Serious 2020 Democratic Primaries Page 7

Started by VisionofMilotic April 10th, 2019 11:07 AM
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Ivysaur

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But the question is: even if Clinton jumped into the race, who would vote for her? Who? You need people to vote for you if you want to win a primary, right? And I don't know a single person who would actually vote to run again the only person who we know has lost to Trump in an election so he can beat her once more without even forcing Fox to come up with some new "the Dem candidate is Satan incarnate" propaganda.
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But the question is: even if Clinton jumped into the race, who would vote for her? Who? You need people to vote for you if you want to win a primary, right? And I don't know a single person who would actually vote to run again the only person who we know has lost to Trump in an election so he can beat her once more without even forcing Fox to come up with some new "the Dem candidate is Satan incarnate" propaganda.
I can think of two types, the first are the diehard Clinton loyalists, those that honestly think it is her time, that she deserves the Presidency and that she unfairly lost the last election because of Russia. There are not too many of these Clinton fans but I don’t doubt they are out there. This could become a factor if there is no clear winner in the first round of balloting at the convention, at which point the Super Delegates come in, who may have a stronger tie to the Clintons as we saw in 2016.

The second would be those who are more left of center or who believe a more unifying candidate has a better chance of winning than a far leftist candidate. These right now seem to occupy the Biden camp and to a lesser extent the Buttigieg camp. If Biden were to drop out they could conceivably migrate to a Clinton candidacy. Probably not enough to put her into the number one slot, but atleast in the top three.

Ivysaur

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I can think of two types, the first are the diehard Clinton loyalists, those that honestly think it is her time, that she deserves the Presidency and that she unfairly lost the last election because of Russia. There are not too many of these Clinton fans but I don’t doubt they are out there. This could become a factor if there is no clear winner in the first round of balloting at the convention, at which point the Super Delegates come in, who may have a stronger tie to the Clintons as we saw in 2016.

The second would be those who are more left of center or who believe a more unifying candidate has a better chance of winning than a far leftist candidate. These right now seem to occupy the Biden camp and to a lesser extent the Buttigieg camp. If Biden were to drop out they could conceivably migrate to a Clinton candidacy. Probably not enough to put her into the number one slot, but atleast in the top three.
I don't deny that there may be some die-hard Clinton fans, and that's why I said she might be able to go head-to-head against Bullock for that sweet 1% in the polls, but the other two scenarios sound totally insane to me. I fail to understand why, if there's a tie or the frontrunner fails a bit short, the superdelegates would pick Clinton out of nowhere instead of simply giving Biden / Buttigieg / insert centrist who is actually running a push to get over the line (if they really think Warren is so unacceptable, which I am not so certain).

And second, I don't know how Clinton can be a more unifying figure than, well, anyone who is running. If Biden were to drop (why would he, anyway), chances are they'd migrate to, well, Buttigieg or Klobuchar or one of the centrists who are actually running and don't have five tons of baggage that can be used by Fox News to craft hours and hours of cheap propaganda shots. At the very least, with Buttigieg, Trump News would have to put in some effort to explain why he's the greatest threat to humanity who ever existed. With Clinton? Just put the propaganda into the microwave, ting, you're done.
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I don't deny that there may be some die-hard Clinton fans, and that's why I said she might be able to go head-to-head against Bullock for that sweet 1% in the polls, but the other two scenarios sound totally insane to me. I fail to understand why, if there's a tie or the frontrunner fails a bit short, the superdelegates would pick Clinton out of nowhere instead of simply giving Biden / Buttigieg / insert centrist who is actually running a push to get over the line (if they really think Warren is so unacceptable, which I am not so certain).

