The PokéCommunity Forums General Pokémon Discussions Pokémon General
Problem with types

Pokémon General The home for theories, clubs, polls, and other discussions involving the Pokémon franchise that aren't covered in any of the other boards.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1    
Old July 7th, 2018 (8:52 PM).
Enpatsu Shakugan Enpatsu Shakugan is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Gender: Male
Nature: Hasty
Posts: 1,829
Are there any problems you have with types? Anything.

I'm baffled why Steel is weak to Fire.

Steel is almost impossible to be destroyed by fire in real life. Fire can mold it, but not destroy it. It takes fire very well.

Metal is extremely conductive to electricity though, to point of being dangerous. Why isn't Steel weak to Electric instead? It would make so much more sense to me. Would it have made Steelix too OP? Is that why?
Reply With Quote
  #2    
Old July 7th, 2018 (9:25 PM).
Masterge77's Avatar
Masterge77 Masterge77 is offline
Robot Mienshao
     
    Join Date: Dec 2007
    Location: Sinnoh Region
    Gender: Male
    Nature: Serious
    Posts: 1,089
    The thing that's bothered me for years was Rock and Ground being both separate types despite both being based on the same element. I fail to understand why they need to be separate types. Also, every Normal/Flying type, why can't they just be pure Flying?

    And the fact there are 18 types overall, when most other RPG games only have 5 or 6 elemental types. Seriously, I wish they simplified the elemental typing system due to how convoluted it is.
    __________________
    My DA account
    Avatar made by MelNathea on DeviantART

    The Owner of Sea Weasels, the club for Buizel and Floatzel fans!
    Reply With Quote
      #3    
    Old July 8th, 2018 (5:03 AM). Edited July 8th, 2018 by CF1994.
    CF1994's Avatar
    CF1994 CF1994 is offline
       
      Join Date: Jul 2016
      Gender: Male
      Nature: Hasty
      Posts: 634
      While I find Rock-types hard to use, at least you can obtain some of them at an early point in the game.

      Ice-type is the most shafted of all typings, all things considered.

      There's nothing busted about a type with only one resistance and four weaknesses, and yet they're restricted to the penultimate and final dungeons in several regions. It would not turn the games into god mode to have an Ice-type Gym early on.

      It doesn't help that they're generally designed to be slow and bulky, which often never works out in the long run due to how common Fire, Steel, Rock, and Fighting-types are in competitive play.

      Only a small amount of Ice Pokémon have ever been consistently viable since their debut, which goes to show how much of an overhaul the type needs.

      My recommendations for resistances would be Water, Grass, Ground, and Flying-types. Stealth Rock and insufficient recovery would still be a problem, but at least some more Ice-types could find more use in UU/OU.
      __________________
      Reply With Quote
        #4    
      Old July 8th, 2018 (5:33 AM).
      w1f1pa55w0rd's Avatar
      w1f1pa55w0rd w1f1pa55w0rd is offline
      u5uk1r0k
         
        Join Date: Oct 2016
        Location: A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away...
        Gender: Male
        Nature: Bashful
        Posts: 278
        Honestly, fairy types make no sense. they take away the idea of a "normal" pokemon. and how the heck does a pixie kill a ten-foot behemoth of a dragon? srsly, think abt it. i understand that dragons needed a counter, but couldn't they have just buffed ice types? and why isn't steel weak to electric moves? these are just some really big flaws in pkmn. im mainly just salty abt fairy types though. they just make no sens
        __________________
        This is my grandson. He’s been your rival since you were a baby. …Erm, what is his name again?”
        -Professor Oak
        ”We hope to see you again!”
        -Nurse Joy
        “I like shorts! They’re comfy and easy to wear!”
        -Youngster
        “Mostly I breathe fire, but want to exchange numbers?”
        -Firebreather Walt... Sure, I'll give my number that let's anyone know where I am to a strange shirtless firebreathing man who ran up to me and attempted ot incapacitate my pets...
        Reply With Quote
          #5    
        Old July 8th, 2018 (12:03 PM).
        Nah's Avatar
        Nah Nah is offline
         
