beliefs/opinions into actions (aka discriminations). Stating what you think is fine, but acting in a certain way towards others due to your belief is not supported by the board.
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                                Old January 22nd, 2004 (2:20 PM).
                                Alakazam Alakazam is offline
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                                  Quote:
                                  Originally Posted by frostweaver
                                  First of all, just because someone did it that doesn't mean the board supports that. Occassionally there's always someone who breaks the rules =/

                                  Secondly, that wasn't bashing but purely just stating what that member likes or dislikes. It's just his or her personal opinion or beliefs. However it will be bashing if any member puts his or her beliefs/opinions into actions (aka discriminations). Stating what you think is fine, but acting in a certain way towards others due to your belief is not supported by the board.
                                  As an administrator at PC, I will step forward right now and say that gay bashing will not be tolerated. Frostweaver, how would you feel if someone said they hated all black or chinese people and you were one? I think you would feel angry and it would start a big argument. Therefore people, please leave out comments that refer to race or if they are gay or not. If you want to say something bad about gay people, then go somewhere else, but PC will not support that and you will be banned if you continue to do so. That goes for anyone, "you" being any person who breaks the rules. Thank you and please listen to me, this is only to make sure that no minority is treated unjust and everything is equal. This is a Pokemon board anyway, so keep your hurtful comments to yourself everyone. Thank you.
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                                    #18    
                                  Old January 22nd, 2004 (2:36 PM).
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                                  Frostweaver Frostweaver is offline
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                                    lol. Alakazam next time check what or who i'm alluding to first before you shoot the gun. Other people may not be so forgiving. lol

                                    Guess this is another problem right there. Before moderators/any other staff members give warnings, perhaps a bit more research can be done first about the real situation

                                    Now back to the "gay bashing" topic... guess Alakazam didn't get what I mean. I'll try to explain this better...

                                    Example of "Belief:"
                                    -I dislike Chinese people... but i'll be quiet about it. If I do see one, I'll just try my best to cope with living with them.

                                    Example of "discrimination"
                                    -*sees a chinese person* AAhhh! Get lost you rotten Chinese people!

                                    Hope that example clear things up. And no I do not discriminate chinese people or else i must have suicided already. My belief goes against homosexual people but I try my very best not to discriminate them.
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                                      #19    
                                    Old January 22nd, 2004 (4:10 PM).
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                                    ^^NICK^^ v.2.0 ^^NICK^^ v.2.0 is offline
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                                      I don't think we should do MOTM, Romance threads, ect... It hurts people's feelings. Instead we should take time to get to know eachother.
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                                        #20    
                                      Old January 22nd, 2004 (4:16 PM). Edited January 22nd, 2004 by Arwen.
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                                      Arwen Arwen is offline
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                                        No, Getting to know people is at introductions and DCC...

                                        If we took them away, would PC change to become a place of boredom? Most definally... becuase those topics what MADE PC special...

                                        :-/

                                        We already passed the stage of knowing each other already.
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                                          #21    
                                        Old January 23rd, 2004 (3:11 PM).
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                                        Hanatori Hanatori is offline
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                                          >sexual, political and religious topic are (very unfortunately) completely banned...

                                          Aww... that means I won't get to see topics making fun of... never mind.

                                          Meh. I myself have no problem with stuff like the PC crushes, pairing up, and stuff like that, but I DO think that the MOTM is utter crap. It's just a popularity contest, which is just stupid, in my opinion. "Most Valuable Member?" I could go further with this, but I'm not one to cause war. =\

                                          Seeing some of the members leave is rather depressing, though. ._.; It reminds me of Fizzy Bubbles.
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                                            #22    
                                          Old January 23rd, 2004 (3:40 PM).
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                                          Frostweaver Frostweaver is offline
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                                            Quote:
                                            Originally Posted by Arwen
                                            No, Getting to know people is at introductions and DCC...

                                            If we took them away, would PC change to become a place of boredom? Most definally... becuase those topics what MADE PC special...

                                            :-/

                                            We already passed the stage of knowing each other already.
                                            *Thinks about Alyssa: Ever heard of new members...?*

                                            *Has a lot of thought in his mind:

                                            Yeah I never voted for "most valuable member" that's like indirectly saying "everyone else who are not valualbe are:"... MOTM is still neutral to me. However if we're ending MOTM, I hope that we can still do the February MOTM as February is the 2nd anniversary for MOTM, so maybe a nice way to end the MOTM saga.

                                            we analyzed enough about new members already... let's talk "old" members (old as in people from old pc and beyond). It's evidential that many old members left before us, such as gr8person62. I really like him despite of the fact that he can be very brutally truthful (even if he did call me a piece of useless trash once ; ), and great members like him are leaving which is obvious that there's some problem in PC. I read through most of OC reference and you can certainly tell that PC atmosphere and posting tone changed a lot.