And second, I don't know how Clinton can be a more unifying figure than, well, anyone who is running. If Biden were to drop (why would he, anyway), chances are they'd migrate to, well, Buttigieg or Klobuchar or one of the centrists who are actually running and don't have five tons of baggage that can be used by Fox News to craft hours and hours of cheap propaganda shots. At the very least, with Buttigieg, Trump News would have to put in some effort to explain why he's the greatest threat to humanity who ever existed. With Clinton? Just put the propaganda into the microwave, ting, you're done.
I agree for it to happen largely would have to be because Biden bows out either because of health issues or just total self destruction. I am not sure about Klobuchar but Buttigieg may have problems maintaining the African American vote, he has had some problems over the summer with a shooting in his town, and according to the NYTimes atleast his campaign is worrying that being gay is a barrier to him winning African American voters.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/10/27/us/politics/pete-buttigieg-south-carolina.amp.html

Ivysaur

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I agree for it to happen largely would have to be because Biden bows out either because of health issues or just total self destruction. I am not sure about Klobuchar but Buttigieg may have problems maintaining the African American vote, he has had some problems over the summer with a shooting in his town, and according to the NYTimes atleast his campaign is worrying that being gay is a barrier to him winning African American voters.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/10/27/us/politics/pete-buttigieg-south-carolina.amp.html
But Buttigieg is not A Gay. If you listen to his stump speech, that's just a footnote, not something he beats you up with every second. And he is pretty religious, so I'm pretty sure the vast majority of African-Americans could live with him. Which is different to being enthusiastic about him when you have other options in a primary, but, well. The alternative in the general would be Trump and the Republicans anyway, so I'm pretty sure >90% of them would fall into line as usual.

But still. Another point is that many voters, especially the more left-wing ones (which the party also needs to win an election) could grudgingly vote for Biden or Buttigieg even if they find them way too mushy centrist if they were to beat Sanders and Warren fair and square. But if the convention ends up with "Surprise! It's Clinton out of nowhere!", the level of anger -sheer, unstoppable anger- against the Democratic Party would be unbearable. And they'd rather run a Warren and risk losing than undemocratically shove in a Clinton and risk the party itself blowing up for years.
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But Buttigieg is not A Gay. If you listen to his stump speech, that's just a footnote, not something he beats you up with every second. And he is pretty religious, so I'm pretty sure the vast majority of African-Americans could live with him. Which is different to being enthusiastic about him when you have other options in a primary, but, well. The alternative in the general would be Trump and the Republicans anyway, so I'm pretty sure >90% of them would fall into line as usual.
If his campaign memo is to be believed, he doesn't need to go out and wave a rainbow banner at every stump speech, just the mere mention that he has a husband is enough to turn African American voters off. Which is the thing, it doesn't matter if >90% of African American voters vote for Buttigieg in a general election, what matters is the 60% ( The number who say they read scripture every week ) that refused to vote at all.

But still. Another point is that many voters, especially the more left-wing ones (which the party also needs to win an election) could grudgingly vote for Biden or Buttigieg even if they find them way too mushy centrist if they were to beat Sanders and Warren fair and square. But if the convention ends up with "Surprise! It's Clinton out of nowhere!", the level of anger -sheer, unstoppable anger- against the Democratic Party would be unbearable. And they'd rather run a Warren and risk losing than undemocratically shove in a Clinton and risk the party itself blowing up for years.
Oh no doubt I agree there is anger, and it really is hard to gameplan a scenario in which she comes out, but here is what I am throwing out and I would love the input.

It's July, Biden is out because of health or some other reason, Warren has a lead, but not enough to put her over, Buttigieg has a sizeable amount but he did not win a single southern state. Bernie is languishing in third place, but does not want to play king maker to the other two, hoping that he can sneak in on the later rounds.

Thinking Warren is a tougher foe, the RNC and Trump Campaign begin to blast the airwaves that Warren will raise your taxes, she will replace your health care with something that resembles the VA or the DMV. Think a combination of the Republican ad blitz during the Obamacare debate, combined with Obama's ad blitz in the summer of 2012 to set Romney up as a out of touch elitist.