        Join Date: Nov 2013
        Age: 26
        Gender: Female
        Posts: 12,799
        The way I see the whole Steel thing, it's not weak to Electric because, while it makes for a good conductor, no damage is actually done to the metal itself. The danger is more in something/someone else touching the electrified metal. For Fire, while hitting it with some flames doesn't really do anything, it probably comes more from the idea of smelting--heat up some metal/ore to a high enough temperature, and it melts.
        __________________
        Nah ンン
        “No, I... I have to be strong. Everyone expects me to."
        Reply With Quote
          #6    
        Old July 8th, 2018 (1:16 PM).
        Enpatsu Shakugan Enpatsu Shakugan is offline
        Banned
         
        Join Date: Apr 2018
        Gender: Male
        Nature: Hasty
        Posts: 1,829
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Nah View Post
        The way I see the whole Steel thing, it's not weak to Electric because, while it makes for a good conductor, no damage is actually done to the metal itself. The danger is more in something/someone else touching the electrified metal. For Fire, while hitting it with some flames doesn't really do anything, it probably comes more from the idea of smelting--heat up some metal/ore to a high enough temperature, and it melts.
        Metal doesn't actually melt; it only becomes softer. So I don't see why fire should weaken it.
        Reply With Quote
          #7    
        Old July 8th, 2018 (1:26 PM).
        Nah's Avatar
        Nah Nah is offline
         
        Join Date: Nov 2013
        Age: 26
        Gender: Female
        Posts: 12,799
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Enpatsu Shakugan View Post
        Metal doesn't actually melt; it only becomes softer. So I don't see why fire should weaken it.
        Are you sure about that?

        Even if that is the case, wouldn't softening it through heat still provide some degree (but only some) of basis for Steel being weak to Fire?
        __________________
        Nah ンン
        “No, I... I have to be strong. Everyone expects me to."
        Reply With Quote
          #8    
        Old July 8th, 2018 (1:52 PM).
        Enpatsu Shakugan Enpatsu Shakugan is offline
        Banned
         
        Join Date: Apr 2018
        Gender: Male
        Nature: Hasty
        Posts: 1,829
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Nah View Post
        Are you sure about that?

        Even if that is the case, wouldn't softening it through heat still provide some degree (but only some) of basis for Steel being weak to Fire?
        I guess so. Softening it up would eliminate its biggest strength.

        And yeah, I'm sure. I've both watched and been around metal forging. It doesn't melt, haha.
        Reply With Quote
          #9    
        Old July 8th, 2018 (1:55 PM).
        zetsubanx's Avatar
        zetsubanx zetsubanx is offline
           
          Join Date: Jul 2018
          Gender: Male
          Nature: Hardy
          Posts: 41
          I agree that Steel should be weak to Electric, but I don't see what's wrong with it being weak to Fire. I mean, if you wanted to get technical about it, Steel shouldn't be weak to anything. It at least makes some degree of sense for Steel to be weak to Fire.

          Anyway, I think that Water and Flying should be weak to Poison - air and water pollution, you know? Right now, Poison is only strong against Fairy and Grass, and Grass is weak to pretty much everything, so that one doesn't count. Poison is just such a useless type.
          Reply With Quote
            #10    
          Old July 9th, 2018 (5:19 AM). Edited July 9th, 2018 by Phosphophyllite.
          Phosphophyllite's Avatar
          Phosphophyllite Phosphophyllite is offline
          アンヘロさん は、コミュ症です
           
          Join Date: Oct 2011
          Location: Grandiose City
          Age: 16
          Gender: Male
          Nature: Quirky
          Posts: 4,583
          #BuffIceorBust

          I feel Grass has been the worst represented of the three starter types, mainly because all the Grass-type specialists in each region (except Hoenn) are one of the first four Gym Leaders in the game. Yup, Water and Fire get E4 members, but not Grass. Why?
          __________________

          I only listen to high-quality video game rips.
          Reply With Quote
            #11    
          Old July 9th, 2018 (10:44 AM).
          strangerhypno's Avatar
          strangerhypno strangerhypno is offline
             
            Join Date: Jul 2017
            Posts: 2,520
            Ice is underpowered right now. Please buff ice GF so Delibird can ascend.
            Reply With Quote
              #12    
            Old July 9th, 2018 (11:32 AM).
            Venia Silente's Avatar
            Venia Silente Venia Silente is offline
            Worrisome, but also Charming
             
            Join Date: Oct 2008
            Location: behind that truck
            Gender: Male
            Nature: Timid
            Posts: 696
            My only issue with Types is that a good amount of them are not defined in a mutually representative way, or they are simply not relationally defined at all. We have eg.: Ground and Rock, Water and Ice, but not let's say Fire and Plasma. And what is the difference between Water and Ice (or Ground and Rock) anyway? What relation does Water have to Grass or Rock that Ice does not?