                                            Old PC: every topic allows all members to participate
                                            New PC: topics are enclosed between a few members... resulting in various small groups posting in their own little world...

                                            That is certainly something all members (me, other members, moderators, super moderators and praetor alike) we all need to work on... usually we get off topic and then ended up to some dead discussions where only a few members know what the heck is going on (therefore only they can continue to chat there)

                                            The classical homosexual vs heterosexual, and the creation vs evolution topic... fun fun fun. Unfortunately for the staff, it's a no win situation. Either one of the following will happen.

                                            If banning them:
                                            -violating freedom of speech
                                            -group of people who wants to talk about them will be unhappy
                                            -is banning some of the most interesting topics ever
                                            -homosexual supporter: "why are we allowed to talk about heterosexual pairings and stuff? this is clear discriminations!"

                                            If opening them:
                                            -there are bound to be morons who just come along and says "<swear> you all! My side of the argument is correct" and starts a flame war
                                            -or... one member from one side will eventually lose their temper and does the above
                                            -some members will say "oh but this cause unhappiness so let's not do it"
                                            -heterosexual supporter: "why are we allowed to talk about homosexual!? It's clear that this is morally wrong!"

                                            banning or not banning... some people are bound to disagree... it's always a touche topic. In the past they always allowed these topics, starting off with great peaceful discussions until one or two specific members come along to screw things up... it'll be a difficult choice to decide if we shoudl ban these topics or not.

                                            That's all I can think about now... hmm.... *
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                                              #23    
                                            Old January 23rd, 2004 (3:58 PM). Edited January 23rd, 2004 by Purin.
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                                            Purin Purin is offline
                                            Crazy about Pink Hairdos
                                               
                                              Join Date: Dec 2003
                                              Location: Not at PC, coming back only for a really good reason. Coz I'm busy...
                                              Age: 28
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                                              Posts: 2,193
                                              Quote:
                                              Originally Posted by frostweaver
                                              *Thinks about Alyssa: Ever heard of new members...?*

                                              *Has a lot of thought in his mind:

                                              Yeah I never voted for "most valuable member" that's like indirectly saying "everyone else who are not valualbe are:"... MOTM is still neutral to me. However if we're ending MOTM, I hope that we can still do the February MOTM as February is the 2nd anniversary for MOTM, so maybe a nice way to end the MOTM saga.

                                              we analyzed enough about new members already... let's talk "old" members (old as in people from old pc and beyond). It's evidential that many old members left before us, such as gr8person62. I really like him despite of the fact that he can be very brutally truthful (even if he did call me a piece of useless trash once ; ), and great members like him are leaving which is obvious that there's some problem in PC. I read through most of OC reference and you can certainly tell that PC atmosphere and posting tone changed a lot.

                                              Old PC: every topic allows all members to participate
                                              New PC: topics are enclosed between a few members... resulting in various small groups posting in their own little world...
                                              I agree we should do away with the MOTM...to tell you all frankly, since the times of old PC, I was hurt whenever there was no votes for me, which is why during old times, I have never placed a vote at all. I had got over that sadness, and now have a neutral stand on MOTM, but other members do feel kind of unwanted if no more than two votes have been placed for them.

                                              Oh yeah gr8person62, I remember him as the one who feels...um...unwanted here? I would have treated him as a good friend if he wasn't too much of a pessimist, and if he had asked me =P

                                              These days I don't go to the Gameboy sections as my gameplaying skills went rusty (I'm not joking). If I had the chance I will gladly roam about to join in at any forums in PC, but I just don't have the knowledge required to (etc. Other Cards since I hardly play card games).
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                                                #24    
                                              Old January 23rd, 2004 (6:12 PM).
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                                              Iveechan Iveechan is offline
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                                                Join Date: Sep 2003
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                                                Quote:
                                                Originally Posted by Alakazam
                                                Why the heck? WHY THE HECK!? How about why the $&%#@? Geez, from the email you sent me you seem like one angry chick. We here at PC just want everyone to have a good time, so if there's anything I can do to help, please let me know.
                                                I didn't send you an email, that was Scythemantis. And I'm not a chick, I am a human of the female persuation
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                                                  #25    
                                                Old January 24th, 2004 (4:46 PM).
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                                                Igglybuddy Igglybuddy is offline
                                                OMG PENGUINS
                                                   
                                                  Join Date: Sep 2003
                                                  Location: Antarctica
                                                  Posts: 347
                                                  In my opinion, things like those romance/pairup threads are extremely frivolous, and we could definitely be spending our time on better things. MOTM I would never support in a moment, as it's just a popularity contest on boards this big. On smaller boards it works well, since you actually get an opportunity to meet new members properly, but not here.

                                                  In my experience, members who leave tend to come back eventually...but it would be nice if they didn't leave to begin with.
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