The DNC sees two choices, either go with a candidate that will satisfy the liberal wing, but is getting trounced in her vision of health care, or go with a candidate that will satisfy the moderate wing, but cannot hold together the so called "Obama Coalition" needed to win.

That is where Clinton comes in, she argues that she won by 3 million over Trump, and will do it again, she learned her lessons from last time, etc etc etc. The DNC sees it as a way to get an establishment candidate in, that could appeal to the moderate voters with Buttigieg, and that could possibly win over the Warren supporters by being the first female president. Possibly with some additional horse trading of Warren being the VP or something.

Yeah it is very House of Cardsish, and yeah it would enrage the liberal base, but I could see the DNC looking at 2016 with Bernie voters and saying “They will come around”

Hands

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I can think of two types, the first are the diehard Clinton loyalists, those that honestly think it is her time, that she deserves the Presidency and that she unfairly lost the last election because of Russia. There are not too many of these Clinton fans but I don’t doubt they are out there. This could become a factor if there is no clear winner in the first round of balloting at the convention, at which point the Super Delegates come in, who may have a stronger tie to the Clintons as we saw in 2016.

The second would be those who are more left of center or who believe a more unifying candidate has a better chance of winning than a far leftist candidate. These right now seem to occupy the Biden camp and to a lesser extent the Buttigieg camp. If Biden were to drop out they could conceivably migrate to a Clinton candidacy. Probably not enough to put her into the number one slot, but atleast in the top three.
If you are left of center there's absolutely zero chance you're backing Biden, you are likely backing Warren

VisionofMilotic

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We're just a couple of months before the Iowa caucus, and more folks are still entering the primary. Make it stop... there's too many of you. I have lost count. There's not enough distinctions between them. If they were all bringing new ideas with them then my patience wouldn't wear so thin.

Bloomberg was in the running for my least favorite candidate when he entered the primary last week, but now that Deval Patrick is in it he's definitely the guy I dislike the most. He just stopped working for Mitt Romney's investment firm Bain Capital days ago literally, so he can continue his vulture economic policies on a state level. Worse than his time harvesting companies as a Bain executive may be his job with Ameriquest who helped give us the subprime mortgage loan crisis. Safe to say that we'll have more predatory environmental policies as well looking at his stint defending Texaco oil from vote lawsuits as they destroyed Ecuador's rainforests drilling for oil. He was loud and clear that Medicare For All is not even an option on the CBS this morning show. He even gifted the pharmaceutical companies with billions in subsidies and tax breaks when he was in office. The oligarchy has found their knight in shining armor. I have made plain my thoughts on Biden, but I would vote even for him over Patrick.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/deval-patricks-resume-is-a-one-stop-shop-of-industries-democrats-loathe

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/11/14/will-deval-patrick-have-mitt-romney-problem/

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Sektor

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The play gets jucier by the day. The more the Democrats line up to run their own little campaigns, the more Trump strolls in with a plastic straw and slurps up the cash they drop. People are feeling left behind and honestly I cannot keep track of all the Democratic runners. The mains, sure but the little people?

Trump's approval was not halted by the impeachment inquiry at all, in fact it rose by about four or five points. What's more, President Trump's campaign raised 3 million in as many hours at the start of this little impeachment picnic.

While money does not guarantee a win (it helped Hillary absolutely zero) it shows that people are willing to support President Trump regardless.

Schiff does not help the Democrats at all, and the longer this beat rolls on the closer the steam roller gets. Too divided, too disrespectful and far too black label for my tastes. Shunting efforts from actually trying to do their jobs.

Word is that you can't utter the so-called whistleblower's name on Twitter, Facebook or Youtube and come out unscathed (if you own a channel in an official capacity). Tim Poole was locked from face book for a bit and youtube privitized his videos regarding said whistleblower, a Mr. 'Allemaraic Cire'. He wasn't the only one.