            And let's not get into Fighting versus "life energy", "fighting spirit" and all that. Something like fighting spirit or a second wind should be more properly represented by Psychic, not Fighting.

            Quote:
            Steel
            It is the natural condition of metals to react to electricity in a reversible way (ie.: transferring electric current or being an dielectric isolator); conversely, fire and detonations deal a noticeably more disrupting change to metals. I guess the weakness of Steel to Fire and not to Electric tries to reflect all that somewhat.
            __________________
            Venia Silente' - Consulting Worldbuilder
            Image will go here...
            one day.

            The Suocéverse - Pokémon Stuff

            IntroductionOfficial Wiki

            SWC Entries
            : Playfield 2009 : Misaimed for Life 2014 :
            : As They Were 2016 : Simpler than Magic 2017 :
            : Beyond Today 2018 :

            Other Releases
            : Pseudo-Legendary : Silly human, romance is for Nidoran! (Valentine's : Tricks of the Love Fast (Valentine's) : Overlord (meow~) :
            »»More in profile link or wiki link««

            In progress, I swear

            : Interim : Suocéverse: Legends : Gelid Remainder :


            Reply With Quote
              #13    
            Old July 13th, 2018 (9:07 AM).
            BlowDryMan's Avatar
            BlowDryMan BlowDryMan is offline
               
              Join Date: Jul 2018
              Posts: 36
              Ice needs a Water resist and a defense buff in Hail. Making Hurricane have 100 acc in hail would also make hail better.
              Reply With Quote
                #14    
              Old July 14th, 2018 (11:45 PM). Edited July 31st, 2018 by Topaz Light.
              Topaz Light's Avatar
              Topaz Light Topaz Light is offline
                 
                Join Date: Mar 2016
                Location: SPECIAL AREA
                Gender: Other
                Nature: Gentle
                Posts: 101
                I think it warrants mentioning that Pokémon type matchups aren't always based 100% on how forcing those two things to interact in reality would go; there's some amount of Fantasy/RPG Logic and just plain game balance-motivated decisions to it.

                An example of the former would be Ice being weak to Fire and Fire resisting it. In reality, the interactions of Fire with Ice as opposed to Water should be very similar, but because Fire melting Ice makes it stop being Ice, that counts enough for them to give Fire a decisive upper hand in that matchup.

                For an example of the latter, I really have absolutely no earthly clue why Dark is weak to Bug. It is, and that's something I've always just sort of accepted without really questioning it, but there's not really any real phenomenon that I'm aware of that that would be based on. I'm pretty sure it's 100% a game balance thing to give Bug another thing to be good against.

                For my part, I think that GameFreak is usually really good about picking sensible typings for Pokémon, but there are some that stick out to me as sorta odd.

                The biggest example that comes to mind for me is the Flabébé line, which is pure Fairy-type for reasons I cannot for the life of me understand. They learn more Grass-type moves from leveling up than Fairy-type ones, and that's not even getting into the strong floral aesthetics and theming in their designs. It just boggles my mind that they aren't Fairy/Grass rather than pure Fairy.

                A second example would be Dunsparce, which seems to me like it'd make a good Ground-type, or perhaps Ground/Normal or Ground/Fairy... the latter of which would of course not be possible prior to Gen VI, but it still gives me such strong Ground-type vibes that I'm not entirely sure why it's just pure Normal.
                __________________
                Who has lost his tail?
                The forgotten one of the ship that sails the cosmos.
                Reply With Quote
                  #15    
                Old July 15th, 2018 (12:25 AM). Edited July 31st, 2018 by Topaz Light.
                Topaz Light's Avatar
                Topaz Light Topaz Light is offline
                   
                  Join Date: Mar 2016
                  Location: SPECIAL AREA
                  Gender: Other
                  Nature: Gentle
                  Posts: 101
                  EDIT: Oops! Please delete this post!
                  __________________
                  Who has lost his tail?
                  The forgotten one of the ship that sails the cosmos.
                  Reply With Quote
                    #16    
                  Old July 15th, 2018 (4:13 AM).
                  Enpatsu Shakugan Enpatsu Shakugan is offline
                  Banned
                   
                  Join Date: Apr 2018
                  Gender: Male
                  Nature: Hasty
                  Posts: 1,829
                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by Topaz Light View Post
                  I think it warrants mentioning that Pokémon type matchups aren't always based 100% on how forcing those two things to interact in reality would go; there's some amount of Fantasy/RPG Logic and just plain game balance-motivated decisions to it.