Maybe the Democrats can pull a somewhat decent candidate out of a hat (Mashes the X Button furiously) that won't get torn to shreds.

The key here that I don't think people understand is that you can call President Trump anything and everything under the sun and it will. not. work. He is Teflon Don and his base, and now the center, is beginning to believe it as well. The people leading the charge against him are far too weak.
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Pete Buttigieg has rocketed to a first place lead of nine points in one of the latest polls of Iowa.

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/iowa-poll/2019/11/17/pete-buttigieg-leads-new-iowa-poll-warren-sanders-biden-follow/4198100002/

The caucus is still 3 months away, so plenty of time for that to change, however if the Senate picks up impeachment hearings after the Christmas break, that would mean Senator Sanders and Senator Warren would be forced to stay in Washington the final month before the start of the caucus.

Hands

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The play gets jucier by the day. The more the Democrats line up to run their own little campaigns, the more Trump strolls in with a plastic straw and slurps up the cash they drop. People are feeling left behind and honestly I cannot keep track of all the Democratic runners. The mains, sure but the little people?

Trump's approval was not halted by the impeachment inquiry at all, in fact it rose by about four or five points. What's more, President Trump's campaign raised 3 million in as many hours at the start of this little impeachment picnic.

While money does not guarantee a win (it helped Hillary absolutely zero) it shows that people are willing to support President Trump regardless.

Schiff does not help the Democrats at all, and the longer this beat rolls on the closer the steam roller gets. Too divided, too disrespectful and far too black label for my tastes. Shunting efforts from actually trying to do their jobs.

Word is that you can't utter the so-called whistleblower's name on Twitter, Facebook or Youtube and come out unscathed (if you own a channel in an official capacity). Tim Poole was locked from face book for a bit and youtube privitized his videos regarding said whistleblower, a Mr. 'Allemaraic Cire'. He wasn't the only one.

Maybe the Democrats can pull a somewhat decent candidate out of a hat (Mashes the X Button furiously) that won't get torn to shreds.

The key here that I don't think people understand is that you can call President Trump anything and everything under the sun and it will. not. work. He is Teflon Don and his base, and now the center, is beginning to believe it as well. The people leading the charge against him are far too weak.


They don't need to call him names, the man is an absolute catastrophe who's dementia is getting out of hand.

Neil Peart

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The play gets jucier by the day. The more the Democrats line up to run their own little campaigns, the more Trump strolls in with a plastic straw and slurps up the cash they drop. People are feeling left behind and honestly I cannot keep track of all the Democratic runners. The mains, sure but the little people?
Why yes, giving people as much choice they can get in a country where your actual choices in elections are limited to about as close to an oligarchy as you can get is so, totally awful. I remember watching an episode of The Newsroom, and a character said "our elections are the envy of the world." I read posts like yours, and just remember all of the people I talk to here in Finland and elsewhere who think the exact opposite. The only people taken seriously are those with either the most clout or, most importantly in a plutocracy, the most cash. Your insulting of the fact that many people are trying to make names for themselves in a country where they were half-assedly told "anyone can be president" since birth is more proof of how idiotic the American political system is, and we all know that lack of thought and fact-checking leads to Republican victories. Which leads me to...

Maybe the Democrats can pull a somewhat decent candidate out of a hat (Mashes the X Button furiously) that won't get torn to shreds.
Sometimes, I just want to say "I have no sympathy" in regards to people who voted for Trump and are now seeing either their jobs or their healthcare go away or balloon in price. Then, I remember that the DNC did all they could to stop the Democratic candidate who would have wiped the floor with Trump -- Bernie Sanders. There's nothing that Joe Schmoe could have done to stop that. Bernie was a scandal-free candidate running against a candidate that had scandals coming out of his ears. In the moronic circus that has become American presidential elections, sometimes, that's enough. And don't give me crap about his "socialism" being too scary for people to grasp. The people would have taken that over a man who openly bragged about being a sexual harassment machine, insults minorities and women on the regular, and hasn't an honest bone in his miserable body. The Democrats have ALWAYS had a great candidate. It's just the establishment that won't let him take what he should have had in 2016. Again, because of money.

The key here that I don't think people understand is that you can call President Trump anything and everything under the sun and it will. not. work. He is Teflon Don and his base, and now the center, is beginning to believe it as well. The people leading the charge against him are far too weak.
True, but the other thing Don has in his favor is an uneducated voter base. Statistically, people who vote Republican in the US are less educated, and it shows when you end up with people like Trump as leader of the free world. With less education comes a greater tendency to believe bullmuk and blatant lies, whether they're spread by your fellow citizens on Facebook, or a million Russian bots on Twitter. Some people just don't do any sort of critical thinking, and their fervent, embarrassing jingoism combines with that to make a recipe for disaster -- for any society. And his opposition is rather toothless, but then again, anyone looks toothless when you put them up against a crazy old man who tweets seven times a second, has a rabid fanbase with a deep love for guns, and foreign friends in low places who are probably doing muk to help keep him in office. Nothing I could prove, but come on. This guy is corruption incarnate. However, if you can't look at Bernie and at least admire the fight he's STILL putting up for the working class and the marginalized, at his age with his health problems, then you're just hopeless as a human being.

There was no "blue wave" in 2018, and there will be no happy ending for Dems in 2020. The world is trending towards the intolerant right-wing, and until there's another Depression or something major, Americans will continue to vote against their interests and be of no envy to anyone in the developed world.
If you’ve got a problem, take it out on a drum.
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The play gets jucier by the day. The more the Democrats line up to run their own little campaigns, the more Trump strolls in with a plastic straw and slurps up the cash they drop. People are feeling left behind and honestly I cannot keep track of all the Democratic runners. The mains, sure but the little people?
Yes, using Twitter to threaten a witness while said witness was actually in court answering questions regarding witness intimidation is an original and novel idea.

That was, of course, sarcasm. As far as mistakes made in legal proceedings go, I would place it slightly below Charles Manson's attempt to assault the judge at his trial.
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Posted October 24th, 2022
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The play gets jucier by the day. The more the Democrats line up to run their own little campaigns, the more Trump strolls in with a plastic straw and slurps up the cash they drop. People are feeling left behind and honestly I cannot keep track of all the Democratic runners. The mains, sure but the little people?

Trump's approval was not halted by the impeachment inquiry at all, in fact it rose by about four or five points. What's more, President Trump's campaign raised 3 million in as many hours at the start of this little impeachment picnic.
That's because it just looks like a show trial at this point. The Russian thing fell through and the dems hope to drag this farce of an investigation out till the election so they can milk the "our candidate isn't facing impeachment."

While money does not guarantee a win (it helped Hillary absolutely zero) it shows that people are willing to support President Trump regardless.
She did well enough with it.

Schiff does not help the Democrats at all, and the longer this beat rolls on the closer the steam roller gets. Too divided, too disrespectful and far too black label for my tastes. Shunting efforts from actually trying to do their jobs.
Gotta appease their base and look like their trying something.

Word is that you can't utter the so-called whistleblower's name on Twitter, Facebook or Youtube and come out unscathed (if you own a channel in an official capacity). Tim Poole was locked from face book for a bit and youtube privitized his videos regarding said whistleblower, a Mr. 'Allemaraic Cire'. He wasn't the only one.
Which is incredibly stupid as his name is in the NEWS!

Maybe the Democrats can pull a somewhat decent candidate out of a hat (Mashes the X Button furiously) that won't get torn to shreds.
Very unlikely.

The key here that I don't think people understand is that you can call President Trump anything and everything under the sun and it will. not. work. He is Teflon Don and his base, and now the center, is beginning to believe it as well. The people leading the charge against him are far too weak.
Less teflon Don and more that after all the other accusations fell apart, its turned into the "Dem who cried wolf!"