                  An example of the former would be Ice being weak to Fire and Fire resisting it. In reality, the interactions of Fire with Ice as opposed to Water should be very similar, but because Fire melting Ice makes it stop being Ice, that counts enough for them to give Fire a decisive upper hand in that matchup.

                  For an example of the latter, I really have absolutely no earthly clue why Dark is weak to Bug. It is, and that's something I've always just sort of accepted without really questioning it, but there's not really any real phenomenon that I'm aware of that that would be based on. I'm pretty sure it's 100% a game balance thing to give Bug another thing to be good against.
                  But just like steel, in contact with fire, yeah it becomes water, but it stops being ice. It loses all ice properties. So maybe that's why?
                  Reply With Quote
                    #17    
                  Old July 15th, 2018 (10:55 AM).
                  liluzivertfanviper's Avatar
                  liluzivertfanviper liluzivertfanviper is offline
                     
                    Join Date: Jul 2018
                    Posts: 14
                    i think normal should be strong against something honestly.
                    Reply With Quote
                      #18    
                    Old July 15th, 2018 (11:02 PM).
                    Palamon's Avatar
                    Palamon Palamon is offline
                    In too deep inside these streets aligned.
                     
                    Join Date: Feb 2009
                    Location: Milaturia.
                    Age: 21
                    Gender: Male
                    Nature: Lonely
                    Posts: 4,172
                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by liluzivertfanviper View Post
                    i think normal should be strong against something honestly.
                    ....The point of the normal type is that it has no strengths, though.

                    Ice type seriously needs to be given something to make it more viable. It's only resistant to itself and has many weaknesses... it needs to be given a revision of some kind.
                    __________________
                    Theme: Eiji Okumura
                    Pair: Jonghyun
                    Reply With Quote
                      #19    
                    Old July 16th, 2018 (12:19 AM).
                    lillipup03's Avatar
                    lillipup03 lillipup03 is offline
                       
                      Join Date: Jun 2018
                      Location: Ohio, USA
                      Age: 15
                      Gender: Male
                      Nature: Quirky
                      Posts: 130
                      The two main ones for me are...

                      -Why doesn’t Ice resist Grass?

                      -Why isn’t Steel weak to Electric?

                      I get that grass types don’t need to be even weaker offensively, but Ice types have some serious problems. The Steel/Electric thing just makes sense to me as not only does it nerf the defensively OP steel type, but it also helps out the electric type which has always felt kind of mediocre on offense.
                      __________________

                      Name: Annabelle
                      Adopt one yourself! @Pokémon Orphanage

                      Living Pokédex
                      https://pokedextracker.com/u/lillipup03/my-living-dex

                      Shiny Hunts
                      Current:
                      Finneon SOS
                      Latios SR

                      Shiny Count:
                      10

                      Reply With Quote
                        #20    
                      Old July 16th, 2018 (12:15 PM).
                      LusoTrainer's Avatar
                      LusoTrainer LusoTrainer is offline
                         
                        Join Date: Mar 2013
                        Gender: Male
                        Posts: 409
                        Quote:
                        Originally Posted by Enpatsu Shakugan View Post
                        Are there any problems you have with types? Anything.

                        I'm baffled why Steel is weak to Fire.

                        Steel is almost impossible to be destroyed by fire in real life. Fire can mold it, but not destroy it. It takes fire very well.
                        Why would it need to be destroyed? The fact that steel is molded by fire makes its weakness very logical. Because the whole advantage of steel as a property is gone in that 'weakened' state.
                        __________________
                        Reply With Quote
                        Reply

                        Quick Reply

                        Join the conversation!

                        Create an account to post a reply in this thread, participate in other discussions, and more!

                        Create a PokéCommunity Account
                        Thread Tools

                        Posting Rules
                        You may not post new threads
                        You may not post replies
                        You may not post attachments
                        You may not edit your posts

                        BB code is On
                        Smilies are On
                        [IMG] code is On
                        HTML code is Off

                        Forum Jump


                        All times are GMT -8. The time now is 6:26 AM.