They don't need to call him names, the man is an absolute catastrophe who's dementia is getting out of hand.
I disagree.

Why yes, giving people as much choice they can get in a country where your actual choices in elections are limited to about as close to an oligarchy as you can get is so, totally awful. I remember watching an episode of The Newsroom, and a character said "our elections are the envy of the world." I read posts like yours, and just remember all of the people I talk to here in Finland and elsewhere who think the exact opposite. The only people taken seriously are those with either the most clout or, most importantly in a plutocracy, the most cash. Your insulting of the fact that many people are trying to make names for themselves in a country where they were half-assedly told "anyone can be president" since birth is more proof of how idiotic the American political system is, and we all know that lack of thought and fact-checking leads to Republican victories. Which leads me to...
Everyone thinks the other groups political system is terrible.


Sometimes, I just want to say "I have no sympathy" in regards to people who voted for Trump and are now seeing either their jobs or their healthcare go away or balloon in price. Then, I remember that the DNC did all they could to stop the Democratic candidate who would have wiped the floor with Trump -- Bernie Sanders. There's nothing that Joe Schmoe could have done to stop that. Bernie was a scandal-free candidate running against a candidate that had scandals coming out of his ears. In the moronic circus that has become American presidential elections, sometimes, that's enough. And don't give me crap about his "socialism" being too scary for people to grasp. The people would have taken that over a man who openly bragged about being a sexual harassment machine, insults minorities and women on the regular, and hasn't an honest bone in his miserable body. The Democrats have ALWAYS had a great candidate. It's just the establishment that won't let him take what he should have had in 2016. Again, because of money.
There is no way that Sanders would have won. He has zero grasp of economics plus he's a socialist (redundant?). Most people know exactly were that leads and aren't interested in joining the breadlines.

True, but the other thing Don has in his favor is an uneducated voter base. Statistically, people who vote Republican in the US are less educated, and it shows when you end up with people like Trump as leader of the free world. With less education comes a greater tendency to believe bullmuk and blatant lies, whether they're spread by your fellow citizens on Facebook, or a million Russian bots on Twitter. Some people just don't do any sort of critical thinking, and their fervent, embarrassing jingoism combines with that to make a recipe for disaster -- for any society. And his opposition is rather toothless, but then again, anyone looks toothless when you put them up against a crazy old man who tweets seven times a second, has a rabid fanbase with a deep love for guns, and foreign friends in low places who are probably doing muk to help keep him in office. Nothing I could prove, but come on. This guy is corruption incarnate. However, if you can't look at Bernie and at least admire the fight he's STILL putting up for the working class and the marginalized, at his age with his health problems, then you're just hopeless as a human being.
Ah yes, stereotypes, insults and conspiracy theories.


There was no "blue wave" in 2018, and there will be no happy ending for Dems in 2020. The world is trending towards the intolerant right-wing, and until there's another Depression or something major, Americans will continue to vote against their interests and be of no envy to anyone in the developed world.
I agree that the Dems won't be happy but I disagree that the world is trending towards intolerance.
Lets have a moment of silence for all the strawmen burnt here, it is truly a massacre. -EnglishAlt

Sektor

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You can put down as many words and sarcastic comments you would like, but people. Do. Not. Care. They just don't. Not anymore.

If that were the case, then impeachment would have across the board approval, correct? Wrong, as it only has a 40 point approval and dropping.

Even if they somehow try to shuffle him away the senate won't vote him away. And once again, calling names does not help in the slightest.

The reason why he won in the first place is because the left for years, has always said the right is an uneducated bunch. Well, I wonder what happens when you continually talk down to a group like that? You get President Trump. So if we're playing the no sympathy game, perhaps you need to set yourself a plate and help yourself to some humble pie.

What's most remarkable is that people think they know the game, but they really do not. The playing field has changed. People do not appreciate the left's default behaviour of talking down to them any longer. Calling people uneducated (ironic, considering the debt to wage ratio of college graduates) does not work. Calling them racist does not work. Calling them bigots, sexist, misogynistic, stupid, Nazis does not work. What this tells me is that the value of these words, and the value of the one speaking them has diminished greatly.

And the stupids? Well they were smart enough evidently to drunkenly wander to their local polling boothes and punch the button that says Donald Trump so I suppose they cannot be too dumb.

One thing I do know is that the democrats need a candidate that does not huff hair, pretend to be a Native American or tax the middle class more. If you tend to disagree with that I do not know what can be done but I assure you they are ceritified losers.
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If that were the case, then impeachment would have across the board approval, correct? Wrong, as it only has a 40 point approval and dropping.

Wait, where did you get that? Here's the one I saw today:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/11/18/poll-seventy-percent-trump-ukraine-actions-wrong/4227312002/

Nah

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What any individual poll will say will vary based on who you poll and how you word the poll.

The thing with statistics is that you want as large of a sample size as possible, as the larger the sample size, the more representative it is of how the whole feels. Unfortunately, getting a huge sample size is usually not feasible, and a lot of polling organizations have an agenda/are not completely honest in their polling. If you ask the question "Should Donald Trump be removed from office?" to 2000 millennials in urban California and 2000 boomers in the deep south, you'll get wildly different results. Neither result would actually be indicative of how the whole nation feels though, both because the sample size is too small and because the poll only targeted a specific demographic. Wording the poll as "was Trump's phone call inappropriate" vs "was Trump's phone call an impeachable offense" will also yield different results. You'd likely need to look at a lot of different polls to get a more accurate picture.

But really, unless one has been living under a rock for the past 4 or so years, you don't really need to look at polls to have a fairly accurate idea of what most of the country thinks. Donald Trump is a divisive president. A lot of people support him, and a lot of people don't (and there's probably a handful of fence sitters). So naturally opinion on the matter is very roughly split.

In the end though, public opinion matters little for the matter of Trump's impeachment. The outcome was decided from the very beginning: he won't be removed from office. The Senate vote won't come down to evidence, or right/wrong, or doing what's best for the country, but rather just the simple fact that most U.S. politicians for both major parties would rather die than hold one of their own accountable for (obvious) wrongdoing.

also:
He has zero grasp of economics
If we're gonna be real, how many people truly understand economics to a significant degree? I know I don't, and the only person who's posted in this thread so far that I could seriously believe that really does is Went, who literally has degrees in and makes his living on writing about international economics and politics.
Nah ンン
“No, I... I have to be strong. Everyone expects me to."
Male
Ahem, New York City
Seen December 15th, 2022
Posted January 31st, 2021
402 posts
5.4 Years
What any individual poll will say will vary based on who you poll and how you word the poll.
Uh, well, I posted a link to a poll. Sektor did not.

In the end though, public opinion matters little for the matter of Trump's impeachment. The outcome was decided from the very beginning: he won't be removed from office. The Senate vote won't come down to evidence, or right/wrong, or doing what's best for the country, but rather just the simple fact that most U.S. politicians for both major parties would rather die than hold one of their own accountable for (obvious) wrongdoing.
I agree. And the impeachment hearings will label them as willing accomplices to everything he's done, once his crimes are laid out in the open.
Male
Japan
Seen August 25th, 2021
Posted August 21st, 2020
500 posts
4.5 Years
Uh, well, I posted a link to a poll. Sektor did not.
Yes, but the poll is only of 500 people, with no demographic break down or partisanship breakdown. 500 alone is quite small for a nationwide survey



I agree. And the impeachment hearings will label them as willing accomplices to everything he's done, once his crimes are laid out in the open.
So far things are not looking good for the hearings, not a single witness has said they actually saw a crime being committed, or talked with the President.

Ivysaur

Grass dinosaur extraordinaire

Age 32
He/him
Madrid, Europe
Seen 2 Days Ago
Posted April 5th, 2023
21,076 posts
16.2 Years
So far things are not looking good for the hearings, not a single witness has said they actually saw a crime being committed, or talked with the President.
Not that it's extremely relevant, as Trump himself confessed the crime and voluntarily handed in the required evidence by publishing the transcript in which he officially recorded himself commiting it. The transcript is the smoking gun and the criminal act itself, everything else is just circumstancial evidence to understand how deep the conspiracy went. Also a trap so Trump keeps committing extra crimes, such as intimidating witnesses live via Twitter.

Hands

I was saying Boo-urns

Age 32
Male
Seen December 15th, 2022
Posted November 23rd, 2022
1,863 posts
6.8 Years
stuff
Bernie Sanders isn't a socialist and the fact you think he is probably suggests you're the one who doesn't grasp basic economics (or political theory), especially considering the things he's suggested have been moderate views in Europe since the 30s/40s and most countries there implemented them fully and successfully decades ago.
Seen November 19th, 2022
Posted October 24th, 2022
371 posts
5.4 Years
Bernie Sanders isn't a socialist and the fact you think he is probably suggests you're the one who doesn't grasp basic economics (or political theory), especially considering the things he's suggested have been moderate views in Europe since the 30s/40s and most countries there implemented them fully and successfully decades ago.
Sanders has called himself a socialist. He varies between that and “democratic socialist”.
Lets have a moment of silence for all the strawmen burnt here, it is truly a massacre. -EnglishAlt
Male
Japan
Seen August 25th, 2021
Posted August 21st, 2020
500 posts
4.5 Years
Not that it's extremely relevant, as Trump himself confessed the crime and voluntarily handed in the required evidence by publishing the transcript in which he officially recorded himself commiting it. The transcript is the smoking gun and the criminal act itself, everything else is just circumstancial evidence to understand how deep the conspiracy went. Also a trap so Trump keeps committing extra crimes, such as intimidating witnesses live via Twitter.
Not exactly, for a quid pro quo to happen, the Ukrainians would have to know that there funds were linked to the investigations. So far no evidence has appeared of that, not even the transcripts bear that out. Even the Ukrainians have admitted that they did not know the funds were being frozen.

As for intimidating a witness, here are the tweets.

"Everywhere Marie Yovanovitch went turned bad. She started off in Somalia, how did that go? Then fast forward to Ukraine, where the new Ukrainian President spoke unfavorably about her in my second phone call with him. It is a U.S. President’s absolute right to appoint ambassadors."

"....They call it “serving at the pleasure of the President.” The U.S. now has a very strong and powerful foreign policy, much different than proceeding administrations. It is called, quite simply, America First! With all of that, however, I have done FAR more for Ukraine than O."

Where in any of that is intimidation, and further more how could it be intimidation when the tweets were made while she was testifying and thus had no knowledge of them until the Democrats brought them to her attention?

Hands

I was saying Boo-urns

Age 32
Male
Seen December 15th, 2022
Posted November 23rd, 2022
1,863 posts
6.8 Years
Sanders has called himself a socialist. He varies between that and “democratic socialist”.
Oh well if he uses the word it must be true right? It doesn't matter that none of his policies revolve around workers owning the means of production or running society, he says he's one so that's all what matters.
Seen November 19th, 2022
Posted October 24th, 2022
371 posts
5.4 Years
Oh well if he uses the word it must be true right? It doesn't matter that none of his policies revolve around workers owning the means of production or running society, he says he's one so that's all what matters.
So a “no true Scotsman” response?

So he’s starting small. Dude insists he is a socialist. Repeatedly over many years.
Lets have a moment of silence for all the strawmen burnt here, it is truly a massacre. -EnglishAlt